Communists and the Making of Pakistan

That is probably the biggest blunder of the CPI since its inception and it is also worth remembering that CPI was only in its infancy at that time and was trying to drag some land from below the feet of congress. The other factor was Stalin's influence over the world communist affairs at that time who was responsible for dealing with the question of nationalities within the USSR, though there was a big paradox in that.

In theory, the communist ideology supports the right of self determination of all the nationalities, but communist parties of almost all the major communist nations have gone against this principle--China is prime example. But leaving theory behind, on Indian scene, communists have faltered on so many times and the proof is their ever shrinking base.

Nowhere,the communist principle accepts religion to be the basis of a nation.

Kaal
[...we had two incompatible perspectives - that of Congress on one side, and of the Muslim League and the communists on the other...]

yeah - "incompatible perspectives" indeed... commies got wiped out in very system they supported... that's as incompatible as your perspective can get...

Read #19 - Pakiland Movement was a hack-job - the fact that commies supported it proves that even further... it always pays to recognize bad products when you see one... so of course congress didn't buy it... "incompatible perspectives", my foot...

"Pakiland Movement" was basically a hack-job as far as such movements go... it was like hack-jobs bad software engineers sometimes put-out at the last moment before a major release... it would be very effective in short term but will crash and burn the system in long run...

Which is what happened... "Pakiland Movement" was quickly built over a few years by banding together disparate modules of feudals, landlords, unwashed masses and with a somewhat nice "User Interface" (J-man) on the top... there was no compatibilty between the modules, there was no clear specifications, use cases, functionality groups.... it was a classic hack-job...

it worked in the short term, it got the job done... soon after, it crashed... who is suprised?...

That is definitely the Congress view, not the view of the Muslim League or the communists, both of whom obviously viewed the Congress as the spoiler party. :)

Basically, we had two incompatible perspectives - that of Congress on one side, and of the Muslim League and the communists (Muslims and Hindus) on the other.

See - the problem with these "analyses" that YLH vomits out every few weeks is that - it assumes Muslim League was some kind of holy entity whose wishes and demands should have been given any consideration... ML was a gang of feudals and regressive riff-raff who should have been treated with absolute contempt, which is exactly what congress did...

J-man, with his good reputation, did put a respectable facade on this gang of jack-a$$es but that shouldn't and didn't really fool anybody... But then once the banner of islam was adopted and masses were pulled with false promises - there wasn't much congress or anybody else can do about it... except to pull the plug...

Re: # 14
[...then they would continue to face problems even in Pakistan, whose creation they actively worked for...]

Which is what has happened - commies were wiped out in pakiland, whose creation they actively worked for... commies didn't see that coming, they couldn't figure out that they are basically working for their own demise - they are that stupid ... so why should have congress listened to commie proposals?...

And like you said - Muslim league did not get anywhere so long as it was a party of petty feudals... so they picked up the banner of islam to gather mass support... That gave even less reason for congress to compromise... and rightly so...

Communists support for anything is immediate ground for dismissal... commies have been wrong then - and they are wrong now - in most everything they ever do and say...

So the point is moot...

mohar11, in practical terms, the point is that communists continue to live among us.

If they think differently than the rest of us do, we will continue to face unique set of problems from them.

(And if communists reject nationalism for their own ideology, then they would continue to face problems even in Pakistan, whose creation they actively worked for. But probably you were speaking only of India, Mohar?).

Kaal

YLH has a right to bay at the moon... the question is - what's the point?

Kaal

Like J-man himself said, I paraphrase: TNT was born when the first muslim rode his donkey across khyber pass...

So the TNT "seed" is pretty-much organic... There ain't nothing to blame on anyone... it's like a persistent scab on part of the body politic that never really goes away... the choice was to either treat it to keep under control or to expose and pick on it to spread...

The choice was made in 1940's... A limb had to be caught off save the rest of the body...

Yes, and then this party of petty feudals figured out
they could use religion card to incite and excite the
masses to get what they wanted for themselves and it
worked.

mohar, the Muslim league did not get anywhere so long as it was a party of petty feudals, interested in their respective holdings and lands. Besides, YLH has a right to explain to people that the demand for special arrangements for Muslims had the full backing of communists, including communist Hindus.

Yet another example of same-old whining and wishy-washy babbling from YLH... congress did this, congress did that... history would have been this or that...

Congress wanted a united india, but only on their terms... any compromises for sake of "unity" would have compromised the unity itself... it's either that or partition...

Besides - there was no reason for congress to compromise for a bunch of no-good feudals and land-owners ganged up in name of "Muslims League", with no larger mission or vision - except to blackmail and extort privileges for themselves...

It's really that simple...

shah, it may not be possible to figure out who planted the "seeds" of Two Nation Theory.

In India, lots of very different people lived together. One could assign that to Hindu weakeness or Hindu tolerance. Hindu religionists, the Muslim League and the Communists ended up arguing that Muslims were so very different from the rest (or from the majority Hindus) that they could not live together unless very unique arrangements were made specially for Muslims.

There isn't any 'blame' necessary for this view, and certainly not just to apportion it to Mr. Jinnah, if communists too actively supported the making of those special provisions.

Yasser, this is quite interesting, thanks!

if Hindus planted the seed of Two nation theory why did Jinnah bought it lock stock and barrel.

And if TNT was Jinnahs own baby how did it help ALL muslims of he subcontinent.
Muslims lived intimately woven into the fabric of indian villages for thousand of years.


Jinnah is a villain for all Indian Muslims: writer
EXPRESS NEWS SERVICE
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NEW DELHI, April 18: ``Indian Muslims would shed every last drop of their blood before allowing Pakistan to take over Kashmir. There would be a virtual genocide in case of such an eventuality.''
Speaking on the `Challenge before the Indian Muslim in the next millennium', writer Dr Rafiq Zakaria said in these changing times, if the Indian Muslims want to survive, then they have to take help from all quarters.

They have to stop wallowing in their misery and have to give priority to education and upliftment of their community.

Describing Mohammad Ali Jinnah as the `villain of the Independence movement', he said Jinnah had done more damage to India and Indian Muslims than any other medieval ruler and generations of Muslims would curse him.``Jinnah divided the Muslims into three categories -- Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Indian Muslims.

The Biharis in Bangladesh are persecuted and there are frequent reports of massacres of those who migrated to Pakistan and their leader lives in London. The Indian Muslimsare not much better off since the Hindus think that their loyalties lie with Pakistan. In fact, the Indian Muslims hate Pakistan more than the Hindus because they have suffered a lot because of it,'' he pointed out.

He added that a perusal of history showed that the two communities were very close and it was only in the past 150 years that relations between the two communities soured. To restore harmony between the two communities, the Muslim community should reassure the Hindus that they are an integral part of India, who have played an important role in the development of the country and are as proud, as they are, of being Indians.