Whither Pakistan? The Presidential 'Election' and Beyond

Re: # 64
Naqsh Mian you seem to have deliberately overlooked the query made in my post at serial #41. May I know the reason for disappointing me?

Meanwhile kindly let us have your learned comments on an editorial of Daily Times of 14.10.07 reproduced hereunder:

"Drat, three Eids again!

As yet another example of our Islamic “literalism”, we have observed three Eids this year again. Pakistan’s top cleric, the sombre-faced Mufti Munibur Rehman – his name actually means “warner” – first criticised the Saudi authorities for deciding the Eid day without any rules, then declared Eid in Pakistan on Sunday (today). The Saudis announced their Eid on Friday, which led to some Saudi-influenced mosques in London to declare it in unison, and some not so influenced declared it for Saturday. This year Mufti Munibur Rehman was lucky not to have fallen victim to the wrath of his fellow-priests. Some years ago, when he insisted too much on the “rules of sighting”, some ulema from the NWFP had roughed him up!

Muslim scientists have claimed again and again that they can give a mathematically perfect date of appearance of the Shawwal moon many years in advance. They have said that Muslim calendars can actually lay down the Eid days accurately. But no one listens to them: the rule is to see the moon with the bare eye. It is possible that Saudi Arabia has adopted the scientific method without admitting it. But Pakistan uses the weather bureau watch-points for the purpose. Did Pakistan arrive at a consensual Eid? No. After the Saudi announcement, many parts of the NWFP declared Eid on Friday. Some areas settled for Saturday while the rest of the country observed Eid on Sunday. The problem here is not with an obsession with synchronicity but the belief that fasting on Eid day is a cardinal sin. Three Eids this year have ended up making sinners of us all as in every past year, maybe cancelling our accumulated piety in the month of Ramadan."

(Ed 2, Daily Times, 14.10.07.)

khayr mubarak!

Re: # 62

because the Wahabis consider the Sufis (and "Barelvis") as mushriks and are well known for their hatred of Sufi dargahs.
That's why!

I hope it wasn't them though.

Re: # 59 Naqsbhandi,

Why would Wahabis bomb Ajmer? It could have been Phatan Tribal Thinking in Pakistan where they carried out bombing at Nishtar Park but somehow, elements operating in India are 'muslims' and not divided into sects ( that happens when a certain group is in minority ).
btw, I am a direct relative of Sheikh Salim Chishti of Fatehpur Sikri , India where not just muslims of all sects come down but non-muslims comes down to put chadards and duas . I am a Wahabi Convert but respect the Sufi Tradition.
Regards and Eid Mubarak

I say give me Baba Bulle Shah any day over these converters like Ganj Bakshs, Moinuddins etcetera...Baba Bulle Shah saw the goodness in people and unity of humanity and warned against the perfidy of religious bigots...the other so called Sufis just played the numbers game...only gullible idiots like Hindus could be suckered into the shenanigans of these 'godly' men

wow, 90 lakhs kafirs to Islam...amazing feat really...by all accounts, Mr. Chishti seems to have lived in India for around 50 years at a liberal estimate...this translates into 438,000 living hours in Hindustan...of this lets assume that he spent 1/3rd of the time eating, sleeping, meditating, raising a family, praying etc....this leaves 292,000 living hours for proselytizing purposes, which again is quite a liberal estimate to do Mo's work in India...so 90 lakh conversions in 292,000 hours is roughly 31 people in one hour...or roughly 1 kafir per 2 minutes

must say Naqsh bhai, seems like a fast food approach to conversion if you ask me. Either that, or the Chishti PR machine seriously goofed up their math.

as i said in my article, if the SC decides against Mushy he will declare an emergency or martial law.

zeemax,

where did you hear/read about NS's return?

paddu,

I condemn those who bombed the blessed shrine of Khwaja e Khwajagan Hazrat Muinuddin Hassan Chishti Sanjari al ma'ruf ba Gharib Nawaz. They must have been Wahabis or Indian agents as no Sunni would ever bomb the sacred shrine of arguably the greatest saint of Hindustan who himself converted 90 lakh Hindus to Islam.

Now the Pakis are blasting indian malls so that hindu idolators finally accept the 'supremacy' of "their" Islam!!!

Re: # 43

Pakis have tried their best to incite indian muslims to follow the path of violent jehad and shahadat in fighting against hindu idolaters that is taught to them in their school books - poor indian muslims do not think that TNT or jehad is part of their "Islam" - yet Paki muslims want to define for them what their Islam should be and hurl scorn on them for not being Pak 'muslims' as per their Pakistani Islam.
When the scorn does not work they bomb their sufi dargahs trying them to scare them into accepting that ibaadat at dargahs is kufr.

Re: # 43

Pakis have tried their best to incite indian muslims to follow the path of violent jehad and shahadat in fighting against hindu idolaters that is taught to them in their school books - poor indian muslims do not think that TNT or jehad is part of their "Islam" - yet Paki muslims want to define for them what their Islam should be and hurl scorn on them for not being Pak 'muslims' as per their Pakistani Islam.
When the scorn does not work they bomb their sufi dargahs trying them to scare them into accepting that ibaadat at dargahs is kufr.

Re : Kabuli # 52

“non-burkhaed women on the streets and shopping areas in Liberty, were very pretty...moreover, they would look straight at us while I was checking 'em out... “

Good God kabuli! That was a full figured Pakistani male after a shower and shave. Men wear salwar kurta in those parts.

Regards,

Faruk

Re: hamdim2 # 51

You have a right to your opinion, you can decide who you consider a Muslim, and who you consider good looking. All I am saying is I don't think you have to be hairy to be beautiful and nuts to be Muslim.

Regards,

Faruk

re: hamidm2 chacha

I think Pakis should be divided per geography when it comes to looks...based on my travels to Pakistan and my interactions with Pakis in the US and UK, let me elicit my opinion while maintaing that there surely must be exceptions:

lets start with La hore...inspite of what the name might imply, Lahori women indeed are gorgeous....I even saw one lady police constable who was striking...maybe it was putting things in relative...'cause almost all others were mighty sore on the eyes...but generally speaking, the non-burkhaed women on the streets and shopping areas in Liberty, were very pretty...moreover, they would look straight at us while I was checking 'em out...none of that ridiculous sharm and modesty bull...I loved the eye contact...I was very impressed...the Lahori women I come across in the US are at least 8/10 too...but in the US for whatever reason, their male companions are almost always, without fail, butt ugly...I could never fathom why...real delicate knockouts would be with these burly, unwashed, stinky. lumbering men in shopping malls...and even during conversation with the aforementioned stinkies, they would cower and lower their eyes without ever joining in the conversation...quite a contrast with their sisters in Lahore

Karachi women on the other hand are a completely different story looks wise...they are almost always scrawny and their skin and eyes lack any zest or spring...yet, they are convinced for whatever reason that they are drop dead gorgeous even with the clearly discernable layers of paint on their skin...and like faruk bhai has said, quite a few of them sport luxurious moochs...their demeanor however is inversely proportional to their looks...they are very talkative and intelligent...at least the ones in the US

I have never seen a Peshawar or an NWFP woman...do men reproduce asexually in the North West regions of your country?...do they not need the opposite sex?...I am not convinced they exist...I thought I would encounter one on account of my Pathan friend in high school in New Jersey...I went to his house many times to play pirated video games brought from the Dara...but never saw the creatures repleniishing us with delicious kebabs from some dark, mysterious yonder

As for Balochis, I have never met a Balochi man, much less a Balochi woman...why is it that this seemingly endangered species is not more prevalent among the throngs of Pakis one finds at Indian cultural events?...come to think of it, I have never met one Paki Hindu or Paki Christian...ever...do these people not emigrate?...they must really love Pakistan and probably refuse to leave...good for them.

but you are right hamidm2 chacha...the only good things Pakis have going for them are the non-burkhaed women in Lahore with the ravishing eyes.

faruk,

.... you had your chance in '47 to remain part of the ummah - we do not consider you to be a muslim .....you guys are worse than.... than .... ahmedis! ..... if i were you, i would seriously consider reverting back to the hindooisim ........ you cannot run with the macacas and hunt with the hounds ......

... sorry, but no eid mubarak for you .... happy diwali, maybe - that is if you guys stop cheering for the paki cricket team next time it comes to madras ....

#47 Posted by zeemax on October 14, 2007 3:29:56 am


here's the real story behind the 300 surrender monkeys..they didn't "refuse" to fight their fellow muslims...the surrender monkeys surrendered without firing a shot.

BTW, real classy of the paki army and mushy to leak these when the surrender monkeys are still being held..almost as bad as abandoning the bodies on kargil...

8 kidnapped Army officers to face music on release
Major penalty of dismissal from service may be awarded

By Rauf Klasra

ISLAMABAD: Eight military officers including one lieutenant colonel, who were kidnapped by the tribal Taliban along with 240 other military men in August this year, will be facing immediate proceedings of court martial in a military court when freed.

Scandalous inside details of their capture have finally started unfolding as these military men did not fire a single shot while being kidnapped by the militants in the South Waziristan Agency.

This would be for the first time that the eight officers would be produced before a military court on release by the militants ever since the army launched its action in the tribal areas a couple of years back to fight “extremists” and “terrorists”.

The sources said only two officers of the regiment, which was taken hostage by the Taliban, would be spared as they were on leave. Otherwise, the rest of the officers who have been nicknamed as “chicken-hearted” will be facing serious penalties on their freedom.

A lieutenant colonel, who was actually commanding the 240 jawans and reportedly ordered them to lay down their arms before the Taliban to save his own life after a gun was placed on his head, would face the maximum penalty.

A top source claimed that these army officers are facing major penalty of dismissal from service on charges of bringing the Pakistan Army into disrepute as not a single shot was fired by them to resist the armed captors. The source claimed that these officers have actually been dismissed from their services and now simply a formality has been left to complete the process through the court martial on their return.

The source said that one of the major causes in showing disinterest in their release by the GHQ, by applying delaying tactics, was serious annoyance of the top military brass over the shameful manner in which they all simply allowed themselves to be captured without putting any resistance. These sources said by showing complete disinterest in their release for the last three months, these officers and Jawans are being given a loud and angry message by the top military brass that they had done something which was not easy to be ignored and they too should suffer some pain and misery at the hands of their captors.

“This is a clear message to these officers and Jawans that they are no more required to serve in the Pakistan Army as they did not prove themselves soldiers”.

Sources said even President General Pervez Musharraf could not stop himself from expressing his serious disappointment and anger in his interview with BBC the other day. Musharraf is said to have told the foreign media that the kidnapped army men “acted unprofessionally” which showed the level of frustration and anger among the top military brass against these officers and their Jawans.

Sources said these officers were also facing serious charges for setting a bad precedent in the history of Pakistan Army when they ‘surrendered’ before the civilian fighters within the borders of their own country and made the institution of army a laughing stock in the eyes of the world.

When contacted by The News, Director General ISPR Major General Waheed Arshad confirmed that the eight officers among others would face an inquiry on their return, before deciding their fate. General Arshad said an inquiry would definitely be held into the matter to determine the real facts. He said there is a proper mechanism within the military to determine the facts of such serious issues and award punishment to those found guilty. Pakistan Army is a professional institution and a comprehensive probe would be undertaken, he said.

When asked what kind of punishment would be given to these army men for allegedly surrendering to the Taliban elements in the tribal areas, General Arshad replied; “First, please correct yourself. This was not surrender before Taliban elements”.

When asked whether these officers would face proceedings under a court martial, General Arshad said a full-fledged inquiry would be conducted into the whole issue and this was only possible once they returned.

When asked whether these officers had been dismissed from service and now they would be formally proceeded against in the military court, General Arshad replied that he could not say anything at this stage.

Meanwhile, sources claimed that the unfolding details of the capture of these army men have shocked the top military brass. According to information available with The News, no one was ready to believe in the manner in which these military officers, along with 240 army men, were simply trapped and captured by ordinary fighters.

According to initial investigations into the incident, when the military convoy under the command of a lieutenant colonel reached a mountainous area where the road was blocked, these officers were approached by three people who offered them to clear the road. These people even arranged some chairs for the military officers and they all sat there waiting for clearance of the road.

Sources said at one stage these three agents of the Taliban told these army officers that it might not be possible to clear the road unless they bring some people from the adjacent village to help them remove the obstacles. Upon this, these officers agreed and asked them to bring some manual support from the adjacent village. These three men returned with dozens of villagers who were wearing shawls to hide their weapons.

These military officers sitting quite comfortably on the chairs, with their guns allegedly lying on the grounds, had no idea what was about to unfold. The rest of the 240 military men too were sitting in their vehicles, waiting for these villagers to do some tricks and clear the road. When the Taliban approached these officers on the pretext of knowing what had actually happened, some of them simply pulled out their guns at these “relaxing officers” and told them to order their subordinates to surrender.

The officer leading the whole military convoy, when pushed with the gun, simply asked his 240 military men to drop their guns. These Taliban did not waste time in collecting the dropped weapons of the army men and took all of them into their custody after what the report called “a humiliating surrender”.

Sources said the news of capture of such a large number of army men by civilian fighters had a very negative impact on the mindset and approach of the rest of the officers and military officers serving in the tribal areas. That is why now strict punishment would be awarded to these army officers and Jawans for bringing the military into disrepute as an institution. Their act also boosted the morale of the Taliban fighting the Pakistan Army in the tribal areas.