Can Religious Leaders Redeem the Future of the World?

Urstruly: No one is arguing below against your right to speak your mind. All I am saying for example is that your actions contradict what you say. I have been pointing this out to you for years, and you have been simply ignoring this question.

If your actions were to match your words, you would have moved to neighboring Afghanistan when it was under the Taliban (whose de facto policies matched quite well what you keep favoring on chowk) to raise your family - and not come thousands of miles to the US instead. So, the only logical conclusion is that you want to have the luxury of following the mullah fashion of berating the US and western civilization generally, while at the same time enjoying the fruits of western civilization.

Only muslim-haters (read arjuns posts gloating about the low popularity of the US in Pakistan) and only the ignorant fools among muslims applaud this ego-satisfying "confrontation" with the west the maulvis engage in - since (as I pointed out to GT below), it is the millions of muslims not as fortunate as you in getting a visa to the west who are paying the cost of your above-mentioned luxury.

The truth is that mullah fazloo - who was at the forefront of US flag burning in Pakistan after the US invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11, which was prominently shown on US TVs - has made clear he is fighting for no principal higher than that of furthering is personal political ambitions like any other two-taka politician. And the truth is that it is because of such actions that Pakistanis find it much harder to get jobs and visas to the west today than Indians e.g. I hope someday, for the sake of the millions of muslims who suffer the consequences of this bogus "confrontation" with the west, if not "merely" for the sake of being fair and honest, you will give this matter some thought.

Tahmed sahib,

(So, the only logical conclusion is that you want to have the luxury of following the mullah fashion of berating the US and western civilization generally, while at the same time enjoying the fruits of western civilization.)

If Maulana Urstruly (pbuh) and his likes want to enjoy the fruits of paradise both in this world and hereafter why should we act spoilsports?

Regards

#98 majumdar: "why should we act spoilsports?"

because this luxury is cost-free only to urstruly (as explained in my post).

The muslim scholars instead of writing to the pope should have written to teh fellow muslims of pakistan that blowing up barber shops are un-islamic. No ...no...they could not have done that, there is a specific verse in the book that says that all muslims should grow beard and as such blowing up barber shops is a jihadic act.

Tailoring shops, music centres blown up



Dawn Report


GHALANAI, Oct 16: At least five shops — two videos and CDs centres, two tailoring shops and one hair cutting salon — were destroyed and about a dozen others damaged in an explosion that occurred in the wee hours of Monday in the Mian Mandi Bazaar.

Local people said the bomb explosion in Khwajawas Market spread panic in the area.

On Tuesday, hairdressers displayed large banners outside their shops in the area stating that they had stopped shaving beards. The banners stated that the hairdressers would only cut hair in accordance with the religious code.

The local militants have been patrolling different areas.

A group of militants also patrolled some roads in the settled areas adjacent to the Mohmand Agency, including Pir Qala.

Re: # 97
I agree with you that Pakistani immigrants in Europe are viewed with suspicion because of the actions of few muslims, before 9/11 pakistani-panjabis were flooding into Europe both legally and illegally in spain and italy mini Pakistans were being created quite a few have established thriving businesses. Compared to northern Europe southern Europe is paradise in terms of weather. Let us hope this is only a temporary problem and immigration proceeds as before because this has the potential to transform Punjab. I have witnessed with my own eyes some villages in jhelum where quite a few young men have gone to Europe for work, there is construction boom in these villages with new houses and small businesses being built.

Aslam,

Re: 101

The Western world does need the labour and talent of third world countries desperately. But as Tahmed sahib rightly points out the attitude of some Muslim immigrants means that these countries would tend to favour import of surplus labour from non-Muslim countries like India and China than from Muslims countries like Pakistan.

Regards

Re: # 102
as far as i am aware there are no laws in europe which discriminate in favour of non-muslim countries, thousands of iraqis are getting asylum, 80,000 in sweden alone.

#103 by aslam644

as far as i am aware there are no laws in europe which discriminate in favour of non-muslim countries, thousands of iraqis are getting asylum, 80,000 in sweden alone.

If push comes to shove, countries will set aside such niceties as laws and do what they want to.

Aslam,

Re: #103

As of now, maybe not. But in future???

Regards

tahmed writes "it is the millions of muslims not as fortunate as you in getting a visa to the west who are paying the cost of your above-mentioned luxury. "

For this peon of the West a quick ticket to his "heaven" is all what the Muslims should seek. The "cost" to us of this "heaven" is the state of our countries, for the ghetto as well as the underdeveloped countries where people live in misery and where they are trapped due to all kinds of bureaucratic restrictions from travelling God's earth is the gift of Western Civilization to the rest of the World. They are the authors of the conditions that we face by their policies today and their (colonization) policies of the past.

Do not think that if you're living in Pakistan, you are not living in the USA. You are very much living in the USA when you live in Lahore or Karachi or Islamabad, just not in the backwater ghetto areas that are reserved by them for your kind i.e. people of color. The visa wont save you either, look at the condition of the internally colonized and the neighbourhoods they live in, smell the smell of the ghetto and it will be like sweet home Pakistan...The whole world is the playing field of the US elite, racially segregated with continent wide prisons, and Pakistan is part of it...

in #106 read "You are very much living in the USA when you live in Lahore or Karachi or Islamabad, just not in the backwater ghetto areas that are reserved by them for your kind i.e. people of color. "

as
You are very much living in the USA when you live in Lahore or Karachi or Islamabad, just that you are in the backwater ghetto areas that are reserved by them for your kind i.e. people of color.

#97 Posted by tahmed32 on October 17, 2007 1:50:38 am


Only muslim-haters (read arjuns posts gloating about the low popularity of the US in Pakistan)


yes prophetboy...pointing out that osama is popular in pureland makes me hateful...the 40%+ pakis who have a favorable opinion of osama? they're just victims of my postings on chowk.com.

masadi: i am not insulted by your calling me "people of color". I am in fact very pleased with the color of my skin. White guys try desperately to match this color, spending long hours under the sun, risking their lives with skin cancer, paying exorbitant sums for tanning salons. All for a few short days of the privilege to match my skin color.

Only a total duffer like you would think that I have a problem with the color of my skin.

As for Pindi, Islamabad being just like the US...this is only part in your post where you have tried to argue the substance of what I wrote in #106. And your trademark personal insults cannot hide the weakness of your argument. )nly a rare dud like you would put forward the n argument that immigration restrictions are not a problem for millions of youth in Pakistan because life in Pindi, Islamabad are just like the US!!

Re: # 108

arjun,

.... if it is any consolation, i will trade romair for you any day ....... what the heck, we will even throw in masadi .... it will be a net gain for pakistan

arjun: You seem to have trouble understanding plain english - I referred to you as a "muslim hater", which is based on your years of service on chowk, and you understand that to mean that you are a "hateful" person.

hamidm is willing to trade masadi and romair for you, and thus is obviously a lousy dealer. I wouldnt offer one wild monkey hopping on trees in Margalla Hills in exchange for a specimen like you.

Gill Sahib,

In answer to your question, an observation from several

years ago still remains valid:

"What is the alternative?"

Ras