Musharraf’s New Ordinance Hoopla

"The army in present-day Pakistan is like the Church in medieval Europe. All they want is your land and your money! "

Very well put!!

The argument that army is a true representative of the middle class has also been put forth by several croonies of military from time to time. However even Christina Lamb in our book Waiting for Allah has endorsed this argument. Although i do not endorse this point of view but the problem why this argument is having some takers is becuse our current voting system is skewed towards the rich and powerful particulary in the rural area. Consequently our legislatures are full of people who are apparently voted by the people but in reality are not representing their interests. I think we need to take steps to reduce the influence of local influence in the rural poliics. Mind you majority of the seats are in rural areas and there it is the ifluence of the candidate not the ideology or manifesto of the party which really counts.
For democracy to be realy representative we need to reduce this element.

The argument that army is a true representative of the middle class has also been put forth by several croonies of military from time to time. However even Christina Lamb in her book "Waiting for Allah" has endorsed this argument. Although i do not endorse this point of view but the problem why this argument is having some takers is becuse our current voting system is skewed towards the rich and powerful particulary in the rural area. Consequently our legislatures are full of people who are apparently voted by the people but in reality are not representing their interests. I think we need to take steps to reduce the influence of local influence in the rural politics. Mind you majority of the seats are in rural areas and there it is the influence of the candidate not the ideology or manifesto of the party which really counts.
For democracy to be really representative we need to reduce this element.

Re: # 1 How can you comment on something without getting to know the actual thing? donot look at army as if it comprises of only those persons whom you see in the paper or media. there is more to it than those. there are people who never think of corridors of powers and just continue to do their daily business. thanks

re: Mohammad A Shaikh

Interesting article.

The British army did stage a coup against the English Parliament, when Oliver Cromwell dismissed it in the 1640s and then ruled England as the "Lord Protector" and Puritanism reigned supreme. When Cromwell died, the parliament restored the monarchy in a period of English history known as the Restoration. Then, they dug up Cromwell's body from its grave and tried him for treason against the state, for dismissing parliament and ruling England without it's consent and then dragged his corpse through the streets of London and after which, they hung his decayed body in a public square.

The message was, that parliament is the supreme law making body in England and no one is above it or would be allowed to rule over it!

The Reconcilation Ordinance will incite a backlash, because though politically it may make sense to those who have a stake in the politics, the common person on the street will think that it is a "deal amongst thieves".

It is always a good idea not stir silent waters...

Ciao

guys it is simple: Mushy has a one point agenda: what must i do to remain in power for as long as possible. THat's it. Everything else is just tactics.

Mohammed,

You are totally wrong when you say,

"These issues come about because there is no respect for separation of powers. This affects common-man issues like consumer rights, health care and food price inflation (because the junta/ establishment knows there is no competing institution that may take them on)."

The problems of pakistan are much more deep rooted. Take the kargill, war, the officers of pak army are supposed to be educated at the most respected institution in pakistan, many are trained in the uS and UK, still they went for the war, which now many claim was wrong. What happened to the so called educated, what did education provide to the pakistanis, simply put it did not provide them with a rational thinking process, it simply schooled them.

One can see the same process in the chowk interactors, they are all educated and here is a case of YLH. He maintains that the traouble in waziristan is caused by the followers of gandhi and in that process he absolves the pakistanis and the madrassas of any responsibility.

It is this lack of understanding of the reality and the refusla to take responsibility for the situation in pakistan is the root cause. For every thing, the responsibility is ascribed to some one dead gadhi to zia, or to some one outside pakistan the US or afghanistan.

There will be more such ordinances, they are all the signs of a society collapsing on itself, large regions declaring their own laws, the streets of karachi ruled by teh criminals.

Murder and other crimes,

When Samia Arawar was murdered a few years ago, no one was charged with an offence, because no crime was comitted.

It is reasonable for benzir and others to ask the same question, if murder is not a crime, why should stealing money from any one be treated as a crime. My dear pakistanis, think about it, and do not blame Mushy, he is only extending a widely accepted notion of pak society.

Read thsi from dawn of today, and feel easy



"Another amendment stipulates that all cases that were registered by the National Accountability Bureau in or outside Pakistan against holders of public offices during the period in question would be deemed to have been withdrawn. Furthermore, such persons shall not be liable to any action in future as well for acts done in good faith before the said date.

Yet another amendment — in the Code of Criminal Procedure of 1898 (Act V, Section 494) — calls for withdrawal of cases registered between Jan 1, 1986, and Oct 12, 1999, by the federal or a provincial government against any person, including an absconding accused, found to have been framed for political reasons. The law will be applicable to only those cases in which no court has given a judgment."

Author,

In short we have a lot going for us in terms of constitutional development and corporate governance.

... and a lot more. It is the collective mindset of the clique of gora boot-licking kanjaRs who are contemptuous of this country despite eating from its plate (the plate-pisser phenomenon) and regard the ordinary non-kanjaR fellow Pakistanis as regressive and backward and ignorant, and continue to betray them at every occasion after having taken their votes. Of-course the reference is towards the maha-kanjaRi BB.

Though I have no respect for Government spokesmen, Dr. Salman Shah had an excellent point at Geo yesterday. When asked as to how the thieves and plunderers in the words of musharraf himself for no less than 8 years were now granted immunity? His answer was "... there are always huge crowds behind thieves. if the people didn't vote for thieves and plunderers in Pakistan, no one would have to make deals with them."

This is the reality. If BB has votes, musharraf has an easy choice in continuing with this kanjaRpana. This time it is the withdrawing of court cases in return for election support, next time it will be something else. The cloak and dagger stuff will continue and both sides will keep collecting something or the other to blackmail each other with for prudential insurance.

#8 Posted by jayp,

Yaar I think the people who stole money from the coffin purchases of their war dead have no right to make these statements.

Zeemax 10,

Murder, corruption, theft..they are there every where. But pakistan is the only country where murder is not a crime due to TNT version of sharia, theft is not a crime due to "teh doctrine of necessity".

What is unique about pakistan is that teh society through the legislature and teh supreme court makes the crime as non-crime and hence legal. This is done with teh support of teh educated, the legal fratenity, the officials in the ministries, the so called highly professional military...you name it and endorsed by the ilks of tahmed and ylh.

You will never hear it in pakistan what you have quoted about india, corruption charges against military..Pak military is never corrupt, ask roamir.

Mohammed rip van winkle,


"During Musharraf reign Pakistan has digressed in so many ways. This ordinance will further allow this country to totally divorce away the concept of accountability."

You are totally out of touch with pakistan. The entire notion of accountability in pakistan was provided by Mushy with his NAB, mohammed, it stands for national accountability board.

What Mushy gives, mushy taketh away, ...have you not learned pak history, MAJ after spending years on preaching TNT, that muslims cannot live with people of other religions, finally in one speech took away the entire notion of TNT. The same here with Mushy, NAB was created by him, and now he has destroyed it.

"His answer was "... there are always huge crowds behind thieves. if the people didn't vote for thieves and plunderers in Pakistan, no one would have to make deals with them."


...I think this was consensus statement in that Debate, that Laghari Guy too said something similiar, and Sheikh Rashid too said something similiar..... only that PPP lawyer iqbal Haider , said something about 10 years of fishing for proofs ,....etc..etc..etc..

bytheway...

with this so call RECONCILIATION Ordinance ,which has laid grouds to pardoned anyone and everyone from 1986-1999 ,whether he is a Killer,Terrorist,Bhatta Khoor, Looter, Plunderer,Rapist, Hijacker...etc..etc Pakistan has Officialy announced , that there is NO LAW in the country....provided he belongs to any Political party and claims victimization......... Period.

mughal #4 you write "there are people who never think of corridors of powers and just continue to do their daily business". This is true, and at the individual level the vast majority of military people are fine, honorable people.

However, the problem is that as an institution, the military is indeed like a church (as per this article), which watches out for "its own" rather than for the nation it serves. Thus, the church is spending $600 million to pay off those abused by gay priests, and in Pakistan the military allows one dictator after another to get away with flouting the constitution.

The day a dictator is court-martialed in the military for abusing the trust a nation places in its armed forces and for conduct unbecoming an army officer (making a mockery of the electoral process being surely on top of the list!!), that day the military will start being seen again as a national army that is there to protect and defend the nation and the rule of law, not to trample over it.

Re: # 14

tahmed,

......... stop pissing in the wind, it is getting you all wet ........

...... as far as i am concerned it is a pretty good idea to get as many thieves as you can under one tent to cut down on the noise and get on with our lives ....... with bb, maulana fazloo, altaf bhai, the thieves of gujrat and mushy all toghether in bed, it should be one big orgy ...... the only people left on the sidelines playing with themselves will be qazi sahib, imran khan (party of one), nawaz sharif and the taliban .........

....... things are beginning to look up ....... the big question is if my cousin will get a ministership out of this deal ........ musharraf zindabad!

.... the unwashed masses of pakistan seem to have given there verdict, it is time for the 'talking classes', specially the expats who do not have a dog in this fight, to shut up !

"Opposition parties did not mount any protest and a call for a general strike received a lukewarm response in the capital. Only two dozen protesters gathered to protest outside the parliament, shouting, “This election is a fraud” and “Go Musharraf, Go.”

....... and someone should slap these 'two dozen protestors' for making a fool out of their families ........

jayp,

..... that goes for you and the other horrible hindoos suffering from small penis syndrome too - just shut up !

hamidm: It aint over till the fat lady sings!!

And there are plenty of fat ladies around that can sing over the next few months - the supreme court, the military, or just plain rank and file of political parties who decide they have had enough of the prima donnas (BB, NS, Mush) in this soap opera.

The Reconcilation Ordinance is an awful piece of legislation and the manner of it's passage - rushed in the hours of the night - speaks to it's flaws. It was an ordinance that was passed by the president, acting on his authority to pass a law, in the absence of a sitting senate or a parliament. As an ordinance, it has a sunset clause and it will automatically lapse and will be null and voided after a period of 4 months.

The only way this piece of legislation can exist longer than 4 months, is for the next parliament to pass it as a parliamentary bill. In any case, as the law stipulates, any presidential ordinance passed, has to come before the parliament and be debated. The next parliament must debate this law.

There is a parliament in session right now, but it was not allowed to pass this legislation, because Musharraf's PML-Q (which as one wit said on GEO, today, stands for Pervaiz Musharraf League - Quislings) is itself divided over the issue of granting amensty to Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif and such a law, had it been put to a test, would have not passed.

The elections are over and it is a tragedy that PPP boycotted it and gave Musharraf the throphy and in the process, allowed Musharraf to waltz into the presidency contested. If not Musharraf, they should have participated in the elections and should have voted for Wajeeuddin (sp.) The game plan of the PPP is now to approach the courts and challenge Musharraf but the courts might throw this argument out. If the PPP gives up its right to cast a vote against Musharraf, there is not much the law can do and now, PPP will question the legitimacy of this election and cry "murder most foul".

Painful shades of MMA in 2002 and the 17th Amendment! Just like the MMA then, PPP today abdicated its responsibility as the opposition. PPP as a political party is supposed to represent the people of Pakistan, because the very name PPP stands for Pakistan's People Party. It did not!

It supported its own interests and in the process, effectively disenfranchised its electoral support.

Today, despite the abysmal nature of the events, it was a watershed day in the political history of Pakistan, because for the first time, the mask of deceit was torn off the faces of the "national leaders" and the people finally saw the real face of politics in Pakistan.

The secret behind the portrait of the Pakistani Dorian Greys had been revealed!

Today, was the day to face reality and admit; we are all guilty. Today, we have to ask ourselves who is to blame if we select these people again? Will we blame the "hidden hand" again, or our own naive emotionalism? Today, we learned what happens to a nation and its people, when they ignore their past experience; change their history and lie to themselves.

Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the most foolish of them all?

Ciao

The army in present-day Pakistan is like the Church in medieval Europe.


Seeing as how they'r buggering you, it's even like the catholic church of today.

tahmed,

....... do you really believe that if there was a 'fair and free' election the results would be any different ?......... i can almost guarantee you that bb,ns, altaf bhai and maulana fazloo would still be the big winners ...... even the chaudaris will win although their 'party' might loose a few seats ........ as for the 'rank and file' of the political parties, they love their leaders - so who are you to argue with them ?! ....... i know a lot of people who will dump mo of mecca before they dump bb of larkana ........

re: # 19

The sentence: "The elections are over and it is a tragedy that PPP boycotted it and gave Musharraf the throphy and in the process, allowed Musharraf to waltz into the presidency contested."

should read as

"The elections are over and it is a tragedy that PPP boycotted it and gave Musharraf the throphy and in the process, allowed Musharraf to waltz into the presidency uncontested."

Ciao

Re: # 19

ferozk,

.... i feel your pain, but you are stating the obvious .......

.... "Today, we have to ask ourselves who is to blame if we select these people again?" ........ good question, but what are our choices ? ....... imran khan's party of one or baitullah mehsud ?

Just so we don't give prophetboy's revisionism a free pass, I'll post this. It reminds people that the paki junta was out dancing in the streets when nawaz was overthrown. Apparently the paki junta, deluded as they are, thought Pakiland was winning in Kargil and Nawaz had betrayed them by flying to DC(yup, on the 4th of july) and signing away pureland's greate victory over the hindoo...



"As You Sow, So Shall You Reap"

Hamed Mir penned this op-ed piece in Islamabad's popular, Urdu-language Ausaf (10/13): "At last, exactly what happened was that which the army was trying to avoid. When things started to get out of hand, despite its reluctance, the army had to rein in the elected democratic ruler of the country. What a pity that on October 12, when the army took control of the prime minister's house, the TV station and the airports, people started dancing in the streets and chanting anti-Nawaz slogans.... Whatever happened, the evening of October 12 has saved the country from a great civil war.... The fact of the matter is that Nawaz Sharif, by signing the Washington Declaration on July 4, had himself decided in favor of his political death."

so why isn't chowk getting bilal mushlet to write another "He had no choice" piece?He had no Choice!
Bilal Musharraf October 14, 1999

Let's see what bostonboy wrote days after hi old man launched a coup.

apparently the coup was launched not because pureland got it's ass kicked in kargil but because pureland was lagging in e-commerce.

He had no Choice!

Bilal Musharraf October 14, 1999

A personal perspective on the suspension of parliament
My father is a self-made man and I wish to state this up front that he has made a conscious effort to never abuse his influence for personal gain.

The developing world better prepare itself for what is about to hit it within the next decade. They say that 97 percent of the world economy will be controlled by the economies geared up for electronic commerce. The difference between the richest and poorest nations of the world is said to have been 1:5 two centuries ago but unbridled commercialism has given rise to a disparity of 1:500. Pretty soon we'll be dealing with inequities in wealth and resource distribution of a ratio in the order of one to thousands times more between the least developed and most developed economies. Until the day comes when every Pakistani, regardless of ethnicity, sex or religion has an equal opportunity to prosper through hard work, Pakistan cannot be a dynamic and progressive country that can stand its ground in the global competitive markets.

What are the options? Back to a fa�ade of democracy in the existing political structure? Satisfying the immediate expectation of announcing a hand picked portfolio of technocrats that would form an interim reform government? Devoting all attention to an across the board accountability?

Accountability must take place, and bringing in competent individuals to key positions is a decision that should not be taken in haste. Time WILL reveal the sincerity of purpose of individuals in question and actions will speak louder than words to give each of us confidence. I have one request though, and I would not say this if it was not absolutely crucial at this time. Pakistanis, wherever they are abroad, need to understand that this is a very unique point in Pakistan's history. We need to make the world appreciate the context in which the much needed reforms will be undertaken.

hamidm: i couldnt care less if people elected masadi's stupider (if that is possible) cousin for president. as long as they could also boot masadi's cousin out of office if he proved ineffective, and/or put him behind bars if they caught him stealing from the governments bank account.

It is the system that is important. Not the personalities. You cant run a country of 160 million people on the whims of one prima donna. or even three or thirty.

Congrats to Mush – ‘jalnay walon ka moon kala’

I personally made an effort to distribute aftari to 100 poor – after the results of the election although I am keeping y fingers crossed until the Supreme Bias Court of Pakistan comes up with the decision.

A Democracy lead by politicians and political parties, fails as they say and it’s Mushraff who brought real democracy to Pakistan by introducing freedom of speech and expression unlike the people from the North believed in when they ruled once.

Forgiveness does not change the past but it does enlarge the future.
Bravo to Mushraff for the new National Reconsilation Bill which paves way for clean politics and a bright future free from blackbailing of politicians and government officers. Lets just forget and forgive. I know people like tahmed’s , aquaris and urstruly will cry but they are simply not realists.
Most of the cases against PPP and MQM were made up , politically motivated and false – and were a waste and burden on judicary.

PS. Tahemds,Urstruly’s, Aquaris will cry babies no matter what happens !!!

Re: hamidm2# 23

Hamid sahib, I am stating what is written on the wall, but let me assure you that there is no pain. I have been a certified cynic, jaded, to a perfection for a very long time.

We have no choice.

I was merely venting my "idealism" and I am guilty of that occassionally and I will not defend my lapses. :)

Honestly and dispassionately speaking, blaming the Pakistani leadership is useless. Leaders come from the people and the governments they create, reflect the character of the people who elected them. The cynic in me applauds the statements of Dr. Salman Shah, Owais Leghari and Sheikh Rashid, when they talked about people supporting the ones who looted and plundered. Politicans and people who in engage in politics are not boy scouts and neither should they be judged along those standards.

This was a faustian bargain pure and simple. It was about votes and it was about power. It was based on cold political interests.

Imran Khan and Baituallah Mehsud are two opposite sides of the same intenable option in Pakistani politics. What I was alluding to was civic accountibility and that is, unless the people of this nation do not take responsibility of participating in the politics of the nation, they should not blame the people, who come to power. Without civic accountibility, politicans will look after their own interests just as water makes its own way, because they are not accountable for their actions.

All of this talk of democracy in Pakistan is facile, because we have abdicated our civic responsibilities. We do not ask our leaders to justify the policies that are being made in our name and we take no ownership for those policies. We are willing to die to put back into power those who have robbed us, but we are not willing to die to remove those who have robbed us from power. Here lies rub. Our priorities are out of sync with our wishful thinking and we are not willing to admit to our own complicity in our own misdeeds.

Hamid sahib, we are living in denial. :)

Ciao

IB: so you are happy that a general has been "elected" president just because he is of your ethnic group. you are truly a smart man!! :-)

ferozk: you might be interested in this editorial from Washington Post today, which echoes what you have been saying. I am reprinting it in full since it shows just how stupid musharraf's antics are proving to be:

Pakistan's Tainted Election
Gen. Pervez Musharraf is likely to be reelected as president today; whether he can maintain power is another question.

GEN. PERVEZ Musharraf will almost certainly succeed in orchestrating his "reelection" today as president of Pakistan -- but it will be an ugly victory. The national Parliament and provincial legislatures that will convene as an electoral college have little legitimacy, because they were chosen in rigged elections four years ago. In a genuine democratic election, Mr. Musharraf would have no chance of extending his eight years in power, which began with a military coup. Already tainted, the general's mandate will also be tenuous: Pakistan's Supreme Court ruled yesterday that the result cannot be certified until it rules on whether Mr. Musharraf is violating the constitution by entering the election without stepping down as Army commander in chief.

The good news is that Pakistan's autocratic but ineffectual leader will probably surrender a large share of power in the coming weeks. He has promised that if granted a new mandate as president, he will give up his military command -- something that may cause the Supreme Court to overlook the legal problems with his election. Yesterday he also, at last, struck a deal with one of the country's two principal secular political party leaders, former prime minister Benazir Bhutto. Under its terms, corruption charges against Ms. Bhutto and her husband will be dropped and she will be allowed to return to Pakistan this month. Her party hopes to win parliamentary elections due by early next year and return her as prime minister.

In a few months Pakistan could be governed by a troika of Mr. Musharraf, Ms. Bhutto or another civilian prime minister, and the likely new army commander, Gen. Ashfaq Pervez Kiyani. The Bush administration, which has been quietly pushing for just such an outcome while publicly proclaiming disinterest in Pakistan's internal affairs, is hoping that it will strengthen the government both politically and militarily in what, right now, is a losing battle against Islamic extremism -- including Taliban and al-Qaeda forces that have gained control over a large and growing chunk of western Pakistan.

The problem with this convoluted process is that it may involve very little democracy. Though Ms. Bhutto says her deal with Mr. Musharraf is meant to ensure that parliamentary elections will be free and fair, it appeared yesterday that another major Pakistani political figure, Nawaz Sharif, could be excluded. Though relatively popular while in exile, Ms. Bhutto could quickly be discredited if she is seen to be gaining power through backroom dealing with Mr. Musharraf. The government has recently conducted a crackdown on opposition leaders from Mr. Sharif's party, as well as on the media. Unless the crackdown is reversed and a credible parliamentary election is held, Pakistan's moderate and secular center will continue to be at war with itself while its enemies grow steadily stronger.

Re: tahmed32 # 31

The bottom line is that the idea of institutionalism has suffered a body blow, from which it might never recover in Pakistan. The "midnight deal" was about the interests of a few personalities and had nothing to do, with the process of democracy. The silver lining in all of this is, that the reality of the political process has been unveiled in Pakistan and because of that, both the army and politicans; secular and religious stand discredited.

Hopefully, this will cure our public's national emotionalism and bon hommie, which has caused so much stink in our politics and as to the Reconciliation Ordinance, it would have passed more muster had it been debated and passed by the next parliament. As things are right now, this ordinance has simply and rudely slapped the Pakistani public in the face and there is a complete sense of inalienation in politics; the people have no idea to whom to turn and there is a tangible "trust deficit".

In this situation, out of sheer hopeless and befuddlement, the people will look to the likes of Imran Khan and Baitullah Mehsud and the final curtain will finally descend. Again, the blame lies squarely with us and our total abdication of our civic responsibility.

Is there a way out? Yes, there is, but for that to happen, we must accept the ownership of our politics and the manner of achieving this still passes through a national reconciliation, but not in form of a presidential ordinance, but in the shape of a national referandum on the issue.

Let the people decide in a truely populist tradition and this will reconcile us to the reality and finally, based on the decision, will hold us accountable for our actions. Reconcilation comes from admitting our wrongs and learning to live with them, and sadly this ordinance does not attain that mark.

Ciao

I think circumstances are headed towards right direction. The division between enemies of God and people of Pakistan is well defined now. Politicians and other agents of evil are being attacked by people, wherever they are found. NaPak fouj is shrinking itself into cantonment kennels; and kennels have turned into fortresses with drawbridges up. Cadet calleges and other peon producing factories are under attack and being relocated. I think the evil that has ailed Pakistan for 60 years in the shape of corrupt peon of the west social class is under siege and shows its strength by inhuman acts of massacre, torture, kidnapping, and down right murder. It was written on the wall and the day of reckonning have arrived. Yes it is going to be cruel, devastating, and destructive before it gets better. But Pakistani nation must understand that it is the wages of our collective sins.

#33 Posted by Urstruly on October 6, 2007 8:11:07 am


It was written on the wall and the day of reckonning have arrived.


what are you going to do about it, from detroit, when the paki army demolishes that wall?

I did not that MMA - which bailed out Musharraf again by not dissolving the NWFP assembly- consisted of corrupt peon of the west social class...

I hope my friend Urstruly is not succumbing to the Masada Complex.

urstruly,

..... no need to be so dramatic ! ..... don't forget that al-lah's chief warrior, maulana fazloo, is in musharaff's big tent along with the kanjaroons and the kafiroons ..... given half a chance, the rest of the bearded crowd will also jump on the bread wagon as long as they can get a few crumbs ...... your only hope lies with cave dwellers like osama and baitullah .... unless, of course, tahmed gets a visit from jibreel .......

..... stop fretting and fuming and enjoy the beautiful weather in michigan

Re: # 34

arjun,

...... urstruly is what my kids would call a drama queen !

Re: # 11

Did you know Jayp that Musharraf's real saviour this time around was Maulana Fazl ur Rahman (also known as father of Taliban in some circles) who refused to allow the dissolution of the NWFP assembly and thereby break the electoral college...

Did you know that Maulana's family was the biggest opponent of TNT and a staunch ally of Gandhiji in NWFP?

Did you know that the Maulana's father, Mr. Mufti Mahmood, once famously said: "Thank God we were not part of the sin of making of Pakistan"?

Did you know that the Mufti Sb and his son are the biggest supporters of Sharia-enforcement and have supported every Sharia bill in the country.

Ofcourse it was not Gandhi's fault that Mufti allowed himself to be used by Gandhiji ... just like the Pakistan Army is not responsible that his son is prostituting himself to the army yet again.. God forbid... don't get me wrong..

It was all in Maulana sb's genes.

..i have been saying for a long time that the reason the military is able to dominate pakistan is because it always remains united.......it has been impossible to divide it.....

i have also been saying that if any other institution remained united, it would easily defeat the military in pakistan - with or without guns.....

.....the first example of this was the judiciary.....for the first time in pakistan's history, the judiciary and the lawyers remained united......one cj and a few thousand lawayers gave an unprecedented blow to the military leadership and shook it up......

.......however, the military leadership has once again succeeded in totally dividing the political leadership......the keyword being totally......had the politicians stuck together, they would moved out the army, withtout having to do anything......

however, the military leadership has, successfully, divided the politicians into, not two, but multiple groups.......pml(q) and mqm are on the president's side......half of mma is against the president and half is in between......pml(n), pti etc is against the president........and the key player ppp is with him, while trying to act like it is against him.....even within those who are with the president, pml(q) and ppp hate each other, as do mqm and jui(f)......and ppp and mqm don't like each other also.......

........so now the army is again back in power.......the only group that can disrupt it is the judiciary again......however, the judiciary has (perhaps correctly) singalled to the legislature that is not going to do the politician's dirty work....if the politicians want the army out, they can easily do it on their own.....

......so now the elections will be held.......my guess is, it will be a minority govt.....pml(q) and ppp will win the most seats (legally or throw manipulation)......however, neither will have enough votes to form a govt.....so they will both rely on the army to get them into power......the army will play one against the other, and will control everything from the back ground.......

.........this is the difference between the lawyers and media and the political parties......lawyers and media leaderships are genuinely democratic organizations, which are elected through genunie elections.......anyone can be their head........on the other hand, all the political parties are out and out dictatorships.........a good example is the ppp, which is famous for fighting against military dictatorships, and which is totally going against the traditional ppp agenda, by siding with the govt. to ensure benazir's corruption cases are thrown out.......

.......so my prediction.......the, "moderates" are now totally discredited - this includes ppp, mqm and musharraf........they are in power, but through backroom deals......this will make the religoius right more powerful......

i think urstruly's star is about to rise.......bb is massively corrupt as are the chaudries......musharraf has committed massive constitutional violations, and mqm is fascist........not sure how such a motley crew can rule the country.......even if they represent the liberal face of pakistan and are backed by the usa........

Re: # 35

As it has been told millions of times before - the peon of the West class is not a class in commie sense of the word but it is an ideology or a mental state - a mental state of vassalge that we inherited as a baggage from our colonial past. So a bearded person is not an exception for being in this class. These bearded whores like fazloo, qazi, and other madarchod rif raf chaalees chor all belong to this class. This class thrives on corruption and survives with oppression. They will do whatever it takes to keep this system of corruption, oppression, and vassalage imposed on us. The evidence speaks for itself.

Today the choice is clear before people of Pakistan - either look the other way at what the rebels of God do and hence be a part of this godforsaken system OR fight against this oppression and become party of God.

Re: # 36

It is sad, but I agree with you. Let the truth be told.

Feroz writes "Today, was the day to face reality and admit; we are all guilty. Today, we have to ask ourselves who is to blame if we select these people again? Will we blame the "hidden hand" again, or our own naive emotionalism? Today, we learned what happens to a nation and its people, when they ignore their past experience; change their history and lie to themselves."

This is the general tendency we see in all people who don't have a clue about Pakistani society and its power structure i.e. Blaming the victims, similar to the Israeli elite blaming the Palestinians for "terrorism" when they have occupied an entire country and placed a chokehold on it, created the conditions that lead to hopelessness and acts of petty terror, is what (the miserable) Feroz is doing, and of course doing so out of deliberate design is true evil. His post assumes that institutions in Pakistan are designed so as to translate the people's will into responsible politics when they are anyting but, and his blame makes this "corruption" a personal issue of particular politicians and not an inherent feature of the power institutions of Pakistan, which operate independant of the voice or desires of its people- that is why their suffereing perpetuates from government to government- it is NOT the fault of the people of Pakistan.

The people of Pakistan are struggling to exist in a social structure that offers them below subsistence income for back breaking work. They have no true civil service that would link them to the centers of power, it has been coopted by the power institution the Pakistan Army, the US occupation force in Pakistan. Their political institutions were nipped in the bud before they could establish roots, and before that they were killed enmasse in the farce of the partition that was managed by the Feudals and the Colonials. They have suffered crisis after crisis since the creation of this so-called "nation" and every time the crisis has had external causes. Since they have been robbed of any and all chances of working through the system to cause change, the only hope is in a total restructure from below-i.e. a revolution. The conditions for that have thus far not arisen but are fast approaching. Apathy is the first effect of an impotent social system before the condition of absolute deprivation, revolution only follows thereafter....

bulleya #39 writes "..i have been saying for a long time .."

Verily time has always proved everything right, O Fountain of All Wisdom and Knowledge..We mere chowkies are not worthy of your presence..ommmmmmm..shanti....jai bulleya ki...ommmmmmm.......

hamidm: So urstruly is the drama queen of chowk? And why have you superseded poor masadi with urstruly??!! Aakhir Masadi kay dil main bhi chand arzoo, chand khwashayhaat hain!!

Re: # 40

urstruly,

.... if, as you state, "bearded whores like fazloo, qazi, and other madarchod rif raf chaalees chor all belong to this class", then who will form what you call the "party of god"? ... do you think osama and baitullah will come out of the tora bora on their donkeys and lead the people to victory over the forces of evil ?

... look, stop being so despondent .... as my hero sheikh rashid said this morning, politics "koi bachon ka khel nahin" and those who whine and cry foul and run away cannot win at this game ...... as much as i don't like this unprincipled deal-making, i have to credit bb for playing her hand very well ........ who knows, three years from now she might be able send musharraf packing if she can get all these strange bed fellows to jump into her and repeal article 58 ......

........ pakistani politics is like 20/20 cricket - i love it !

bulleya,

What do you have to say for the apparent divide in MMA... with JUI-F refusing to dissolve the NWFP assembly or resign from it.

Re: # 44

tahmed mian,

... masadi is not a drama queen, he is an idiot who is stuck on his silly elite theory and continues to bay at the moon and chase cars ..... as soon as ferozk gets him a job at the lahore american school, he will shut up ........ urstruly, on the other hand, is a tortured soul who dreams of establishing al-lah's kingdom in pakistan and does his best by praying for it at his mosque in flint michigan ..........

Re: # 42
I will rather agree to it. However there is one point I would like to make. In Pakistan although people do not have any real power even nominally they seldom give any concrete dissenting signals. Mind you at times even apparently "powerless" signals such as coming to streets has a potential to bring about a change.

But over all his point is very valid as the system is extremely skewed towards a privilged few. Even the so called democratic elections even if fairly held will culminate in bringing same people back in power again and again. This is mainly because individual status and connections are extremely important for electoral victory. Parties in order to be pragmatic have a tendency to field powerful candidates particularly in the rural areas. Thus in strange way status quo is largely maintained even through election process.
Some how it really does not matter whether army is in power or not. Elite citizens are always in power. Just take a close look through decades and you will find out that some families were in power during Bhutto, Zia, Benazir, Nawaz Sharif and Musharraf's respective tenors. Its not just army alone, its the entire system which has evolved in a manner that ensures that elites remain in charge. This elite brigade is in partnership with the military junta during Marshal law and operating on their own during "democratic" reigns.

Re: # 46

manto mian,

.... isn't it obvious that fazloo is hoping for a jui government in nwfp without having to share the halwa with another maulvi like qazi? ..... he will share it if he has too, but he can share it with the ppp too - that way he can get a few crumbs at the center .... the mma is dead - i wouldn't be surprised if the mullahs start killing each other soon ........ in this case sectarian violence would be a good thing ....

hamidm sheikh rashid is a debauche bachelor, when somebody asked him why u dont get married he said he wasnt mad to purchase a cow if milk was available in the market


And I know that Imran Khan is stupid, not worldly wise and also a hypocrite but he has one quality that all these swine dont, he cannot be purchased, the guy just cant be bribed and though i have ben opposed to him, i feel if among all these people there was a choice after Musharraf, who all said and done was good for the economy, the freedom of speech and media (which is more than we can say for the democrats Nawaz and BB) it would be Imran.

So if the crown should pass to someones head from Musharraf's it should be Imran but unfortunately i dont see that happening

Re: # 50

borivili,

"sheikh rashid is a debauche bachelor, when somebody asked him why u dont get married he said he wasnt mad to purchase a cow if milk was available in the market"

..... in my book that makes him a very smart man ! ..... it also shows that, unlike most of us, he is capable of finding fresh milk when he wants to .......

sheik rashid zindabad !

hamidm i can also find fresh milk, but the guy is over 50 years old, there is something strange about this guy at that age people look beyond to leaving an heir but he is exceptionally depraved.

Imran too had his fill of milk and milk shake but the guy is honest

Does any one know how much money changed hands?

Politics is no child's game. And politicians’ fight over the money that gets distributed amongst the participants. The free Pakistani press must investigate any info on how much money was passed amongst these people.

O! Is there a free Pakistani press?

Re: # 53

The total amount of money that this harami fouji kutta could not retrieve in 8 years from corrupt politicians and bureaucrates is close to Rs. 1.15 Trillion.

The number of cases that NAB has against corrupt polticians and bureaucrats is 887.

The number of criminal cases such as murder, extortion, and terrorism against ONLY the so called allies of this fouji kanjar are 2370; of which 2311 cases are against MQM alone.

Innalillah e - wa inna ilaihe rajoon.

Re: # 52

borilvili,

.... so what is the problem with sheikh rashid being more than fifty years old ???? .....eh ??? ...... anyone can get go to the store and get fresh milk when they are twenty or thirty - it takes an exceptional man to get fresh milk when they are over fifty ......... and if i remember correctly, our holy prophet (pbuh and his camel) sowed most of his wild oat and drank most of his fresh milk when he was older than sheikh rashid .......

sheikh rashid zindabad !

Re: # 54
urstruly,

... calm down and stop being a wet blanket!.... i honestly think that this 'deal' is the best thing that has happened to pakistan in a long time - the logjam has been broken and may the better man/woman win !

........ i love it !

Ok, hamid, do you seriously think that these people in Islamabad know what real politics is all about! Or is it somewhat like office politics? Or is it social politics? What kind of politics do they know? These people have ruled a society of crazyhadies not because they are some kind of a political genius. A society such as Pakistan, which is full of crazyhadies can only produce leaders precisely because they know that their political skills will not be challenged. Pakistan can only offer the world a lot of crazyhadies from their stock of 170 million “bookhe nangeh lok”.

Tell me, how do you politicize a society where its women or even its men do not believe in wearing under wears?

The real question why cant society cant come up with a single popular leader who isnt some kind of destructive harlot like BB, NS, Altaph, Fazloo etc? Till we address the ridiculous literacy rates and depraved social norms that hold us back nothing will change...at least not for the better.

Re: # 57

bubba,

.... i watch the sunday talk shows on american tv and the pakistani talk shows on geo and ary ...... let me tell you, compared to the pakistani politicians the american yahoos and bubbas are a bunch of amateurs ! ....... on top of that, pakistani talk show hosts like hamid mir, kashif abbassi and others are heads and shoulders above wimps and sissys like tim russert and wolf blitzer ..... the pakistani press is a lot freer than the american media can ever hope to be - no self imposed political correctness or politness standards for us - we call it like we see it !

....... i have no idea what everyone is bitching about - let the good times roll .........

.......... sheikh rashid on kashif's show today:"it is the month of ramzan and i probably shouldn't say this, but these politicians are not fourteen year old virgins that we can seduce them!" ........... i love this man !

sheikh rashid zindabad and to hell with whiners like imran khan !

Re: # 58

Cliftonbridge:

Musharraff is a kind of a lone ranger street fighter. After loosing few in Kargil, he knows which street fights to pick and win. And he is delivering, in Cricket lingo, six sixes in each over he has been playing whoever is the adversary. He epitomizes, the people around him have interests, while others may have friends.

I have said it many times here, that this alliance between largest democratic party and military will bring stability, profound change and even provide a model of badly needed alternative the world citizens expect, to America's Iraqi model, and Ahmadinijad's Iranian model.

The best part is after all this journey thru tora-bora to wana wana to Pakistan Supreme Court to Lal Masjid (= Pakistani Jalianwala bagh) to complexity of democracy simplified Pakistani ishytle to gerrymandering Pakistani ishtyle. I am now bullish about Pakistani youths too. I already have been bullish about "This India" for sometime. They never disappoints. And democracy in Pakistan is going to make sure the army is back in the barracks. Ask Musharraff, he is no fool..

...i cannot see how this partnership between musharraf, chaudries, benazir and altaf bhai can last.......they represent the liberal part of pakistani politics.....though chaudries, are more in the middle, by pakistani standards.....in terms of most to least liberal, i would rank them - mqm, musharraf, ppp, pml(q)....

however, deep down inside they hate each other......army has always hated the ppp, and ppp cadre have always hated the army......mqm has hated ppp, ever since ppp wiped them out in karachi.....chaudhry shujaat's father was chaudhry zahoor, who was assasinated........and chaudries blame ppp for that assasination.........

how are all these guys get along......

......they have one common factor in that they all have crimes that need to be forgiven by the other......mqm has murder cases against it........pml(q) and ppp leaders have been massively corrupt......and musharraf and army have constitutional violations against them.......

but this will not last......much like it was clear nawaz sharif and benazir's charter of democracy would not last.....when this alliance of convenience comes apart then what will happen.......

........the only faction i can see, which can hold together, moreso than others, is the mma.....it has its diffferences between qazi and fazl, but in the end, its votebase has a common vision........and mma is generally far more democratic internally than the liberal parties.......so their leadership cannot simply act solely on its own.......and the mma, generally, is disiplined and does not end up with lotas........

so, this alliance comes apart within the next five years.....army takes over again in the next five to ten years.......and then maulvis get power......i cannot see anything else happening, as the people are totally out of the loop, in this alliance......even the second level leadership of these parties are out of the loop, what to talk of the people......

the only wild card is the chief justice and the supreme court.........

anilji, a most fascinating prognosis. Do you have any time frame in mind for this process to unfold?

re: hamidm2

Hamid sahib, you should hear stories about Sheikh Rashid, circulating, from his college days and everytime an Indian actress comes to Islamabad. ;)

Sheikh Rashid has a political appeal, which is missing from the other politicans and remember he started his politics from the street - therefore the colorful rough edges. He speaks the truth and is blunt about and for that, I admire him.

As to the press, yesterday I sat and watched the TV, skippiing channels, from the early morning till afternoon when the voting eneded. The press anchors, on all channels, had pointed questions and did not let a stray comment go unpunished. They were calling a spade a spade. Especially an interaction between Hamid Mir and a PML-Q MNA.

Hamid Mir, on his show Capital Talk, was showing a clip of Shortcut (Shoukat Aziz)talking about the election day and Shortcut said that except for a minor problem in Peshawar, all was normal. Hamid then said someone; a lawyer, whose name I forget, had both his legs broken and is this what the PM considers as normal? The MNA said Shortcut did not know about incident, when he made the statement and whereupon, Hamid said "are you saying that your PM is not-informed?"

The MNA defended the PM and said Hamid was making news as he went along and Hamid retorted that he was standing by his comment that the PM is not an informed PM.

Pakistani press is a lot freer than it ever was and one must give the devil his dues on this one too. Musharraf freed the press, when Sheikh Rashid was the minister of information...

Ciao

Re: # 59

Ok Hamid, being jingoistic is what you consider being a better politician. Since when have you been so naïve? All of these crooks in Pakistan have been bought out by the mighty dollar and by those who pump these dollars. Even the mighty ZAB was playing the tune of the white elephants. Rest assured there are no politician in Pakistan of the calibre of those who came during and before WWII. These so-called politicians are not there to work on people’s values, aspirations, or dreams.

Today’s so-called political leaders in Pakistan have been bought out either by the Arabs or by any other shade of foreign wealth. Just foaming on TV does not make one a politician. For the past 60 years, these so-called awami leaders have not solved one issue for the 170 million crazyhadies of Pakistan.

Of course Sunday talk shows in america is a bastardise version of modern american politics. It is used as a political venue to propagate the two party propaganda, and the world knows it. The corporate media is just one more leg for the white house or the congress to use in their manipulation of innocent masses.

sri bubbay: specimen like you from india make one realize how much we pakistanis have to be grateful for.

ferozk #63 the more is the pity - musharraf had so much going for him (free press, putting india in its place in 2003), and he blew it all away with his greed for power. now he is doomed to go down in Pakistan history as just another tinput dictator.

hamidm #49 i agree with you here - i have been watching some pakistani TV talk shows, and they are definitely more reasoned and considerate of one another (in terms of letting the other guy speak without interruption) then some of these turkeys on cnn.

Re: bulleya # 61

There are no alliances in Pakistani politics and never will be, because individual interests will always superced politics and personal interests - wish for power - will be always be the deciding factor.

This masquerade will last as long as everyone has a common interest and an outside chance of retaining power and then, the waltz will change partners again to reflect new interests, but the same dance and the same tune will continue; maybe with a slighty varied and a modulated rhythm.

MMA cannot hold together, because Fazl-ur-Rehman and Qazi Hussain Ahmed do not share a similar point of view.Fazl-ur-Rehman's faction has a government in NWFP and an alliance in power in Baluchistan and does not wish to risk them by narrowing his options. Qazi, on the other hand, has no power to retain or risk and thus, can claim to have a principled stand, but when offered political power was too willing to make the pact with the devil, as shown in his conduct during the passage/debate on/over 17th Amendment.

Fazl-ur-Rehman is a politican and he will "rope a dope" to retain power and feels that Qazi has no right, for the sake of his politics, to ruin Fazl-ur-Rehman's political options. There is a divide in MMA. The irony, which was not missed and was pointed on TV, was that it was the MMA government in Peshawar, NWFP, that was beating up the protesting lawyers on Election Day.

MMA is divided because one of its factions supports the government and other does not; one of its leaders is pro-government and other is not. MMA cannot have two leaders in one party and it cannot attack the government's policies while also defending it at the same time.

The best option is, parenthetically speaking, what Anil in post # 60 suggested and that is the emergence of a new political party/power in Pakistani politics. I talked about the "ownership" in politics and what I mean is the Pakistani people will not be handed freedom and democracy on a silver platter, but will have to fight for it and pry it from the hands of status quo that has gripped it since 1947.

Sadly, Pakistani society is a status quo society and given half a chance in the status quo, it will sell out its idealism.

Ciao

if one goes by genuine political credentials, then sheikh rashid fills all of them by pakistani standards.......

he is totally a self-made man......he started off as a street hawker as a boy......from there he became a lawyer (??).....he was a student political leader.....he was jailed on multiple occassions by his opponents, and got his degrees in jail.......

.....he parted company from nawaz sharif, however did not join musharraf during the elections........he won two seats from rawalpindi, on his.......and then joined musharraf........he is considered unbeatable from his constituencies........he left one of his seats, and asked his nephew (??) to contest.....his nephew lost.......

......he, allegedly, personally supported the kashmir struggle, and one of the leaders of the kashmiri leadership, personally, stated this when he came to pakistan.......

sheikh rashid lives in the famous lal haveli in rawalpindi...someone told me that he has or is going to donate the haveli for a women's college.......

ferozek#: "...MMA cannot hold together, because Fazl-ur-Rehman and Qazi Hussain Ahmed do not share a similar point of view...."

...i think a lot of people, who support the liberal parties in pakistan, are hoping the mma falls apart......and the above is their main argument.....

anyone who supports politics and a stable politcal system, should not support or assist in the breaking up of political parties....it is bad for democracy.......even if one disagrees with a political party's agenda, one should defeat it, fair and square, in a vote.......not by breaking it up........

.......while your assertion on differences between fazl and qazi are correct, there is one major difference between religioius parties and with the liberal parties......religious parties, are not, generally, one-man shows, unlike the liberal parties........religious parties are quite a bit more democratic........so the leaders of these parties, do have to listen to their votebase......fazl will have to listen to his votebase.....which is very anti-musharraf and anti-usa.....so he will, eventually have to side with his votebase......even if he doesn't want to......

the other things about the religious parties is that they rarely, if ever, have lotas.......even if they do break up, they will break cleanly along two party lines - jui and ji...each party will not split in half......

and religious party leaders do not have any corruption cases against them.....

liberal parties in pakistan are total dictatorships ......and most of their leaders have so many court cases against them for corruption or murder that they can always be coerced by the military........

pakistan, on the whole, is anti-orthodox religious parties.....but with the backroom deals, and corruption etc. of liberal parties, where they are ready to dance with anyone who can get them in power, i think the public may eventually have no choice left but to go to the religious right.....

smart money is on urstruly, and not on hamidm...................

Frankly, I don’t share the pessimism that is being displayed here. I don’t know why it was not clear to people that if Musharaaf was allowed to contest the elections, he was going to be the only one to win it, and he did. I don’t see the elections as Musharaf’s victory or opposition’s defeat.

The political process in Pakistan has barely begun and we have already seen many stalwarts exposed. I am sure many more would go down in the next few months.

I would like to remind Feroz that the first step towards democracy in Pakistan will always be sharing of power between the civilians and the army. The army will only share it grudgingly. Benazir made some bad calculations but she too was under pressure from the US to make the deal. She will pay a major price for that not only in Punjab but in Sindh too.

Here I will introduce something interesting which apparently hasn’t been touched earlier. Every army regime in Pakistan introduces new political leaders to Pakistan and we get a new set of political characters in politics.

During the ayub regime, all old school politicians disappeared. Bhutto and Mujib emerged as the new leaders of the country. One was nurtured from the inside and the other was groomed or I should say fed from the outside. During the Zia regime another set of politicians emerged. Nawaz was projected from the inside and Benazir was made leader from the outside. They both ended up serving the army for the next ten years.
We did not see a new leadership during the current regime for the simple reason that this regime was too embroiled in the WOT and barely had any incentive to groom another set of leaders.

However, since March 9th Pakistan has seen new leaders emerging. Aitazaz Ahsan, Imran Khan or even the leaders from the lawyers side such as Justice Wajihuddin and the other former Judges as credible leaders. This is a welcome change. These guys have a stellar record in public service and as they gain stature in Pakistani politics, they will, for the first time, form the nucleus of incorruptible leaders that Pakistani body politics desperately needs.

There is dynamism in Pakistani politics. The change was initiated or instigated by the US. It has happened the past and it will happen again. Often people or the interests that instigate the change lose control over the proceedings. I see Pakistan is headed to a phase where the change would create its own leaders. The important part is to continue the process and I think lawyers to a certain extent are committed to continue the process.

The game is not over. We have not even reached the 20 yards line after the kick off yet!

BB is a natural power hungry monster. She will stoop to any level if that sweet post of PM is on the plate. No morals, no ideals, nothing of the sort. She does not care about anyone else but herself.
Plunderers and looters of national exchequer are made saints just by a stroke of pen. What a beauty.
Cry the beloved country..cry.

A cure for pak depression,

As the pakistanis lose their last hope of some kind of accountability from their rulers, and sink into the ravin3es of depression, here is an antidote,

India is a country, pakistan is an experiment, and it must go on till pakistan is finished.

Enlarge the above, past it on all walls, especially by YLH and other so called pakistani patriots.

From dawn of today.

"SOME 59-odd years ago, Mussalman leader Abul Kalam Azad, a genuine true maulana, a profoundly educated man, who habitually and openly imbibed of that God-given fine malt drink and made no bones about it, was heard to murmur one balmy evening, ‘Ummmm, but we must not forget that India is a country whereas Pakistan is an experiment."

Re: # 49

Hamidm,

I suspect Qazi is on board with the strategy.

Just wait and see. Jamaat-e-Islami will not quit the MMA coalition.

Jayp,

The only person depressed here seems to be you. Your constant obsession with the lowly Pakistan and Pakistanis shows us that you are actually very insecure about India.

This is Musharraf's era in Pakistan. Unless the threats from LM are real, Mush is ur Prez for 5 more years.

The criticism of MMA supporting Mush is rubbish. Who didnt support Musharraf? It's a grandslam victory.

The question of propriety was dismissed by the Supreme COurt.

Is that Bernardshaw who siad: 'if rape is inevitable, enjoy it'

??

Good luck guys.

Another non-ordinance.

Pakistan team lost the 20.20 match, and what did they get, more than the indian winning team.

There are no losers in pakistan, all are winners, even the corrupt politicians.

from jang of today


, it is still amazing that the Indian Cricket Board awarded its winning 20:20 team with US$2 million, which if my Sanskrit is right is about 12 crores in Pakistani rupees. However, what do the Indians know about style? Our Board gave its team 20 crores for losing the Championship. Wah! Wah! Wah!

Manto,

I have told you several times, I am a professional pakibasher, a country known over the world for terrorism, and it is expected that they should be bashed.

Contact me at jayp@mossad.com.is

HP #71 That is about the most pertinent post on the subject of this board that I have read.

This (self)election of musharraf is merely the latest in his series of attempts at hanging on to power with the help of smoke and mirrors. The tide of public opinion has turned against him and his defeat in the stand-off with the Chief Justice has nevertheless forced him into power sharing in a number of ways:

1. With one of the previously shunned mainstream parties (PPP);
2. Within the army (where it has become virtually impossible for him to do what he refused to consider upto just a couple of months ago, namely remove his precious wardi, and thus become beholden to his previous subordinates);
3. With the Supreme Court;
4. After January 15, with a newly elected NA which (unless the elections are turned into a sham like yesterday's election) will no doubt serve to reduce Musharraf to a figurehead President even if he were to remain one.

Internationally, he is no longer seen as being the only alternative to islamic extremists - indeed, he is seen as having been a part of the problem in being either ineffective (per his failed "peace deal" with the tribals) or else actually making them stronger (since, his weakening in recent months has resulted in a corresponding weakening of the religious parties and tribals from the mainstream of the Pakistani political scene).

The other original point you make on this board is the emergence of some fresh faces in politics - Aitezaz Ahsan, Wajihuddin in particular. Although too uncertain to say at this point, it does seem that the public is looking for someone other than BB or NS to be the next political leader. The ground is wide open and there is no shortage of honorable and intelligent people more than capable than these individuals of leading the nations in the nation.

So, as you correctly point out - there is every reason to be optimistic. There is even a glimmer of a hope (per his calls for national reconciliation, which may be just another attempt at smoke and mirrors, but at this stage can only be with Musharraf stepping down from power), that Musharraf will realize that his time is up and will still redeem himself by retreating in a more graceful manner than he has fought to hang on to power in recent months.

At least this is my "analysis", inspired by the down-to-earth view of the situation in your post. And no one can really predict where things are headed, so this is simply a "most likely" scenario. :-)

JayP,

Eff the TNT theory. If ur last name is Thackery, thst's even more annoying.

Ur posts are too repetitive.

Khichree World Mix: http://khichree.wordpress.com
___________________________________________
Nati onal Reconciliation goes truly National
___________________________________________

Karachi - Taking a cue from the nation’s enlightened leaders people from different walks of life have decided to jump on the ‘reconciliation’ band wagon. News coming from various corners of the country speak of people coming together to forgive and grant clemency to themselves.

The National Association of Street and Petty Crimes, Karachi Chapter has announced that in the spirit of the newly presented proposal by Pervaiz Musharraf, all its members who have stolen mobiles, snatched cars and killed people over cash between the periods Jan-1985 to Sep-2007 are hereby forgiven.

“We believe in the concept of forgiveness as put by Mr. Musharraf.”, said the chairman of the Karachi Chapter. “Keeping with the honorable president’s call we have decided to forgive ourselves, just like the country’s parliamentarians have come together to forgive themselves.”

“Forgiving ourselves leaves a positive feeling for us. It lightens up any burdens any of us had. We won’t need to smoke pot or hash or drink adulterated alcohol to calm our nerves anymore. We now feel our conscience is as clear as the water of Karachi’s West Wharf.”, he added.

“To all those people whose money and phones and cars we took away, we would like to say that its now over. Lets move on as we have now forgiven ourselves.”, he said. The chairman had a glow on his face as he brandished a brand new Nokia E90 he snatched just in time to be covered by the amnesty. “When I killed the bloke whose E90 this was I got a feeling of uneasiness, despite being high on charas. But now having forgiven myself, I am extremely relaxed and feel happy to use this phone.”

Street Criminal Welfare Associations all over Pakistan have expressed similar sentiments. However some quarters have expressed concern. Some members have been upset that the phones and cars they stole in October are not covered in the amnesty and that they were not given ample time to take advantage. Some members have requested that the amnesty period be extended by a month so they can maximise activity in October 2007.

Steps for a better Pakistan have also been taken by the National Association of Organ Traders, The Muttahida Tax Evaders Alliance, The Jameeat Ahl e Milawat and also by Anjuman Baraey Shor Sharaba (ABSS). Everyone seems to be in the mood to forgive themselves.

President Musharraf and his team of yes-men have welcomed these steps as being steps in the right direction. We want to set the precedent that criminals need not feel the burden of their crimes. Its unfair that a criminal should live with the guilt of a crime. Criminals should be given the opportunity to live a life of respectability. It is their right as citiz