The Melting Pot

Interesting. Why is it always the periphery more worried/concerned? Nowhere it is about the marrying couple, but always about the Parents, the Siblings, the Relative, the Society??? Hello! Unlike in South Asia, the society in the US revolves around and individual and not the other way around. Those involved in inter-racial relationships do not really give a truck about what others around them feel or think about their unions. On a side note, my son’s college counselor told me today that checking off “bi-racial” is not going to help my son in admissions process unless he is part Black, Hispanic, or Native American. So there. Damn if you do and damn if you do it more.

I am not sure if the arrival of south asians cna be attributed to the civil rights struggle but MLK certainly took his approach from one South Asian (hint: not Jinnah..otherwise all blacks in america would be in Liberia)..

Kul, people do care..there is nothing wrong with telling the family, friends, etc to fk off....I think people should do that even if they are not married to whitey or blackie.. :-)

periphery is important kulleee jee, it defines an extended family and community.

Unfortunately, most often, it is not supportive, and one has to sever ties with it to live the life they want.
with much respect,
thinking storm

Mr. Haroon,

I think you raise some interesting questions in terms of the double standards we apply to gender in the South Asian American community.

I would go even further and point out that a Pakistani/Indian' groom actual religious beliefs are considered irrelevant during a marriage within the Muslim community. For example, it is quite acceptable for the groom to be an atheist, an agnostic, a closet Buddhist/Hindu/Yoruba priest-the ceremony and marriage will go on and everyone will turn a blind eye. He will be spoken of affectionately by relatives and no one will in any real way care.

A South Asian Muslim/Hindu/Christian can have dated every strip worker in Las Vegas, drunken enough to make Pete Doherty look like a member of AA, but on the day of his shadi, he is everyone's golden ganesh boy, surrounded in his halo/wreath of roses. He can beat his wife, be a complete bigot, qualify as a bipolar psychotic, but at least he's one of ours.

So one thing I will point out is that it is becoming increasingly clear that the white boys that the daughters of our community are beginning to marry care about their fiancees enough to convert and at least follow traditions, norms and values of familial respect that a number of desi men are too spoiled to. The same people who ask if the gora groom has converted like it less when said gora groom treats the bride and her fam with respect, love and dignity. Sadly, I know that in some fams, marriage to a gora means not excommunication, but that the daughter will not have to put up with the nonsense of an abusive desi husband.

I wish it were different, but this aspect cannot be ignored.

M/sNimbu
America still will not choose 'Nice Little Well Behaved' black or Asian boy (until they are Mr.Tibbs with above average education )OVER there own white boy.

Ejaz, for a colonized people in an imperialist world, marrying into the race that you secretly hate is difficult. I think the discomfort is common in both goras and desis. And the difference in how the issue is stated is linguistic rather than an issue about double standards. For desis everything is expressed in terms of religious identity--even racism. It is a great achievement of the post modern world, that they have unique words to describe racism. However, naming the beast doesnt mean that there is no racism here, quite contrary, there is a lot of racism everywhere.

The great melting pot has quite a few rocks in it. Instead of turning up the heat to melt us all, perhaps the melting pot should pick the rocks out. By rocks I mean the loss of identity that people suffer in the post modern world. The fear of becoming something unrecognizable, the loss of languages, ethnicities, the fact that everything western is mainstream and everything not western is termed ethnic. The fact that the language of colonized people is not their own, that their way is seen as fundamentally flawed and that is justified as a sort of survival of the fittest rather than the brutal annhilation of a civlization which is what it is.

I don't think desis are that bad or 'abusive'. That characteristic is common across race. Date a gora who drinks and watch what he is capable of. Or not only that watch the kind of movies that make him laugh and then wonder what the heck (e.g., Borat). Or hey, haven't you heard the stories of the gora who after 10 years and a kid, turns around and says I am bored, i want a divorce. Somehow abandoning a marriage and kids for 'boredom' isnt that common (yet) among the desis.

Yes, the discourse is crude rather than real. That sadly it is expressed as 'Muslim' vs. The world rather than, 'O dear, this means that in the future you won't even know what your ancestors were about, that your children will not speak their native tongue, and that though you have a good companion, it means that the very purpose of marriage to perpetuate children and a way of life is negated by this marriage.' And yes, we must grin and bear it, because this is how it is going to be in a homogenous world where we each are just cogs in a machine owned by someone else. That being ethnic is the fashion statement of a privileged few while the rest of us live it out in grey and blue. Today it is you, tomorrow it will be my children. That I am disturbed is true, but I have no platform to talk about my worry and so I must talk to you in terms that you find distasteful, namely, 'Is he Muslim?'

Thanks y'all for your comments.

I think there is an implicit tradeoff involved when one immigrates to America: Your kids (and their kids) will be very different from yourself and your parents. In all likelihood, they will live life more fully, be more open to new ideas, and explore new things. And inevitably they will make some decisions that folks like us may find somewhat upsetting. In the end one has to accept that this is their life and they (when they blossom into competent, rational adults) will seek to maximize their happiness.

Which, if you think about it, is not a bad tradeoff.

Ejaz

On another note, since I am impressed by the intellectual prowess of these interactors, let me make a shameless plug for the best book I have read this year. It is titled "The Americanization of Benjamin Franklin", by Gordon Wood. This is a must-read for those of you who have always wondered what made Ben Franklin tick but were too afraid to ask.

Saima,

I dont think that desi men are more abusive per se than any other racial/ethnic group of men-however I do think that we as a community enable, excuse, rationalize and deny the abuse -and it does exist in SA American communities- and call it "our culture".

Re: # 6

There is a very interesting point here-and that is the privillege involved in claiming an "authentic" Muslim identity. On UP, I asked why Muslim interfaith marriages among Indo-Carribean populations was never included in "our" discussion of Muslim/subcontinent marriages. Have the exigencies of class, labor and diaspora made Indo-Caribbean Muslims no longer pukka Muslims in the eyes of the Institutional Ummah?

Re: # 5

what a heartbreaking story-one i'm sure abusive husbands tell their wives as they are beating them.

So, Ejaz, was he Muslim or not?? Thanks for that rarity, a readbale article on chowk.

This is for ppl who claim to be muslims...monkey-worhsippers n bhangis (i say it with love) ill smack u later for now just whither away.

Could any of you einsteins explain to me like i am a 2 yr old..what does being muslim mean 2 ya? Are you muslim just because you were unfortunate enough to be not born in Champoo-lal pujari's house or do you actually give a shit about what God and his messenger asks us to do. I am not goin to get in to a debate whether its an injunction from God that muslim women shouldnt marry non-muslims and even muslim men r asked to prefer women of faith even if they are poor, ugly over good looking non-muslims. Whether you believe in it or not my question is that do you believe that you actually will stand in front of the creator himself and there will be an interview?

What will the creator be interviewing over....i dunno maybe he'll ask about daily prayers, fasting, dealings w/ human beings etc. ...do you brain-surgeons believe in all-0-that or is it just something ur crazzy old dada jaan told u or maybe he didnt...n thats what the problem is.

Never the less i really want to know from 'enlightened moderates' what is your theory about here-after..is there sucha thing as heaven and hell.....n who would be going there...if in fact God did ask us thru his messanger to act in a certain manner n not sleep around n drink n cheat than dont u think that its rather stupid to gratify ourselves in this mere 70 yr life at the expense of a life that will be forever...off course if you believe in that kindda thing...if u dont than party on biatchess

Mixed marriages are on the rise in UK, but Pakistanis are lagging behind in this field.
There has been number of honour killings amongst the Pakistani community, so I think for this reason girls have to be very careful who they saddle up with. There are some brave Pakistani girls who defy their parents and marry outside the community.

Some Sikhs are just as conservative with regard to their daughters marrying outside the community, they formed a vigilante group in Birmingham the SHER-E-PANJAB group to protect the honour of Sikh girls from muslim boys.

Re: # 13

And who gave you the chawkidar's keys to the gates of heaven?

neembu...no one did...r u capable of understanding english? i want to know ur understanding....i m not juding ...i m just saying what is that u believe Allah swt wants us to do...other than making a fool of urself 24-7