Can Religious Leaders Redeem the Future of the World?

tahmed32:

Your views are as important as that of urstruly or masadi or naqsh because, like them, you have a unique viewpoint on Islam and one much more like some of us non-muslims would like Islam to be.

As for my saying that you are uncritical of the west, I am too lazy to dig up old posts but, as I recall, you were always in favour of the US bombings of Iraq and Afghanistan, which were bound to create a lot of innocent people getting killed and defended the US as vigorously as you defend Islam. I especially recall our engagement before the US attacked Iraq and our disagreement as to the intent of the US in undertaking its Iraq mission.

Now, I am not on the chowk 24/7 and so may have missed any posts from you critical of the West. If so, please reproduce them for my benefit and I will correct myself.

I wasn't expecting an attack on Bezamir so soon. My guestimate was that of with in one month. The American strategy is quite clear after Negroponte took over the Pakistani affairs from Armitage. Negroponte has decades of experience of establishing death squads and creating civil wars around the globe specially in South America, Iraq, and Afhanistan. American strategy is to mobilize the civilians against civilians; in this case PPP militias will be established and pitted against the religious elements. A dejavu of Iraq where Shia militias and state apparatus was organized by Negroponte to crush sunni resistence, which they identified with AlQaida. Whether that policy worked or not does not concern Americans much because as long as someone else is getting massacred while keeping the American casualties low, "unna day lun tay thand eh" as the Punjabi proverb goes. It is anybody's guess that Bezamir has brought with her truck loads of dollars to establish PPP militias, which will be obviously trained by NaPak fouj. The civil war is written on the wall and so is the kidnappings, torture, and abu-ghraibs. NaPak fouj is already building 14 new jails (read torture and interrogation centers) for "extra-ordinary renditioned" citizens of Pakistan in Punjab alone at the cost of Rs. 3 Billion (with a "b"). The unholy alliance of NaPak fouj and liberal-fascists has turned into a hyperactive monkey that has a sharp open blade in his hand (as the urdu proverb goes).

I hope I am wrong but it does not seem likely. Regarding the attack on Bezamir I in fact had placed a bet with a friend of mine who proclaimed that minute the bezamir will step onto Pakistani soil, somehow Pakistani society will turn into paradise of democracy and tolerance. I told him what I've said above and told him that Bezamir and PPP will be attacked with in a month - and if it did not happen I will "mooter day naal apni muchchaN munn diyaN gaa", as punjabi proverb goes. I am not happy to see my moustaches saved today. My heart is sinking.

DM: Thanks for summarizing my views. I didnt realize they were so important.

On my challenging Indians coming to chowk painting all Pakistanis as criminals and terrorists and painting Islam as an evil religion - I am guilty as charged of showing them the mirror of the ugliness within India.

On your sayhing that I am an Uncritical Admirer of the West. Kindly provide me some evidence of what I have written to back your statement and I will be glad to consider that. Thanks in advance.

As for our applauding Masadi: he was claiming that I maintain certain views that he failed to back with anything I wrote. So, I assume you dont give any weight to truth vs lies as long as you like what is being said. Since masadi failed to back his claim, I suggest you being a more intelligent person, help substantiate Masadi's statement I referred to above.

btw, one of the few times we had "western" visitors, in the form of a couple of Israeli extremists who came to join the Indian posters in berating Pakistan - I was the only Pakistani poster as far as I recall to challenge them on what they wrote, and one of them (Goldsteen or something was his nick, and he had identified himself as a Tel Aviv lawyer) was mad enough to threaten me with the Tel Aviv underground!! So, how does this reconcile with your statement of my being an uncritical admirer of the west? And where were the echobooms of chowk when these israeli nuts were happily berating muslims and Pakistan?

Re: # 199

mohar,

... i should warn you .... zeemax also thinks the 9/11 attack on wtc was cia/jewish conspiracty

zee

who do you think did this blast on BB?

hamidm#161:

I think that there is more validity to masadi's accusation of our mutual friend tahmed as an uncritical admirer of the West than your putting him in the same category as the zees and urstrulys.

From the way I have understood tahmed during the last several years at chowk, he too hates the same things about Islam that you do. But unlike you, he loves his faith and is no less passionate about it than the likes of zee, urstruly or naqsh. So, he refuses to blame what you think is the root cause, the Book and the Prophet, and blames the Mullahs for everything that ails the islamic world as nothing ails Islam if I understand him correctly. I consider him to be truly eligible for the title of the Defender of the Faith and he will not tolerate any criticism of Muslims without at the same time mentioning that other religions, especially the pesky Hindus, are guilty of a lot worse.

Allah hu!!

Wow, these pure bloodied momeems are amazing !! They can blow themselves up and hundreds of other munafiqoons in order to ensure that purity of Islam is not diluted by a women aspiring to be the PM or that by that clean shaven man in army uniform.......

Allah hu!!!!

Actually these MMA mullahs are just a front for the Talibanis.

MMA actually is scared of women as Prime Minister of the pure Islami land of Pakistan. Imagine a woman leading all those pure bloodied momeens as Prime Minister when she should actually be at home working for her family in purdah.

Nawabzadaa Nabiullah Khanin Feb 1999 "Jamhooria Islamia" interview says it more explicitely-

EQUALITY OF MEN AND WOMEN IS STUPIDITY
Q: The women issue is very controversial nowadays. Taliban and some fundamentalist organizations restrict the freedom of women while some progressive Muslim intellectuals are insisting that the women are equal to men in all spheres. What are Qazi's views on women?
A: As I said earlier, the Prophet Mohammad's (PBUH) views on women are the exact views of Qazi Ahmed and the Jamat. Equality of men and women is stupidity. What men can do, women cannot do. Women are weak physically and mentally compared to men. Men have to take care of women all the time.
WOMEN MUST STAY HOME
Women should not have a life outside the family. Education can be provided to them, but not to compete with men in public.
NO VOTING RIGHTS FOR WOMEN UNDER SHARIA
Qazi had said once that when JI comes to power in Pakistan, he will abolish the voting rights of women and minorities. Only the Muslim men can participate in voting or standing for elections. When I asked the proof from Hadiths, he had quoted many Hadiths in support of that. I asked him why is it that it is never talked about openly in the public by the Jamaat? Qazi had said that the hints are all over the place. But JI did not make it a big issue since the women who currently have the voting rights may vote against JI in the elections if such a thing is said openly.
NON MUSLIMS IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES MUST PAY JIZYA
Q: That brings us to the question of minorities. Will they have to pay Jizya tax?
A: Yes. They have to pay the tax. As explained by Qazi Ahmed , the idea of Jizya is not protection money. But it is a monetary force on the non-Muslim to convert to Islam. Once the Jamaat comes to power, the minorities will be induced (forced) to become Muslims either by monetary or psychological factors."

That Mushy is not only strange, he appears to be totally retarded.

In the case of Lal Masjid, where there was no imminent threat to public security and citizens' lives, he moved in a deliberate, massive, costly, and murderous manner to kill hundreds.

In the case of Karachi, where there were open threats from Wanna Wanna about suicide bombing, this imbecile dictator provided no security for the unruly mob of welcoming paindoos.

...and this is the genius who was going to take Kargil away from the Injuns?

Baitullah Mehsud had already warned that suicide bombers would be waiting to "receive" her. And that was really another magnificient work of a "true muslim".

Re: # 191

zeemax,

..... your pir and murshid, liaqat baloch, has already been on tv, desperately trying to pin it mqm, but i think it is the jihadis because benazir is their biggest nightmare - a woman! .... why do you guys fear women so much? ... but that is another discussion altogether

.... anyway, i think this might be a good thing because now the line will be clearly drawn between the islamists and normal people ..... i hope ppp will be able to bury the hatchet and join hands with mqm, anp, america, the army, and the baluch nationalist parties to make sure al-lah doesn't take over the country with help from the mma, imran khan and the pml(q&n)....

#186 Posted by hamidm2

...... save your wrath for real jihadis like zeemax and urstruly ...

Why Thank You :)

But honestly, the Jihadis didn't do this one. They did the earlier one on the PPP reception counter in Islamabad, and all the others on army etc so far, but not this one. Look elsewhere as to who did it and you may be pleasantly surprised.

Shameless, wanton, and stupid loss of life in Karachi

I have been trying to write an article regarding violence, war, terrorism, suicide bombings, and other forms of humanity's attempt to prove Darwin right. Of course, my thoughts, like everyone else's, have been disrupted by this senseless and stupid slaughter in my beloved Karachi.

While it is easy to blame Bezamir Bhootni for her imbecile and slow procession from Quaid-e-Azam International to Quaid-e-Asam National, we need to step back, control our emotions, wipe off the tears, and make some objective observations.

Bezamir Bhootni
She should have selected prudence over pride. People in Wanna Wanna had threatened suicide attacks. Karachi is infested with adherents of all kinds of violent behavior. Instead of sneaking through the back door opened by Mushy, she should:

1. Show sincerity to her cause of democracy by challenging Mushy
2. Show some more sincerity by either wearing a hijab or going proudly with a naked head. This constant adjusting and readjusting of the dopatta is betraying her as a coward, an appeaser, and an opportunist - which she is.
3. Show some real courage in either accepting her family's role in corruption or come clean by refuting each and every charge of embezzlement against her and her husband.
4. Apologize for her violent suppression of Karachi's population and for using hurtful, racist, and bigoted terms for Urdu-speaking Mohajirs.

MQM
MQM cannot walk away from this one so easily. Helping Bezamir Bhootni sneak through the back door exposes MQM as Mushy's lackeys. MQM should have demanded that Bezamir renounce her racist, bigoted, and violent conduct while she was PM. Also, MQM leadership of Karachi displayed some sound logic by not allowing the corrupt CJ to make an ass out of himself on May 12. The same approach should have been taken in this case.

Mushy
The first job of any government, regardless of how legitimate or illegal, is to protect the lives, liberties, and properties of citizens. Mushy has failed miserably and needs to be removed - immediately. Also, lately he is coming across as a viceroy of Washington - not to mention being the lackey of a lame duck king.

Sindhis
Importing hundreds of thousands of illiterate and disorganized rural Sindhis and endangering their lives, along with the lives of police, common citizens, and spectators falls into the STUPID category. Mass hysteria of jubilation at the return of a corrupt landlord betrays these people as a backward, naive, and unsophisticated bunch.

Jihadists, Tally Ban, AlKaida, Wahaboobis
What can we say more about this plague? From Algeria to Kenya, from Tanzania to Turkey, from Bangladesh to Iraq, from Lebanon to Ajmer Sharif, and from Peshawar to Karachi to Lahore to Kashmir, to Mumbai to Delhi, these murderers are killing everyone - Muslims, Hindus, Christians, and others. For all their self-proclaimed love of Islam, these modern-day "Crusaders" are killing more Muslims than their 11th and 12th century predecessors. Someone needs to expose this vermin as a genuine threat to Islam and Muslims and wipe them out in one final act of righteous JIHAD.

Here is something to chew upon for all those who want to deny the Interview of Maulana Nabiullah Khan of Jamaat-e-Islamia.

He is really EXPLICIT in his statement that he wants Hindus as slaves of Pakistanis. Sure, after all that is what the Hadith-based-Sunnat requires with respect to the dhimmi hindus. That is what Moghuls did to hindu idolators and that is the most 'logical' thing for him to demand from a Pakistani muslim.

"AMAT WILL BRING SLAVERY BACK TO PAKISTAN Arabians own slaves. Though Allah says that the slaves should be treated in a nice manner, he did not advocate the abolition of slavery. If slavery is bad as considered in today's world, Allah certainly would have said that slavery is wrong. Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) also said that the slaves should be treated in a good manner and the slaves should be released often. But if there is no slavery, how can anyone release slaves? Hence the re-introduction of slavery in Pakistan is one of the future plans of the Jamaat.
ALL CAPTURED HINDUS WILL BE MADE SLAVES
All the captured Hindu Indians and Srilankans will be made slaves to work for Pakistani Muslims. Every God-abiding Pakistani Muslim will get slaves once we conquer India. All the slaves who embrace Islam will be set free. Slavery is Islamic. Jamaat is the only political party, which does not voice any opposition to the slavery in Pakistan. We went around all over Arabia. We were surprised to know that there are some Hindus in Yemen. These ancient Yemeni Hindus are not Indians. In my opinion, these Hindus are traders from India in the ancient times. I was also surprised to know that they have a Shiva temple in Yemen. Qazi was very unhappy over this. When he talked to the Yemen leaders, he broached this subject. But the Yemeni leaders refused Qazi's suggestion of forced conversion of these people to Islam. I don't know why they refused. I think it may be due to the large population of Hindus from India who work in Yemen and Arabia. He disliked the current leadership of Arabia for this reason.
In his opinion, Arabia should not allow any non-Muslim into the holy lands of Arabia. Arabia should be 100% pure. A large number of Hindus in Arabia is corrupting the Arabians. Though they live as contractors, they have the potential to corrupt the minds of the Arabians.
HINDU TEMPLES POLLUTE MUSLIM LANDS
One such thing is the presence of Arabians in the Qatar Hindu temple. First the king allowed the Hindus to build a temple and church in the holy lands, thereby polluting the Holy Land. Second is that even a member of the Royal family visited that temple to inaugurate that temple. To the horror of Qazi, he had learnt that one of the powerful members of the Qatar Royal family is a devotee of a god called Aayappan. This news resolved Qazi to fight the force of the devil thousand fold.
Q: Such things happen in Pakistan today. I mean a friend of mine goes to a Hindu temple. Another friend goes to church meetings.
A: Yes. One of Qazi's relatives wanted to become a Hindu. He did not have a child for many years and it seems he had prayed to a Hindu God and got the child. Hence he felt thankful to that god and wanted to become a Hindu. Qazi got to know of this and called him and threatened him with dire consequences. That relative did not become a Hindu. But that incident made Qazi read more about apostasy.
PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTASY IS DEATH
Quran and Hadith clearly say the punishment for abandonment of Islam is death. Since Sharia is not the law in Pakistan, and the current Pakistani Constitution grants the right to change religion, it is legally correct to declare oneself as Hindu or Christian. But once the JI takes over the government, it will make Sharia as the Constitution. Then Pakistan will also legally execute any person who leaves Islam and joins Ahmaddiah, Christianity or Hinduism the same way Iran and Taliban treats its apostates. He also opined that the presence of the Hindu temples in Pakistan is the root cause of the problem and hence we want to destroy all the Hindu temples and Churches in Pakistan.
Q: This brings us into another area. Right now the Internet is becoming widespread. Even Saudi Arabia is connected with the outside world. Destroying the temples may be good, but how can we insulate the Pakistani and Muslim people against the corrupting knowledge totally?
A: JI had taken a principled stand on the matter of science and religion. Religion is far superior to science.
ALL THE WORLD�S KNOWLEDGE IS IN QURAN AND HADITHS
Whatever man needs to know is in the Quran and Hadiths. Knowing more will create problems like the Atom bomb and Television. "

Re: # 185

Hmmm, I thought someone said that only when the remaining
hinjew influence in Pakistan is removed, Pakistan will
be peaceful and prosperous...