Dillu Ram Kausari: The Hindu Poet who Loved The Prophet

Thank you, asif bhai. You have really captured the love that sufis and sufi lites speak of.

Asif;

Thanks for writing this.. more later

Kaal,

Glad you enjoyed it bhai! :-)

Naqsh,

I have no doubt abt ur devotion and ur love of the devoted.

However I found ur post on Mutiny board to be very surprising that u seemd like a lover of power (we ruled them for 800 yrs stuff) & not the lover of God.

Well written article & thanks 4 the new parable of the undivided civilisation.

Kaal...hmmm....dunno if Kaal enjoyed it as much as it boiled his blood.

I ask all to pay attention to Kaal, for he deserves it.

This gentle soul is hurt and seeking a healing he cannot find.

I ask all to withhold judgement against Kaal, for I have contemplated on this matter, and have an insight that may or may not be useful.

Naqsh. Finally, a good post from you :)
with much respect,
thinking storm

ha ha ha, ts bhai,

I am losing hope you will get it, ever. Please reconsider.

Look, naqshbhai is a genuine sufi, a Muslim. This article explains clearly the most important element of sufi love - its clear meaning. True, most Hindus are slow in the uptake, but at least naqsh bhai has not tried to pass something off which it is not.

That, that TRUTH is all one expects from others.

Fitt hai?

Naqshbandi sahib:

You did not mention which period Dillu Ram belonged. There was a period in India called - bhakti (devotion) period. During this period religious boundaries were not finely defined, or however else one may say. There were poets like Abdur Rahim Khankhana, Kabir who were born Muslim.

How would you accept the fact that Dillu Ram saw the soul of Mohammad. Isn't soul an alien concept to Islam, and that too of a prophet? Did Sufism in India accepted such hindu concepts?

Re: # 7

More....

Before, Kaal changes his mind from calling me a Jain, I want to reiterate my belief - God is the best imagination of man. Dillu Ram included just proved it in this narration.

cheesy throughout and a bit daft at the end

Kaal bhai,

Hold on bro, I am almost there...I do need a new UP thread as I have used up my quote of 3.

You my friend have continued to portray me in a negative light, as a deceiver, where I have done no such thing. Perhaps one day you will be honest in your portrayal of me. But no matter, I can empathise with you.

BTW, I do require your feedback on the hindu agony thread I opened on UP. The PART 1 thread may be too humorous and low brow for your tastes, but I am interested in your opinion on the PART 2 of the hindu agony threads.

Talk soon.


with much respect,
thinking storm

..... is there a chance that this person - dillu ram or whatever - might have been mentally deranged ?......... he sounds like the guy who runs naked through the streets with children and dogs chasing him .......

poor Dillu Ram...wrong place wrong time...he could have been a prophet.:-)

Naqsh, just finished actually reading this write up.

Do you suppose there might be any records or recollections of this gentleman in any non-Islamic sources?

Nicely done Asif Bhai. Magar aapp achii khasii baat kartayy kartayy behak jatayy hein. Aaqir mein hazrat farmaty hein " sunni barelvi islam". Bhai khali Islamm sayy aapka kaam nahii chalta harr jagaahh tafarqa dalna lazim-0-malzoom hay kyaa? Dawayy nabi (SAW) kii mohabatt kayy hein orr ussii kii ummat mein hiisayy baqyayy bhii karnayy hein. Hazrat kabhii too jahalatt sayy chook jaya karein

Hamid Masih ...wassup old man...hows the ice cream business?

abu,

and naqsh thought you wouldn't notice.

See that's my beef with Naqsh. This whole sunni shia bs. I cannot accept one as a sufi, who is unaccepting at that level. Actually naqsh is at a deeper division with the brelvi stuff.

Truly sad.

But then again, it doesn't matter at all what I think, for I am not his father superior in the sufi order ;)
with much respect,
thinking storm

TS: you don't have to be the sheikh in superior order...u can be a 2 yr old son of the sheikh...n he'd give more respect to your opinion on fiqh than to phd's in hadith. Its all about the lineage my friend.... u can take the brahmin-mentality out of islam..but u cant take it out of the muslims

Wali sahib,

You seem to be very fond of Dillusahib. Would you be equally proud of a Muslim poet who sang paens to some Kaffir God?

Btw, did Dillusahib also bring some dead parrot back to life?

Regards

Re: # 7
anil bhai soul is NOT an alien concept to islam. every living being has a soul, a ruh. death is simply the moment when the soul leaves its temporary cage, i.e. the body. the souls of the righteous may travel wherever they will. this is especially true of the prophets and saints.

Re: # 7

i will try to find out which period dillu ram kausari belonged but i think it was early 20th century.

VRV,

As a Muslim I feel that the end of the Mughal dynasty was a disaster for the Muslims of united India hence my bemoaning the fact. Yes, I am proud of Muslim rule in India but not in a chauvinistic way--after all, the Mughals also had plenty of faults. Yet I feel that overall it would have been better if they'd remained.
I am a nobody but power and potential love of God are not mutually exclusive. Hazrat Umar ibn Abd al Aziz aka as Umar II of the Umayyad Dynasty was, universally accepted by traditional Muslims (both Sunni and Shia) as a saint of Allah, a wali and yet he was caliph of the world's greatest superpower of the time. Sainthood and love are matters of the HEART and not dependent on one's material circumstances.
:-)

Wali sahib,

(Yes, I am proud of Muslim rule in India . Yet I feel that overall it would have been better if they'd remained. )

I presume you would support Muslim minorities ruling over non-Muslim majorities but would consider non-Muslim minorities ruling over Muslim majorities as imperialism, right?

Regards

The focus on praising prophet is more of an attempt to subsume Gnostics under Islam so that the pagan and kafir Gnostics do not bear the violence of Mohammad's Islam.

Dillu probably never read the original Quran and the original Shahi Hadiths.
stories like these are typical taquiyya to fool pagans into thinking that Islam has anything to do with spirituality. The fact remains that Sunnat has nothing to do with Gnosticism whose real traditions has always been outside the hard core Islamic traditions.

There are equally better and authentic stories about Krishan Bhakt's like Ras Khan and other Gnostics like Kabir who were accepted as part of the Vaishnava tradition.
Ask any Sunni if Dilu or any of those are part of Islamic tradition or not. He would probably wave his sword high in the air in order to make his point.
All this sufi talk is plain taquiyya that does not fool idolators like me.

Laddu,

Good that you raised Ras Khan. I believe there a few other Muslim poets (including a Bijapur Sultan) who sang in praise of Hindu Gods. Wonder what Wali sahib has to say about these people.

Regards

Ask any Sunni if he considers all these to be part of the Islam-

1. Lord Ram blessing Prince Dara Shikoh in a dream

2. Abdul Rahim Khankhana, ( alias the great Krishna bhakt, famous for Rahim ke dohe)praising Krishna.

3. Suhagan Sufis of Ahmedabad, Gujarat, who dressed like Hindu brides, with red sindoor and called themselves the dulhans of God/ Allah. Lal sindoor and chooris are offered at their dargahs.

4. Nawabs of Awadh, spending 13 days in celebrating Holi. Wajid Ali Shah’s court played Raslila, for Lord Krishna.

5.Mian Mardana, a Muslim rabab player who played the rabab in the Golden temple for 500 years till 1947.

6. Celebrating Basant panchmi by singing Saraswti vandanas and bringing sarson flowers and saffron chadars to the dargahs.

7. That Ras Khan was one of the many Muslim Krishna bhakts and renounced everything to live in Vrindavan, upon seeing a baniya’s son, whom he worshipped as Krishna.

8.Hundreds of Krishna bhajans have been written by Muslims like Amir Khusro, Rahim, Hazrat Sarmad, Dadu, Baba Farid, many of which are part of the Guru Granth sahib.

9. And finally, Sadarang and the entire tradition of classical khayal singers singing compositions in praise of Krishna and on hindu idolator themes.

Ask any follower of Prophet's sunnat if any of these are part of the Islamic tradition??

This article and other interract proves that ALL religion has been tolerant. Only recently satan has got hold of these relegion and each claiming monopoly. I am sure the choice of this monopoly is entirely ours and goes to show that we are not true followers of our religion.

Re: # 25

laddu mian,

...... as a sunni muslim i consider all this stuff, and much much more, to be part of islam ...... but then, i also think pork is halal and hindoos are regular people .........

Hamid mian,

(as a sunni muslim i consider all this stuff, and much much more, to be part of islam ...... but then, i also think pork is halal and hindoos are regular people ......... )

I suspected that you thought so. But does Wali sahib think so, I wud be quite interested in knowing that.

Regards

Re: # 18 majumdar
[.....Would you be equally proud of a Muslim poet who sang paens to some Kaffir God?...]

Are you kidding? Naqshbaandi called Salman Khan an apostate and was ready to kill him because he participated in Ganesh Puja or some other hindu worship... He was livid with rage that a muslim took part in a pagan ritual - that, he said, is completely forbidden by the bedouin prophet... :)

And now - this dude is singing paeans to some pagan who was supposedly "loved the prophet"... pagans worshipping bedouin god is good, but bedouins worshipping pagan god is bad... :)

And what's up with this "love the prophet" business?... are these bedouins freaking gay or something?

Re: # 6 kaal
[...Look, naqshbhai is a genuine sufi, a Muslim...]

Yep - the dude is a genuine muslim alright: death to the muslim worhsipping pagan god... but praise pagan worshipping bedouin god... that sounds like a good muslim to me... :)

yeah, we have all kinds of nutcases in India

Re: # 30

You are certainly spot on.

This is infact called Dhimmitude- the Dhimmi's must praise the Prophet, consider Islam as the greatest thing on the earth, accept smaking on their back, give their women as slaves and pay jizya- and then curse their Gods for letting them rot as dhimmi slaves.

A Dhimmi Dillu is certainly praise worthy- but a munafiqoon and mushriqoon Dara Shikhon is to be torn to pieces and his body dragged all over the city in display!!!

Re: # 30

Kaal is CLEARLY not an idolator hindu!!
Probably a troll!!

Sometimes ago I read a book titled "The Wisdom of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)" penned by Hussain Shaheed Suhrwardi. The preface was written by none other but Gandhi and I must say quite eloquently and elegantly. Orginally published in Delhi few decades ago, this book has now been published again by a publisher in New York and it is available in all major book stores.

Those who are intersted in understanding the views of Prophet (pbuh) on various attributes of human nature will find this book quite educational.

50 Words of Wisdom by Holy Prophet (pbuh)

http://www.islamfortoday.com/athar16.htm


My personal favorite is:

"It is better to sit alone than in company with the bad; and it is better still to sit with the good than alone. It is better to speak to a seeker of knowledge than to remain silent; but silence is better than idle words." (Bukhari)

#25 Posted by laddu on October 2, 2007 11:24:09 pm
Ask any Sunni if he considers all these to be part of the Islam-'

You my friend are full of anger against Islam in General.A muslim in turkey Egypt Lebenan Syria are not exposed to Hinduism as Muslims of India..Including Pakistan pre 47 for which rascist Hamid is responsible.

All these people you list arent they from India?.Isnt Islam in India has its own flavour different than countries like Egypt syria?Have you seen any Muslim in India breaking any Idol.So plz be more discrening .If you have any gripes with Islam religion you should realy have gripe with saudi Syria And even Pakistan.As for totaly being Indian are the hindus totally pre 1000 yrs since foreign influence .Why did not Hindustan reject eveything that came after including English and Wetern Influence And Education.Talk about non indegenous India India is Shining to day because of Imported Multiplex Mscdonalds and rush for every thing American not Sanskrit Haridwar Mathura Kashi or puri.You know the fountain of prehistoric india

Re: # 36

".Isnt Islam in India has its own flavour different than countries like Egypt syria?"

My gripe is against the likes of wolf in sheep clothing like Naqshabandi who consider a Dhimmi's profession of love towards Prophet as acceptable - but considers muslims like Dara Shikhon reading Upanishads or say Salman Khan praying to Ganapati as deserving some thing more violent and un acceptable in his 'sufi' Islam.

the fact is that all these Sunnat professing faithfuls , whether they call themselves sufi or otherwise, want to see arse licking Dhimmis but would kill any mushriqoon or pagan idolator who professes his love fore pagan faith openly before him.

Infact this sufi Islam is a load of taquiyya that does not impresses hindu pagans who have a long tradition of gnosticism and asceticism.

Re: # 36

"Have you seen any Muslim in India breaking any Idol."

Hello!!!You are from which world??

Mohar

Sorry, I had missed Wali sahib's post on Salman Khan's apostasy. But it comes as no surprise to me. Kind of expected it.

Regards

Mohabat ka koi Mazhab naheen.

yeh wooh fitree insani jasba hey, jis ko Mazhab kee masnooee zanjeereen Qaid naheen ker sekteen.


Masjid dha de, mandir dha de, dha de jo kucch dainda
Par kisi da dil na dhain, Rab dilan vich rehnda

Dillu Ram was a cheater. He became a Muslim without the pain of circumcision. :-)

I saw circumcision of my pals in childhood. It's a split second operation. They never cried except until they got is very close. After operation, they didnt cry at all.

I never knew what the hakim did with the skin-band? What they do btw? Do they bury it or feed birds?

A genuine question (no insult or insinuation meant).

Re: # 35 urstruly
[...Words of Wisdom by Holy Prophet (pbuh)...]

So what does the prophet have to say about folks like Salman Khan or Dara Sikho who did pagan worship?

Re: # 37

Yep - that's good muslims for you... praise the hinud admiring Mo, kill the muslim admiring to Ram... That's the true blue muslims - the kind this dude Kaal likes and goes way out to defend them and their murderous ideology...

The guy is nuts... :)

mohar, my gentle hindu friend with violent tendencies,

you are wrong about Kaal.

Please wander on to UP, there is a discussion going on about the Hindu agony...3 parts so far. Kaal is featured on part 3.


with much respect,
thinking storm

to all the enemies of islam like laddu i have nothing to say. let him read the story of one of his own, the blessed dillu ram, who left paganism to embrace the religion of his Beloved, and let laddu burn with rage at that.

of course, millions of people of all faiths and none embrace islam and thus become enamoured of the blessed prophet every year--something laddu cannot take. how many people from any religion convert to hinduism?! it is a negligible number.

btw dillu ram was ostracised by other hindus for his love of the Habib. so much for your so called hindu tolerance. we have seen how tolerant practising hindus are when they are in govt. in gujraat.

when muslims have been in power we have NEVER witnessed the whole-sale genocide of hindus or anyone else that we saw in gujraat.

your idea of a good muslim is someone who really isn't a muslim at all but maybe has a muslim name but practises hindu rites.

"to all the enemies of islam like laddu i have nothing to say. let him read the story of one of his own, the blessed dillu ram, who left paganism to embrace the religion of his Beloved, and let laddu burn with rage at that."

Mr Wolfy, I am indeed an enemy of every damned rascal who considers it OK to kill idolators and those who do not care a damned for your type of 'sufi' Islam.
Any way this Naqshabandi sect itself is a part of the mullah order - licking the arse of mullahs all the time and accepting their kick in the butt.
Can't blame you - but your sheikhs for brain washing you!!

ts

Thanks but no thanks... I usually stay clear from netherworld called "Unplugged "... I would rather be upfront in front page...

ts

Thanks but no thanks... I usually stay clear from netherworld called "Unplugged "... I would rather be upfront in front page...

Re: # 47

"when muslims have been in power we have NEVER witnessed the whole-sale genocide of hindus or anyone else that we saw in gujraat."

If you kill all the idolators and zimmis- Islam would collapse under its own burden of hate!!!

This is the fact about your mullah Islam- you let the zimii slaves live because you need their blood and labour.

Care to know how a Naqshabandi Sufi order with its thousand dollar dress and paraphernalia survives in the world without making a living - it is slave pushing and rent seeking in the name of zimmi-dari!!

Sufi Islamic order is all about slave pushing - albeit in a gentler way!!!

Re: # 47
[...when muslims have been in power we have NEVER witnessed the whole-sale genocide of hindus or anyone else that we saw in gujraat....]

here we again - pakis and their bullsh!t...

How else do you think you became muslims?... because your grandpa Gopinath "loved the prophet"?... mass murders and rapine, religious persecution, destruction of temples, idols, forced conversion was rampant... even a celebrated ruler like Tipu Sultan used convert thousands per day at the pain of death...

And then there was Mopalah or some place in kerala where muslims killed scores of their hindu neighbors because some khilafat thing happened in distant turkey or some other bedouin place...

But that's history...

Re: # 46

"millions of people of all faiths and none embrace islam and thus become enamoured of the blessed prophet every year--something laddu cannot take. how many people from any religion convert to hinduism?! it is a negligible number."

This propaganda about the 'fastest growing religion' is basically Goebellian propaganda.
Only wolfy's Islam considers 'conversion' as a 'victory'- that is because his Islam lives in a condition of constant war with other faiths and seeks to decimate them.
That is why his Islam would NEVER acknowledge its growing and multiplying number of apostates. Nor would it acknowldge the mushrooming of pagan practices like Yoga in the west.
Inhis Islam , and under fear and concern about their lives NO apostate announces his apostasy. That does not mean that apostates do not exist like Ahmedijan's homosexuals in Iran.
The fact is that the number of apostates with in Islam is rising manifold everyday and this is a SILENT revolution that is ha penning howsoever wolfy may deny it.
No conversion to Hinduism is turned into a propaganda event to flaunt 'superiority' of the faith.
It is only mullah Islam of Mr. Wolfy with its siege mentality, that makes such laughable claims about it's impending fascistic victory march.

Re: # 53

well said... this brings back the original point - why should Salman Khan who found solace in hinud worship be vilified where as some old dude call Dillu plucked from history be celebrated...

Re: # 27

"..... as a sunni muslim i consider all this stuff, and much much more, to be part of islam ...... but then, i also think pork is halal and hindoos are regular people ........."

Hamid mian,

It would be interesting to know what 'more' you consider to be part of your Sunnat!!

hamidm bhai, duniyan nu khush karna baRha aukha...if one is born East of Attock, one has to worry about one's face, if one is born West of Attock, one has to worry about one's ass. choices are: fair and lovely or ky jelly. :)

#52 Posted by mohar11 on October 3, 2007 12:44:54 pm
Re: # 47
[...when muslims have been in power we have NEVER witnessed the whole-sale genocide of hindus or anyone else that we saw in gujraat....]

here we again - pakis and their bullsh!t...

How else do you think you became muslims?... because your grandpa Gopinath "loved the prophet"?... mass murders and rapine, religious persecution, destruction of temples, idols, forced conversion was rampant... even a celebrated ruler like Tipu Sultan used convert thousands per day at the pain of death...

And then there was Mopalah or some place in kerala where muslims killed scores of their hindu neighbors because some khilafat thing happened in distant turkey or some other bedouin place...

But that's history...




Ye paleet hinood itne jhutein hain isiliy inse dosti karne ko mana kiya gaya hai. these liars know that all conversion in India was done by sufis, the chishtiya and naqshbandis and suharawardis and qadiris are responsible for our salvation yet lies upon lies are uttered by them, about Tipu, Aurangzeb, Babar. arey gadhe ki aulad agar zabardasti karte to tum kaise bach gaye teli ram, kya tum se dar gaye babar ghori aur ghazni? hehehe

asses moplah rebelion was against hindu landlords not for muslim khalifa atleast learn your own history and tipu converting thousands everyday, joker kis khet ki mooli hai tu?

forget guys like ghauri, ghazni, balban, timur or babar - who beat all their rajputs put to gether with 12000 men, they would have peed from fear infront of these guys if just the other weak muslim rulers had converted even 0.1% of the population in 800 years of mulim rule 80% of india would have been muslim

these hypocrites cry so much now they would have cried a river if that had happened

the only time conversion was done forcebly was when it was used as a punishment by some ruler against his enemies, that means it was never used for mass conversions, leave aside by sufis, and it was used as a punishment precisely because the ruler knew how much the hindus hated mslims i.e. how awful the thought of dharm bhrasht was, and punishment means automatically it was temporary,

but hindu liars cant accept that large numbers of their co religionists would accept islam over hinduism it hurts their pride.

the evidence of the success of islam and the sufis is that the vast majority of the converts in the subcontinent are from th lowest castes of hinduism, weavers, bhangis, artisans. d u think the upper castes didnt convert because they had more courage than the lower castes?

can any one imagine the pathans of NWFP being converted by force? try it today.

All over the internet and every where else u meet a hindu he cries about forced conversions, if u ask him why forced conversions took place in east bengal and not in west he has no idea becaue he has no idea about the work of suhrawrdi sufi in east bengal

you ask him how were pathans converted by force and he will start looking into his armpits, you ask him why conversions took place at the extremities of india and not at the center he has no idea, he has no idea why first conversions in india happened in kerala or how malaysia, indonesia converted, or why in kasmir all the farmers are muslim or why all the weavers, locksimith, metalworkers in UP are muslim?

they have no idea that all the converts in ajmer are from one sufi and his shrine or the same in Pak Pattan, because the hindu has been fed on propoganda from the time of the arya samajis, rss and the false stories of the sikh gurus, for example they will never explain that the sikhs were bandits and their gurus were strung up because they were a menace to law and order under the mughals, cooked up stories about their tortures are proogated and repeated in imitation of shia matams during moharram .

lies, lies and more lies

RE: #56 dullabhatti

Sir, that was a classic...

Ki Karay Banda?

Re: # 56

Hamidm Sahib:

Dullabhatti says it right. "Attock se Cuttock tak" Emproror Ashoka to Sher Shah Suri linked the people. You can call it destiny or GT Road. Religions may be different, genes are quite same. I am certain you must have learned a few things from Mrs. Hamidm and your lovely daughters. Female empowerment and female education is needed, whether it is imparted in Lal Masjids, or in the school my mother started. Let it be. Support it, don't fight it. You will be amazed before your life will be over.

borivili

Ha ha... another paki dancing with his tail on fire...

Look - you pakis believe in all kinds of bullsh!t and fictions... heck, you would buy brooklyn bridge if somebody told ya that Mo p!ssed on it sometime in 7th century... :)

I understand your predicament... nobody likes to be known as product of rape and coercion... which is why most of you fictionlize your lineage to bedouins and central asians and what not... you hate your hinuds neighbors, your own hinud ancestors, your reject your own history, culture... you try to be more bedouin then bedouin themselves... you are full of inferiority complex regarding who you are...

You can run away from your history... :)

Nice article !congrats.
mazHur

Mohar u are a liar, if u had said mulims are wannabe arabs i would have acceptaed that but you said tipu sultan used to convert thousand forcibly and that moplahs killed hindu landlords for some khalifa, and that conversions and rapes were comon under muslim rulers this is ur way of justifying gujarat?

I do not intend to spam the place with all those boastings by the Moghuls and Momeen Islam followers after they had routinely murdered and slaughter my hindu idolator fore fathers.

Here is a small sample from the"sufi" HAZRAT AMĪR KHUSRAU’S

KHAẒĀ’INUL FUṬŪḤ on Allahuddin Khilji. There are plenty of Namas and megalomaniac momeen's idolator slaughter that now runs deep in the 'spiritual traditions' of Pakistani muslims!!

http://persian.packhum.org/persian//pf?file=02003020&ct=0


"On the day the yellow-faced Rāī sought refuge in the red canopy from fear of the green swords, the great Emperor (May his prosperity continue!) was still crimson with rage. But when he saw the vegetarian Rāī trembling with fear, like the trampled and withered grass under the Imperial tent,—though the Rāī was a rebel, yet the breeze of royal mercy did not allow any hot wind to blow upon him. All the storm of the Emperor’s wrath vented itself against the other rebels. He ordered that wherever a green Hindū was found, he was to be cut down like dry grass. Owing to this stern order, thirty thousand Hindūs were slain in one day. It seemed that the meadows of Khiẓrābād had grown men instead of grass. After the wind of Imperial wrath had uprooted all the muqaddams,* he rid the land of its two colours, and helped the raīyats, the cultivators of the land, among whom no thorn raises its head, to grow. "

Here is something to chew upon and burn all those Pak Studies history books -

The OBJECTIVES of invasion of india is abundantly clear-

Taimur has in his Memoir explained what led him to invade India. He says:
" My object in the invasions of Hindustan is to lead a campaign against the infidels, to convert them to the true faith according to the command of Muhammad (on whom and his family be the blessing and peace of God), to purify the land from the defilement of misbelief and polytheism, and overthrow the temples and idols, whereby we shall be Ghazis and Mujahids, companions and soldiers of the faith before God. "

Laddu tu kya pagal hai? jahil history padh Timur spent most of his life attacking muslims inturkey, central aia, Iran and middle east,he used to carry the otoman sultan Beyazid in a cage with him and had raped and killed his wife, he used to still indulge in shamanism, the ancient pagan religion of mongols and tartars and followed the mongol practice of making mountains of heads the arab muslims who u abuse neve did that else such large numbers would never conver in the middle east,north africa, centra asia, iran and th subcontinent and Timur converted no one in India

Jahil, neither did Tipu convert anybody

Re: # 68

Here is somethng more about Muhammad of Ghazni who also looked upon his numerous invasions of India as the waging of a holy war. Al' Utbi, the historian of Muhammad, describing his raids writes :
" He demolished idol temples and established Islam. He captured ...... cities, killed the polluted wretches, destroying the idolaters, and gratifying Muslims. ' He then returned home and promulgated accounts of the victories obtained for Islam. ....... and vowed that every year he would undertake a holy war against Hind " Mahommed Ghori was actuated by the same holy zeal in his invasions of India. Hasan Nizami, the historian, describes his work in the following terms :
" He purged by his sword the land of Hind from the filth of infidelity and vice, and freed the whole of that country from the thorn of God-plurality and the impurity of idol-worship, and by his royal vigour and intrepidity left not one temple standing

In one of his dispatches to Hajjaj, Mahommad bin Qasim is quoted to have said :
" The nephew of Raja Dahir, his warriors and principal officers have been dispatched, and the infidels converted to Islam or destroyed. Instead of idol-temples, mosques and other places of worship have been created, the Kulbah it read, the call to prayers is raised, so that devotions are performed at stated hours. The Takbir and praise to the Almighty God are offered every morning and evening. "


After receiving the above dispatch, which had been forwarded with the head of the Raja, Hajjaj sent the following reply to his general:
" Except that you give protection to all, great and small alike, make no difference between enemy and friend. God, says, ' Give no quarter to infidels but cut their throats '. Then know that this is the command of the great God. You shall not be too ready to grant protection, because it will prolong your work. After this give no quarter to any enemy except those who are of rank."

Re: # 68

So you think Tipu Sultan is your poster boy? Here is something to chew about :-

Following are from the research articles published by Sardar K.M. Panicker in the Bhasha Poshini magazine of Chingam 1099 of the Malayalam Era corresponding to August, 1923. They were obtained by him from The India Office Library in London during his intensive research regarding Kerala history. Tipu's real character is revealed here.

1. Letter dated March 22, 1788, to Abdul Kadir: "Over 12,000 Hindus were 'honoured' with Islam. There were many Namboodiris (Brahmins) among them. This achievement should be widely publicised among the Hindus. There the local Hindus should be brought before you and then converted to Islam. No Namboodiri (Brahmin) should be spared. Also they should be confined there till the dress materials sent for them, reach you."

2. Letter dated December 14, 1788, to his Army Chief in Calicut: "I am sending two of my followers with Mir Hussain Ali. With their assistance, you should capture and kill all Hindus. Those below 20 may be kept in prison and 5,000 from the rest should be killed by hanging from the tree-tops. These are my orders."

3. Letter dated December 21, 1788, to Sheik Kutub: "242 Nairs are being sent as prisoners. Categorise them according to their social and family status. After honouring them with Islam, sufficient dress materials may be given to the men and their women."

4. Letter dated January 18, 1790, to Syed Abdul Dulai: "With the grace of Prophet Muhammed and Allah, almost all Hindus in Calicut are converted to Islam. Only a few are still not converted on the borders of Cochin State. I am determined to convert them also very soon. I consider this as Jehad to achieve that object."

5. Letter dated January 19, 1790, to Badroos Saman Khan: "Don't you know that I have achieved a great victory recently in Malabar and over 4 lakh Hindus were converted to Islam. I am now determined to march against that 'Cursed Raman Nair' without delay. (Reference is to Rama Varma Raja of Travancore State who was popularly known as Dharma Raja for giving shelter in his state to all those who fled Malabar.)

Thinking that he and his subjects would be soon converted to Islam, I am overjoyed and hence abandoned the idea of returning to Srirangapatanam."

The last two letters quoted above were written after the first major defeat of Tipu Sultan near Alwaye on January 1, 1790. All these letters clearly betray the real character of Tipu Sultan whom a Kerala Muslim historian, Dr. C.K. Kareem, describes as of 'Sufi' traditions! If this is Sufism, what about Koranic Islam?

Read again what Tipu says :-

"Letter dated January 18, 1790, to Syed Abdul Dulai: "With the grace of Prophet Muhammed and Allah, almost all Hindus in Calicut are converted to Islam. Only a few are still not converted on the borders of Cochin State. I am determined to convert them also very soon. I consider this as Jehad to achieve that object.""

THIS IS JEHAD- THE SUPREME "SPIRITUAL" REALITY OF ISLAM AS THE CULT OF BLOOD THIRSTY DEITY - KILLING MUSHRIKS AND FORCING THEM TO ACCEPT THE SLAVERY OF ISLAM.

Re: # 68

"Jahil, neither did Tipu convert anybody"

Why do you have to close your eyes and nose to the sight and the stench of putrefied corpses that emanates from your cult!!!

Why not simply admit it and condemn it?

Why this animal behaviour ??

Yaar Laddu whatever Timor or Tipu did, they missed either converting or beheading your ancestors.

Now come here ... lemme behead you ... shabaash

Re: # 74

My ancestors accepted to die than to submit to the slavery of the blood thirsty deity.
Every hindu would do the same if required- all punjabi hindus are ready to turn into Sikhs and take to the sword if required to protect the dharma in self defence!!

Laddu may i know your sources for all the passages u pasted below?

Most of the sources are already provided in the quotations.
The best way to understand your own history is to read the Namas of all the Moghuls or the works of official historians of the Muslim rulers than blindly accept the false historiography of the Pakistani official historians and the Pak Islamiyat Studies.

Something more about the "peaceful religion" of Islam in action against my idolator hindu forefathers-


http://persian.packhum.org/persian//pf?file=80201013&ct=95

" 11. The Hindus and idol-worshipers had agreed to pay the money for toleration (zar-i zimmiya), and had consented to the poll tax (jizya), in return for which they and their families en­joyed security. These people now erected new idol temples in the city and the environs in opposition to the Law of the Prophet which declares that such temples are not to be tolerated. Under Divine guidance I destroyed these edifices, and I killed those leaders of infidelity who seduced others into error, and the lower orders I subjected to stripes and chastisement, until this abuse was entirely abolished. The following is an instance:—In the village of Malúh there is a tank which they call kund (tank). Here they had built idol-temples, and on certain days the Hindus were accustomed to proceed thither on horseback, and wearing arms. Their women and children also went out in palankíns and carts. There they assembled in thousands and performed idol worship. This abuse had been so overlooked that the bázár people took out there all sorts of provisions, and set up stalls and sold their goods. Some graceless Musulmáns, thinking only of their own gratification, took part in these meetings. When intelli­gence of this came to my ears my religious feelings prompted me at once to put a stop to this scandal and offence to the religion of Islám. On the day of the assembling I went there in person, and I ordered that the leaders of these people and the promoters of this abomination should be put to death. I forbad the in­fliction of any severe punishments on the Hindus in general, but I destroyed their idol temples, and instead thereof raised mosques. I founded two flourishing towns (kasba), one called Tughlikpúr, the other Sálárpúr. Where infidels and idolaters worshiped idols, Musulmáns now, by God's mercy, perform their devotions to the true God. Praises of God and the summons to prayer are now heard there, and that place which was formerly the home of infidels has become the habitation of the faithful, who there repeat their creed and offer up their praises to God.

12. Information was brought to me that some Hindús had erected a new idol-temple in the village of Sálihpúr, and were performing worship to their idol. I sent some persons there to destroy the idol temple, and to put a stop to their pernicious in­citements to error.

13. Some Hindús had erected a new idol-temple in the village of Kohána, and the idolaters used to assemble there and perform their idolatrous rites. These people were seized and brought before me. I ordered that the perverse conduct of the leaders of this wickedness should be publicly proclaimed, and that they should be put to death before the gate of the palace. I also ordered that the infidel books, the idols, and the vessels used in their worship, which had been taken with them, should all be publicly burnt. The others were restrained by threats and punishments, as a warning to all men, that no zimmí could follow such wicked practices in a Musulmán country.

14. It had been the practice in former reigns to use vessels of gold and silver at the royal table, and sword-belts and quivers were ornamented with gold and jewels. I forbad these things, and I ordered the fittings of my arms to be made of bone, and I commanded that only such vessels should be used as are recog­nized by the Law.

15. In former times it had been the custom to wear orna­mented garments, and men received robes as tokens of honour from kings' courts. Figures and devices were painted and dis­played on saddles, bridles, and collars, on censers, on goblets and cups, and flagons, on dishes and ewers, in tents, on curtains and on chairs, and upon all articles and utensils. Under Divine guidance and favour I ordered all pictures and portraits to be removed from these things, and that such articles only should be made as are approved and recognized by the Law. Those pictures and portraits which were painted on the doors and walls of palaces I ordered to be effaced.

16. Formerly the garments of great men were generally made of silk and gold brocades, beautiful but unlawful. Under Divine guidance I ordered that such garments should be worn as are approved by the Law of the Prophet, and that choice should be made of such trimmings of gold brocade, embroidery, or braiding as did not exceed four inches (asábi') in breadth. Whatever was unlawful and forbidden by, or opposed to, the Law was set aside."

Re: # 78

This is what was said in FUTUHÁT-I FÍROZ SHÁHÍ
OF SULTÁN FÍROZ SHÁH :

"The others were restrained by threats and punishments, as a warning to all men, that no zimmí could follow such wicked practices in a Musulmán country."


NO ZIMMI Hindu can practice his religion with momeens around in power!!!

Praise be to Allah who gave us such noble and praiseworthy examples to follow. Ya Allah let there be another Mahmud of Ghazna, Tipu Sultan and all the other mujahid-kings who conquered al-Hind. amen.

EVEN if what laddu says is true--and I generally don't trust people like him who manipulate original muslim sources to their own goal--it still doesn't prove that the VAST MAJORITY of Muslims in India were converted by the superior moral and ethical behaviour (and charismatic miracles) of the Muslim saints a.k.a. Sufis. People such as Hazrat Amir Khusraw and Hazrat Gharib Nawaz. Of the 150 MILLION plus Musulmans of India, what percentage of their ancestors were 'forcibly' converted? Less than 1% I believe.

Also, if people commit treason in any state they will be dealt with harshly.

Yes, Mahmud conquered lands but the Muslims were always a minority although a dominant one. They could have done a Hitler and wiped out Hindus from India but they didn't because Islam does not allow it. You pay the jizya and you'll have full rights.

Also most Muslim conquerors only conquered mostly northern India (now Pakistan); except for the great saint-Emperor Aurangzeb who also conquered Southernmost India but are you honestly saying that it was he who is responsible for the tens of millions of Muslims in southern India? Be real.
It was the sufi saints again. Or take Malaysia and Indonesia. Which Muslim armies went there?

This is all Hindu-fascist RSS propaganda.

But thanks laddu for providing sources--even if you're lying--the reading of which gladdened my heart.

:-)

Re: # 80

sorry should have said,"it still doesn't DISPROVE that the VAST MAJORITY of Muslims in India were converted by the superior moral and ethical behaviour (and charismatic miracles) of the Muslim saints a.k.a. Sufis.

i guess your ancestors were a bunch of pussies...?

...or isn't it more noble to believe that they were convinced by the superiority of the islamic way of life and thus converted. after all, low class hindus still convert to islam in their droves to this day since their own dharam condemns to life as fifth-class citizens and untouchables.

think about it.
and you can still convert you know. just go to the darbar of shaikh salim chishti and ask the saint to pray for your guidance. if you're sincere you will be guided to islam insha Allah. read a translation of the koran from cover to cover.
(and before you ask i have already READ the hindu texts).

learn from the example of the blessed Dillu Ram.

"every hindu would do the same"--what b.s.! if that was the case there'd be no muslims in india at all!

Re: # 84

Naqshbandi Sahib:

"...(and before you ask i have already READ the hindu texts)..."

Will you be willing to discuss your read on Geeta here, if you have already read it?

Naqshbandi Sahib:

If you can convert Islamic extremist to your message of peace, you will do a great service to humanity.

Naqshbandiji,

Unfortunately for you, I think zamana of Dillu Ram
Kausaris in Hindustan has been coming to an end
and is almost over, IMHO.
All good things must come to and end, I guess.
For further pleasures, I guess you will have to
rely on the past, present and future will not bring
that kind of joy from Hindustan any more, again IMHO.

sigh

Laddu your sources are as dubious as you, nobody in his rational mind would accept Amir Khusrau (a virtual kafir) as implementing forced conversions or for that matter Tipu.

Tu apni nafrat mein sathiyagaya hai bhai

now check out this authentic news source Indias leading magazine, which describes what repression u hindus have unleashed on muslims today forget about a thousand years ago, do u hindus have any shame?

but eventually this fire that you are using to burn kashmiri muslims will lead to a fire all over india betwen muslims and hindus, inshallah.



OUTLOOK

Web| Oct 04, 2007

Counterpoint

Azadi: Theirs And Ours

By the logic of the Indian state, India is free and Kashmir is a part of India, ergo, Kashmir too, must be free. But Sanjay Kak’s documentary provides visual attestation for something diametrically opposed to this logic: the reality of occupation.

ANANYA VAJPEYI
Sanjay Kak’s new documentary Jashn-e-Azadi (“How we celebrate freedom”) is aimed primarily at an Indian audience. This two-part film, 138 min long, explores what Kak calls the “sentiment”, namely “azadi” (literally “freedom”) driving the conflict in the India controlled part of Kashmir for the past 18 years. This sentiment is inchoate: it does not have a unified movement, a symbol, a flag, a map, a slogan, a leader or any one party associated with it. Sometimes it means full territorial independence, and sometimes it means other things. Yet it is real, with a reality that neither outright repression nor fitful persuasion from India has managed to dissipate for almost two decades. Howsoever unclear its political shape, Kashmiris know the emotional charge of azadi, its ability to keep alive in every Kashmiri heart a sense of struggle, of dissent, of hope. It is for Indians who do not know about this sentiment, or do not know how to react to it, that Kak has made his difficult, powerful film. And it is with Indian audiences that Kak has already had, and is likely to continue having, the most heated debate.

Between 1989 and 2007, nearly 100,000 people--soldiers and civilians, armed militants and unarmed citizens, Kashmiris and non-Kashmiris--lost their lives to the violence in Kashmir. 700,000 Indian military and paramilitary troops are stationed there, the largest such armed presence in what is supposedly peace time, anywhere in the world. Both residents of and visitors to Kashmir in recent years already know what Kak’s film brings home to the viewer: how thoroughly militarized the Valley is, criss-crossed by barbed wire, littered with bunkers and sand-bags, dotted with men in uniform carrying guns, its roads bearing an unending stream of armoured vehicles up and down a landscape that used to be called, echoing the words of the Mughal Emperor Jehangir, Paradise on earth. Other places so mangled by a security apparatus as to make it impossible for life to proceed normally immediately come to mind: occupied Palestine, occupied Iraq.

Locals, especially young men, must produce identification at all the check-posts that punctuate the land, or during sudden and frequent operations described by the dreaded words “crackdown” and “cordon and search”. Kak’s camera shows us that even the most ordinary attempt to cross the city of Srinagar, or travel from one village to another is fraught with these security checks, as though the entire Valley were a gigantic airport terminal and every man were a threat to every other. As soldiers insultingly frisk folks for walking about in their own places, the expressions in their eyes--anger, fear, resignation, frustration, irritation, or just plain embarrassment--say it all. In one scene men are lined up, and some of them get their clothes pulled and their faces slapped while they are being searched. Somewhere beneath all these daily humiliations burns the unnamed sentiment: azadi.

One reason that there is no Indian tolerance for this word in the context of Kashmir is that the desire for “freedom” immediately implies that its opposite is the case: Kashmir is not free. By the logic of the Indian state, India is free and Kashmir is a part of India, ergo, Kashmir too, must be free. But Kak’s images provide visual attestation for something diametrically opposed to this logic: the reality of occupation. Kashmir is occupied by Indian troops, somewhat like Palestine is by Israeli troops, and Iraq is by American and coalition troops. But wait, objects the Indian viewer.Palestinians are Muslims and Israelis are Jews; Iraqis are Iraqis and Americans are Americans--how are their dynamics comparable to the situation in Kashmir? Indians and Kashmiris are all Indian; Muslims and non-Muslims in Kashmir (or anywhere in India) are all Indian. Neither the criterion of nationality nor the criterion of religion is applicable to explain what it is that puts Indian troops and Kashmiri citizens on either side of a line of hostility. How can we speak of an “occupation” when there are no enemies, no foreigners and no outsiders in the picture at all? And if occupation makes no sense, then how can azadi make any sense?

Kak explained to an audience at a recent screening of his film in Boston (23/09) that he could only begin to approach the subject of his film, azadi, after he had made it past three barriers to understanding that stand in the way of an Indian mind trying to grasp what is going on in Kashmir. The first of these is secularism. Since India is a secular country, most Indians do not even begin to see how unrest in any part of the country could be explained using religion--that too what is, in the larger picture, a minority religion--as a valid ground for the political self-definition and self-determination of a community. The Valley of Kashmir is 95% Muslim. Does this mean that Kashmiris get to have their own nation? For most Indians, the answer is simply: No. Kashmiri Muslims are no more entitled to a separate nation than were the Sikhs who supported the idea of Khalistan in the 1980s. Such claims replay, for Indians, the worst memories of Partition in 1947, and bring back the ghost of Jinnah’s two-nation theory to haunt India’s secular polity and to threaten it from within.

The second barrier to understanding, related to the struggle over secularism, is the flight of the Pandits, Kashmir’s erstwhile 4% Hindu minority community, following violent incidents in 1990. 160,000 Pandits fled the Valley in that year’s exodus, leaving behind homes, lands and jobs they have yet to recover. Today the Pandits live, if not in Indian and foreign cities, then in refugee settlements that have become semi-permanent, most notably in Jammu and Delhi. For Indians, even if they do little or nothing to rehabilitate Pandits into the Indian mainstream, the persecution of the Pandits at the hands of their fellow-Kashmiris, following the fault-lines of religious difference and the minority-majority divide, is a deeply alienating feature of Kashmir’s conflict. Kashmir’s Muslim leadership has consistently expressed regret for what happened to the Pandits in the first phase of the struggle for azadi, but it has not, on the other hand, made any serious effort to bring back the exiled Hindus either. In failing to ensure the safety of the Pandits, Kashmir has lost a vital connection with the Indian state--and, potentially, a source of legitimacy for its claim to an exceptional status as a sovereign entity.

The third major obstruction to India taking a sympathetic view of Kashmir is the problem of trans-national jihad. Throughout the 1990s, Kashmir’s indigenous movements for azadi have received varying degrees of support, in the form of funds, arms, fighting men, and ideological solidarity, not only from the government of Pakistan, but also from Islamist forces all across Central Asia and the Middle East. The reality of Pakistani support, and the presence of foreign fighters, from an Indian perspective, damages the claim for azadi beyond repair.

Kashmiri exceptionalism in fact has an old history.Yet even if we do not want to go as far back as pre-modern and colonial times, then at the very least right from 1947, Kashmir has never really broken away completely like the parts of British India that became Pakistan, nor has it assimilated properly, like the other elements that formed the Indian republic. The status of Kashmir has always been uncertain, in free India. But with the involvement of pan-Asian or global Islamist players, starting with Pakistan but by no means limited to it, the past gives way to the present.

India no longer deals with Kashmir as though it were still the place that was ruled by a Hindu king until 1947 and never fully came on board the Indian nation in the subsequent 50 years. It now looks upon Kashmir as the Indian end of the burning swath of Islamist insurgency that engulfs most of the region. In quelling azadi the Indian state sees itself as engaged in putting out the much larger fires of jihad that have breached the walls of the nation and entered into its most inflammable--because Muslim-majority--section.

Secularism, the Pandits and jihad are all very real impediments to India actually being able to see what is equally real, namely, the Kashmiri longing for azadi. Kak explained to his viewers that to be able to portray azadi from the inside, he had to get through and past these barriers, to the place where Kashmiris inhabit their peculiar and tragic combination of resistance and vulnerability, their dream of a separate identity and their confrontation with an overwhelmingly powerful adversary. Their misery is palpable but they have yet to find a politics adequate to transform dissatisfaction into independence. Kashmiris do not agree on a singular meaning of the word “azadi”. Meanwhile, in the face of brute oppression, they do not fully fight back, but they do not submit either.

Kak subtly captures their strangeness as a people: they recount how they lost sons and husbands to a random, ubiquitous and unforgiving violence, and, in the midst of gruesome narrations, offer the questioner tea. They walk among the dead, through lots covered with marked and unmarked graves, speaking of the departed in a weird idiom that mixes the language of martyrdom with the everydayness of life that must continue. Their poets, whether Muslim or Pandit, compose verses that in Kashmiri, Urdu or English carry the same unmistakable note of pain, even as they mirror a landscape of mountain lakes, blooming flowers and delicately-hued skies. (A few years ago Amar Kanwar’s documentary Night of Prophecy also brought to Indian audiences the same poignancy of poetry written by Kashmiris that confronts torture, disappearance and death in a place of unearthly natural beauty). Their traditional entertainers, village bards and clowns, called “Pather Bhand”, remember their patron, the medieval pir (Sufi saint) Zain ul Abidin, or Zain Shah, and tell tales of war and destitution with a mischievous light-heartedness that makes you cry instead of making you laugh. Women cover their heads but look at the camera with unnerving directness, insouciant, beleaguered but never submissive. These are a wry people, part defeated, part unconquerable.

Their breathtakingly beautiful land stands at the crossroads of East Asian, Central Asian and South Asian cultures. For centuries, different races, religions and ethnicities have trampled through Kashmir, subduing its people on their way. But the Kashmiri language bears little relationship to any other languages of Persia, India, Afghanistan, Tibet or China, its nearest neighbours.Kashmir has always kept its head down as the winds of history have blown over and across the mountains, turned inward in an isolation that feeds the desire for azadi but does not provide the political wherewithal, the canniness, to carve out a separate nation in a world where might makes right.

Here the Indian Army arrives, one Indian soldier to every 10 Kashmiris. Here the Indian tourists arrive, as Kak shows us, sledding in snowy Gulmarg, dressing up in “native” costume to have photographs taken in the Mughal Gardens of Srinagar, calling blood-spattered Kashmir a veritable Paradise. Here the sadhus in saffron robes arrive, on their way to the holy shrine at Amarnath, on their annual pilgrimage, invoking, in the same breath, the Hindu god Shiva and the Indian flag, the “tiranga” (“tri-colour”). You cannot take away what is ours, say these people. Ah, but you cannot keep what was never yours, either. India for Indians; Kashmir for Kashmiris: this is the fugitive logic that the filmmaker is seeking to make explicit.

Kak has set himself a nearly impossible task. He must take Indians with him, on his difficult journey, past their prejudices, past their suspicions, past their very real fears, into the nightmarish world of Kashmiri citizens, torn apart between the militants and the military, stuck with the after-effects of bombings, mine-blasts, crackdowns, arrests, encounter killings and disappearances that have gone on for nearly two decades without pause.

I became interested in Kashmir at the same time, for the same reason, that Kak began his investigations: the trial of S.A.R. Geelani, accused and later acquitted in the December 13, 2001 Parliament Attack case. In 2005 I wrote a couple of articles about Geelani, a Kashmiri professor of Arabic and Persian Literature at Delhi University, for this and other Indian publications. These earned me denouncements as anti-national, self-hating, anti-Hindu, pro- Pakistani, crypto-Muslim, etc. One letter to the editor even called me a terrorist! Kak has already had a taste of this reaction since the release of Jashn-e-Azadi in March, and must expect more of it to be coming his way in the next few months, as his film is shown widely in India and abroad. In fact, he is sure to get more flak that I ever got, given he is a Kashmiri Pandit.

Aggressively Hindu nationalist, right-wing Pandit groups find Kak’s empathy for Kashmiri Muslim positions infuriating, a “betrayal” that enrages them much more than that of a merely (apparently) Hindu--non-Pandit--sympathizer like myself. But like Israeli refuseniks, there is reason to believe that now India too has its own nay-sayers, who cannot condone the presence of the Indian armed forces in Kashmir or the continued refusal of the Indian state to engage with Kashmiris on the question of azadi. Kak himself makes the comparison to Palestine by calling the azadi movement of the early 90s “Kashmir’s Intifada”.

What allows someone like me--born, raised and educated in India, secular, committed to the longevity and flourishing of the Indian nation in every sense--to get, as it were, the meaning, the reality, and the validity, of Kashmir’s agonized search for azadi? Why do I not want my army to take or keep Kashmir by force, or my fellow-citizens to enjoy their annual vacations as unthinking, insensitive tourists, winter or summer? Why do abandoned Pandit homesteads affect me as much as charred Muslim houses, and why do I think that neither will be rebuilt and re-inhabited, nor will they be full of life as they once were, unless first and foremost, the military bunkers are taken down?

The answer comes from my own history, the history of India.If ever there was a people who ought to know what azadi is, and to value it, it is Indians. 60 years ago India attained its own azadi, long sought, hard fought, and bought at the price of a terrible, irreparable Partition. My parents were born in pre-Independence India, and to them and those of their generation, it is possible to recall a time before azadi.

Kak’s film incorporates video footage from the early 1990s, taken from sources he either cannot or will not reveal. In those images of Kashmiris protesting en masse on the streets of Srinagar, funeral processions of popular leaders, women lamenting the dead as martyrs in the path of azadi, terrorist training camps, the statements of torture victims about to breathe their last and BSF operations ending in the surrender of militants, the seething passions of nationalism come right at you from the screen, leaping from their context in Kashmir and connecting back to the mass movements of India’s long struggle against British colonialism, from 1857 to 1947. No Indian viewer, in those moments of collective and euphoric protest against oppression, could fail to be moved, or to be reminded of how it was that we came to have something close to every Indian heart: our political freedom, our status as an independent nation, in charge of our own destiny.

The irony is that azadi is not something we do not and cannot ever understand, but that it is something we know all about, intimately, from our own history. What frightens us is not the alien nature of the sentiment in every Kashmiri breast: what frightens is its familiarity, its echo of our own desire for nationhood that found its voice, albeit after great bloodshed, six decades ago.

The British and French invented modern democracy at home, but colonized the rest of the world. The Jews suffered the Holocaust, but Israel brutalizes Palestine. India blazed the way for the decolonization of dozens of Asian and African countries, and established itself as the world’s largest democracy, yet it turns away from Kashmir and its quest for freedom, and worse, goes all out to crush the will of the Kashmiri people. Indians with a conscience--and perhaps Kak’s film will help sensitize and educate many more, especially the young--ought not stand for this desecration of the very ground upon which our nationality rests. After all, we learnt two words together--“azadi” and “swaraj”, freedom and self-rule--and on these foundations was our nation built.

We are a people who barely two generations ago not only fought for our own freedom--our leaders, Gandhi, Nehru, Ambedkar, and so many others, taught the whole of the colonized world how to speak the language of self-respect and sovereignty. We of all people should strive for a time when it will become possible for a Kashmiri to offer a visitor a cup of tea without rancour or irony, as a simple uncomplicated expression of the hospitality that comes naturally to those who belong to this culture. We should join the Kashmiris in their search for a city animated by commerce and conversation, not haunted by the ghosts of the dead and the fled. We should support them, whether they be Muslims or Hindus, in turning their grief, so visible in Kak’s courageous work of witnessing, into a genuine “jashn”, a celebration, of a freedom that has been too long in the coming.

Anything less would make us lesser Indians.

borivili_express & laddu,
While arguing about different views of Tipu Sultan, I would say that he lies somewhere in between. He must have killed, pillaged and converted hindus and he also had hindus at important position of ministers and patronised temples.
The biggest problem is one tries to potray him as either tolerant or bigot. There are certain actions that will easily potray him as bigot while there are other actions that will potray him as tolerant. The issue is that we (Indians) are not taught history as it happened. We are told by government that the real history would cause chasm between comunities but the not teaching the real history is main cause of the differences amoung different communities. We can learn a lot from history if it is taught correctly rather than spending time to decide whose history is correct.

I would give laddu and mohar the benefit of doubt if they said timur did forceable conversions but i need to verify from more relaible sources than the dubious websites laddu is pulling out for amir khusro and tipu murdering and converting