Whither Pakistan? The Presidential 'Election' and Beyond

Now the Pakis are blasting indian malls so that hindu idolators finally accept the 'supremacy' of "their" Islam!!!

Re: # 43

Pakis have tried their best to incite indian muslims to follow the path of violent jehad and shahadat in fighting against hindu idolaters that is taught to them in their school books - poor indian muslims do not think that TNT or jehad is part of their "Islam" - yet Paki muslims want to define for them what their Islam should be and hurl scorn on them for not being Pak 'muslims' as per their Pakistani Islam.
When the scorn does not work they bomb their sufi dargahs trying them to scare them into accepting that ibaadat at dargahs is kufr.

Re: # 43

Pakis have tried their best to incite indian muslims to follow the path of violent jehad and shahadat in fighting against hindu idolaters that is taught to them in their school books - poor indian muslims do not think that TNT or jehad is part of their "Islam" - yet Paki muslims want to define for them what their Islam should be and hurl scorn on them for not being Pak 'muslims' as per their Pakistani Islam.
When the scorn does not work they bomb their sufi dargahs trying them to scare them into accepting that ibaadat at dargahs is kufr.

Re : Kabuli # 52

“non-burkhaed women on the streets and shopping areas in Liberty, were very pretty...moreover, they would look straight at us while I was checking 'em out... “

Good God kabuli! That was a full figured Pakistani male after a shower and shave. Men wear salwar kurta in those parts.

Regards,

Faruk

Re: hamdim2 # 51

You have a right to your opinion, you can decide who you consider a Muslim, and who you consider good looking. All I am saying is I don't think you have to be hairy to be beautiful and nuts to be Muslim.

Regards,

Faruk

re: hamidm2 chacha

I think Pakis should be divided per geography when it comes to looks...based on my travels to Pakistan and my interactions with Pakis in the US and UK, let me elicit my opinion while maintaing that there surely must be exceptions:

lets start with La hore...inspite of what the name might imply, Lahori women indeed are gorgeous....I even saw one lady police constable who was striking...maybe it was putting things in relative...'cause almost all others were mighty sore on the eyes...but generally speaking, the non-burkhaed women on the streets and shopping areas in Liberty, were very pretty...moreover, they would look straight at us while I was checking 'em out...none of that ridiculous sharm and modesty bull...I loved the eye contact...I was very impressed...the Lahori women I come across in the US are at least 8/10 too...but in the US for whatever reason, their male companions are almost always, without fail, butt ugly...I could never fathom why...real delicate knockouts would be with these burly, unwashed, stinky. lumbering men in shopping malls...and even during conversation with the aforementioned stinkies, they would cower and lower their eyes without ever joining in the conversation...quite a contrast with their sisters in Lahore

Karachi women on the other hand are a completely different story looks wise...they are almost always scrawny and their skin and eyes lack any zest or spring...yet, they are convinced for whatever reason that they are drop dead gorgeous even with the clearly discernable layers of paint on their skin...and like faruk bhai has said, quite a few of them sport luxurious moochs...their demeanor however is inversely proportional to their looks...they are very talkative and intelligent...at least the ones in the US

I have never seen a Peshawar or an NWFP woman...do men reproduce asexually in the North West regions of your country?...do they not need the opposite sex?...I am not convinced they exist...I thought I would encounter one on account of my Pathan friend in high school in New Jersey...I went to his house many times to play pirated video games brought from the Dara...but never saw the creatures repleniishing us with delicious kebabs from some dark, mysterious yonder

As for Balochis, I have never met a Balochi man, much less a Balochi woman...why is it that this seemingly endangered species is not more prevalent among the throngs of Pakis one finds at Indian cultural events?...come to think of it, I have never met one Paki Hindu or Paki Christian...ever...do these people not emigrate?...they must really love Pakistan and probably refuse to leave...good for them.

but you are right hamidm2 chacha...the only good things Pakis have going for them are the non-burkhaed women in Lahore with the ravishing eyes.

faruk,

.... you had your chance in '47 to remain part of the ummah - we do not consider you to be a muslim .....you guys are worse than.... than .... ahmedis! ..... if i were you, i would seriously consider reverting back to the hindooisim ........ you cannot run with the macacas and hunt with the hounds ......

... sorry, but no eid mubarak for you .... happy diwali, maybe - that is if you guys stop cheering for the paki cricket team next time it comes to madras ....

#47 Posted by zeemax on October 14, 2007 3:29:56 am


here's the real story behind the 300 surrender monkeys..they didn't "refuse" to fight their fellow muslims...the surrender monkeys surrendered without firing a shot.

BTW, real classy of the paki army and mushy to leak these when the surrender monkeys are still being held..almost as bad as abandoning the bodies on kargil...

8 kidnapped Army officers to face music on release
Major penalty of dismissal from service may be awarded

By Rauf Klasra

ISLAMABAD: Eight military officers including one lieutenant colonel, who were kidnapped by the tribal Taliban along with 240 other military men in August this year, will be facing immediate proceedings of court martial in a military court when freed.

Scandalous inside details of their capture have finally started unfolding as these military men did not fire a single shot while being kidnapped by the militants in the South Waziristan Agency.

This would be for the first time that the eight officers would be produced before a military court on release by the militants ever since the army launched its action in the tribal areas a couple of years back to fight “extremists” and “terrorists”.

The sources said only two officers of the regiment, which was taken hostage by the Taliban, would be spared as they were on leave. Otherwise, the rest of the officers who have been nicknamed as “chicken-hearted” will be facing serious penalties on their freedom.

A lieutenant colonel, who was actually commanding the 240 jawans and reportedly ordered them to lay down their arms before the Taliban to save his own life after a gun was placed on his head, would face the maximum penalty.

A top source claimed that these army officers are facing major penalty of dismissal from service on charges of bringing the Pakistan Army into disrepute as not a single shot was fired by them to resist the armed captors. The source claimed that these officers have actually been dismissed from their services and now simply a formality has been left to complete the process through the court martial on their return.

The source said that one of the major causes in showing disinterest in their release by the GHQ, by applying delaying tactics, was serious annoyance of the top military brass over the shameful manner in which they all simply allowed themselves to be captured without putting any resistance. These sources said by showing complete disinterest in their release for the last three months, these officers and Jawans are being given a loud and angry message by the top military brass that they had done something which was not easy to be ignored and they too should suffer some pain and misery at the hands of their captors.

“This is a clear message to these officers and Jawans that they are no more required to serve in the Pakistan Army as they did not prove themselves soldiers”.

Sources said even President General Pervez Musharraf could not stop himself from expressing his serious disappointment and anger in his interview with BBC the other day. Musharraf is said to have told the foreign media that the kidnapped army men “acted unprofessionally” which showed the level of frustration and anger among the top military brass against these officers and their Jawans.

Sources said these officers were also facing serious charges for setting a bad precedent in the history of Pakistan Army when they ‘surrendered’ before the civilian fighters within the borders of their own country and made the institution of army a laughing stock in the eyes of the world.

When contacted by The News, Director General ISPR Major General Waheed Arshad confirmed that the eight officers among others would face an inquiry on their return, before deciding their fate. General Arshad said an inquiry would definitely be held into the matter to determine the real facts. He said there is a proper mechanism within the military to determine the facts of such serious issues and award punishment to those found guilty. Pakistan Army is a professional institution and a comprehensive probe would be undertaken, he said.

When asked what kind of punishment would be given to these army men for allegedly surrendering to the Taliban elements in the tribal areas, General Arshad replied; “First, please correct yourself. This was not surrender before Taliban elements”.

When asked whether these officers would face proceedings under a court martial, General Arshad said a full-fledged inquiry would be conducted into the whole issue and this was only possible once they returned.

When asked whether these officers had been dismissed from service and now they would be formally proceeded against in the military court, General Arshad replied that he could not say anything at this stage.

Meanwhile, sources claimed that the unfolding details of the capture of these army men have shocked the top military brass. According to information available with The News, no one was ready to believe in the manner in which these military officers, along with 240 army men, were simply trapped and captured by ordinary fighters.

According to initial investigations into the incident, when the military convoy under the command of a lieutenant colonel reached a mountainous area where the road was blocked, these officers were approached by three people who offered them to clear the road. These people even arranged some chairs for the military officers and they all sat there waiting for clearance of the road.

Sources said at one stage these three agents of the Taliban told these army officers that it might not be possible to clear the road unless they bring some people from the adjacent village to help them remove the obstacles. Upon this, these officers agreed and asked them to bring some manual support from the adjacent village. These three men returned with dozens of villagers who were wearing shawls to hide their weapons.

These military officers sitting quite comfortably on the chairs, with their guns allegedly lying on the grounds, had no idea what was about to unfold. The rest of the 240 military men too were sitting in their vehicles, waiting for these villagers to do some tricks and clear the road. When the Taliban approached these officers on the pretext of knowing what had actually happened, some of them simply pulled out their guns at these “relaxing officers” and told them to order their subordinates to surrender.

The officer leading the whole military convoy, when pushed with the gun, simply asked his 240 military men to drop their guns. These Taliban did not waste time in collecting the dropped weapons of the army men and took all of them into their custody after what the report called “a humiliating surrender”.

Sources said the news of capture of such a large number of army men by civilian fighters had a very negative impact on the mindset and approach of the rest of the officers and military officers serving in the tribal areas. That is why now strict punishment would be awarded to these army officers and Jawans for bringing the military into disrepute as an institution. Their act also boosted the morale of the Taliban fighting the Pakistan Army in the tribal areas.

Re: hamdim2 #45

“........ no eid mubarak for you ! “

It take a lot for a good Muslim to say that to anyone, I guess they did not let you drink this eid.

What can I say I just don't share your sense of beauty. Its just like it is with the veggie eaters, they get the veggies and I get the meat.

A toast to your good health and I hope you get your sense of humor back,

Faruk

Whither Pakistan, the author asks. Most likely, it will become a huge parking lot with sand melted into glass by the heat of nuclear weapons if the trend described in this article continues.

From today's Los Angeles Times:

Terrorists in training head to Pakistan

By Dirk Laabs and Sebastian Rotella, Special to The Times
October 14, 2007
ULM, GERMANY -- As Al Qaeda regains strength in the badlands of the Pakistani-Afghan border, an increasing number of militants from mainland Europe are traveling to Pakistan to train and to plot attacks on the West, European and U.S. anti-terrorism officials say.

The emerging route, illuminated by alleged bomb plots dismantled in Germany and Denmark last month, represents a new and dangerous reconfiguration. In recent years, the global flow of Muslim fighters had shifted to the battlefields of Iraq after the loss of Al Qaeda's Afghan sanctuary in late 2001.

"There have always been people going to Pakistan, but it is more frequent now," said a senior French intelligence official who, like others interviewed for this report, spoke on condition of anonymity. "There is a return. It is a cycle. . . . And you have the attractive phenomenon that all the big chiefs of Al Qaeda are there."

Unlike Iraq, where foreign fighters plunge quickly into combat, recruits in Pakistan are more likely to be groomed for missions in the West. Aspiring holy warriors drawn to the Pakistani-Afghan border region today include European converts and militants from Arab, Turkish and North African backgrounds, investigators said.

"Pakistan worries me more than Iraq," a top Belgian anti-terrorism official said. "It's true that Iraq scares them a bit because many of them end up getting strapped up with the explosive belt right away. In Pakistan, they have time to be trained as operatives."

But the path is not straight or easy. In the German case, at least a dozen suspects meandered among Koranic schools in Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Syria, then traveled through Iran into Pakistan. Several suspects were detained by Pakistani authorities en route to training camps, their seemingly improvised, sometimes amateurish odysseys contrasting with their alleged ferocity.

In the past, the main threat from that part of the world has involved young men from Britain's large Pakistani diaspora targeting Britain and the United States. In a half-dozen plots since 2003, British operatives trained in Pakistan, made contact with fugitive Al Qaeda leaders and returned home to strike. They succeeded in July 2005, when the first suicide bombings in Western Europe killed 52 people aboard the London transport system.

In contrast, extremists from North African and Arab immigrant communities in Germany, France, Spain and Italy have been more likely to join networks based in North Africa or the Iraq region.

But today, even small countries such as Belgium, Denmark and Switzerland have detected non-Pakistani extremists going to Pakistani training outposts, officials say. Pakistani immigrant communities in mainland Europe are smaller than Britain's, but could serve as conduits to the networks, police say.

In Spain, radical Pakistani imams and recruiters are muscling into predominantly North African mosques, a senior Spanish anti-terrorism official said. In Italy, Moroccan and Tunisian extremists communicate by Internet with extremists in Pakistan in an effort to show they are major players, an Italian anti-terrorism official said.

These new links, combined with the unprecedented plots against Germany and Denmark, show a gathering menace, the official said.

"I think that Europe has been at extremely high risk during the past six months," he said. "First, because many fighters have returned from Iraq. Second, because of the real problem of Pakistan."

In the Danish case, the leader of an alleged cell was trained by Al Qaeda in Pakistan in an apparent plot to kill Danish civilians, partly as revenge for the publication of caricatures of the prophet Muhammad, anti-terrorism officials say. In the German case, police in September arrested three suspects accused of assembling 1,500 pounds of explosive materials for vehicle bombings near U.S. military bases. The trio allegedly took orders from Islamic Jihad Union, an Al Qaeda ally based in Pakistan.

Although not a crime under German law, training in a foreign militant camp is a vital step in radicalization. The idea of the journey itself has ideological resonance, evoking Muhammad's flight from Mecca to Medina in the 7th century.

The German case is a reminder of the loose, almost anarchic workings of a radical underworld; extremists need time, perseverance and initiative.

"It is very organic, not planned or structured," a German intelligence official said. "It's the chaos principle, just as Al Qaeda has always been chaotic. It is about chance. No one sits somewhere in the Hindu Kush with a map and draws circles on it and says: This is where we have to send people."

The path began in this town near Stuttgart, where a mix of German converts and Arab and Turkish immigrants coalesced in an alleged extremist cell at a notoriously radical mosque. They made contact with their Egyptian imam's son-in-law, who directed the Qortoba Arabic-language school in the Egyptian city of Alexandria, intelligence officials say. Starting in 2005, the three main suspects spent time at the Alexandria school.

Even if many teachers and students are not violent fundamentalists, Arabic and Koranic schools in the Middle East are classic gateways of radicalization for European Muslims. German suspects also attended such schools in Saudi Arabia and Syria and roamed in Turkey, investigators say, drifting abroad for months at a time.

It is believed that Fritz Gelowicz, the accused ringleader, met a key contact at a Koranic school in Damascus, Syria, in 2005: a militant from the Baluchistan region of Pakistan who became the liaison to the camps, an anti-terrorism official said.

In March 2006, Gelowicz and two other suspects trained at a camp in the lawless Waziristan region, according to Pakistani and U.S. intelligence provided to German investigators. Intelligence reports indicate that a German-speaking trainer worked with some German suspects, an anti-terrorism source said.

Investigators say the training camp was near the city of Mir Ali, which has seen heavy fighting in recent days as Pakistani forces clash with Al Qaeda and Taliban militants. The suspects used a variety of contacts and routes. But they all entered Pakistan via Iran, German investigators say. In Iran, with its heavy security force presence, it seems unlikely that those forces would not spot foreign militants in transit, particularly German converts, investigators said. Iranian authorities either looked the other way or were complicit, they said.

"It's impossible for them to cross Iran without help," the Italian anti-terrorism official said. "I think it implies support from the Iranian authorities."

The attitude of Shiite Iran toward Sunni Al Qaeda has been ambiguous. Iranian authorities have arrested some Al Qaeda figures and protected others, seeing the terrorist network as a useful weapon against the West, anti-terrorism officials say.

The role of the Koranic school in Syria raises similar questions. Several European investigations have identified schools in Damascus as busy gateways where foreign fighters, posing as students, make contact with operatives who help them join the Iraqi insurgency. That recruitment and logistical activity has the permission or involvement of Syrian spies, European investigators say.

As the plot gathered momentum early this year, a second wave of associates set off from Germany. But U.S. and German police had begun intense surveillance, and Pakistani police were on alert. During the first half of the year, Pakistani authorities arrested seven militants.

Their futile treks suggest that there is no smooth and sophisticated pipeline to the camps.

On June 10, two alleged key figures in the group made it only a few miles across the Pakistani border before their capture at a bus stop. Tolga Duerbin and Houssein al Malah had met a contact in Tehran, paid $100 to a smuggler in an Iranian border town, and were carrying satellite phones and fake Afghan IDs when they were caught, according to investigators and a defense lawyer.

Pakistani police locked them in an underground prison in Islamabad, the capital, blindfolded them and grilled them about associates in Germany, said Duerbin's lawyer, Michael Sertsoez. Duerbin said American agents were present during interrogations, the lawyer said.

Like most of those arrested in Pakistan, the two were eventually deported. Duerbin is in jail in Germany, accused of recruiting the leader of the group, while Al Malah and another suspect are free and being monitored.

But police continue hunting for three accomplices thought to be on the loose in Europe and Turkey, potentially dangerous veterans of the path to Pakistan.

A bullet-proof Pope Mobile has been prepared for BB ... but that won't help her. The army is asking for safe exit out of Waziristan but that ain't coming either. There are half a dozen cases coming up for trial and SC may have somewhere to hide in some, but not all. NS has announced arrival before 30 November with Saudi go-ahead and nothing but a martial-law can stop him this time around.

That's what will happen 'beyond'. The army will kiss up (Waziristan) and kick down (rest of Pakistan).

[quote]
Out of the hundreds of thousands of religious scholars in Pakistan there are almost certainly many individuals who would fit the bill of the model Islamic ruler of which the masses dream, someone like Sultan Salahuddin: pious, ascetic, generous, just, brave, knowledgeable, independent. All that is needed is just one such individual to come forward. Given the popularity of Usama Bin Laden already in Pakistan, one can imagine the popularity of a homegrown version who also happened to follow the mainstream branch of Islam which most Pakistanis adhere to.
[\quote]

Sigh, maybe Naipaul was right, there is something in the conversion process to islam that results in basic buddhi becoming bhrashht...

Re: # 43

faruk,

.... stop trying to be more hindoo than the veggie-eaters ! ....... i have always maintained that the only thing worse than a indian hindoo is a grovelling snivelling indian muslim ......

........ no eid mubarak for you !

Re: # 43 - you must have went to a village , where you father must have migrated ! even paindo's are becoming metrosexuals!!!
eid mubarak!

Re : hamdim2 #39

I posted this on another board, I guess you missed it.

I think the Pakistanis have developed their own sense of beauty, I remember the first time I went there as a teenager, their women had more facial hair than me. The women had two types of physiques one reminded me of scare crows the other of water buffaloes. The fair complexion they talk about is the color of a lizard just out of hibernation.

The women wear burkha's and the men wear beards, that does cover a lot..I thank Allah for his small mercies.

The Pakistanis can thank him for their sheep.

I must admit some men had good figures...


Eid Mubarak,

Faruk

Ref jang #10

[i like the dinar idea..do you think india should also do the same considering it has so many muslims?]

Sigh..... for a long long time, the legal tender of the Gulf States was the Pound Sterling and the Indian Rupee. One could fly through Dubai and buy Coca Cola at the airport store with Indian rupees as I myself have done. Dhirubhai Ambani is supposed to have made a small fortune by buying up Indian rupee coins (silver) at face value when he was in Yemen and melting and selling them as bullion.

From that, we have come down to exchanging our rupee for the dinar. Truly, how far have the mighty fallen when led by effeminate faggots!