Can Religious Leaders Redeem the Future of the World?

Re: # 154

and i dont believe in reincarnation to make some one DESERVE there servitude .

tolkinin #151 a hindu who believes in the caste system is the worst kind of racist - because he adds insult to injury by claiming that brahmins are superior because of their moral greatness in their previous incarnation.

masadi #149 You are lying when you write that People like tahmed support the colonization of our people by those he considers "superior"

You can refute my above charge by cutting and pasting anything I have ever written in the past 7 years on chowk to support your claim.

Re: # 151

Good points. And also undeniable. Now we have to ask us the question, whether this racism and bigotry is benefiting us or is it hurting us. Is the reason for the misery and indignity that we suffer everyday is that that we have forgotten what our Emancipator (pbuh) taught us. Mark these immortal words that constitute the manifest destiny for humanity:

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves."

........Last Sermon of Holy Prophet (pbuh)

Masadi, Ahmedmadani, Aslam, UrsTruly ..Dont say there is no rAscism among Pakistanis or Arab countries .
You are all staunch muslims & muslims are the worst rascist.Pathans vs Punjabis Mohajirs Vs Sindhi West Pakistani Vs east Pakistani (now BDEsh)
practice what you preach .The glamorous world of Pak T.V & movie Personalities despite making living of Pakistani ,and just like WASP or Brahmins consider you all inferior just ask Meera & Veenezas of Pakistan

Speaking of impotent rage, I would suggest that you pick up any book on civil rights movement by any white author and it will tell you the infiltration of communists into the ranks of both Dr. king and Malik Shahbaz. See how they interpret the consequences of bus boycott.

tahmed writes "After 1964, it has taken just one generation for blacks to become part of the mainstream (perhaps even less time than the italians etc. of the 19th century) "

Blacks have not become part of the mainstream. When you have a group that has double the poverty level, unemployment level, and still shows very high level of segregation indices with most so called "middle class" blacks living on the periphery of the ghetto with equal access still not allowed to them even in housing let alone managerial or high level jobs (one name here or there wont do, just like Obama and Colin Powell the most "white" among the "blacks" in places of power wont do). These numbers are those that are given by the US government itself and except for some peons of the West from Pakistan nobody not even the establishment denies that racism exists in the US. Regarding group and institutional racism, that does not exist in a vaccum, it is processed and gets translated into personal racism and just because those at the top do not explicity show it does not mean they do not espouse it, those destroying countries are those at the top not the trailer trash who shows Arjun like hate which harms very few even though it is distasteful. Why tahmed would like to mask it by throwing out the Irish who were assimilated into mainstream US society because of skin color and not any "history" as he would like you to believe (that is the difference between the petty jealousies of asian the "imitation racism" that these fools refer to and the real racism of the West, based on skin color unforseen in evil consequence in the history of the world, need I remind you of the Atlantic Slave Trade and the genocide of the native Americans?).

People like tahmed support the colonization of our people by those he considers "superior", being a rank racist- he thinks they civilized us, and he supported the Iraq war and will now most probably cheerlead for the Iran war once it starts, is it any wonder that he is denying racism existing in the US when there is unanimous agreement among social scientists (except ass wipes like Danish Desouza- who explains away race based on class when CLASS is caused by race and not vice versa), as well as establishment experts except for the O'reilly and Fox News types...

And by the way when Hamid says "if you want to be treated like a white man start acting like one", is true in the US and this by itself proves the existance of racism and racial exclusivity. If you want to be treated with human dignity try imitating the only race considered "human" in the US so you might brush off some of their humanity, otherwise the Pigs (police) will butcher you like dogs and they do on a daily basis...

Re: # 147

urstruly,

....like a true muslim you are so full of impotent rage at being left behind in every field of human endevour, that you choose to blame the west for your miseries ...... this is the type of thinking that makes you the 'nigger' ...... if you want to be treated like a 'white' man, start acting like one .... stop sulking and take responsibility for your failures ...... and stop accepting government cheese - it will help your self esteem ...

The acceptance of blacks as "equal humans" at least at its face value is a blessing of Proletariat movements of last century that originated in Russia and spread across the world like wildfire. The by product or unintended consequences of those movements, which had great appeal among the oppressed around the globe, was the inevitable abolition of aparthied across the western world. The "preservation of market economy" argument to support the equal rights is vehemently put forward to this day. Like I said before, atheists and a system based on atheism i.e. Secularism cannot have moral values. Making "economic sense" and hence 'self preservation" are the only reason that something is done. The Western Capitalist world is working over time now to convert Muslims into the new niggers because now that is what making more "economic sense".

aslam: granted that the blacks were segregated long after the irish, italians, poles, germans etc. were accepted as full human beings. this was the result of historical circumstances (slavery, followed by segregationist "jim crow" state and local laws - and then chipped away with federal action starting with the emancipation proclamation, continuing with desegregation in the military followed by the 1964 civil rights act). After 1964, it has taken just one generation for blacks to become part of the mainstream (perhaps even less time than the italians etc. of the 19th century) - from "black power" of the 1960's to blacks as mainstream: Black politicians seeking to gain office by playing the "black card" of victimization are history, and mainstream politicians who happen to be black (e.g. Obama, Fenty) now play the same field (i.e. international issues, personal charisma) as white politicians.

Similarly, black voters in the US have moved away from voting on the basis of ethnicity - more black voters support Hillary Clinton than anyone else.

So - while many Pakistanis think that the US is still in the 1950's in terms of the status of blacks, in fact the picture has vastly changed and keeps changing rapidly.

Re: # 144
#144 Posted by ferozk

I am afraid don’t remember that dialogue but on the whole I liked the movie.

regards

re: aslam644 # 142

Do you remember the dialogue between Matt Damon's character and the Russian in a Berlin church in post-war Germany?

Ciao

Re: # 127

Aslam you are quoting AFRICAN as being same as Black Americans.Black American or African American has been here for hundreds of years but only in the last century as late as 60s never had ENVIROMENTAL change to compete as by affirmative Action.
Since then genetic diffeences both good and bad have been diluted or neutralised .Look at the land mark achievement in education of Black american that
even the descendent of White Moghuls rulers of Pakistan stand up like sheep when Condi Rice shows up as Head Mistress.Not to speak of All white Arabs




Land marks of Black Americans Educational Achievements




1837
Institute for Colored Youth founded by Richard Humphreys; later became Cheyney University.
1854
Ashmun Institute, the first school of higher learning for young black men, founded by John Miller Dickey and his wife, Sarah Emlen Cresson; later (1866) renamed Lincoln University (Pa.) after President Abraham Lincoln.
1856
Wilberforce University, the first black school of higher learning owned and operated by African Americans, founded by the African Methodist Episcopal Church. Its president, Daniel A. Payne, became the first African American Uniiversity president in the country.
1869
Howard University's law school becomes the country's first black law school.
1876
Meharry Medical College, the first black medical school in the U.S., founded by the Freedman's Aid Society of the Methodist Episcopal Church.
1881
Spelman College, the first college for black women in the U.S., founded by Sophia B. Packard and Harriet E. Giles.
1881
Booker T. Washington founds the Tuskegee Normal and Industrial Institute in Alabama. The school became one of the leading schools of higher learning for African Americans, and stressed the practical application of knowledge. In 1896, George Washington Carver began teaching there as director of the department of agricultural research, gaining an international reputation for his agricultural advances.
1922
William Leo Hansberry teaches the first course in African civilization at an American university, at Howard University.
1944
Frederick Douglass Patterson establishes the United Negro College Fund to help support black colleges and black students.
1954
In the landmark case Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, Kans., the Supreme Court rules unanimously that segregation in public schools in unconstitutional.
1957
President Dwight D. Eisenhower sends federal troops to ensure integration of the all-white Central High School in Little Rock, Ark. The Little Rock Nine were the first black students to attend the school.
1960
Black and white students form the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC), dedicated to working against segregation and discrimination.
1962
James Meredith is the first black student to enroll at the University of Mississippi; on the day he enters the university, he is escorted by U.S. marshals.
1963
Despite Governor George Wallace physically blocking their way, Vivian Malone and James Hood register for classes at the University of Alabama.
1968
San Francisco State University becomes the first four-year college to establish a black studies department.
1969
The Ford Foundation gives $1 million to Morgan State University, Howard University, and Yale University to help prepare faculty members to teach courses in African American studies.
2003
In Grutter v. Bollinger, the Supreme Court (5-4) upholds the University of Michigan Law School's affirmative action policy, ruling that race can be one of many factors considered by colleges when selecting their students because it furthers “a compelling interest in obtaining the educational benefits that flow from a diverse student body.�

Re: # 136
tahmed
Prejudice between different groups of same race is of a totally different nature, than prejudice against people of colour.

As we have seen in the USA within couple of generations Italians, jews, irish etc have assimilated into the WASP mainstream, the blacks haven’t even though they have been there for generations.

Recently I watched a movie “ THE GOOD SHEPHERD “

Here is a dialogue from it at one time the WASPS thought they owned the USA.

between a Mafia don and an impeccably WASPish CIA operative. “We Italians, we have the church and our family. The Irish have their homeland. The Jews have their traditions. Even the niggers, they've got their music. What do you people have?�
The CIA man replies, with all of the force of Yale and its most revered secret society, Skull and Bones. “The United States of America. The rest of you are just visiting.�

#138 Posted by hamidm2 on October 18, 2007 7:31:39 am

..racism is driven by exactly the same instinct as nationalism - a desire by people with small penises to feel big...

Hamid,

The length of penis is not an indicator of superiority. If that were the case then donkeys had bigger willies. That doesnt make donkies superior to Pakistanis.

As per God's assessment, the length complements the depth of the conjugal partner(s).

Re: # 137
For what ever reason nationalism is come to be accepted as term ...National (BNP)party .When nationalism interacts with another and HURTS it. it is rascism.Thats why rascism is Bad nationalism is o.k.