Good on ya Bangladesh!

#15 majumdar: On the moral aspects, I think the real injusties done in 1971 were the killings of innocent people - i.e. not one individual was tried for war crimes in either Pakistan or in Bangladesh, not one cold blooded murderer brought to justice. And atrocities were committed on both sides as I can say first hand - the principal of Chittagong Public School was a family friend of ours and he was killed in cold blood by mukti bahini e.g. I also know many Bangladeshis who never wanted separation and who would, if they could, have moved to Pakistan as well. No one considers Pakistan morally bound to give them citizenship.

As far as I can tell (and I am no apologist for any Pakistani government), it was for Bangladesh to do the morally correct thing which it never did until now. Like I mentioned, this would have been to bring to justice those among the bihari community it considered as having committed war crimes, and to permit the rest of the community to full citizenship rights like all other individuals domiciled in former east pakistan province regardless of ethnicity. That is why I dont see any reason to applaud the bangladesh government for doing what it should have done 36 years ago as a moral as well as de facto legal responsibility.

harish_hyd: If by "fought for Pakistan" you mean the paramilitaries (urdu-speaking and islamic parties) that fought alongside the pakistan army, then remember that the Pakistani army was headed for POW camps in India, and was hardly in a position to take them anywhere with them. Also, talking of morality, these paramilitaries did some of the worst atrocities on civilians.

So, it is easy in a vacuum to say what is morally right - but look at the realities and a different picture emerges.

#18 by tahmed32

....then remember that the Pakistani army was headed for POW camps in India, and was hardly in a position to take them anywhere with them.

tahmed32 Sahib, I'm not talking about the time in the immediate aftermath of 1971, but the almost 3 decades since then. The Paki Armymen in the PoW camps were repatriated (and some like Tikka Khan went on to preside over more atrocities in Balochistan) without ever being questioned about their role in the butchering of Bengalis, yet the Biharis found no forgiving godfathers in West Pakistan.

Also, talking of morality, these paramilitaries did some of the worst atrocities on civilians.

And what about the atrocities committed by the Pakistani Army? Were they any less than those committed by these Biharis? Why hold the Paki Army to a different standard from the one applied to these folks?

#19 harish_hyd: I have already noted that Pakistan should have investigated and tried those charged with war crimes, so you dont need to convince me on this point. As for what happened in the three decades - like I said, legally and morally it was for bangladesh government to have done what it has done now (i.e. give citizenship to individuals domiciled in former east pakistan, regardless of ethnicity). So ask the bangladesh government why it took them so long to do what it finally did now.

harish_hyd: I have to go now, and so may not respond to anything you write right away. Have a good day.

Tahmed sahib,

(On the moral aspects, I think the real injusties done in 1971 were the killings of innocent people)

Yes. And injustice includes killing of Urdu speaking non combatants by Mukti Bahini/general as much as Bangla speaking citizens of Pak by Army/Irregulars. And both sets of perpetrators should have been brought to justice.

(I also know many Bangladeshis who never wanted separation and who would, if they could, have moved to Pakistan as well. No one considers Pakistan morally bound to give them citizenship.)

Now it is for Pakistanis to decide whether they have a moral duty to give citizenship or not. In any case Bengali speaking citizens of B'desh have been accepted as Bdesh citizens so at least these guys have not been left high and dry unlike "stranded Pakistanis" who were until recently.

Regards

Ref Mullah32 #13

In your next incarnation as caterpillar sh!t, you would be better off than your current incarnation as cockroach sh!t.

I just got a thought. does this mean Pakistan is not about islam? If so, should not they accept any Muslim who wants to be a citizen of pakistan? thinking further, are people in Azad Kashmir still pakistani? I am not sure whether they fought with pakistan army or indian army. I guess the majority are muslims.

er, good one Bangladesh !!!
here thanks to Punjabigardi, the Ponjabi's feels that Pakistan is Punjabistan and no one else belongs there.
MQM tried very hard to bring the Beharis back but apart from 1200 off families the Punjabis never gave the go-ahead.

tahmed,

as you continue calling me names, read this from a rare fellow pakistani.

from jang opinion column of today

As a general rule, Pakistanis are not happy with opinions that differ from their own. And we are unable to convey our dissatisfaction in a parliamentary, professional manner. Our Achilles' heel is to confuse the other person's difference of opinion as a personal attack on us. And, God help us, we launch into the greatest ad hominem attack there can be. Suddenly, the discussion is gone, but parents and ancestors have been exhumed and reburied. Maternal raising of children is criticised and, Lord help me, one's opponent in the argument is now either illegitimate or spreading his seed far and wide! Amazingly, one would think that the fair sex would not indulge in this Internet street-like behaviour. But alas, anger really produces a brief psychosis, and words burn my computer screen as they do the heart.

People form informal alliances based on these discussions, for it is hard to forget that insult on your laptop and the comfort that came from another friend right after. We forget the argument and begin to concentrate on personalities.

There is somethinmg no pakistani wants to talk about.

There are more than a million bangladeshis in pakistan who were working in pakistan at the time of war, and have not been given citizenship by the pakistanis.

These are the bengali muslims of pakistan, who cannot be muslims according to tahmed definition, not fair, period.

This is teh tragedy of pakistan, there is YLh whose only claim to fame is that his ancestry can be traced to saudi.
The man is supposed to be educated, and all that he is proud of is his blood line.

If ylj is the educated, even allah cannot save the illiterate

I agree 100% with jayp on this one!

Tahmed sahib,

If what Jayp has written "There are more than a million bangladeshis in pakistan who were working in pakistan at the time of war, and have not been given citizenship by the Pakistanis" is true, then this is a serious charge against the GoP.

Jayp,

The aforesaid charges that you have raised are serious enuff. But the question is have they been staying there since 1971 and have they ACTUALLY requested for a Pak citizenship. In case they haven't asked for Paki citizenship then one can't blame the GoP for it.

Regards

Re: # 29,
according at the time of fall of Dhaka, virtually all the Bangali's working in West Pakistan were Pakistani Nationals it was illegal migration from Bangladesh afterwards.

#27 Posted by jayp

“There are more than a million bangladeshis in pakistan who were working in pakistan at the time of war, and have not been given citizenship by the pakistanis.”

You are really not worth my time but #28 Posted by IB agreeing with you made me check your post.
IB,

All Bengalis had Pakistani citizenship whether they lived in Pakistan before or after 1971. So there was no need to give them citizenship again. Benaglis living in Bangladesh chose to get a new citizenship of Bangladesh. There was no need to give citizenship (in this case Bengalis in West Pakistan) to people who already had it in Pakistan.
There are tons of Bengalis in Karachi now that are Pakistani citizens. Gulshan ara syed went back to Bangldesh and came back with her husband and now lives in Isloo with her Husband Shoukat (a friend of mine) and they both have Pakistani citizenship. Shabnum and her husband Robin Ghosh lived in Pakistan long after 1971 and both had Pakistani citizenship.

Getting Pakistani citizenship is the easiest thing. All you got to do is get an ID card (it costs money, grease the palm of the ID clerks) and apply for the Passport. Lots of Bengalis who came to Karachi long after 1971 for jobs hold Pakistani ID cards and can get the Passport.

I just can’t believe that you don’t have basic information about Pakistan and pretend to be some IB officer.

#29 Posted by majumdar

Dada,
It seems to me that you are losing it too. Put you thinking hat on before posting!