V S Gopalakrishnan October 15, 2007
#10 Posted by guarana on October 26, 2007 7:14:46 am
when I was very young, I remember my parents complaining that we kids were listening to "cheap" film music too often. The "Jeyrad" radio with brocade fabric covering the speaker would be glared at because Rafi's, Asha's or Mukesh's latest would be belting out of it. Heads would be shaken and it was regreted that we did not listen with the same fervor to classical music. But we made our choice and listened to each kind of music whenever the mood took us, without discarding the one for the other.
I think today's Himesh craze has struck a cord somewhere in the autorickshawallas or younger crowd or where ever. Some people laugh at him and his nasal voice and it reminds me of the sage remarks in old days about Rafi not being able to carry off classical as well as Manna Dey or Mukesh having a rigid voice with not much versatility.
But each of these popular singers, like today's Himesh, hit the right notes for somebody somewhere and quite a great number of somebodies at that, judging by their popularity. Tastes differ in music because music is so individual in appeal though it is also such a universal language in itself. I say, Viva variety!! Choose what ever you feel like hearing and thank God for the umpteen choices that exist and appear anew each day.
I think today's Himesh craze has struck a cord somewhere in the autorickshawallas or younger crowd or where ever. Some people laugh at him and his nasal voice and it reminds me of the sage remarks in old days about Rafi not being able to carry off classical as well as Manna Dey or Mukesh having a rigid voice with not much versatility.
But each of these popular singers, like today's Himesh, hit the right notes for somebody somewhere and quite a great number of somebodies at that, judging by their popularity. Tastes differ in music because music is so individual in appeal though it is also such a universal language in itself. I say, Viva variety!! Choose what ever you feel like hearing and thank God for the umpteen choices that exist and appear anew each day.
#9 Posted by vsgopal2000 on October 24, 2007 11:00:52 pm
Dear Ranjit,
Guru-shishya parampara is almost gone.Gandharva Mahavidyalaya classes (Akhil Bharatiya Gandharva Mahavidyalaya system) for youngsters is really good enough.I have finished madhyama exam in vocal through ABGMB only.
Yes,boring artists of classical music,is a calamity.There are some so-called stalwarts whom I do not wish to listen to.I will not name them here.Those whom I like are Jasraj,Veena Sahasraduddhe,Kishori Amonkar and many others. If you find someone boring through experience, simply do not buy his CDs ! You can always keep buying CDs of those artistes who please you.There is individual subjectivity coming into play here.
I have nothing against people listening to Himesh.He is the modern Mukesh.( I had referred to a "Ganja" and I find it is Ganjawala, not Ganjapure ; no disrespect meant anyway!).In fact,I have grown with Hindi film songs.I now have this "magic-sing" brand karaoke with an in-built chip containing about 600 Hindi film songs, that I quickly plug on to a TV and start singing a Rafi or Kishore or Mukesh ! It costs only Rs.9000 in Mumbai (it is made in S.Korea) and is very reasonably priced considering its technology since you do not have to handle cumbersome CDs or cassettes.Anyone can email me ()and I can tell/him the name and address of the distributor. See, I am NOT against film music at all!
V.S.Gopalakrishnan
Guru-shishya parampara is almost gone.Gandharva Mahavidyalaya classes (Akhil Bharatiya Gandharva Mahavidyalaya system) for youngsters is really good enough.I have finished madhyama exam in vocal through ABGMB only.
Yes,boring artists of classical music,is a calamity.There are some so-called stalwarts whom I do not wish to listen to.I will not name them here.Those whom I like are Jasraj,Veena Sahasraduddhe,Kishori Amonkar and many others. If you find someone boring through experience, simply do not buy his CDs ! You can always keep buying CDs of those artistes who please you.There is individual subjectivity coming into play here.
I have nothing against people listening to Himesh.He is the modern Mukesh.( I had referred to a "Ganja" and I find it is Ganjawala, not Ganjapure ; no disrespect meant anyway!).In fact,I have grown with Hindi film songs.I now have this "magic-sing" brand karaoke with an in-built chip containing about 600 Hindi film songs, that I quickly plug on to a TV and start singing a Rafi or Kishore or Mukesh ! It costs only Rs.9000 in Mumbai (it is made in S.Korea) and is very reasonably priced considering its technology since you do not have to handle cumbersome CDs or cassettes.Anyone can email me ()and I can tell/him the name and address of the distributor. See, I am NOT against film music at all!
V.S.Gopalakrishnan
#8 Posted by Ranjit on October 24, 2007 9:09:42 pm
VS,
The problem is with the practitioners of classical music and not the masses. Firstly it is not easy to learn or appreciate classical music even if one has interest. It takes a long time to build up the knowledge or expertise to appreciate it. Secondly the ustads/pandits do not want to take on students and share their knowledge, unless the students act as their servants for years. It is very hard to find a good guru. Thirdly there are few practitioners of classical music who are really melodious like DV Paluskar or Bhimsen Joshi or Abdul Karim Khan. There is nothing worse sounding or more boring than mediocre artists of classical music.
Gandharva Mahavidyalaya started by Vishnu Digambar Paluskar, was a right step in this direction. You should see their center in Delhi. Ordinary people from all walks of life eagerly sign up to learn classical vocal, tabla, sitar etc. It is full of eager parents bringing in their kids to expose them to classical music. So the concept works fine if done properly. There is a strong demand for it. But if no one provides this service, can we blame the masses if they listen to Himesh? After all that is easy to pick up and is available all the time.
The problem is with the practitioners of classical music and not the masses. Firstly it is not easy to learn or appreciate classical music even if one has interest. It takes a long time to build up the knowledge or expertise to appreciate it. Secondly the ustads/pandits do not want to take on students and share their knowledge, unless the students act as their servants for years. It is very hard to find a good guru. Thirdly there are few practitioners of classical music who are really melodious like DV Paluskar or Bhimsen Joshi or Abdul Karim Khan. There is nothing worse sounding or more boring than mediocre artists of classical music.
Gandharva Mahavidyalaya started by Vishnu Digambar Paluskar, was a right step in this direction. You should see their center in Delhi. Ordinary people from all walks of life eagerly sign up to learn classical vocal, tabla, sitar etc. It is full of eager parents bringing in their kids to expose them to classical music. So the concept works fine if done properly. There is a strong demand for it. But if no one provides this service, can we blame the masses if they listen to Himesh? After all that is easy to pick up and is available all the time.
#7 Posted by vsgopal2000 on October 24, 2007 7:10:15 am
Hi everybody,
Now,Kulharee's first comment has been commendably cleared! I appreciate what he said.
I agree,"classical" will be special;it is age-old and it tends to stay permanent with some changes over time, WHEREAS
Film music is for the MASSES. So, naturally,film songs would be much more popular than classical music.What I am trying to say is that if something is possible to influence and educate the mind of the youth, let us do it so that when they grow up,they don't find classical music forbidding or alien or orthodox or unattractive but are in a position to straightaway appreciate it and enjoy it.
Now,I am changing my mind about "compulsion" to learn music in schools.Yes,there is no point in thrusting music -learning down the throats of the uninterested.However, every school should have a variety of musical instruments and also proper teachers so that youngsters have full opportunity to indulge in music,quite optionally.
V.S.Gopalakrishnan
Now,Kulharee's first comment has been commendably cleared! I appreciate what he said.
I agree,"classical" will be special;it is age-old and it tends to stay permanent with some changes over time, WHEREAS
Film music is for the MASSES. So, naturally,film songs would be much more popular than classical music.What I am trying to say is that if something is possible to influence and educate the mind of the youth, let us do it so that when they grow up,they don't find classical music forbidding or alien or orthodox or unattractive but are in a position to straightaway appreciate it and enjoy it.
Now,I am changing my mind about "compulsion" to learn music in schools.Yes,there is no point in thrusting music -learning down the throats of the uninterested.However, every school should have a variety of musical instruments and also proper teachers so that youngsters have full opportunity to indulge in music,quite optionally.
V.S.Gopalakrishnan
#6 Posted by Kulharee on October 24, 2007 6:07:36 am
Firstly, re#5 – (Thank you Guarana) that’s precisely what I meant by that comment. Now this article will reach a huge audience thank to Mr. Al Gore peace and blessings of Allah be upon him for inventing the internet.
Dear VS,
I agree with you that a lot more needs to be done to preserve and promote Hindustani (as well as Carnatic). Having said that, I believe that the classical tradition will always appeal only to a few, and by design, it is not meant to be an indulgence for the masses. But yes, it needs to be appreciated by all.
I am a sucker for both Hindustani and Carnatic, and am going to attend the following at the Asia Society in two weeks:
Following is from the Asia Society Website-
Two masters of the alto saxophone return for a much-anticipated U.S. tour. Kadri Gopalnath, a living legend of South Indian Carnatic music, and Rudresh Mahanthappa, a fiercely innovative Indian American jazz musician, present a cross-cultural, intergenerational collaborative suite that fuses a myriad of traditional and contemporary influences. The two are joined by their co-led Dakshina Ensemble with A. Kanyakumari (violin), Rez Abbasi (guitar/sitar-guitar), Carlo De Rosa (bass), Poovalur Sriji (mridangam-barrel drum), and royal hartigan (drum set).
Dear VS,
I agree with you that a lot more needs to be done to preserve and promote Hindustani (as well as Carnatic). Having said that, I believe that the classical tradition will always appeal only to a few, and by design, it is not meant to be an indulgence for the masses. But yes, it needs to be appreciated by all.
I am a sucker for both Hindustani and Carnatic, and am going to attend the following at the Asia Society in two weeks:
Following is from the Asia Society Website-
Two masters of the alto saxophone return for a much-anticipated U.S. tour. Kadri Gopalnath, a living legend of South Indian Carnatic music, and Rudresh Mahanthappa, a fiercely innovative Indian American jazz musician, present a cross-cultural, intergenerational collaborative suite that fuses a myriad of traditional and contemporary influences. The two are joined by their co-led Dakshina Ensemble with A. Kanyakumari (violin), Rez Abbasi (guitar/sitar-guitar), Carlo De Rosa (bass), Poovalur Sriji (mridangam-barrel drum), and royal hartigan (drum set).
#5 Posted by guarana on October 24, 2007 4:48:49 am
Re#1
"this article written 20/30 years ago would be published in a small Bombay magazine read by a couple of dozen people before the pages begin used to wrap paans in em."
I think he means that IF this article had been written 20/30 years ago it would have only been read by very few people and delegated to wrapping paans, since reach and variety of media was very restricted in those days.
That is how the meaning came across to me, not that he is implying that your article is 20/30 years old or not fresh,Gopal!!
Compulsory music lessons would add to any curriculum but I humbly feel they should be tailored differently for musical haves and have-nots...... those that have any level of ability should sing or play an instrument, whereas those that can't do that should be groomed to enjoy and listen to music as deeply as their minds will allow. I can't imagine that any topic, whether music or math, can be thrust down anybody's throat if they simply cannot swallow it. It may actually lead to severe dislike and defeat the purpose, entirely.
"this article written 20/30 years ago would be published in a small Bombay magazine read by a couple of dozen people before the pages begin used to wrap paans in em."
I think he means that IF this article had been written 20/30 years ago it would have only been read by very few people and delegated to wrapping paans, since reach and variety of media was very restricted in those days.
That is how the meaning came across to me, not that he is implying that your article is 20/30 years old or not fresh,Gopal!!
Compulsory music lessons would add to any curriculum but I humbly feel they should be tailored differently for musical haves and have-nots...... those that have any level of ability should sing or play an instrument, whereas those that can't do that should be groomed to enjoy and listen to music as deeply as their minds will allow. I can't imagine that any topic, whether music or math, can be thrust down anybody's throat if they simply cannot swallow it. It may actually lead to severe dislike and defeat the purpose, entirely.
#4 Posted by Dash_Dot on October 24, 2007 3:59:55 am
The loss of "classical music" appreciation is a natural tihng. High_Culture is inversely proportional to mass_democracy. High_culture includes classical music.
As you note not every one is musical eventhough we all think we have a great voice. And given the curent trend in technlogy every tone_deaf person becomes a great musician. And if we take Andy Warhol to heart every dick head has 5 minutes of fame. That is what modern music is all about.
Here is an experiment you can conduct yourself:
(a) take the last 3 months - make a note of the most memorable peice of music you heard (songs etc)
(b) go back now to 1 year and do the same
(c) increase the time period to 5 years
(d) 10 years
(e) start from childhood
You can if you want make the time periods more finer, the result would be similar.
The list for (e) will not include more that 1 song more the list in (a). And this one song will have all the attributes of the songs you have listed in (e) - rhythm, ryhme, lyrics, beat etc....and would go on to be a classic.
As you note not every one is musical eventhough we all think we have a great voice. And given the curent trend in technlogy every tone_deaf person becomes a great musician. And if we take Andy Warhol to heart every dick head has 5 minutes of fame. That is what modern music is all about.
Here is an experiment you can conduct yourself:
(a) take the last 3 months - make a note of the most memorable peice of music you heard (songs etc)
(b) go back now to 1 year and do the same
(c) increase the time period to 5 years
(d) 10 years
(e) start from childhood
You can if you want make the time periods more finer, the result would be similar.
The list for (e) will not include more that 1 song more the list in (a). And this one song will have all the attributes of the songs you have listed in (e) - rhythm, ryhme, lyrics, beat etc....and would go on to be a classic.
#3 Posted by Dash_Dot on October 24, 2007 3:48:40 am
VSG a great write up, you say
"would give the name of the song, the name of the film, the singer, the lyricist and music director before the film song was played"
the absence is a modern trend something which we need to get used to. However, I did notice on my recent holiday there, in India, the the AIR stations still use this format. Perhaps it is the pressure of trying to get x-number of songs in y number of minutes before the z minutes of Ads come on - that has caused this change.
"would give the name of the song, the name of the film, the singer, the lyricist and music director before the film song was played"
the absence is a modern trend something which we need to get used to. However, I did notice on my recent holiday there, in India, the the AIR stations still use this format. Perhaps it is the pressure of trying to get x-number of songs in y number of minutes before the z minutes of Ads come on - that has caused this change.
#2 Posted by vsgopal2000 on October 23, 2007 11:27:09 pm
Re: # 1
Dear Kulharee,
I am glad you are a tabla player, besides being an economist.You have musical background and so your comments are important to me.
Firstly I did not understand what you implied by the sentence containing "this article written 20/30 years ago".My article is fresh.
Secondly, you asked what use there was if young generation simply knew the names of ragas.The idea is that in due course of time the youngsters can be able to relate melodies to ragas and as they mature this would have laid the foundation for their developing an interest in classical music.
Thirdly, I agree with you that music should be made compulsory in schools.For example,in Germany,music is a compulsory subject in "gymnasiums".They call their high schools "gymnasium".One can learn any instrument.Almost every German can play an instrument.Strange that music did not temper them but they ran amuck like passioned murderers under Hitler !
Fourthly, I have always found Hindustani more aesthetical than Carnatic.There are some tuneful Carnatic songs (kritis) that I like listening to.Most of carnatic compositions tend to be clinical and technically faultless when rendered but not very nice for the ears (my ears at least).
-V.S.Gopalakrishnan
Dear Kulharee,
I am glad you are a tabla player, besides being an economist.You have musical background and so your comments are important to me.
Firstly I did not understand what you implied by the sentence containing "this article written 20/30 years ago".My article is fresh.
Secondly, you asked what use there was if young generation simply knew the names of ragas.The idea is that in due course of time the youngsters can be able to relate melodies to ragas and as they mature this would have laid the foundation for their developing an interest in classical music.
Thirdly, I agree with you that music should be made compulsory in schools.For example,in Germany,music is a compulsory subject in "gymnasiums".They call their high schools "gymnasium".One can learn any instrument.Almost every German can play an instrument.Strange that music did not temper them but they ran amuck like passioned murderers under Hitler !
Fourthly, I have always found Hindustani more aesthetical than Carnatic.There are some tuneful Carnatic songs (kritis) that I like listening to.Most of carnatic compositions tend to be clinical and technically faultless when rendered but not very nice for the ears (my ears at least).
-V.S.Gopalakrishnan
#1 Posted by Kulharee on October 23, 2007 11:42:38 am
Very passionate. The other side of the coin is that this article written 20/30 years ago would be published in a small Bombay magazine read by a couple of dozen people before the pages begin used to wrap paans in em. Having said that, it may be nice for young generation to know the names of ragas, but what good just knowing the names do? I would go a step further, and make learning music mandatory in elementary and middle schools, not only North Indian classical (Hindustani) but western classical as well.
As a wise woman once said, “Naam maiN kiya Rakha hey”? One doesn’t need to appreciate the laws of physics to enjoy a nice plane ride.
Mr. Gopalakrishnan, shouldn’t you be promoting Karnatik? Just a little premonition.
Nice write-up!
As a wise woman once said, “Naam maiN kiya Rakha hey”? One doesn’t need to appreciate the laws of physics to enjoy a nice plane ride.
Mr. Gopalakrishnan, shouldn’t you be promoting Karnatik? Just a little premonition.
Nice write-up!
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