Can Religious Leaders Redeem the Future of the World?

Zeemax sahib,

Re: #25

Basically Kanjarooon v/s Havayooooon.

Where wud u put countries like China, Japan and Korea in this debate? On the side of kanjarooons or havayoooons?

Regards

The backlash against muslims post 9/11 has been there in Europe if rather subtle, from planning permission for new mosques to tighter immigration laws. Unlike US, muslim countries are on the doorstep of Europe so for this reason it has to be very careful not to antagonise them, it relies on them for its energy needs, also maybe in the near future for its manpower needs, because Europe’s population is ageing fast for it to maintain its living standards it would have to import upto 50m people in the next 20 to 30 years, unless ofcourse there is new technology which would do the work of humans.

These 138 are totally off the mark. They're probably all 'sufis'.

These are neither crusades nor is this a war between Islam and Christianity as a faith. It is between the Muslim apostate regimes and some of their peoples aligned with western powers of whatever faith (or none) who're looking for raw materials to produce plentiful useless goods in excess of their own markets, and then someone to consume this excess production of useless goods by making them adapt their cultures towards this end; and between those Muslim folks who have an alternate politico - economic system ingrained in their faith, and want control of their markets, don't want this junk, don't want to abandon their cultures, and don't want to have to keep dishing away their resources to those who manufacture the junk just to keep the standards of living up in their own lands - while at the same time hanging on tight to any worthwhile technology.

In short, it is all about 'globalization'.

However, Islam is the ONLY motivational force in existence to withstand and resist this onslaught, and therefore its lethal version has bared its fangs. Beware when this happens because nothing will stop it before it achieves its ends.

An extract from a previous UP thread is relevant:

Bhai, this conflict is NOT about Islamic ideology. It is about foreign occupation of Afghanistan which is only another country in you liberals' puny dumb minds but the SAME country for the FATA tribals (they don't give a rat's ass about Durand Line). They're fighting for its liberation and you apostate Pakistanis are killing them (and their schoolgirls, and their old and young) for their doing that. This is totally unacceptable for them. Their terms of staying loyal to Pakistan since the very outset mandate NO Pakistan army inside their territory. If you send it there, they will kill your army. Period.

Secondly, the larger conflict in the rest of the Islamic world (Terrorists? Fundamentalists?) is also not about Islamic ideology. It is all about resisting the projection of US military power in Muslim regions to maintain the US single political & economic system, which is considered by large segments of their populations as exploitative.

Islam is an alternative politico-economic system to the US type Capitalism, PLUS a huge motivating force in the rationale for violent Jihad. That's why the resistance has taken an Islamic form. However, religion was never either the initiator nor the raison' detre for it to begin with.

What a waste,

The 138 muslim scholars instead of writing to the pope, should have declared that there is nothing like a muslim world, the sunnis are killing teh shias, the tribal muslims of pakistan are killing the mulsim punjabi soldiers, the arb mulsims of sudan are killing the black muskims of sudan ( evry much in line with pak penchant for their beauty and fair colour )

Secondlly they should declare that the 9/11 achieved nothing for the muslims.

The london bombers and their trainers in pakistan should be prosecuted.

That would have been a good indication that the muslim scholars have joined the civilisation.

It is pathetic that such irrelevant propaganda about the actions of ignorant mullahs gets the bandwidth on chowk.

Gill saab please do try to stop this types of wrticles.

These 138 Mullahs are blood sucking parasites and need to be made to earn for their living than fantasizing about the rest of the non muslim world paying jizya to them after acepting dhimmitude!!!

Mohammad Gill

Teshah ji has a bit of an unusual take on matters of religion.

One is guessing, teshah ji thinks of this 'letter' as an offer by one bunch of medievalistic bigots (in his view) to another bunnch of medievalistic bigots (again, in his view) to arrive at a mutual accommodation, that would then allow both of them to divide up the world among themselves.

teshah ji seems to see this not as any effort to "redeem the future of the world", but as a proposal to jointly mess up that future for all others, but themselves.

teshahji, please correct me if I misunderstood you.

---------------

Mohammad Gill, you can debunk teshah ji's theory by showing clearly how these Muslim Scholars are interested in securing the future of the entire world and not merely in gaining the support of medievalist Christianity.

(not having read the letter myself, don't know whether teshah ji is right or not)

BAN BRAINWASHING!
CELEBRATE TRUTH!

The West would feign surprise that their arsenal of nuclear weapons and stockpiles of other WMDs is seen by the Muslim world as a threat to it and would counter with an assertion that on the contrary any technology acquired by the later is an absolute disaster to the West if not to the world at large. Hence the song and dance and protests against Iran’s efforts for example, to acquire nuclear technology. In spite of its repeated assurance of it being for peaceful energy generation.
It is generally stated that the West in this regard employs double standards. This suggests that there is some kind of standard in the first place. It is obvious that there isn’t any standard at all!
In layman’s terms, wasn’t there an assurance given in a treaty that the Nuclear Club would dismantle its nuclear arsenal by 1997? One understands from the ex-UN Ambassador Richard Butler, that by 2005 the signatories have not even started the process of dismantling their weapons! And perhaps not even now. Instead we now have additional so called nuclear rogue States, although some are considered friendly and others as Evil States.
Why does not the West realise that by erroneously and misguidedly singling out the Muslims as anti Western and its reaction to the injustices perpetrated in, say the Palestine-Israel issues among others in the Muslim world, the West is creating the atmosphere of hatred with religious overtones. The language of this particular US Administration with terms like the Crusade and Evil etc and turning once Muslim friends into enemies is the main source of the state the world has degenerated into today where Christians, Muslims and every body else is suffering.
No the religion and religious leaders have nothing to do with the situation. For there is a LOT IN COMMON WITH THE TWO FAITHS, except the politicians.
Rashid

tehshah:
Although I generally agree with what you wrote about mullahs, yet if they suggest to do some good through their religious influence on the masses, why should we denigrate it? Howsoever hard you may berate them stereotypically, it is a fact that they have greater influence on the masses than the highly enlightened (!) people like you and me. And if they purport to use their influence for a good cause why should we put them down? We should not prejudge and become purposelessly doomsayers.
The intent of the letter that the religious leaders wrote is good. Whether they'll deliver the purported good, we've to wait and see. They will hardly worsen the existing situation which already seems to be at its worst.
If anybody intends to try to produce peace through peaceful means, I support him (her) no matter who he (she) is. We have been brought to the existing apocalyptic juncture by a propaganda of hate; let us try to move away from it and advocate peaceful means for seeking peace. It is better to talk than to bomb.
Mohammad Gill

It is sheer nonsense I did not expect from Mr. Gill.

As Allama Iqbal had said:

"Deen-e-Mullah (professional religion abusers, misnamd 'Ullema') fi sabilillah fassaad"

It would be a bad day for the world civilization if they both, the Islamic and Christian Mullah, get together.

Also, I want it to be noted that I agree with most of what masadi the fasadi writes. Other than his anger directed at gentle souls like Gill sahib and Dr. Sohail. I also support his fury at Manto, for I think that cretin truly deserves it.

Jeeyo masadi jeeyo ...
with much respect,
thinking storm

masadi writes: "First let me begin by saying that the author, who mass produces articles on here, has again produced a tape recorderesque, banal, nonsensical article that helps cloud the issues rather than fix any problems."

Yaar masadi, please append that to your signature, but change the author to (Mohammad Gill and Dr.Sohail)... look at my signature for inspiration :D

No offence Gill sahib, I think this article is a worthy one indeed.
with much respect,
thinking storm

Dr. Gill,

I agree with ur opinion - each and every word of it.

Such letters in themselves can not stop the war and herald a peaceful era because the political power and the decision-making authority is not in the hands of the religious leaders who wrote the letter. They however can certainly help to change the propaganda of hatred which is fuelling the fires of the war and consequent violence. Under the present circumstances, those who vie for peace are considered unrealistic ideologues which is simply unfortunate. The clash of civilizations can not create a peaceful ambience for any one. Violence begets violence. It is very dangerous and can lead to a global conflict with nuclear weapons. True, the Muslim world doesn't have the nukes but an expanded conflict will not necessarily remain confined to the west and the Muslim world. It might drag in other conutries as well.
In my opinion, war is not the solution to any thing; it is, on the other hand, a pathway to global destruction. If homo-sapiens want to sutvive, they will need to learn to live in peace.
The response of Archbishop of Canterbury is encouraging and if he and the other religious leaders, Christian and Muslim, continue to preach and practice peace among their communities and condemn violence, the existing heightened climate of hatred might be scaled down.
Mohammad Gill

#11 Posted by Naqshbandi on October 15, 2007 12:36:52 pm

Bhai,

I beg to differ.

There's a landmark accord btw Shias and Sunni clerics in Iraq not so long ago. Had the polarisation stopped there?

U know very well the western societies are not under the spell of clergy. If u remember Pope spoke against Lebanon and Iraq in the past. Has Israel stopped it offensive or Bush halted his hold on Iraq?

These rapproachment btw the religious heads wud add to atmospherics. There wont be any meaningful result out of such accords.

Prolly a constant hammering abt the Jews, Muslims and Christains being the children of Abraham/Ibrahim wud bring some perspective in this world. Not much though.

The author writes "Even if the Pope responds positively, it will not immediately stop the ongoing warfare, but it will be a first step in the right direction. "

First let me begin by saying that the author, who mass produces articles on here, has again produced a tape recorderesque, banal, nonsensical article that helps cloud the issues rather than fix any problems.

Now, when we know that this letter is the work of idiots who want to crystallize into reality, the mythical war that does not exist in the world while at the same time legitmizing the Huntington thesis-which is a bunch of BS- as well as obfuscating the real issues that of the US elite maintaining their hegemony at the expense of the rest of the world. So, why is the US media so fascinated with this letter. On the one hand they don't want to show Musilms in a conciliatory mode, so they say it contains veiled threats and on the other they want to show that this farce the WOT is actually a war between civilization (Christian) and an ideology of hate (Islam). They get to have their pie and eat it too thanks to the work of some idiots who want to play Captain Kirk by writing grand letters, with their mind stuck in the Middle Ages where the Church dominated the scene but now is valued less than a backyard sewer as far as determining global affairs of consequence.... The US started this farce, they fueled this farce, they have institutionalized this farce and part of that farce is this back and forth about Islam- neither Islam nor Christianity have anything to do with this WOT or the global security situation, whatsoever....