Dillu Ram Kausari: The Hindu Poet who Loved The Prophet

the BEST book for this topic by the way is "And Muhammad is His Messenger: Veneration of the Prophet in Islamic Piety" by Prof. Anne-Marie Schimmel.

one follows the commands of the koran and the sunnah because of love of Allah and love of His Prophet! why? because perfect love demands obedience to the beloved!

zahid sahib and kaalchakra sahib,

i believe in my previous posts i have demonstrated quite clearly that what zahid sahib considers only a 'barelvi' trait -i.e. boundless love for the prophet--is not in fact a barelvi thing at all but present in all traditional muslims from the time of the companions. the reason the barelvis emphasise it so vehemently was due to the fact that in the past 150 odd years a group of muslims were born who tried to lessen the love of the prophet amongst muslims--i.e. the deobandis and the wahabis.

religion without love is dead. i answered the theological basis of it by quoting koranic verses and hadith which command us to love the prophet more than anything else but it appears zahid khusk sahib has overlooked it.

as for the omnipresence and omniscience of the prophet that also is NOT only a Barelvi belief but a Sunni belief in general and particularly emphasised by the sufis.

as for the contention by zahid sahib that such love makes muslims inward looking and too pacifist to confront evil then that is not true since this belief has--i have already shown--existed for most of islamic theological history and it doesn't seem to have prevented muslims from confronting evil. indeed, most of the conquerors of india had sufi saints in their retinue who accompanied them and the majority of people who fought in the war of independence of 1857 from the muslims were traditionalists.

i would counter that it is only since certain groups have de-emphasised the love of the prophet that muslims have reached this nadir.

Allah's help is contingent upon love of the Prophet!

zahid, were naqsh bhai to suggest (as I think he he does) that boundless love for Muhammad (and Allah) comes AFTER doing all other things that the Quran requires of a Muslim, then probably there may be less of a confusion.

So from what one gathers, sufis don't claim to supplant the Quran, but in some ways 'transcend' it or at least 'transcend' other people's understanding of it through their LOVE of Muhammad and Allah.

Anyways, naqsh is highly informed of these matters, and can best clarify. Earlier in the discussion, I had even mistaken him for a non-Muslim, but that was clearly wrong, and I apololgized to him for that.

Dear KaalChakra and Naqshbandi Sahib,


Brelvi theology’s foundation is the boundless love for Muhammed. That translates itself into such beliefs as the omniscience and omnipresence of Muhammed. This is the great dividing line between Muslims. This boundless love is Christianity-inspired with the promise of Muhammed’s intercession for the salvation of the believer. Here’s a caveat. What’s the basis of salvation? Good works of the believer according to the teachings of God conveyed by Muhammed or the believer’s boundless love for Muhammed as the messenger of God?

This notion of love or the good works as the basis of salvation has great implications in the shaping of the character of the believer. One sees clearly that Brelvi religion is inward-looking and lacks aggression that one needs for the confrontation of the outer evil, whereas the Deobandi theology is fitter for struggle due to lesser emphasis on the love for Muhammed. The other extreme school of thought is the puritanical Wahabi which almost rules out the notion of love and places the responsibility solely on the believer who could attain salvation on the basis of his good works. Clearly it belongs to the fittest struggle-theologies as endorsed by statistics.

But why boundless love? There are those who always remain within the shadow of the prophet and there are some who dare to look beyond. You might call them daredevil but their urge to get a better sense of what truth is instigates them to do just that. A direct consequence of such an investigative mindset is the disappearance of that blind and irresistible love that is the basis of Brelvi theology.

zahid, I completely understand and appreciate where you are coming from. In fact, it is a pleasure to hear people who think about these things precisely without drowning them in relatively irrelevant issues.

Don't know about laddu sahib, but I personally find your logic compelling, and have no problem with acknowledging it.

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Even more interesting than that discussion is the phenomenal conversation you and naqsh are conducting. If one really believes in Islam, then there is ond message in it, not two, or five, or twenty different messages.

So how sufism fits in all this is an issue of greatest importance, not just for this world, and for the world beyond this life.

We are benefitting from the conversation you and naqsh are conducting and look forward to arriving at some greater clarity than we currently possess. Thanks, zahid.

Dear Laddu and KaalChakra Sahib,

Let me begin with a word on Laddu Sahib’s persistent protest regarding Muslim conquest of the pagan India. I mentioned repeatedly in my previous posts that the motivation behind such invasions was not solely personal gain – though that possibly gave momentum – but the innate urge of the monotheistic beliefs to spread themselves and overturn what they see as false systems. I also gave examples from Christian history both peaceful as in the case of the early Christians and aggressive as the later conquest of the Americas. I also talked about the only substantial expansive campaign in the history, the Hellenism. Here comes the character of the third monotheistic belief of Abrahmic tradition, the Jewish faith into light. When Greeks tried to install Zeus’ statues in the synagogues the monotheistic Geist of the Jewish people couldn’t tolerate that sacrilege and their revolt went into world history as the legendary Maccabean wars. Jews also revolted against the other world power the Romans. It was not merely about their land but primarily about the insult that they felt being subjugated by pagan Greeks and Romans. I urge you Laddu Sahib to consider also this while abusing Islam. Laddu Sahib is overly preoccupied with Indian history and the pain that still lingers due to the Muslim invasions and the following rule and that’s why he doesn’t talk about Christian invasions.

laddu#153:

I have the same question for you that I had for Naqsh. How many Muslims do you know who drink camel piss? So, either they are not true Muslims or it is not a part of their religion.

Re: # 152
btw you forgot the camel pis prescribed by prophet- apart from rape .

Hope zahid and naqsh will continue their discussion.

The precise role of LOVE, and its RELATIVE position, within Islam is a fascinating subject, that might mean more for everyone than the taste of gao mutra (a supposedly refreshing drink that some report enjoying immensely).

Zahid, naqsh, please continue, if you can. We rarely learn as much as from your clear thinking, which is not always exactly the same as ours. Thanks in anticipation to both.

Re: # 150
tahmed saheb
that's the way wolfy's sufi style dawah ends- either in cess or blood pool.

laddu and naqshbandi: I believe you gentlemen have brought the race to the bottom to its logical conclusion - in the pool of animal urine.

Re: # 147
wolfy, better look at your own imaan than preach about my dharma. Do you deny that drinking camel pis is not part of your sunnat?

Naqsh sahib:

"don't try to deny that drinking urine of cows is not a part of your dharma?!"

You have perhaps read more Hindu religious books than I have (which is very little), so could you please tell me which Hindu religious book says that a Hindu must drink cow's urine? Of course, I do know that many Hindus do ascribe medicinal properties to cow's urine.

I am sure you know many Hindus. How many do you know who drink cow's urine? So, either they are not following their "dharma" or it is not part of their dharma( btw, dharma does not mean "religion" as you understand it) .

On a sidenote of scientific trivia, Harvard University gives Ignoble Prizes every year for freakish inventions/discoveries. One of this year's recepient was a Japanese woman who has extracted vanilla extract from cow-dung. She demonstrated her invention and, believe it or not, the judges tasted it and found it yummy. Yuchh!

no laddu.
don't try to deny that drinking urine of cows is not a part of your dharma?!

Re: # 144
wolfy, you must be drinking camel's piss as directed by your prophet?