A Sad Day for Pakistan

Yawn.

#252 by Yusser

Arab Society- the cradle from where Islam emerged- had a strong matrilineal tradition... Islam while stamping patriarchy did not do away with the women altogether. Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH)'s family continued through Hazrat Fatima (AS). Hassan and Hussain are known for their maternal grandfather... the naming convention which takes father's last name is of recent import. According to Islamic theology on the day judgement we will be called by our mother's names."

The real question is why are Indians so embarrassed of their mothers... I believe the DNA codification says we are much of our mothers as we are of our fathers. Thus choosing a last name is also a similar prerogative which lies with the person who is choosing his last name. Whether one takes up one's father's last name or mother's should be upto the individual. In my case I have taken both my parents' names...because I am proud of both of them. It is also the reason why I insist on not just Yasser Hamdani... but Yasser Latif Hamdani. Hats off to my parents who have always allowed me these choices.

So Yasser mian has now made the ultimate U-turn (it is been quite a while, but I came to know about it just now because of the above post). In addition to abandoning religions and his erstwhile heroes, he has now made the mother of all U-turns, abandoning his native traditions for an Arab one. With such a stellar record of U-turns, wouldn't it be more apt to call him Yusser instead of just Yasser?

While projecting the adoption of his mother's last name as being with the noble intentiion of recognizing the contribution of his mother to his birth, the fact is that Yasser mian is desperate to show that he is very different from the his compatriots (Arbi/Persian background and all), the dirty Pakis.

Dear Majumdar,

Arab Society- the cradle from where Islam emerged- had a strong matrilineal tradition... Islam while stamping patriarchy did not do away with the women altogether. Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH)'s family continued through Hazrat Fatima (AS). Hassan and Hussain are known for their maternal grandfather... the naming convention which takes father's last name is of recent import. According to Islamic theology on the day judgement we will be called by our mother's names.

When a third rate achoot freak from Hyderabad who can't argue on facts gets up and tells me : "Unlike you, I wouldn't adopt my mother's surname even if she were Jhansi ki Rani, because that does not make me into something I'm not. " ... to me it is indicative of the sickness that epitomises Indian culture.

The real question is why are Indians so embarrassed of their mothers... I believe the DNA codification says we are much of our mothers as we are of our fathers. Thus choosing a last name is also a similar prerogative which lies with the person who is choosing his last name. Whether one takes up one's father's last name or mother's should be upto the individual. In my case I have taken both my parents' names...because I am proud of both of them. It is also the reason why I insist on not just Yasser Hamdani... but Yasser Latif Hamdani. Hats off to my parents who have always allowed me these choices.

-YLH

Majumdar,

Kharish is pathetic. I don't have time for him. As you can see beyond the absolute necessity of countering a lie, I feel no need to respond to someone as disgusting as him.

Thank you.

Majumdar bhai, Yasser mian promised me not too long ago that he wouldn't respond to anything I say. Another U-turn :-)

The way he continues to make U-turns, very soon I'll probably have to name him Yusser and not Yasser :-)

#247 by MantoLives

In Pakistan... it is not unusual to find people with friends right across the spectrum... hence Ahmadi kids befriending wahabi kids even is not a big deal.

Sure Yasser mian, you don't have to convince us. It could well be true, but you don't have to rush in to clarify everything. I just said "maybe". But then, the way you jump in does give rise to suspicions if that you were unfortunate enough to have been bullied by the neighborhood kids.

But I am guessing some people would have a lot of problems with Brahmin kids screaming achoot achoot.

Yasser mian, unlike you I won't disown my caste/creed/religion even if were the lowest of the low, because I'm not a mercenary who would do anything for material benefits. Birth is just an accident, I could just as easily have been an Achoot or a Brahmin or even an Ahmadi. If there is one thing a person should be proud of, it is his/her own accomplishment. Unlike you, I wouldn't adopt my mother's surname even if she were Jhansi ki Rani, because that does not make me into something I'm not.

Hmmm...., another derby in the making.

Regards

In Pakistan... it is not unusual to find people with friends right across the spectrum... hence Ahmadi kids befriending wahabi kids even is not a big deal.

But I am guessing some people would have a lot of problems with Brahmin kids screaming achoot achoot.

PS: The fact that you brought in your dad's Maybach in reference to Azim Premji's humble Ford Ikon as some kind of mine-is-bigger-than-yours boast is further proof of this deep-rooted inferiority complex. You sure need some serious psychiatric treatment and soon at that.

Yasser mian, it was never about Gandhi. It was about your desperate attention-seeking antics. Gandhi/Jinnah is merely incidental to my post. Maybe that bit about being abused by your neighborhood kids was true and struck a raw nerve? Nice try, but no cigar...LOL!!!!

kharish mian,

That post (taken as it was partly from Abu-Safwaan's post) was no answer to my questions.

Let us humor you. Lets say I am all that you desperately want to believe I am... then why are you still so hot and bothered by what I think of the racist casteist hindu fascist misogynist supremacist subcontinental nazi "Mahatma" Gandhi?

My reference is to these two statements:

"Wolpert is human, makes mistakes and can be forgiven. Gandhi was not LOL"

and

"Yasser mian calls it evolution and we all agree even the most bone-headed men like him do evolve, but the problem is that he isn't willing to concede the same for others."

Why does it matter so much to you what I think about the half naked fraud- not that I wasn't willing to change my opinion subject to evidence which you failed to produce.

YLH,

Pakistan was created for islam. The most significant islamic conflict is palestine-israel. Three major islamic countries are invited, and pakistan is not one among them. The palestenians want india to the there, can you believe, a muslim country wants a hindu india, and not pakistan created for islam.

Do you thnk this has something to do with TNT, the MFJs lasting contribution to islam, that muslims cannot live with people of otehr religion.

"Abbas urges US to invite India to peace conference

Jerusalem, Oct. 5 (PTI): Palestinian Authority (PA) President Mahmoud Abbas has urged US to invite India, among other countries, to the November Middle East peace conference.

Inviting India to the conference, which is to be held at Annapolis in US, would provide it "broader international legitimacy", he said."

YLH 240

AS you praise MFJ as the gretaes man, spare a thought for the country he created based on his doctrine of TNT. Read this opinion piece from dawn of today, and tell the chowk, what this man is talking about, teh school books taht glorify Ghazni, the k for kafir education envisaged by MFJ, the core of his TNT theory that founded pakistan.

The man has to be remebered for his contribution to history, and see for yourself the pakistan.

from dawn of today, opinion section

"The question is: why this tolerance of extremism and hate of the other in the most hideous form? The answer perhaps lies partly in political exigencies of the current regime, combined with the glorification of the bigots in our history books. Consider that 11-century bandit Mahmud of Ghazni, who was credited with bringing down idols as he invaded India, raided only those Hindu temples which were laden with gold and other ornamental wealth. Once his empire took hold in the subcontinent, and the rich temples had been laid bare of their gold and silver, idol worship carried on unhindered."

Yasser mian, you may continue to accuse others of having complexes, but the way you indulge in monkey-like antics to seek attention clearly shows the massive inferiority complex you suffer from. The way you play to the gallery, the way you proclaim your patriotism, the way you espouse Jinnah, the way you boast about your riches (what kind of fool would go so far as to claim that his dad drives a Maybach to prove his social standing? LOL!!!) all abundantly prove your constant need for approval. Maybe the fact that you were born an Ahmadi and probably were mistreated by your neighborhood Sunni Muslim kids in your childhood could be contributory factors, but you should seek help before you do irreparable damage to yourself and your family.

PS: You can rest assure that I was very glad you visited the thread. Apparently you've been beating yourself up silly for attention ever since.

Harish mian,

What you've written is as usual those snakes in your head speaking. Inferiority complex is when the raison d etre for your life is to cheer some foul-mouthed interactors' abuse against another person for merely expressing a point of view contrary to yours... You've been banned countless times for abusing me and my famly...

One wonders why you want me to forgive Gandhi ... when you've declared that he is a great person acknowledged blah blah? The long and short of it is... that you've never been able to argue on facts, so you cheer people atif2, thinkingstorm and countless others... you need constant reaffirmation because otherwise that inferiority complex overburdens you.

-YLH

#237 by MantoLives

Have I backed down on Jinnah, ML, Pakistan etc?

Yasser mian, given your penchant for making U-turns, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if you did that one day.

As for evolution... I am more than happy to grant it for the racist casteist hindu fascist bigot Gandhi provided you give me evidence of his "evolution".

C'mon now Yasser mian, no one is pushing you to "grant" something to Gandhi. Gandhi is one of the greatest persons the world ever produced in the last century and your granting or not granting does not make an iota of difference to him.

However, he is human and he can make mistakes (like his claim that Kanji was parsi... or in Zulfi Bhutto of Pakistan where he mixes two speeches of Jinnah's).

You're tying yourself up in knots. Wolpert is human, makes mistakes and can be forgiven. Gandhi was not? LOL!!!!

Still you haven't quoted a single thing from Wolpert that can be considered "indictment" of ML or Jinnah etc. There to one suspects lack of quality education on your part.

Yasser mian, I think you've forgotten or more likely, you're upto your usual lies. We were having this cute little discussion about who started the DAD violence, which is when the indictment came up. If you go back, that should clear up all the cobwebs from your mind, that is, if there is one.

The suit thing apparently scalded you so much that you commented countless times without any "Egging" on from me... but you had to post here as well.

Hahahaha!! Yasser mian you're so funny you should try your hand at doing stand up. I was never in the discussion at all. Instead it was your own compatriots who were making fun of you. Even at that point, you were paranoid at me visiting the thread. That should reveal who was scalded, shouldn't it? LOL!!!

Perhaps you should consider the possibility that you suffer a deep seated inferiority complex ... when it comes to me.

Yasser mian, inferiority complex is when you need to post others' pics to prove how good looking you are, and you did do that, didn't you? Inferiority complex is when you need to boast on an anonymous forum that your dad drives a Maybach, that you were educated at Rutgers, that you are one of the "top lawyers"..LOL...in Pakistan.

Majumdar,

Well said.


Harish mian,

You are not worth my time. However, since you are obsessed and prone to repeating the same lies I must point out simple facts... I am not sure how I change my opinions to suit the audience. Is the audience all anti-Bhutto now? Am I supposed to hold all opinions I did at age 18 or 19? Have I backed down on Jinnah, ML, Pakistan etc? Even Imran Khan who I have supported for more tha 10 years... criticising him on one point or the other does not mean not agreeing with -when in each such post I have clearly held the view that Imran Khan is perhaps the most honest politician around. The problem with you is that you are too dishonest of an interactor to have an iota of shame or dignity. Either that you think agreeing and disagreeing with some has to be total and zero sum.

As for evolution... I am more than happy to grant it for the racist casteist hindu fascist bigot Gandhi provided you give me evidence of his "evolution". It is your failure that is responsible.

As for Wolpert... he is a very good writer who wrote in my opinion the best biography on Jinnah (Jinnah of Pakistan) and I have always quoted him and will continue to do so. However, he is human and he can make mistakes (like his claim that Kanji was parsi... or in Zulfi Bhutto of Pakistan where he mixes two speeches of Jinnah's).

Still you haven't quoted a single thing from Wolpert that can be considered "indictment" of ML or Jinnah etc. There to one suspects lack of quality education on your part.

The suit thing apparently scalded you so much that you commented countless times without any "Egging" on from me... but you had to post here as well. Perhaps you should consider the possibility that you suffer a deep seated inferiority complex ... when it comes to me. Look I don't have anything to do with you. I am merely here expressing my point of view. If you don't agree with the point of view, do so civilly. There is no point becoming an obsessed maniac, posting 20 posts about me every day.

There is one major reason which in my opinion has made this judiciary criminally negligent of their duty. In the past they never had the people and lawyers behind them. They had to make decisions with no public support and under Marshal Law. Even Zulfiqar Bhutto, certainly the most popular leader was hanged by judiciary and yet there was no public outcry at that time. Army was in full command of the situation. Judges did what was expected of them. Now the situation is different. Entire legal community was behind them, people were behind them and yet they have again repeated what they have always done.This decision is perhaps rhe worst decision in the long history of bad decisions

Folks

Leave Jinnah alone. He made a mess of everything ....

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Jinnahs_daughter_cant_claim_property_ Centre/articleshow/2430299.cms

Jayp,

(You must be a very young indian)

34.

(I know personally of several people who gave up their wealth, their jobs etc in support of the freedom struggle.)

Most of then wud be dead now. It is 60 years since independence and assuming they were at least 25 at 1947, they wud be 85. No wonder at least I have not seen them. I presume u wud be much older so wud have seen them.

(The millions who marched with gandhi and beaten up were the real heros.)

Maybe they were. But had it been not for the millions of Germans who got killed fighting for the "white Aryan racist, fasicist, bigoted freak" we wud still be singing Rule Britannia.

(India has a system of pension for the freedom fighters, there are hundreds of thousands of them)

Most of these people are frauds.

(, and they have also given preferences in jobs for the children of freedom fighters.)

OK. So they got the benfitts, rite, so no need for them to crib about it.

(I do read here people of your genration rediculing the Nehruviabn socialism)

Lots of countries have created a strong industrial base and the equivalent of IITs without having to go thru Nehruvian Stalinism. Besides even if it was necessary at some point of tiem it far outlived its utiltity. Leftism shud have been dumped by the late 1960s if not eralier.

Btw it is not only people of my generation who ridicule Nehruvianism there were lots of people who criticised socialism rite from the start including people like Masani, Rajaji and the rest.

Regards

Majumdar 312,

You must be a very young indian, I know personally of several people who gave up their wealth, their jobs etc in support of the freedom struggle. The millions who marched with gandhi and beaten up were the real heros.

India has a system of pension for the freedom fighters, there are hundreds of thousands of them, and they have also given preferences in jobs for the children of freedom fighters. To say that there are not many who fought with Gandhi and sacrificed for teh freedom, is a tragedy of the indian schooling system.

It is possible that the new IT generation who have got high salaries at young age forget that the foundations were laid by people like me, who strived against all adversities to create a value system that rates education highly, and have acheived many things simply because of our efforts and tenacity.

I do read here people of your genration rediculing the Nehruviabn socialism, you have to remember that the IIts and HMTs and Sindhris would not have come up if india had gone for the capitalism. It produced transient growths like in pakista, philippines etc without an economic foundation.

One can hear of pakis crying about their great past in the 50s, only to evaporate later because it did not have a basic structure of an industrial base. It is Nhrue that did it, what he called the "temples of modern india".

people must be egging him on because he is better than them...LOL!

Harish,

Prolly, yes ;-)

#230 by VRV

Yasser does change opinions and as u saw on UP that he thinks that his wearing a suit shames Indians to death & there are some empty-brain aunties/uncles prodding this vainglorious behaviour. Phew!

Yasser is the "tamashe ka bandar" and a lot of folks egg him on just to watch him make a spectacle of himself (like on this suit thing), but Yasser thinks people must be egging him on because he is better than them...LOL!

Harish,

U are right abt the analysis. Yasser does change opinions and as u saw on UP that he thinks that his wearing a suit shames Indians to death & there are some empty-brain aunties/uncles prodding this vainglorious behaviour. Phew!

What a vanity!

228 by VRV

Are u any different from Masadi?

Of course Yasser mian is very different from Masadi. Masadi is a honest guy who believes in what he says. OTOH, Yasser mian changes his views to suit his mood/audience or both: until not so long ago, ZAB was the greatest Paki ever born (second only to Jinnah) but now, he is the scum of the earth. Not too long ago, Imran was a characterless guy, now he is the next great hope of Pakistan (next of course after Yasser mian himself). A couple of years ago, Stanley Wolpert was God: every word he uttered was the gospel truth, now he thinks the man sometimes was wrong, especially if it seemed to be indicting ML or Jinnah in any way. Of course, Yasser mian calls it evolution and we all agree even the most bone-headed men like him do evolve, but the problem is that he isn't willing to concede the same for others.

Manto,

Are u any different from Masadi? Whoever disagrees with u is a idiot. Isnt it?

Luckily, these Chowk fellows ignore ur abuses and that of all Qadianis.

There's a catch.

VRV,

Yaar there is no fire and no one is asking you to be the fire engine...

It is only fouled mouthed Masadi ... and more foul mouthed Masadi.

mantolives, stop being your unusual self - and appreciate Masadi for Masadi is.

A fine upstanding human being with a great mind - razor sharp, independent, deviously clever, but with enuf chutipa to make you want to scream.

Please donot be jealous of him. You are you and Masadi is masadi.
Appreciate his presence

Manto,

Thanks but no thanks.

I am really not sure who started this fire. So, pl spare me.

masadi,

... you finally found some friends ! ..... now you can stop talking to the pink bunny rabbit

VRV,

You can't be serious. I know you have your blind spots... but you can't be serious when you try and turn a blind eye to this abusive freak.

Ok this joke at Masadi has gone on long enough. It is almost painful now. Shame on those who continue to egg on Masadi by "praising" him instead of helping him with his psychiatric condition.

Tahmed writes "You and GT are not doing masadi any favor by condoning his bad habit of abusing anyone who disagrees with him"

There is one person that I detest more than anyone else on Chowk and it is tahmed, why do I detest him, because every chance he gets he supports colonization that destroyed our people, he submits to Western/white overlordship over our people and the people of the third world, on many occassions will he berate the people here if they do not imitate the white man. He will never condemn the evil that is being perpetuated in the world due to America's wars, and finally his attack on me is not because of any "abuse" it is because I have busted the temple of his gods.

Now any idiot can see that VRV and GT and the others did not write supportive posts in support of my "abuse", yet this hypocrite accuses them of that because he cannot stand anyone saying one good word about me. Regarding the abuse, it should be read in its context. There are people who have been from ever since I started posting here abusing Islam and the prophet and everything related in the most coarse terms (hamid being probably the leader), there are others who have been supporting the wide scale death and destruction that the US caused in Iraq (tahmed being the case in point), and others who take the US elite to be some kind of angels on a mission of mercy (Feroz being the case in point)- what about their posts are they not worse than calling someone an a-hole or pervert? What kind of morality is reflected by those posts when in the case of the first you are abusing over a billion people, when you could have reasoned with them using different words and in the latter two cases you are condoning the death of millions?

I have used abuse in frustration to bring down from their high pedestals the friends of the colonials and the US elite. Their arrogance comes from ignorance and I merely want to show them the true picture of their souls and my friend that ain't a pretty picture...

However from now on, I will keep to the issues on hand and not get embroiled in petty bickering which detracts from the issues, in other words I will be taking the good advice of HP. Ahmadmadani sahib thanks, you overestimate me, I am just an ordinary person talking the obvious that others have either hidden through deception or deliberately ignore, while the vast majority are merely distracted from it by the powers that be.

Long live the HP, masadi, Ahmadmadani, nanjil, GT, friendship for social justice..... the others, feel free to add your names to the list, the time for change is now

Nanjil,

He's under ban wheras the guys who said equally worst things are scot-free.

That's Chowk 4 real.

madani sahb:
beautifully said. masadi is one of the finest , straightforward and bold intellectual in the true sense I have seen in a long time. he certainly is an original thinker. I am sure he will get polished as he gets older. But i fervently hope that polish won't dilute the spirit.

#217 Posted by okhla99 on October 3, 2007 7:33:38 am

Bhonk ne wala kutta, do I hate Pakistan?? ROTFL

VRV/Folio, Jayp, Arjun and the rest of the irrational fools who hate Pakistan,

You can bark till kingdom come but all your barking shall prove only one thing,

that you are all ..........

Hamidm2,

The irony is that Masadi will actually come and thank Madani for his comments and then put up "Long live HP-Masadi-Madani friendship for Social justice" (though poor HP is quite an unwilling partner in this grand and noble coalition)...

Majumdar,

Well said... vis a vis Masadi. He has been abusing me constantly for simply airing my views. He has been abusing Ferozk, Tahmed32, okhla99, hamidm2 and countless other interactors.

Now the only reason some of the Indians here are kissing up to Masadi is because of his irrational and totally incoherent wild accusations against Mahomed Ali Jinnah which have been debunked by others on these boards. Anyone who picks up a book on history will see how ignorant Masadi really is... but ofcourse third rate jingoistic bigots like Jayp would think he is a genius. After all it takes one to know one...

majumdar:

I understand that you are using the word 'independence' in the sense of 14/15 August. In that sense you are right. However, if you use the word 'independence' in a broader sense you will agree that we are still slaves of those who rule us (whether or not they have been elected). In this sense, we have a long way to go.

But we, Pakistan and India, are indeed progressing towards that goal. It is very important to criticize ourselves and we should. At the same time we should not gloss over our achievements. Pakistan and India are way ahead of many African countries, Venezuela and Cuba in terms of general independence.

Yesterday 85 MPs resigned in Pakistan. Nobody in chowk applauded them. Their term was ending anyway, they are corrupt, they have their selfish motives etc. etc. would be the reasons given. But what would we have said had they not resigned? Small acts like these create precedents and have bigger effects in the longer run. Independence is carved through these small blows on the mai-baap frame of reference. Instant gratification should not be sought simply because it is not feasible.

In the sense mentioned above we indeed had a lot of freedom fighters. People like Gandhi, Jinnah etc. brought sparks of awareness of political rights and aspirations in (prhaps small) pockets of the unwashed in our sub-continent. In that sense they contributed to the process of awareness. It is upto each generation to push this process forward. We may not like or support each and every such process. Nevertheless, we should understand that they will eventually lead to FREEDOM.

Pakistanis have a great opportunity to LEAD the region today. They can learn from the various movements during Indira's Emergency. I hope tomorrow Indians can learn from what Pakistanis do today.

Jayp,

(The targedy that there are no freedom fighters in pakistan unlike india who gave everything up for freedom)

There were not too many freedom fighters on either side, Bhagat Singh, Azad and a few others excepted. And these people did not achieve much.

India (and Pak) independence were won by the great sacrifices made by the original white Aryan racist, fascist, bigoted freak and his German troops.

Regards

Re: # 205

madani sahib,

..... i think you will regret the day you encouraged mad man masadi - he is an idiotlogue who vents his impotent rage on chowk ........ i have been asking chowk staff to ban this fool before some innocent child is exposed to his nonsense ...... please join me in protecting our children

best regards...

Masadi is great, at least he is one pakistani who has seen through MAJ, who has realised that he created pakistan with a typewriter for the sake of the feudals.

The man had no coherent vision, that is why he could put them down in a book, it is always swaying in the wind, to suit the crowd that he was addressing. For so long the elites of pakistan have tried in vain to bulwark the tide of islam by his one speech to the parliment, again a classic case of suiting teh crowd, and that is why it has failed so miserably.

The targedy that there are no freedom fighters in pakistan unlike india who gave everything up for freedom, is the final proof of the fact that MAJ simply succeded because it suited the colonial doctrine of divide and rule, and the ultimate tragedy that what jinnah acheived by the largest migration of humanity in history created the terror central of today.

Dada,

I had a run-in with Masadi b4. He was like that but he is not like that anymore, as I see it.

Anyway I shud not bother too much abt them. It's their business.

Thanks.

VRV bhai,

(32 was calling Masadi an idiot when masadi was not calling 32 the same.)

Masadi habitually calls everyone who does not agree with him (including Tahmed sahib) as idiots, "flunkies of the West" and such other terms of endearment. You can rest assured that Tahmed sahib wudn't have fired the first shot.

Regards

A day of truth for pakistan.

Seeing all the fighting between masadi and others, the name calling of me by ylh and tahmed, no one could have said it better than this lone pakistani

from opinion of jang today


"As a general rule, Pakistanis are not happy with opinions that differ from their own. And we are unable to convey our dissatisfaction in a parliamentary, professional manner. Our Achilles' heel is to confuse the other person's difference of opinion as a personal attack on us. And, God help us, we launch into the greatest ad hominem attack there can be. Suddenly, the discussion is gone, but parents and ancestors have been exhumed and reburied. Maternal raising of children is criticised and, Lord help me, one's opponent in the argument is now either illegitimate or spreading his seed far and wide! Amazingly, one would think that the fair sex would not indulge in this Internet street-like behaviour. But alas, anger really produces a brief psychosis, and words burn my computer screen as they do the heart.

People form informal alliances based on these discussions, for it is hard to forget that insult on your laptop and the comfort that came from another friend right after. We forget the argument and begin to concentrate on personalities."
////////////////////////////////////
How many times have I posted that portrayal of pakistan as a jihadic country is an idea, increasingly accepted by the world and all that I am concentrating on is lining up the facts, interpreting the events to galvanise that idea.

There is nothing personal in that, and as I can see it, what I have said and argued years ago have come true.

Nex is the iraquisation of pakistan, and as benazir would have it, it will start with waziristan.

If u want to know Okhla, I NEVER, I repeat NEVER abused anybody unprovoked. I was never the FIRST abuser. I always reponded to, as I did 4 u now, for the abuses I received.

Secondly, there's something called evolution (prolly u dont have such thing in ur life).

Okhla,

Since u called me names I can return the compliment, u scumbag.

Why u forgot to paste the post of Manto that provoked my reply? How many hateful posts of Manto wud u need here? I can produce dozens of pure hate, u slecetive sumbag.

Getting personal is so easy and I too can get personal here to make it even. So debate the issues, kameena Okhla.

P.S: If u dim-brain missed it, 32 was calling Masadi an idiot when masadi was not calling 32 the same. That's my point.

Mr.Masadi is great contributer for intelluctual discussion and putting some different view of looking at events and policies. This evaluation of many historic figures. He does not indulge in "little" details but goes against current as he wants to understand the basic source and he does not care about pigmies shouting at him from banks who are throwing abuses, redicule and lies to damage him or this interpretations. Masadi has correctly evaluated the subtle current under actions of desi elites. Like today BB is able to get deal it financial deal at cost ppp followers. She is typical elite along with her friend general who take pride in being tamed dog of usa and western elites.He is not wrong even visually handicapped person like can see it is bush administartion decides who will rule pakistan in way they want, they pick up helping hands to subdue people by bombing by secreat pilotless airmachines and then general claims his airforce bombed. It is lie and lie is truth now as in novel 1984. As Masadi said many times before american decide and these dogs just compete amoung each other who is more loyal, these dogs are more loyals than Royals. Now masadisahib some times use crude language and I am not comfortable with that language and even suggested ore moderation. You can see Ms. Saima Shah wrote article "60 years of American doghood" then it is Koshar. Nobody objects to her language as her english is urban and polished full same stuff but not provoking sensetivity of our nation readers. Mr.Masadi is molded in differet form not of proper manner may be little wild junglee. He calls spade for spade.He is narrow and straight forward, in that case yes he is not practical, but practical people can not tell truth as it is as somebody get hurts. Like he wrote Pakistan experience of 60 years as whoring of sixty years for american cow boys , or he understood partition in different way. He is direct and states pakistani state was formed basically to save landed feudal system in west pakistan at cost of death of few million innocent people.The landed feudal land , agricultural and industrial houses were encouraged to squeeze people to please usa and local elites.All leaders from start to begin were following same interest, to protect landed gentry and industry and supress middle class and poor who will not even utter a word and midlle class brown elits were dream of britishers muslim outside western elite inside. Western elits along with desi were so brutalised and brainwashed - when usa spyairmachines were flying no body was allowed. ZAB was told he can come for tea but he can not have access to base, when slaughter in Bengal started no body said anything.By that time slavery got in our dna we got two more overlords china and arabia. May be Masdi is Jungli but we needed man like masadi to tell as it is to publis. If there were 100 masadi, jungali masadis shouting crudely things may have changed. Masadi is frustrated and he gets angry when he see pakistani nation used as whore by american and western elites. He gets angry when there white and arabi masters have brought havoc on nation. Today following master to fight their wars army is killing people to please western elites.And then awam is resiting with bare army and killing armymen. Just like bengal slaughter slaughter in tribal areas are started and not single elite feeling thing bad.80,000 regular army units along with same number of paramilitary is on war with tribals. They are not antipakistan but you start killing sons, daughters, mothers and fathers why they should not resist ? Same thing bengalis were radical pakistanis but when army began to rape women, professors and studebnts what they are supposed to do pray ? Islam is not like passive Buddha religion.Ideas of socialasm, equality, trade union, farmers struggles, haris were brutally suppressed. Even socialisn of PPP was just populist schemes and nothing and always tangential to land reforms or breaking of mental retardness. When it became hard to hide insincere attitude in politics ( as mr. Masadi has clearly shown , slogans for euality or elalterism we all just traps to hide real game the concentrated economics to that extent all means were used to hide ugly cancerous growth). Whenever even intantile lefist tendencies were suspected then were crushed and killed. The slavery was ingrained in people. It started wrong way in first cabinet not one cabinet member had seen prison in english rule as they were elites of british , some were in suits , some in rural dress one common no "anti elites". Now if we had few masadis shouting abuses it would have done much good than 60 years of Doghood.
Masadi is intelluctual many times than most but he is not lost in "elite" decencies. I WAS FIRST TO RECOGNIZE MASADI and seconded thought. I am proud of that, he is social reformer, kind of like mr . gandhi like naked fakir( churchill's words) and it hurt his sensitvities when Mr. G went naked to see emperor of Hindustan, same way masadi is naked fakir hurting civil sense of suitboot gentlemen. Masadi is powerful as he is telling truth of Wester nation control of Pakistan. He does not have finer manners but does it matter. He is tired of slavery so some time he may maginify, exhgarate but still it is truth.
First elite neglected him, then rediculed him when truth start shinging they want to block sun of Masadi now they want to destroy him for they can not open eyes as its too harsh words of Masadi.
Masadisahib you are being sensored, rediculed, hated etc but you are on mission , you knowing decided to carry fire in hands to bring light, its hard on you, I do not have strength, physical or mental like you but i wish good luck and pray for your work, you are doing thankless job , you are not hired barristor to defend undefendable that so pleasure now when all activities of elites are just business to make cheap money by doing haram works bombing defenceless people in caves , marassas, mountains and force them to surrender.I some times felt you need to moderate but moderation does not work elits have enslaved last 60 years, the journey was from nowhere to nowhere, just useless, Masadisahib go your way its lonely way its hard but you are doing social work of higest order. Please accept my best respects.

VRV/FOLIO
We all have seen how "civilized" were you on Chowk earlier. Blatant abuse, straight from the Burger King delivery boys parking lot. Loads of it. I can reproduce any number of hateful posts.

And now you have the gumption to lecture Tahmed..... you scum, you....

Read your own words below ...


QUOTE..

Manto Sri,

Like it or not, Jinnah is donkey personified. Like a typical donkey he saw only his life time and his perks in office but never foresaw the plight of `Indian Muslims` he claimed to speak for and represent. This donkey didnt foresee the future of this region.

Gandhi is peace and harmony personified. (Now u publish the South African phase of Gandhi`s life).

Jinnah Donkey sowed the seeds of hate in the minds of Indians. He gave birth to Hindu extremism which was not known in India since Parusu Rama & Pushmitra Sunga. Narendra Modi and Praveen Togadiya are the step-grandchildren of Jinnah`s politics & the snakeheads of Jamia Hafsa/Fareedia are all the love-children of Jinnah.

If extermism is the real and apparant face of Pakistan, it`s Jinnah was gave them a country but no platform to build the nation but bottomless hate for India and Hindus. There`s a proverb: Those who live by hate die by it. Let ur country die with this hate for India and Indians.

" QUOTE UNQUOTE.



VRV / Folio These are your own words.

True hypocrite. You stand totally Exposed. Full frontal.

Now cut the crap. We all know the real you.

#202 vrv: where did you get the impression that i debate anything with masadi? i stopped doing that after the first few attempts.

I am nobody to decide ur lingo for debates here. Resent is the only form of latent control on such abuses. It's entirely ur own business how u deal with others, inlcluding our own Masadi.


Btw, Hamid is above CHowk guidelines :-)
He never misses an opportunity to revile anybody (including me) and he does it with great fun.

vrv: you wrote "Unlike some fundoos here, he never abused u by ur sect."

sorry, you lost me here. i dont recall anyone abusing me by "my sect". any abuse received from fundos is my own personal achievement and i resent any attempt at denying me this credit!! :-)

coming back to masadi, perhaps the "hamidm compromise" should resolve the issue: i.e. use of the term "idiotlogue"? Is that acceptable.

PS: Thinking Storm - see how hard i am trying to get along here? ;-)

.... okay, masadi is not an idiot - he is an idiotlogue ....... is that any better ?

p.s. an idiotlogue is a person who subscrbes to an idiocy - most fundamentalist christians, jihadi muslims and arjun belong to this category .........

ooh ooh...my 2 cents please, if I may?

Masadi is not a basket case as so many would like to paint him. His argument is usually brilliant. His fault lies in taking things too seriously. He does not realize that you cannot convert a beleiver, or one who is oblivious.

He needs to laugh a little.

But the rest of his commentary is really wonderful. One needs to step back and see what he is saying. See it. The man speaketh mostly truths.


with much respect,
thinking storm

ta32,

I am not talking abt our interactions but ur abusive refs to masadi. Hope that helps.

Btw, I dont expect hamid2 to write in civi-style, since hamid is of diff breed (babar+gopinaths' aulaad).

Wow. I just realized that I may be the only person on chowk who likes all the lovely chowkies. Including the ugly lovelys.

Well Manto being the sole exception to the above...but other than that...

now VRV and tahmed chacha are arguing...masadi and tahmad are arguing...what happened to "can't we all just get along?" NO BJ, that wasn't Gandhi. It was Rodney King.

with much respect,
thinking storm

vrv #195 "I never saw him admitting good points of others or conceding his shortcomings. Its a typical desi psychology."

I beg to differ. There are plenty of people on chowk who are perfectly capable of conceding their shortcomings and appreciating positive aspects in others. And I have met some perfectly modest, positive desis. Nor can you generalize in this manner about one-sixth of humanity!!

You write " I cant force u to have a civilised debate "

I apoligize if you have found anything rude or disrespectful in what I wrote in #192 #193. Kindly do me the favor of cutting and pasting where I have been uncivilized in those posts written to you.

Sir, Unlike some fundoos here, he never abused u by ur sect. Give him creidt where it's due.

tahmed32,

It's all abt orientation. As a teacher by profession & socoilogist at that Masadi tend to be verbose. As a man who's a bachelor (whites are singles as there's nothing like bachelorhood for them anymore, whereas we have true bachelors among us) his emotional energy is reflecetd in his writings. If he sounds eccentric in parts it's not his fault. U may be aware that all creative ppl/innovators are eccentrics.

I never saw him admitting good points of others or conceding his shortcomings. Its a typical desi psychology. We all are into it. I too have some serious disagreements with Masadi abt the elite theory but I dont like to go to town calling him an idiot all the time.

Anyway I cant force u to have a civilised debate here; it's ur prerogative to be or not to be civlised(No Hamletian Dilemma here; u are a senior man).

#192 correction: I see on unplugged GT has in fact been good enough to answer my question of what he has learnt from Masadi - it has to do with Islamic reformation. That is fine, and you may wish to add something that you have learnt too, particlarly in Masadi's major (world politics and economics).

This doesnt change anything else I have said below.

#191 vrv: when someone becomes abusive or rude without provocation, then the target of his abuse has a right to either ignore him or to respond in kind. And if i call him an idiot, I have provided an example (see #182) of why I said that. And perhaps masadi has changed as you say - but he is not there yet as you can plainly see from his post addressed to me, e.g. If I am missing something, I ask you the favor of a response to the unanswered question I have for GT in #190 below.

You and GT are not doing masadi any favor by condoning his bad habit of abusing anyone who disagrees with him, btw. Such a attitude may be a minor annoyance on chowk for others, but is a recipe for failed careers, miserable marriages, and/or no friendships worth mentioning for the abuser in real life.

tahmed32 & hamid2,

If u disagee with masadi, u can say that i/o calling him an idiot, which is againt the rules of Chowk (I guess u are immune to them).

It's clear from his posts that he's not returning the compliment to u.

Masadi mellowed a lot - he's not using abuses anymore but u are high on that diet. By hurling abuses on masadi u are looking exacly what u are calling him. Sorry.

GT #189: I agree that enough of masadi - I would rather pay attention to posters who have something amusing or original or informative to add, rather to an individual whose claim to fame is his abusive posts.

Dont worry about my feelings - if abuse from "internet tigers" meant anything to me, I would have left chowk a long time ago. So, please dont make me the problem for refusing to applaud abusive posters the way you are doing.

I provided you with an example in #182 below of why I consider this man to be an idiot. What words of wisdom or insights does he provide that has made even a smidgen of a difference in your understanding of world politics and economics, the two stratospheric subject that masadi deals with? I would be obliged if you would explain, so I dont miss out on it.

tahmed sahib:

It is not my intention to upset you or hurt your feelings. I know that you are a nice human being. I do not like the way you are abused by masadi. Also, I am not sure that our perspective on manto is different. Manto is a serious person who knows his Jinnah (as hamid would say).

However, it is my view, that masadi is not an idiot. You may, and have all the rights to, disagree with my view.

In any case, I feel a bit sorry discussing masadi, manto etc. in a board which should be discussing the present changes in the polity of Pakistan.

GT: You wont find me condoing abusive posts written by anyone on chowk the way you are doing in case of masadi. So you have no reason to point to some other poster (mantolives in this case) to support your encouragement of masadi.

I already recognized in my previous post that masadi is not alone in using the safety of the internet to abuse and berate people and misrepresent and demonize their views in ways he would never dare to do to their face in real life. There are indeed a few other "internet tigers" - cowards and losers in real life, obviously - like him on chowk.

Saying that abuse is "a part of chowk" does injustice to those posters who are perfectly civilized. I have not read Ferozk's exchange with masadi that you mention, but I have seen posts written by him over the past several years on chowk, and he has been consistently civilized until now.

So, please try to be fair, and distinguish between deliberate and wilful abusers like masadi and those who are provoked into responding to such posters in kind.

PS: As for mantolives, I dont follow his daily interactions and there are very few exchanges he has with me. But when he does (even on issues where we disagree, notably on his views on Gandhi), he has been civilized. Nor has he twisted my views the way masadi routinely does either. I am writing this only to give you another perspective on mantolives, one different from yours. Like I said above, in any case I am not condoning abuse the way you are.

Re: # 186

GT,

masadi should be banned from chowk for provoking an uncharacteristic remark from a gentleman like ferozk - the man brings out the worst in everyone .......

........ personally i think the man is a frustrated idiot who takes out his frustrations on imaginary foes like the us elite and barney the purple dinosoaur ...... i think his frustrations stem from sexual inadequacy and doubts abut sexual orientation - that is my theory and i could be wrong .......

....

#182 Posted by tahmed32,

Dear tahmed,

Let me turn the issue a bit and talk about another interactor I like. What about manto? Don't you find him 'abusive'? And to be frank, I wrote # 181, because I was completely taken aback by #179 of ferozk, I just could not believe that ferozk could write something like that.

tahmed sahib. Abuse is but a part of chowk (as HP taught me a long time back). I have had a lot of interesting conversations with masadi, with masadi being both abusive and declaring himself the 'winner'. But I have not been worse off as a result. There are always new things to learn.

Arjun,

As always, u are hilarious. LOL!

masadi and manto are peas in a pod..

They both have outlandish theories that they think are facts but the world doesn't buy..at least in masadi's case, his theory has more buyers...

Both masadi and manto are in the habit of declaring victory over their opponents when the victory is only in their own mind...notice how masadi claims to have proven something and manto claiming to have handed people their asses

if they were in vermont, they would be married...

#181 Posted by GT on October 2, 2007 8:27:08 am

Well said, Sir!

GT: I beg to differ with your post to masadi.

Who but an idiot would accuse some poster of planting flags (in #178) when in fact it could be anyone? And why are you reinforcing this man's habit of berating and insulting anyone who dares to question his stupid black-and-white view of the world? Contrary to what you imply, most posters on chowk are perfectly capable of exchanging posts in a civilized manner. Masadi and others like him who take advantage of the internet to abuse and berate posters in ways they would never dare to do in real life should not be considered as the standard-setters on chowk.

Dear masadi,

You are not a fool nor an idiot. Though I do not fully agree with your power elite theory (and I have my reasons) there is no doubt about the power exherted by US corporations in collusion with politicians (who are mostly propped up by these same corporate bosses). These forces have globally done much to prop up and destroy both (free?) markets and democracy. They have indeed lead to a lot of misery. You also make a very important point - the point that these forces use the media very effectively to blur or distort or hide the truth. These points need to be made and you consistently do so in chowk. For this I am grateful.

You also make a point with which I whole heartedly agree. That is: aggregate welfare, and not growth, is the actual measure of 'the wealth of nations' (Adam Smith made this point and it is indeed lost to third grade economists in the IMF, WB and various 'consultancies'). As you will recall, India has been shining for quite a while now. Yet, each and every government has been changed by the masses during this 'shining' period. So much for India and Pakistans' desire to shine.

As far as being abusive is concerned, yes you are abusive and personally I do not like it. But so are many in chowk. And then there are those who can be offensive without being abusive. So I shall simply bear your abusive .... just keep those posts comming.

masadi: you idiot. i didnt plant those flags below. I gave you a fitting response in #174 instead.

Re: # 165

Hey fool, you are guessing again, aren't you? You guessed wrong...again...you moron!

Howz life in utopia?

I was right...you really are miserable living in this world, aren't you?

Go back to the rock you crawled out from....you know...where all the fools go...

ciao

Sorry, let me correct that even though the High Priest of the Church of MAJ is hypocritical, this flagging was the work of tahmed, the backstabber. The pattern of red-flagging reveals that it was his work...As the old wise saying from these areas goes, when you shake your hand with him make sure you count your fingers afterwards, because untrustworthy as he is, he might have kept one while you weren't looking....stay clear of folk like him

By the way why have so many of my posts here been red flagged, even the most benign ones like the one to HP. Is it that the High Priest of the Church of MAJ wants me banned from here yet again. Is this not the clearest sign of this loser at work?

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf made moves on Tuesday to smooth his re-election by naming a successor as army chief as his government dropped graft charges against possible ally Benazir Bhutto......Chain-smoking Kayani had been director-general of the military's main security agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence agency, until last month. He is well-regarded by U.S. counterparts, Western diplomats say.

Pakistan is an important non-NATO ally for the United States. Its support is regarded as crucial for the success of Western military efforts in Afghanistan, and in the hunt for Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda in tribal areas on the Afghan border.

-----------------------------------

Demons....Yeah Right!....Come the Iran war, you'll see what role he plays...

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf made moves on Tuesday to smooth his re-election by naming a successor as army chief as his government dropped graft charges against possible ally Benazir Bhutto......Chain-smoking Kayani had been director-general of the military's main security agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence agency, until last month. He is well-regarded by U.S. counterparts, Western diplomats say.

Pakistan is an important non-NATO ally for the United States. Its support is regarded as crucial for the success of Western military efforts in Afghanistan, and in the hunt for Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda in tribal areas on the Afghan border.

-----------------------------------

Demons....Yeah Right!....Come the Iran war, you'll see what role he plays...

masadi #168 " If humanity is like you then I'll renounce my membership in its ranks."

No, please dont renounce your membership. Without your incisive, brilliant, intellect to help sort things out, humanity will be doomed!! And earth will become the Planet of the Apes!! :-(

You have "talent" and "knowledge"? HP must be smoking pot when he wrote that. Clever fellow though... He has slapped you hard many times... on these boards... except that he has patted you on the head while doing so.

I used to think a certain Professor Ali Sina was the worst idiot on the web... then I came across you. Man you take the cake.

HP is right that I should not waste my time, talent and knowledge bickering with dimwits like you Manto......now run away....

HP is right. You are incapable of looking at the bigger picture...

Probably because you have your head stuck up where the sun don't shine.

HP writes "His refusal to look at the big picture"

The biggest picture on the global scene these days is the world system, whose institutions are dominated by the US elite, and I have a clear focus on them....

How old are you Masadi.. really ? 5?

Tahmed wrote "You cant claim to care for humanity the way you do in #129, and then turn around and do your best to berate and belittle people you are interacting with (as you routinely do on chowk, not just with evil people like me, but even with gentlemen like Ferozk "

I should listen to HP and not bother with your BS, my "belittling" is based on issues, issues that emerge from Feroz's writing which reveal quite clearly to me where his loyalties lie and they are not with the people....now go to hell, apologists for colonizers and imperialists and barbarians who destroy nations don't have any feet to stand upon to tell others about "people". You are a disgrace not only to Pakistan but the entire human race. If humanity is like you then I'll renounce my membership in its ranks.

PS: The only thing you've shaken here is your tail and nothing else really.

So don't go on declaring victory like Saddam Hussain after Gulf War 1.

Apparently giving sources from authentic authors is copy pasting... meanwhile abuse all day long is "argument". What an academic.

Masadi to date you haven't answered one single question I have asked you... except abuse. I suppose this passes for academic debate where you come from i.e. Assylum for the insane.

Feroz writes "I think that Masadi's problem is that he is an academican and somewhere he got lost in the academia and lost all contact with reality"

Another cheap excuse from someone who has really poor comprehension. He reads the preamble of the US constitution and concludes that it says that governments are created to bring happiness to the people. He reads that a certain amendment is illegal and thus not applicable and then concludes that another amendment would be need to amend the illegal amendment. He reads that the parliment under the gun constructed a law and then says "why did they not resign". This guy is pathetic, I doubt if he ever went beyond the bachelor's level in his "education" and yet poses as a dispenser of reality. The facts are on my side, I tabulate them in every post, while the US elite dominate the world system and its institutions, this jerk thinks that they are "demons" of my own creation, somewhat similar to Fox News propaganda trying to brush away facts in the tabloid manner.

Regarding Manto, in every argument he has brought forth, and he hasnt brought forth many, mostly he is capable of only copy-pastes, I have dismantled them and shaken the faith of countless folk here in the church of Maj, now for the first time young folk and old alike on here question the feudal, anti-Muslim, origins of Pakistan and the shenanigans of the MFJ where the M stands for mama, the F for (F'ing) and the J for Jinnah, who whored the Muslims of India to both the Colonials and the Hindu elite.....

Ah... I suppose some people just want to vent their frustration with being an Indian. Mahatma Modi, Mahatma Advani and Mahatma Gandhi ji ki jai.

#159 Posted by MantoLives on October 2, 2007 5:53:30 am


blah blah gandhi blah jinnah blah august 11th speech blah


You can spin it anyway you want...build theories that only play in your echo-chamber of self-delusion...theories that nobody outside pureland is buying..

The fact remains: Pureland, TODAY, is known by the world for being the cradle of islamic terrorism.

Re: # 159

Answers to Pakistan's Jinnah and Liaqat Ali
Khans are India's Mody and Advani and Thakre.
No match at all, Indian standards fall way
short of Pakistan, Pakistan wins again
hands down in this category.

Yaar Shishapa,

Not everything is a childish game. Besides... I am only pointing out a fact of history... not indulging in who won or lost.

ghandhi wins, Mr. Jinnah warned ghandhi
against commuanlism but succumbed (sp?)
and become communal like ghandhi.
I would say the most effective and best
disciple of communal gandhi was Jinnah.

Shishapa bhaijaan...

Read #127 in full if you have the moral courage to.

Mohar mian...

Please read post #127... The victim of the Congress' pandering to the Mullah to this day remains you... the Indian Hindu.

Pakistan's problems are not unique to Pakistan. Any Muslim majority society in this day and age would go through a similar trajectory and most Muslim societies are (as any Christian Society in the 16th century would have)... it is about the evolution of society. We will come out of it.

But imagine what happened with you... the Indian Hindu. Not only did those like Jinnah - who as a Congressmen had warned against pandering to the Mullahs- managed to get large tracts of lands in the name of settlement on behalf of the Muslims... but Congress' unholy matrimony with the Ulema of Deoband left Congress and India in a position where it can't even have one uniform secular civil code despite being a constitutionally secular country... where the state is not only forced to put up with the polygamous habits of a minority... but the state is also forced to subsidise the same.

And the unkindest cut of all for Hindus like you... the Republic of India recognises and even gives pensions to Moplahs (who burnt Hindus like you alive) in the non-cooperation/Khilafat Movement.

All this could have been avoided... had Gandhi listened to Jinnah... but I have made a solemn promise not to bash Gandhi on his birthday... and so I won't say much more on this topic today.