Musharraf’s New Ordinance Hoopla

#117 Posted by bulleya,

How come no one has taken into account NS return after Eid? It is already agreed as per reports.

NS still has indisputably the top mandate in Punjab, and can easily build back the same as before in other provinces. He has a lot of principled politicians tilting on his side who will switch if he has a credible go at power in the center.

if the three time pm limit holds good, then who will be the next pm........

hmmmm.....a close friend told me that the isi plans the elections by first establishing the people the coas wants elected, and then working backwards....

...based on this, and based on the current international situation, musharraf would want a pml(q) and ppp coalition, with pm from either party.....maybe from ppp to keep bb quite and the ppp jiyalas in line......

he was ready to do this, after the coup also, provided the pm was not benazir.....

.......so musharraf president, some weak guy from ppp nominated by bb (amin fahim probably) as the prime minister......chaudhries being assured that they will rule punjab, which is what they are interested in.......mqm rules sind with a ppp alliance.......

baluchistan and nwfp goes to the maulvis again, to ensure americans remain in line......

.....the new coas remains loyal to the corps (pun intended) to musharraf......who ensures the army keeps its business deals......

.......shaukut aziz remains the finance minister (which is a portfolio he still holds), and sheikh rashid becomes the information minister, where he will do an excellent job......

five years later, bb and ns realize what a blunder they have made by not remaining united.......

ferozk iLog,

I think it is quite tragic and in very bad taste to have reduced these profound lyrics to a parody of Pakistan politics.

Regards

Ch. Shujaat has spilled the beans today saying the NRO was just a 'syasi chaal' to divide the opposition - further clarifying if the opposition had been united, there would have been a real threat to legitimacy.

Stupid BB has fallen for it again thinking that the generals would actually go to bed with her ... no way.

So it appears she won't be the next premier after all!

Re: # 111
JUI (F) Fazul Rehman father was a Chief Minister, then we have Mini-Me of Maulana Noorani and ofcourse the daughter-father alliance in shape of Jamat-e-Isalami and Sexy Sam’s (Samiullah’s party) who’s son is a MNA himself. We all know what happened during the Senate Elections – where MMA fetched Rs.5cr to Rs.11 cr to nominate a Senator and Feroz thinks Religious Party’s are Democratic?

Re: HP # 71

HP, thanks for the reminder, but I am aware that the first step towards democracy in Pakistan will be a power sharing arrangement between the military and the civilians.

This, incidently, is also the well trodden historic step too.

The elections are dead issue to me, but what grates me is the NRO. It is a trap and it is not even really meant to be an effort at reconciliation. It will lapse like all ordinances in about 4 months months until the next parliament debates it, which seems unlikely. The election schedule has not been announced and when it is, it will be followed by an interim government. The interim government may last 2-3 months and by the time the elections are held and new parliament is sworn in, the NRO will be mooted due to time already elapsed.

Given that, there is no real reconciliation offered and Benazir Bhutto was smart to realize this and in fact, may not even come back to Pakistan. She will not want to be in Pakistan when the NRO vaporizes and be held accountable. In fact the reconciliation and the amensty offered is only for 4 months - October 5, 2007 to February 5, 2008.

I agree, there is too much distraught over this ordinance. I will add another wager to the game; I think that people will fondly remember Musharraf and his times, when he is gone. We, natives, are a strange lot...either we at someone's throat or at their feet and/or either we are insulting them or wishing them well, but we can never be never moderate in our views. lol

Ciao

Jayp,

If this is what you do for a living, then one can be sure you are not making much head way in life.. because your paki-bashing is so obviously stupid and idiotic, that it fails to register as anything but the rant of stupid and idiotic person.

So tell us the truth... what did that Pakistani do to you which scalded you so?

re: bulleya # 70

This must have been a few years ago. I was having lunch with an American, who worked for an NGO in the Far East and was by all the appearances of his "cover", a CIA man...

The talk was political and then it turned "political" and he asked me, which was the most democratic party in Pakistan and I said the religious ones. Reply: I thought so.

You will have no arguments on this issue. The religious parties have a clearly defined procedure for electing their leaderships and have periodic elections, which is absent from the so-called champions of democracy; the secular parties of Pakistan.

Bulleya, we will know of the corruption cases after the MMA leaves power in Baluchuistan and NWFP, but stories about them are legend. Corruption in this sense does not mean money only.

Ciao

zeemax: i am not ranting and raving!! i am merely finding excuses not to do what i should be doing (and discussing the Pakistani political circus is definitely not it). ;-)

IB #103: so you say anyone who holds a government responsible for protecting citizens from vigilantes (as i mentioned musharraf failed to do until told to get his act together by the chinese goverment) should see a shrink?

if the world followed your instructions, americans, indians, europeans, japanese, chinese - indeed the entire world other than musharraf and his mqm supporters would be lining up to see the shrink.

b. economic policies - you have ignored what I wrote about your claims about musharraf's economic policies, and gone off on a tangent on the reasons for poverty.

c. On who benefits from military dictatorship - you have again ignored my point about us "evil panjabis" being the beneficiaries from military dictatorship however way you cut it, and stick you to the mqm party line simply because this military dicatorship has an urdu-speaking face. like someone said, there is a sucker born every minute.

d. you again ignored what i wrote - roads and bridges dont make cities. a cosmopolitan and peaceful culture does - and that is exactly what mqm destroyed in karachi.

e. again you ignored what i wrote.

That is OK. Have a nice day.

hamidm mian: "if and when they get their act together i will be right behind them ...... for now musharraf is a good choice..."

i have noticed that it takes you around three years to come around to the points of view that i suggest.......for three years, you argue like crazy and then, eventually, accept what i had originally stated....

......it took you three years on bush and now three years on musharraf......

.....as i had said (and you are now saying), musharraf is a better choice than bb and ns and fazl and qazi.....hence if they are the only ones running, then lesser of the evils is musharraf......

......however, he is not better than the imran khans and aitezaz ahsans etc.......i.e. your comment on politicians getting their act together.....

i would add one more point.....if judiciary gets its act together, then one should support the judiciary and not musharraf.......the judiciary has gotten its act together, for the first time in pakistan's history, hence one needs to line up behind them.....

.......what should they do....perhaps the most practical decision would be to let musharraf remain president, but cut down, totally, the powers of the president........and not to allow musharraf to drop the corruption cases against bb and ns etc.......after all, the job of the judiciary is to challenge all wrongdoings, not just those by musharraf......

#100 Posted by tahmed32,

tahmed32, instead of ranting and raving, you might read the post in question again and see if the tactic deployed by JUI (F) was in fact the optimum under the circumstances or not :)

... and this thing about corruption. People are unnecessarily jumping up and down about it. All is not exactly stealing from the national kitty.

High level corruption is mostly the 'kick back' kind and is nothing unique. It is taking a small cut upfront from the future earnings of foreign contractors/suppliers. It happens real big time even in countries like USA, Japan, and S. Korea ... routinely ... all the time! Let alone the Hindoos who even took a cut in coffin supplies for their Kargil dead!

BB's corruption was however different. She and Zardari (as her front man) used her position openly to demand a cut out of every deal which was then allowed to be recovered from the price to the national exchequer, so it was actually stealing from the kitty. The IPPs were a prime example where the international price of $ 600,000 per MW was agreed at $850,000 per MW with the difference going to BB/Zardari, and recovered by the IPPs from WAPDA through the agreed tariffs in the Power Purchase Agreements.

... and this is the person who is going to be your third time prime minister !!!

dost-mittar#: if the supreme court rules against musharraf, then the final phase of the battle that has been going on in pakistan, for 50 years, will come to the forefront......

.......uptil now, supreme court and army have been side-stepping each other; each giving a little and taking a little......musharraf did not declare an emergency, when cj was restored, and supreme court did not rule on the case on musharraf's dual positions......

....basically, the army and judiciary have agreed that they will let each other operate independently.....i.e. army will follow judiciary's rulings as long as they are only on legal matters and not on legislative ones......and judiciary will leave the legislature to the politicians (and the army)......i.e. if musharraf can manipulate, bribe, threaten the politicans and become president again, the supreme court will not interfere.....and if the supreme court wants the army to stop kidnapping pakistanis, the army will agree.......

.......now, if the above trend is correct, the supreme court, in this current case, will rule in favor of musharraf.....or better yet, will drop the case on a technicality.......thereby passing the buck back to the legislature......the legislature has already elected musharraf.....and musharraf will then become president and will take off his uniform......after that, his only challenge will be to keep the new coas on his side, and keep the legislature divided and hung.......

.......the new coas has been picked out of a long list of generals, hence he must be loyal as hell to musharraf....and he knows that if the civilians ever take over, the army's business dealings will be finished......hence he will not rock the boat......

......the opportunistic politicians have already shown how hungry they are to get into power and are jumping at the bits musharraf is throwing out to them....and, believe me, they are dead scared of the army.......

......so, now the only hurdle for musharraf is to ensure that no single party gets too much of a majority in the parliament.....he already has the pml(q) and mqm on his side......so that will give him 33% of the votes.....now he needs to ensure that neither the pml(n) nor ppp nor mma gets too many votes......shouldn't be a problem.....as ppp and mma are somewhat discredited.....

now, if the supreme court delves into legislature matters and does rule against musharraf, then it will truly be the defining moment for army's role in politics......if musharraf simply walks off into the sunset, then the army will have totally accepted the fact that it is not going to be in politics, and slowly its power over the state will get smaller and smaller......

.....on the other hand, if musharraf declares an emergency (which will be supported by the legislature, as the whole opposition has resigned), then we will be back to square one in the fight between army and judiciary.......he will try to fire the judges during the emergency........

then, depending on what happens in the streets, either the judiciary will become even more strengthened, or they will lose the independence they have gained through the recent cj episode.......

.....i don't think the judiciary wants to lose its independence, and i don't think the army wants to lose its power over the legislature (it has accepted its loss of power over the judiciary).......

so, pakistan has made one move towards democracy......army has lost its power over the judiciary, due to the unity amongst judges and action of lawyers.......now, step 2 is army losing its grip over legislature......i don't see that happening, as the legislature, unlike the judges and lawyers, is filled with dictatorial parties, whose leaders are massively corrupt and opportunistic........

the army will continue to control the legislature (if not through musharraf than through some other general), as long as the second tier of political leaders do not develop the courage to take on their top heridatory leaderships......despite all the accolades being thrown at aitezaz ahsan, when push came to shove, he loyally followed the directions of bb and has supported musharraf in the assembly........

hamidm #98 "competence" is situational (as your personnel department must have told you). mush's competence is in playing fast and loose with law and order and the very fabric of pakistani society in order to stay in power.

democracy may not be an exciting form of government, but it beats dictatorship any day. Even the herrenvolk under the perfect dictator found that out - the hard way.

As they say, If love is blind, hate can see no better!!! I think t-ahmed has some personal grudges to settle with Mushy!
 
a)      Anyone who criticizes ‘Lal Mosque Operation’ should hire a shrink! And I know most of the Pakistani’s should go to the shrink because we are emotional fools. As they say ‘jab make (bees) kay chat-tay mein haath daloon gay – tu makhee-yaan (bees) tu ayen ge’ – sames the logic with increase of extremism and increased terrorist suicide bombings in Pakistan – the phase is temporary and these ‘scums’ are getting more desperate everyday.
b)      On Economic Reforms – bhai there’s a serious social problem here , I mean people who get degrees are working and people who are not educated or skilled enough will loose out and lot in our rural areas and north and rural sind do not study out of cultural reasons .Another point is that people are getting less and less in heritance money from there fathers ; thanks for producing 4-7 children. People suffers from all this – on top of it , I agree there is serious inflation problem but how could one blame Mushraff for all the ills? On the contrary, Mushraff made policies which created jobs ( especially for semi-educated and semi-skilled people) Television , BOP boom is one example .
c)      Whoever is the beholden – Mushraff gave more funds to Sind and Balochistan – which were left out.
d)      Yes, Mushraff gave money to Karachi which our Nazim used to improve infrastructure and basic necessarily of Karachi. It is during the government of MOM – that Karachi is rated top for doing business by the World Bank. There is a return of capital and investment in technology and manufacturer based industry’s in Karachi. Plus , the Karachi-wale's are for once ‘are confident enough’
e)      Mushraff – no doubt gave women the rights – Although I still feel it’s not good enough but he I think championed Women Cause and worked for minority’s as well.
f)        HEC is formed for higher educated with people like Dr.Ata ur Rehman ( hoodboy like cowasjee could never be satisfied ) – plus there is a improvement in primary , secondary levels .

We are people who love to criticize - if someone is wearing a white suit they would ignore the suit and point
to a black mark to criticize!