Musharraf’s New Ordinance Hoopla

ferozek#: "...MMA cannot hold together, because Fazl-ur-Rehman and Qazi Hussain Ahmed do not share a similar point of view...."

...i think a lot of people, who support the liberal parties in pakistan, are hoping the mma falls apart......and the above is their main argument.....

anyone who supports politics and a stable politcal system, should not support or assist in the breaking up of political parties....it is bad for democracy.......even if one disagrees with a political party's agenda, one should defeat it, fair and square, in a vote.......not by breaking it up........

.......while your assertion on differences between fazl and qazi are correct, there is one major difference between religioius parties and with the liberal parties......religious parties, are not, generally, one-man shows, unlike the liberal parties........religious parties are quite a bit more democratic........so the leaders of these parties, do have to listen to their votebase......fazl will have to listen to his votebase.....which is very anti-musharraf and anti-usa.....so he will, eventually have to side with his votebase......even if he doesn't want to......

the other things about the religious parties is that they rarely, if ever, have lotas.......even if they do break up, they will break cleanly along two party lines - jui and ji...each party will not split in half......

and religious party leaders do not have any corruption cases against them.....

liberal parties in pakistan are total dictatorships ......and most of their leaders have so many court cases against them for corruption or murder that they can always be coerced by the military........

pakistan, on the whole, is anti-orthodox religious parties.....but with the backroom deals, and corruption etc. of liberal parties, where they are ready to dance with anyone who can get them in power, i think the public may eventually have no choice left but to go to the religious right.....

smart money is on urstruly, and not on hamidm...................

if one goes by genuine political credentials, then sheikh rashid fills all of them by pakistani standards.......

he is totally a self-made man......he started off as a street hawker as a boy......from there he became a lawyer (??).....he was a student political leader.....he was jailed on multiple occassions by his opponents, and got his degrees in jail.......

.....he parted company from nawaz sharif, however did not join musharraf during the elections........he won two seats from rawalpindi, on his.......and then joined musharraf........he is considered unbeatable from his constituencies........he left one of his seats, and asked his nephew (??) to contest.....his nephew lost.......

......he, allegedly, personally supported the kashmir struggle, and one of the leaders of the kashmiri leadership, personally, stated this when he came to pakistan.......

sheikh rashid lives in the famous lal haveli in rawalpindi...someone told me that he has or is going to donate the haveli for a women's college.......

Re: bulleya # 61

There are no alliances in Pakistani politics and never will be, because individual interests will always superced politics and personal interests - wish for power - will be always be the deciding factor.

This masquerade will last as long as everyone has a common interest and an outside chance of retaining power and then, the waltz will change partners again to reflect new interests, but the same dance and the same tune will continue; maybe with a slighty varied and a modulated rhythm.

MMA cannot hold together, because Fazl-ur-Rehman and Qazi Hussain Ahmed do not share a similar point of view.Fazl-ur-Rehman's faction has a government in NWFP and an alliance in power in Baluchistan and does not wish to risk them by narrowing his options. Qazi, on the other hand, has no power to retain or risk and thus, can claim to have a principled stand, but when offered political power was too willing to make the pact with the devil, as shown in his conduct during the passage/debate on/over 17th Amendment.

Fazl-ur-Rehman is a politican and he will "rope a dope" to retain power and feels that Qazi has no right, for the sake of his politics, to ruin Fazl-ur-Rehman's political options. There is a divide in MMA. The irony, which was not missed and was pointed on TV, was that it was the MMA government in Peshawar, NWFP, that was beating up the protesting lawyers on Election Day.

MMA is divided because one of its factions supports the government and other does not; one of its leaders is pro-government and other is not. MMA cannot have two leaders in one party and it cannot attack the government's policies while also defending it at the same time.

The best option is, parenthetically speaking, what Anil in post # 60 suggested and that is the emergence of a new political party/power in Pakistani politics. I talked about the "ownership" in politics and what I mean is the Pakistani people will not be handed freedom and democracy on a silver platter, but will have to fight for it and pry it from the hands of status quo that has gripped it since 1947.

Sadly, Pakistani society is a status quo society and given half a chance in the status quo, it will sell out its idealism.

Ciao

hamidm #49 i agree with you here - i have been watching some pakistani TV talk shows, and they are definitely more reasoned and considerate of one another (in terms of letting the other guy speak without interruption) then some of these turkeys on cnn.

ferozk #63 the more is the pity - musharraf had so much going for him (free press, putting india in its place in 2003), and he blew it all away with his greed for power. now he is doomed to go down in Pakistan history as just another tinput dictator.

sri bubbay: specimen like you from india make one realize how much we pakistanis have to be grateful for.

Re: # 59

Ok Hamid, being jingoistic is what you consider being a better politician. Since when have you been so naïve? All of these crooks in Pakistan have been bought out by the mighty dollar and by those who pump these dollars. Even the mighty ZAB was playing the tune of the white elephants. Rest assured there are no politician in Pakistan of the calibre of those who came during and before WWII. These so-called politicians are not there to work on people’s values, aspirations, or dreams.

Today’s so-called political leaders in Pakistan have been bought out either by the Arabs or by any other shade of foreign wealth. Just foaming on TV does not make one a politician. For the past 60 years, these so-called awami leaders have not solved one issue for the 170 million crazyhadies of Pakistan.

Of course Sunday talk shows in america is a bastardise version of modern american politics. It is used as a political venue to propagate the two party propaganda, and the world knows it. The corporate media is just one more leg for the white house or the congress to use in their manipulation of innocent masses.

re: hamidm2

Hamid sahib, you should hear stories about Sheikh Rashid, circulating, from his college days and everytime an Indian actress comes to Islamabad. ;)

Sheikh Rashid has a political appeal, which is missing from the other politicans and remember he started his politics from the street - therefore the colorful rough edges. He speaks the truth and is blunt about and for that, I admire him.

As to the press, yesterday I sat and watched the TV, skippiing channels, from the early morning till afternoon when the voting eneded. The press anchors, on all channels, had pointed questions and did not let a stray comment go unpunished. They were calling a spade a spade. Especially an interaction between Hamid Mir and a PML-Q MNA.

Hamid Mir, on his show Capital Talk, was showing a clip of Shortcut (Shoukat Aziz)talking about the election day and Shortcut said that except for a minor problem in Peshawar, all was normal. Hamid then said someone; a lawyer, whose name I forget, had both his legs broken and is this what the PM considers as normal? The MNA said Shortcut did not know about incident, when he made the statement and whereupon, Hamid said "are you saying that your PM is not-informed?"

The MNA defended the PM and said Hamid was making news as he went along and Hamid retorted that he was standing by his comment that the PM is not an informed PM.

Pakistani press is a lot freer than it ever was and one must give the devil his dues on this one too. Musharraf freed the press, when Sheikh Rashid was the minister of information...

Ciao

anilji, a most fascinating prognosis. Do you have any time frame in mind for this process to unfold?

...i cannot see how this partnership between musharraf, chaudries, benazir and altaf bhai can last.......they represent the liberal part of pakistani politics.....though chaudries, are more in the middle, by pakistani standards.....in terms of most to least liberal, i would rank them - mqm, musharraf, ppp, pml(q)....

however, deep down inside they hate each other......army has always hated the ppp, and ppp cadre have always hated the army......mqm has hated ppp, ever since ppp wiped them out in karachi.....chaudhry shujaat's father was chaudhry zahoor, who was assasinated........and chaudries blame ppp for that assasination.........

how are all these guys get along......

......they have one common factor in that they all have crimes that need to be forgiven by the other......mqm has murder cases against it........pml(q) and ppp leaders have been massively corrupt......and musharraf and army have constitutional violations against them.......

but this will not last......much like it was clear nawaz sharif and benazir's charter of democracy would not last.....when this alliance of convenience comes apart then what will happen.......

........the only faction i can see, which can hold together, moreso than others, is the mma.....it has its diffferences between qazi and fazl, but in the end, its votebase has a common vision........and mma is generally far more democratic internally than the liberal parties.......so their leadership cannot simply act solely on its own.......and the mma, generally, is disiplined and does not end up with lotas........

so, this alliance comes apart within the next five years.....army takes over again in the next five to ten years.......and then maulvis get power......i cannot see anything else happening, as the people are totally out of the loop, in this alliance......even the second level leadership of these parties are out of the loop, what to talk of the people......

the only wild card is the chief justice and the supreme court.........

Re: # 58

Cliftonbridge:

Musharraff is a kind of a lone ranger street fighter. After loosing few in Kargil, he knows which street fights to pick and win. And he is delivering, in Cricket lingo, six sixes in each over he has been playing whoever is the adversary. He epitomizes, the people around him have interests, while others may have friends.

I have said it many times here, that this alliance between largest democratic party and military will bring stability, profound change and even provide a model of badly needed alternative the world citizens expect, to America's Iraqi model, and Ahmadinijad's Iranian model.

The best part is after all this journey thru tora-bora to wana wana to Pakistan Supreme Court to Lal Masjid (= Pakistani Jalianwala bagh) to complexity of democracy simplified Pakistani ishytle to gerrymandering Pakistani ishtyle. I am now bullish about Pakistani youths too. I already have been bullish about "This India" for sometime. They never disappoints. And democracy in Pakistan is going to make sure the army is back in the barracks. Ask Musharraff, he is no fool..

Re: # 57

bubba,

.... i watch the sunday talk shows on american tv and the pakistani talk shows on geo and ary ...... let me tell you, compared to the pakistani politicians the american yahoos and bubbas are a bunch of amateurs ! ....... on top of that, pakistani talk show hosts like hamid mir, kashif abbassi and others are heads and shoulders above wimps and sissys like tim russert and wolf blitzer ..... the pakistani press is a lot freer than the american media can ever hope to be - no self imposed political correctness or politness standards for us - we call it like we see it !

....... i have no idea what everyone is bitching about - let the good times roll .........

.......... sheikh rashid on kashif's show today:"it is the month of ramzan and i probably shouldn't say this, but these politicians are not fourteen year old virgins that we can seduce them!" ........... i love this man !

sheikh rashid zindabad and to hell with whiners like imran khan !

The real question why cant society cant come up with a single popular leader who isnt some kind of destructive harlot like BB, NS, Altaph, Fazloo etc? Till we address the ridiculous literacy rates and depraved social norms that hold us back nothing will change...at least not for the better.

Ok, hamid, do you seriously think that these people in Islamabad know what real politics is all about! Or is it somewhat like office politics? Or is it social politics? What kind of politics do they know? These people have ruled a society of crazyhadies not because they are some kind of a political genius. A society such as Pakistan, which is full of crazyhadies can only produce leaders precisely because they know that their political skills will not be challenged. Pakistan can only offer the world a lot of crazyhadies from their stock of 170 million “bookhe nangeh lok”.

Tell me, how do you politicize a society where its women or even its men do not believe in wearing under wears?

Re: # 54
urstruly,

... calm down and stop being a wet blanket!.... i honestly think that this 'deal' is the best thing that has happened to pakistan in a long time - the logjam has been broken and may the better man/woman win !

........ i love it !

Re: # 52

borilvili,

.... so what is the problem with sheikh rashid being more than fifty years old ???? .....eh ??? ...... anyone can get go to the store and get fresh milk when they are twenty or thirty - it takes an exceptional man to get fresh milk when they are over fifty ......... and if i remember correctly, our holy prophet (pbuh and his camel) sowed most of his wild oat and drank most of his fresh milk when he was older than sheikh rashid .......

sheikh rashid zindabad !