Musharraf’s New Ordinance Hoopla

#91 Posted by dost_mittar.

Guess you missed the Dawn News interview of yesterday. He was asked this question very pointedly (i.e. would he accept the verdict if it went against him), and musharraf's response was a very clear "We'll see when the time comes".

Actually, he has never said he will accept the verdict with respect to the current case. He only said that in the CJ restoration instance.

Re: # 95

tahmed,

.... no, it has nothing to do with musharraf being 'the lesser of the two evils' ...... i would have been very happy if the politicians had managed to get him out - but they are incompetent, corrupt and too busy squabbling among thmselves ...... if and when they get their act together i will be right behind them ...... for now musharraf is a good choice ....... incompetence does not deserve to be rewarded and the supreme court shouldn't do it .......

arry bhai hamid, kiyoun tou koi sheikh rashid ka rishta daar hay kia? ya ous kay payroll pur ho?

all the screw balls in Islamabad will never work for the people of Pakistan, and maybe that is just fine by you. Is it?

And now zeemax comes out in defense of...mullah 17th amendment!!

zeemax: I heard a discussion on aaj tv last week where Bishop Fazlur-Rehman was said that he was available for a talk with the government (read: deal with musharraf), but sadly...no phone call forthcoming. :-(

Musharraf has found someone else, and dumped the poor maulanas. :-(

Perhaps you should tell the poor maulvis to see it from Musharraf's point of view since this might help them understand why their services are no longer needed: now that Mush knows he can no longer prop maulvis up as the Evil Invaders from Outer Space against whom SuperHero Enlightened Man is fighting to save the world, he has no choice but to dump poor Maulana Fazloo.

....... i am willing to bet a dollar to a starving muslim's date from mecca that if they had a 'presidential' election at the national level, musharraf would win with a comfortable majority - more than 40% of the people would vote for him ...... the rest would be split between bb, ns, fazloo, qazi and the taliban riff raff ...

Re: # 99

bubba,

.......... i have known sheikh rashid since his gordon college days - the man is a gem

As they say, If love is blind, hate can see no better!!! I think t-ahmed has some personal grudges to settle with Mushy!
 
a)      Anyone who criticizes ‘Lal Mosque Operation’ should hire a shrink! And I know most of the Pakistani’s should go to the shrink because we are emotional fools. As they say ‘jab make (bees) kay chat-tay mein haath daloon gay – tu makhee-yaan (bees) tu ayen ge’ – sames the logic with increase of extremism and increased terrorist suicide bombings in Pakistan – the phase is temporary and these ‘scums’ are getting more desperate everyday.
b)      On Economic Reforms – bhai there’s a serious social problem here , I mean people who get degrees are working and people who are not educated or skilled enough will loose out and lot in our rural areas and north and rural sind do not study out of cultural reasons .Another point is that people are getting less and less in heritance money from there fathers ; thanks for producing 4-7 children. People suffers from all this – on top of it , I agree there is serious inflation problem but how could one blame Mushraff for all the ills? On the contrary, Mushraff made policies which created jobs ( especially for semi-educated and semi-skilled people) Television , BOP boom is one example .
c)      Whoever is the beholden – Mushraff gave more funds to Sind and Balochistan – which were left out.
d)      Yes, Mushraff gave money to Karachi which our Nazim used to improve infrastructure and basic necessarily of Karachi. It is during the government of MOM – that Karachi is rated top for doing business by the World Bank. There is a return of capital and investment in technology and manufacturer based industry’s in Karachi. Plus , the Karachi-wale's are for once ‘are confident enough’
e)      Mushraff – no doubt gave women the rights – Although I still feel it’s not good enough but he I think championed Women Cause and worked for minority’s as well.
f)        HEC is formed for higher educated with people like Dr.Ata ur Rehman ( hoodboy like cowasjee could never be satisfied ) – plus there is a improvement in primary , secondary levels .

We are people who love to criticize - if someone is wearing a white suit they would ignore the suit and point
to a black mark to criticize!

 

hamidm #98 "competence" is situational (as your personnel department must have told you). mush's competence is in playing fast and loose with law and order and the very fabric of pakistani society in order to stay in power.

democracy may not be an exciting form of government, but it beats dictatorship any day. Even the herrenvolk under the perfect dictator found that out - the hard way.

dost-mittar#: if the supreme court rules against musharraf, then the final phase of the battle that has been going on in pakistan, for 50 years, will come to the forefront......

.......uptil now, supreme court and army have been side-stepping each other; each giving a little and taking a little......musharraf did not declare an emergency, when cj was restored, and supreme court did not rule on the case on musharraf's dual positions......

....basically, the army and judiciary have agreed that they will let each other operate independently.....i.e. army will follow judiciary's rulings as long as they are only on legal matters and not on legislative ones......and judiciary will leave the legislature to the politicians (and the army)......i.e. if musharraf can manipulate, bribe, threaten the politicans and become president again, the supreme court will not interfere.....and if the supreme court wants the army to stop kidnapping pakistanis, the army will agree.......

.......now, if the above trend is correct, the supreme court, in this current case, will rule in favor of musharraf.....or better yet, will drop the case on a technicality.......thereby passing the buck back to the legislature......the legislature has already elected musharraf.....and musharraf will then become president and will take off his uniform......after that, his only challenge will be to keep the new coas on his side, and keep the legislature divided and hung.......

.......the new coas has been picked out of a long list of generals, hence he must be loyal as hell to musharraf....and he knows that if the civilians ever take over, the army's business dealings will be finished......hence he will not rock the boat......

......the opportunistic politicians have already shown how hungry they are to get into power and are jumping at the bits musharraf is throwing out to them....and, believe me, they are dead scared of the army.......

......so, now the only hurdle for musharraf is to ensure that no single party gets too much of a majority in the parliament.....he already has the pml(q) and mqm on his side......so that will give him 33% of the votes.....now he needs to ensure that neither the pml(n) nor ppp nor mma gets too many votes......shouldn't be a problem.....as ppp and mma are somewhat discredited.....

now, if the supreme court delves into legislature matters and does rule against musharraf, then it will truly be the defining moment for army's role in politics......if musharraf simply walks off into the sunset, then the army will have totally accepted the fact that it is not going to be in politics, and slowly its power over the state will get smaller and smaller......

.....on the other hand, if musharraf declares an emergency (which will be supported by the legislature, as the whole opposition has resigned), then we will be back to square one in the fight between army and judiciary.......he will try to fire the judges during the emergency........

then, depending on what happens in the streets, either the judiciary will become even more strengthened, or they will lose the independence they have gained through the recent cj episode.......

.....i don't think the judiciary wants to lose its independence, and i don't think the army wants to lose its power over the legislature (it has accepted its loss of power over the judiciary).......

so, pakistan has made one move towards democracy......army has lost its power over the judiciary, due to the unity amongst judges and action of lawyers.......now, step 2 is army losing its grip over legislature......i don't see that happening, as the legislature, unlike the judges and lawyers, is filled with dictatorial parties, whose leaders are massively corrupt and opportunistic........

the army will continue to control the legislature (if not through musharraf than through some other general), as long as the second tier of political leaders do not develop the courage to take on their top heridatory leaderships......despite all the accolades being thrown at aitezaz ahsan, when push came to shove, he loyally followed the directions of bb and has supported musharraf in the assembly........

... and this thing about corruption. People are unnecessarily jumping up and down about it. All is not exactly stealing from the national kitty.

High level corruption is mostly the 'kick back' kind and is nothing unique. It is taking a small cut upfront from the future earnings of foreign contractors/suppliers. It happens real big time even in countries like USA, Japan, and S. Korea ... routinely ... all the time! Let alone the Hindoos who even took a cut in coffin supplies for their Kargil dead!

BB's corruption was however different. She and Zardari (as her front man) used her position openly to demand a cut out of every deal which was then allowed to be recovered from the price to the national exchequer, so it was actually stealing from the kitty. The IPPs were a prime example where the international price of $ 600,000 per MW was agreed at $850,000 per MW with the difference going to BB/Zardari, and recovered by the IPPs from WAPDA through the agreed tariffs in the Power Purchase Agreements.

... and this is the person who is going to be your third time prime minister !!!

#100 Posted by tahmed32,

tahmed32, instead of ranting and raving, you might read the post in question again and see if the tactic deployed by JUI (F) was in fact the optimum under the circumstances or not :)

hamidm mian: "if and when they get their act together i will be right behind them ...... for now musharraf is a good choice..."

i have noticed that it takes you around three years to come around to the points of view that i suggest.......for three years, you argue like crazy and then, eventually, accept what i had originally stated....

......it took you three years on bush and now three years on musharraf......

.....as i had said (and you are now saying), musharraf is a better choice than bb and ns and fazl and qazi.....hence if they are the only ones running, then lesser of the evils is musharraf......

......however, he is not better than the imran khans and aitezaz ahsans etc.......i.e. your comment on politicians getting their act together.....

i would add one more point.....if judiciary gets its act together, then one should support the judiciary and not musharraf.......the judiciary has gotten its act together, for the first time in pakistan's history, hence one needs to line up behind them.....

.......what should they do....perhaps the most practical decision would be to let musharraf remain president, but cut down, totally, the powers of the president........and not to allow musharraf to drop the corruption cases against bb and ns etc.......after all, the job of the judiciary is to challenge all wrongdoings, not just those by musharraf......

IB #103: so you say anyone who holds a government responsible for protecting citizens from vigilantes (as i mentioned musharraf failed to do until told to get his act together by the chinese goverment) should see a shrink?

if the world followed your instructions, americans, indians, europeans, japanese, chinese - indeed the entire world other than musharraf and his mqm supporters would be lining up to see the shrink.

b. economic policies - you have ignored what I wrote about your claims about musharraf's economic policies, and gone off on a tangent on the reasons for poverty.

c. On who benefits from military dictatorship - you have again ignored my point about us "evil panjabis" being the beneficiaries from military dictatorship however way you cut it, and stick you to the mqm party line simply because this military dicatorship has an urdu-speaking face. like someone said, there is a sucker born every minute.

d. you again ignored what i wrote - roads and bridges dont make cities. a cosmopolitan and peaceful culture does - and that is exactly what mqm destroyed in karachi.

e. again you ignored what i wrote.

That is OK. Have a nice day.

zeemax: i am not ranting and raving!! i am merely finding excuses not to do what i should be doing (and discussing the Pakistani political circus is definitely not it). ;-)

re: bulleya # 70

This must have been a few years ago. I was having lunch with an American, who worked for an NGO in the Far East and was by all the appearances of his "cover", a CIA man...

The talk was political and then it turned "political" and he asked me, which was the most democratic party in Pakistan and I said the religious ones. Reply: I thought so.

You will have no arguments on this issue. The religious parties have a clearly defined procedure for electing their leaderships and have periodic elections, which is absent from the so-called champions of democracy; the secular parties of Pakistan.

Bulleya, we will know of the corruption cases after the MMA leaves power in Baluchuistan and NWFP, but stories about them are legend. Corruption in this sense does not mean money only.

Ciao

Jayp,

If this is what you do for a living, then one can be sure you are not making much head way in life.. because your paki-bashing is so obviously stupid and idiotic, that it fails to register as anything but the rant of stupid and idiotic person.

So tell us the truth... what did that Pakistani do to you which scalded you so?