Where's the news?

vrv: you ignored the point i made about consistency between words and actions. you also refused to answer a simple question by giving an irrelevant analogy of "since when u stopped beating ur wife". If you had asked me the same question on India, I would have given you an answer.
contrary to what you say, hamidm is also quite consistent in what he says - he appreciates the country he has chosen to live in (i.e. the US), is for the market system, he does not think highly of either islam or hinduism, is cynical of both Pakistanis and Indians. I dont agree with some of what he says, but he is as consistent in his views as anyone. which, like i said, is more than can be said for those who claim to have all sorts of grievances with the west and yet have chosen to raise their families in the west rather than in taliban afghanistan (which provided the "islamic society" they claim to stand for).

Dont worry about mollifying me, since questioning what I consider to be an incorrect assertion does not mean that I am being merely upset. So instead of mollifying me, you should consider what I am saying and address that rather than merely ignore the points I made.

TA,

That's a well craftd defence.

Defending the consistency of Urstruly makes me anti-Pakistani?

vrv #50 please dont keep answering my simple question with some other question. but it is obvious that you find it hard to say a simple yes or no, and that is your choice. bye.

Nadeem,

sorry to borrow your board but out of the sadness
and from the CHOWK archives (1998)...


A BEGGAR FROM KARACHI

Once like the current multitudes in Chappals

These legs also walked your dusty streets

As this was home, but now all but lost in memory

Clifton Beach, Saddar and the market no

Empress would much care to bless.



Paan stains or is it the crimson of blood?

Of the many young and now old, pierced hate

The metal of unholy bullets in still bodies

Widows, orphans and the ravages of

Jinns let loose in the bazaars of fearful lives.



Peace once walked through this city but

Like Mir, sons died here for many perceived sins

And the loss has now reached the healer Hakim who

By educating children was pronounced guilty of doing good

Sentenced to death at age 78 to leave us horrified.



Many names not as famous come to mind too but

Space limits and the pain of this madness erases

Man dreams burnt in the hot Tandoors of hate

Bigotry, selfishness and the smoke of street heroin

All are now experiencing the futility of addiction.



Very easy it is to blame the outsiders for oppression

But amongst ourselves oozes a little truth

The City of Lights calls for an era that once was

When the people of Karachi lived around the clock

And were not forced to plead for peace

Like this beggar from the past.


Ras H. Siddiqui

News from karachi

Zeemax, the new nostradamus

You were correct when you said that Pakistan will become Iraq, and in fact pakistan has dome one better than iraq in the statistics.

In this jihadi made tragedy, if the educated pakistanis can take a few seconds and reflect on the following, the death of so many would not be in vain.

1. Even now ISI is pushing the jihadis to kashmir, on the notion that kashmir jihad is different from afghan jihad. Is it not true that jihadis are general purpose killers, they seek death and they will do it if the mullah directs them. Stop all jihad, even the kashmir jihad.

2. You all maintain that jihadism is due to poverty. Then you say that India is a poor country when compared to pakistan. Then why are so many jihadis in pakistan. There are so many countries poorer than pakistan why no jihadis. There is something in the religion that makes the muslims of pakistan jihadic killers, in pakistan as well as in london. Thnk of what is that factor unique about pakistan. Why is the paki strain of islam teh most virulent so far identified.

Re: # 53

jayp,

Nostradamus or blackmailer? Such predictions are threats of violence targeting those who oppose their viewpoints. And yes, Pakistan is paying for its misdeeds in Afghanistan and Kashmir, but that is not the complete picture. Pakistan has undergone through a ideological shift in the last thirty years as rightwing idealogues have imposed their vision at the expense of moderation and democracy. Pakistan needs to restore some sense of stability quickly and eliminate this scourge of extremism. Failure is not an option for Pakistanis or Indians as a failed state with 160million souls will spell diseaster for this entire region.

I agree to this title of failed state and also the risk poised by rising right wing militancy. However our deeds have a lot to do with Pakistan army as well as USA who was desperate in 1980s to defeat communism. All that religous jihadi culture was deliberately cultivated under Zia regime using US fundings.
The Russians left but the apparatus which was in line with the already prevalent conservative atmosphere became active in generating religous militancy. Its appeal was enhanced a lot by international developments and US misdeeds.

Today the same US is trying to uproot this apparatus. It was realtively easy to set as it was in line with the prevalent moods of that time. However it is difficult to simply uproot it as it has strenghtened and forceful dismantling is not going to be effective and in fact counterproductive.

I agree moderate forces need to come up. However i disagree with bringing BB as an acceptable moderate force. She is a sold out phony woman who is merely heading a feudal infested party built upon Bhutto cult. Moreover there is a strong perception that she is being brought to serve largely right wing US interests and ambitions. This alone will add fuel to the fire.

What is needed in pakistan is a genuine moderate force with centre to left political ideology. May be PPP with out BB. I wish it was possible!! Unfortunately and really it is extreme ill luck that PPP is built upon Bhutto cult.

...it seems like the way to get to power in pakistan is to declare full support for the war on extremism........even if involves death and destruction in pakistan.........

.........pakistani leaders need to start listening to their own populations and not to the interests of the usa.......

.....as long as pakistan continues to participate actively in this war between the usa and taliban, i can only see destruction and blasts in pakistan....the moment pakistan carries out any action in waziristan, a few days later a counter-action is taken out in some pakistani city........

........this is not pakistan's war......pakistan needs to stay out of it......let the usa and taliban fight it out......and pakistan leaders need to stop trying to get brownie points, by announcing their suppport for one side or the other.......there was obviously no need for the extremists to carry out such an explosion.....at the same time, there was no need to benazir to gain brownie points with the usa, by publicly announcing that she would allow usa to operate inside pakistan militarily.......

she has gained a stronger political presence due to such an announcement, but it has polarized the society even more......a better response would have been that she is against extremism, and also against the usa's efforts to militarize the issue........a political solution is the best solution..........

Re: # 56
I wish that sold out phony BB cared that much for us to take that middling and politically apt stance. She is desperate to come to power and sees that pleasing US is the only way out.

#56 by bulleya

........this is not pakistan's war......pakistan needs to stay out of it......let the usa and taliban fight it out......and pakistan leaders need to stop trying to get brownie points, by announcing their suppport for one side or the other.......

Weren't you the one who boasted that IT sucked as a career and you would love to don the military gear again and lead US troops into Afghanistan? What brownie points were you looking for then?

#56 Posted by bulleya on October 19, 2007 4:27:40 am


........this is not pakistan's war..



you created the jihadis...this is absolutely your fight. the people who died yesterday died because your government follows the policy of supporting islamic terrorism for it's strategic goals, be it strategic depth in afghanistan or core issue in kashmir...

just last week I pointed out a post of yours where you were telling us India should hand over kashmir or pakiland would sic the jihadis on india and keel bleeding it.

#54 Posted by rf786 on October 19, 2007 3:12:39 am


Pakistan has undergone through a ideological shift in the last thirty years as rightwing idealogues have imposed their vision at the expense of moderation and democracy.


imposed-schimposed..the paki junta was fine with the jihadis when pakis thought the jihadis were winning afghanistan for pureland and "bleeding" india in kashmir. pre 9/11, you could hardly see a voice in pureland going against the taliban. indeed, the majority of pakis wrote letters to the west asking the west to recognize the taliban's control over afghanistan as a fait accompli.


Failure is not an option for Pakistanis or Indians as a failed state with 160million souls will spell diseaster for this entire region.


why exactly is it a problem for india? india's been doing fine for the past 6 years while pureland has been circling down the jihadi toilet.

Re: # 60

Arjun4

There is no lack of jaundiced views, your comments are a good example of fixed, narrow minded prejuidices.

Failed states have their own dynamics that have no direction but severe repercussions which can ripple throughout the region. India is enjoying rapid economic growth which requires political stability and that can be compromised when a neighboring country such as Pakistan breakdowns.

rf786

Just look history of last 60 years - a "strong" pakistan has always sought to be severely antagonistic to india and it's interests... in contrast - now that pakiland is weakened in last few years - things have worked pretty well from india's perspective...

So a failed pakiland is not a problem for us... in fact - it may provide a good opportunity to eliminate a pesky problem once and for all... it would bring entire world into focus on this - this islamic problem that we have been warning everybody for decades now... There may finally be a concentrated international effort to fix this once and for all...

Strong muslim states in the periphery are never in india's interest... inevitably - they would turn into islamic fundamentalism and seek to harm us just because we are kafirs... Look at Bdesh...

#61 Posted by rf786 on October 19, 2007 6:19:20 am

you pakis keep saying a stable pakiland is in india's interest but you never back it up. why is a stable pureland necessary to india's progress anymore than a stable nepal or bangladesh is?

Re: # 62

I think another advantage of failing/struggling Pakistan
and Bangladesh is, it gives less incentives for future
Muslims separatists within India to separate.
If Pakistan and Bangladesh are not failing and struggling,
it will increase the apetite of prospective Muslims
separatists to demand separation in future.
Kashmiris muslims will have less enthusiasm and incentives
to separate and go on their own.
Not that India should do anything to aggrevate the failure
and struggle, both the states are doing fine job on
their own.