Musharraf’s New Ordinance Hoopla

#229 by zeemax

These fighters were told soviets were Kafirs and to fight them along with Usama Bin Laden and they together kicked soviets' butts. Now when the Americans occupied the same country, they were told not to fight the americans.

Zee bhai, states have no permanent friends or foes, which is why yesterday's friend can be today's foe and vice-versa. But the general public thinks differently as you elaborated in the case of the Mujahideen/Taliban/Al Qaeda vis-a-vis the Soviet/American presence in Afghanistan. Which is why it is dangerous to play up public sentiment as Pakistan and America did. Today those same Mujahideen who were once regarded as saviours are the villains and have become a headache for both the Yanks and Pakis. India did the same with Bhindranwale and the LTTE and discovered the danger of playing with fire. Though late and after much damage, it has become wiser and now has cut off all links with the Sikh nationalists and the LTTE and even declared them terrorist organizations. But it seems Pakistan and the US still believe they can milk these organizations to serve their purpose.

The point here is that if states to use need military force, they had better use their Army, which is what it is for in the first place. But when you use non-state actors whose motivations are entirely different from yours, you're asking for trouble.

#227 Posted by majumdar,

Majumdar Saheb, everyone has such a short memory. Basically, yesterday's news establishes the mindset for today and day before yesterday is forgotten history. And so it goes on and on.

These fighters were told soviets were Kafirs and to fight them along with Usama Bin Laden and they together kicked soviets' butts. Now when the Americans occupied the same country, they were told not to fight the americans. And when they didn't listen - because to them the soviets and the americans are the same i.e. kafirs - Pakistanis started to bomb them and sent their army into their territory. Now, the Tribals believe Pakistanis have apostated and are Kafirs as well because they are helping Kafirs against Muslims.

That is sound logic.

#220 by borivili_express

hindus who are gloating right now, no good will come to you eventually, these pashtun fighters will make you long for your kashmiri flower sellers.

Yaar Borivili, no one is gloating, but it does give you satisfaction when you see folks who are out to harm you get harmed in turn. It is human nature. The Indian Army is not there in Kashmir out of choice, it had to enter the state when violence spiraled out of control. To put things in perspective, why wasn't the Indian Army deployed in Kashmir before 1989?

Zeemax sahib,

(So, lakhs would be a better figure for the people who are available for the fight. )

Yes there could be a million odd fighters in NWFP. But have you ever spared a thought on who would be their targets. Their first target would be fellow Pushtoon Muslims followed by Paki Muslims and then if they have any energy left the kaffirooons from across the border. They have already made life miserbale for NWFP, they will next destroy Pakistan b4 they get to do any real damage against anyone else. If not for anything as Pakistani citizen you should be concerned about these jihadis.

Regards

#224 Posted by majumdar

So why is the GoP violating Waziristan's sovereignty?

Exactly. Now you've got it. Pakistan broke its pact with the Tribal Agencies (i.e. FATA) by putting up army checkposts inside it and sending in the army. It is an invasion, and that is why tribes are fighting against it just as any other country would.

Hamidm do you come from a family of bhaands? if u are too agnlicised bhaands are the travelling mendicants who sing,dance and tell stories and entertain people in the villages

you really remind me of them, also u are quite a profesional did u learn it at your father's feet

Zeemax sahib,

(FATA is NOT part of Pakistan at all, but fully independent to govern itself since the very outset. )

So why is the GoP violating Waziristan's sovereignty?

Borivilli mian,

The Pushtoon fighters you are referring to have been fighting the Indian Army for the last 17 years else India would have crushed the "flower-sellers" ages back. As far as "gloating" is concerned let me just show you the mirror. Who was gloating till a few years back when the jihadis were bleeding the Indian Army in J&K? Who was boasting about spreading the jehad to rest of India? It is now when they have started "blowing back" that these mujahideen have suddenly become "havayoons" and "malaoons".

These jihadis do not mean any good to anyone in the subcontinent either Injuns or Pakis, Hanuds or Muslas.

Regards

#221 Posted by borivili_express,

Yes ... but just a small elaboration.

There're more than a million men in arms in FATA, and that figure represents the heavy weapons and automatic weapons. If one were to count just a pistol or a rifle, every male over the age of 13 has one. It is part of their initiation rites to manhood.

So, lakhs would be a better figure for the people who are available for the fight.

#219 Posted by majumdar,

I presume you are referring to the Islamic Emirate of Waziristan (IEW).

No no .... a lot of people even inside Pakistan do not understand Fata's status. To put it simply, it is like a foreign country aligned with Pakistan according to the Pakistan constitution, with Pakistan's interests protected only through 'Political Agents' who are no more than ambassadors. The only difference being that the 'Political Agents' have the power of enforcing the Frontier Crimes Regulations Act which is applicable only on the Government Property (i.e. roads etc) inside FATA.

FATA is NOT part of Pakistan at all, but fully independent to govern itself since the very outset.

also they number in the tens of thousands if not lakhs, not like the few hundred kashmiris you are used to

hindus who are gloating right now, no good will come to you eventually, these pashtun fighters will make you long for your kashmiri flower sellers.

they have a different level of hardiness and commitment and are are armed to the teeth

Zeemax sahib,

I presume you are referring to the Islamic Emirate of Waziristan (IEW). So why is the GoP occupying IEW? And if it is occupying IEW why are Pakistani citizens lecturing us on our possession of Kashmir which is a bona fide Indian province?

And waziris may have the right to form their own govt but the rest of Pakistan doesn't.

(The 300 soldiers refused to fight. There's a difference between that and surrendering.)

I can see it that way but do the former employers of these gentlemen see it that way?

Regards

Bori 210,

Using helicopter gunships and now bombers against their own people, well indiand did not do that to the pakistani inflitrators in kashmir.

For the tribals, and jihadis of pakistan, it is better to inflitrate to india than being given shehdad at their own door steps.

For a long time I have argued that the jihadis seek death, and pakistan should deliver shehdad at their own door steps. Good to see that pak rulers are listening to me.

zeemax, 216,

There is a big difference, to surrender to the tribals and to be beheaded on video and there after slaughtered three per day.

90,000 surrender and no one is slaughtered. for a pakistani to be beheaded is instead heaven, sorry we could not send any pakistani to heaven.

#213 Posted by majumdar,

We have yet to see 300 odd Indian soldiers surrender in one day flat to the Jihadis.

I'm even more surprised now. The 300 soldiers refused to fight. There's a difference between that and surrendering. Isn't it?

#208 Posted by majumdar,

Do Pakistanis (Waziristanis or otherwise) have the right to elect their own govt.

You might be surprised to learn that Waziristanis do have their own Government ... by constitution!