Democracy, not terror, is the engine of political Islam

good point zahid-e-khushk sahib about nobility. i suppose our pagan friend laddu sahib would also call it ethical and noble pagan values for five brothers to get married to one girl at the same time and for all 5 of them to make love to her simultaneously?

or let us take the roman empire. it was riddled with orgies, incest between the emperors and their sisters, homosexuality and bisexuality until it became christianised. it is undeniable that the monotheistic religions have much higher ethical and moral standards than the polytheists.

the general conservatism in india today is because of the 1000 years of islamic rule.

Historically how can this notion be validated that there were naked pagan idol worshippers? How authentic can a muslim writer of history of that era be? All history was burnt to meet the new ruling elite and their new culture.

Actually, the prophet himself predicted and validated the victory of the Romans over the pagan Persians, a point being missed by the Persians these days in their war against the west.

That prediction of the defaeat of the persians by the Romans was about a certain war and that's taken place centuries ago. It was certainly not about the eternal subjugation of the Persians by the Romans.

zahid #131 This "certain war" is considered most likely to be the war between the persia (under the last pre-Islamic dynasty, the sassanids) and the eastern roman empire, or byzantium (under emperor Heraclius).

The defeat is probably the capture of Antioch (a historic city on the boundary of modern day Turkey and Syria) by the persians. The ultimate victory of the believers (i.e. the eastern roman empire) referred to in the Quran did indeed come about a few years after Surah Rum was added, with the persian emperor Pervaiz Chosroe being overthrown and roman territories in the levant restored.

The Persian-Roman rivalry went back to almost 500 BC, and after the fall of the Italian (or Western) Roman Empire to the barbarians, carried over to the Eastern Roman Empire.

What is interesting about this surah is that it comes out unequivocally on the side of the christians led by Heraclius. Heraclius was of Armenian descent who centuries later were to become bitter enemies of the muslim Ottoman empire. Pre-Islamic persian empires considered pagan in the Quran contributed greatly to both the Roman Empire (particularly in civil engineering techniques as I understand), and also provides roots to the persian Islamic art and literature. The Roman Empire on the other hand had centuries of close ties with North Afria and the Middle East, with one Roman Emperor actually being called Philip the Arab due to his arab descent.

An interesting lesson the Surah provides is with, I think, is that distinctions between the "west" and the "east", between "muslim" and "non-muslim" prove to be extremely superficial and misleading when one considers the complex interrelationships of human interaction throughout history.

For an in-depth look, here is a very good site: http://www.roman-empire.net/articles/article-012.html

Its hilarious to see muslims go red in the face to prove that monotheism is the next best thing after sliced bread. If there is a God and he hates idolatory, how come there are billions of pagans in the world in the first place? How come they have survived and prospered for millenia? Why do you need to convince me about something that the all powerful God could accomplish in seconds?

At the end of the day, its all our imagination, a collective fantasy. People are scared of death, so they believe in god and religion hoping that something will continue after death. They do no want to accept that death is final, that our neurons will stop firing and it will be all over. People dont realize that after death will be exactly like how it was before birth. Before our birth, we had no consciousness, no knowledge of the zillion things that happened in the universe. Thats the way it will be after death as well as zillion things continue to happen in the future. We cannot accept this harsh and cruel reality and need support from a belief in God, which is manifested in the most extreme manner by muslims in their absolute certainty about an imaginary monotheistic god. They get comfort in that which I understand, but why peddle it as a scientific fact?

You enjoy your Id and let us enjoy our holi/diwali until we can and then we will all push daisies anyway.

Ahmed Sahib,

thanks for a nice description of that war and the link.

If I'm not wrong then I see here overall red flags denoting some 'objectional remarks' which might've been made by us? Is it truly depicts the situation or is merely a pagan mischief?

Ranjit Babu,

it's no less ridiculous and mind-boggling to see you deny the existence of God and to tell us that death brings the eventual end to life as if you've been dead before.

Regarding your question of why God allowed someone to be pagan please go through my previous posts and those of Naqshbandi Sahib here.

You're complaining about the misionary zeal of Islam. In fact Christianity is equally zealous in spreading the word of God. Both of them have a universal message and socio-ethical system and an innate urge and call to spread till they encompass and subdue other systems in particular the pagan ones.

Ranjit bhai, for the second time I bring to you unwelcome advice, knowing, I shall be forced, again, to regret this move just as when I cautioned you against launching a torrent of racist invectives against fellow humans. But still...

Ranjit, PLEASE, don't believe that Muslims are all, without exception, complete morons and nitwits, (if not crazed fanatics) who for some reason can't see things 'clear' to you.

You are obviously a very very intelligent man. But your intelligence ends completely and totally where Hinduism ends. And it is not just you. This is the case with all Hindu liberals, on chowk, and elsewhere. I am not making this up. It is true.

Please reconsider your beliefs about all Muslims. These beliefs are astonishingly disrespectful and inexplicably arrogant.

I, for the life of me, can't understand how ANY muslim can put up with a 'friendly' Hindu liberal whose entire mindset is based on utter contempt and hatred for the basics of Islam.

-----------------

Now, of course, I know, will come grave accusations of hidden and monstrous evil intentions on my part. There are none. Yet it's ok if you find them.

Kaal

once again,you are proving to be a hinud liberal... right here in your face, bedouins are telling you that they have an "innate urge" to subdue your pagan a**... and yet you continue to defend them and their insane "belief" system...

Like ranjit said - muslims, by and large, have proved to be crazed fanatics... their entire wordlview begins and ends with islam... they even admit it themselves... islam is the complete code for their lives - koran is the book to end all books...

Right here in your face - muslims are throwin racist invectives against pagans and yet you are chiding Ranjit who is right on the money... you, Mr Kaal, are a hinud liberal and hence a complete idiot... :)

ranjit you're free to believe in your faith and we are free to believe in ours. when we die we will see if it is the end or just the real beginning. after all, we all must die.

:-)

"... we all must die" -- only to be resurrected later by God to answer for our earthly life contraray to the pagan belief and to throw the ungodly ones in particular the pagans into the hell.

139/zhahid_e_bedouin
[...throw the pagans into the hell...]

Ha ha... These bedouin-wannabe pakis are unbelievable... this is the "universal message" islam taught these islamic losers - that God will throw pagans in hell... ha ha...

And these are the kind of people Kaal is hell-bent on defending... Man, Kaal, you are just f888ing nuts.... :)

Re: # 138 Naqsh
[...when we die we will see if it is the end or just the real beginning...]

Yep - it will be the real beginning for you... Allah himself will reward you with virgin houris and gilmans... But Ranjit, the pagan, will be thrown in boiling hell... :)

So why wait?... blast your suicide belt in nearest pizza-hit, kill a bunch of pagans/kafirs and go directly to allah right now... get started with the "real beginning" already, right?...

Pakis and their delusions, it never ends... :)

mohar11, earlier rajit babu wrote that Bangladeshis are evil people because they are Bangladeshis/Bengalis.

Here he seems to be suggesting that Muslims, in general, lack the juice of basic human intelligence by a few gallons, each. The way he describes them it seems odd that any Muslim is able to leave his bed every morning.

In my personal experience neither of the above is true.

Kaal

I don't think that's what Ranjit was saying - anycase, I will defer to him to explain his position...

But right here in your face - islamic hordes are saying that you being pagan must be "subdued"... you being a pagan will be thrown in hell... they are sayig that is the real islam, that is the "uinversal message"...

And yet you, just like is typical of hinud liberals, say nothing... you are accepting and identifying with their bare-knuckle hate speech, which actually directed against you and your kind... and on top of that - you are chiding Ranjit just for pointing out the hate-filled ideology professed by these losers.... you are nuts, I am telling you... :)

Sure you have better personal experience - we all have... I am sure jews had very good persoanl experience with their german friends - that didn't matter, did it?...

Most muslims/christian are like little children, believing that santa brings them gifts. Which would be fine if they want to live in their delusions. Only problem is some muslims are ready to kill people who do not believe in their delusions.

Some muslims argue that islam was progressive for its times. However how progressive was it when the lady whom Mohammed married was a business person, while how many women can aspire to do that in the citadels of islam like Saudi Arabia.