Of Carnage and Triumph

Re: # 21 I think both of you have become EMOTIONAL. Good speech is worth nothing when not enforced by good deeds. Why people should follow BB or general as they are not doing good deeds and moral actions. What was use of big lecture by Bhutto senior after loosing E.Pakistan , it did not come by his lecture.
I think both you are in state of ditributing seets when general became overlord of Land. Mr. Hamid is sane man as he said after few days all magic you are feeling will be gone. Both are not talking about real thing Kashmir. I can understand army does not want to talk. I have sympathy and understanding for them . They become cynical or pragmatic about K war. What poor farm land from some martial district can expect from war ? He hopes just he will back in one peace back he does not get glory. But leaders have to force reluctant this peasant army young man to inspire for war and win. I feel not Kashimiri people are orphoned there is not even talking support. This K is centralised problem and no body is saying any thing and india appeasement on full scale and uneven balancre of trade is going on. Only dark people of South africa has shown some back bone by deciding to play matches, thanks mr. Mandela. This is going to great matches , Peoples games. I wonder Mr. Masadi is "banned" by some selfinterested people. I did not see him contribting . may usual trick of banning him.

Re: # 18

Very interesting observation.

BB is for the time being the best bet against the mullah take over of Paki land. She has also been forth right in stating her opposition to the mullahs turning jehadism into a big money spinning mafiaso business.

We all support her because the mullah Islam is the defacto fascistic ideology of the century that all the non muslims have to confront!!!

I went to the BBC and found a lot of PAkistanis and muslims blaming BB for what happened- it is like the "uncovered meat" analogy of the mullahs that seeks to blame the victims for their assault!!!

No wonder, Pakistani mullah Islam is the most wonderful ideology of the world!!

Allah hu!!

It is no wonder that tahmed would default to the offical American position of supporting BB, is there any surprise, and that he would talk the "democracy" talk when decisions about the BB and Musharraf have been already made in the corridors of power to the exclusion of the people of Pakistan? Not to mention the unnecessary carnage of the people of Pakistan in the rally by just these power brokers designed to build this legitimacy, information about the so-called threats to her were well publicized and then the even occured on target and on time- a thorough and complete inside job, once again butchering the people of Pakistan for the sake of the Americans and their occupation force (the Pak Army). What is most outrageous in this peon of the West (tahmed's) comments is that he compares the miserable BB, the corrupt, anti-people, dealer with the military and the Americans to the "finest hour" of ZAB, the friend of the people and the only true leader we have had...

In #28 read "information about the so-called threats to her were well publicized and then the even occured on target and on time.."

as

information about the so-called threats to her were well publicized and then the event occured on target and on time

Here is what a Paki said :

"If Benazir had a warning of these attacks (as she is claiming she had), why she did not delayed her arrival to Pakistan ? Why she did not take the option to fly to the venu on Helicopter when she was offered that? and why did she ignored the request by official to move her convoy faster?. Just because she wanted a huge welcome rally, she made so many people lost their lives. If she was sincere to her followers, she would have done anything to save their lives not putting them in dander.

Rehan Khan, NY, USA "

This what a european guy said:

"Condemning Benazir Bhutto for the fact that someone else sanctioned the murder of scores of civilians, in an attempt to kill her, is the logic of fools.

Andrew Sz, Budapest "

Indeed , Paki Islam is supreme!!

Re: # 18

bjkumar,

Totally agree with your assessment with one exception, BB has yet to prove her democratic credentials through party and state politics. Having said that, please accept my thanks for putting things in perspective.

here is another comment -

"I think the bomb was planted by Bhutto`s own people,she must have known,its a great plan! To make her get more support,to make Musharaf look bad&leave athird finger pointing anywhere,from islamists to Talibanis or even Kashmiri`s.What a plan?

ali mustafa, hamar, Norway "

i wish Benazir had been killed in this attack. Untill she is alive there is a chance of pakistani people being ruled by a woman once again.what a great shame.chee chee....

(untill she is alive...i support 8th ammendment and the president's right to dissolve assemblies....at least he would be 'one degree over the Prime Minister'.

.....one has to be amazed at the forgiving nature of pakistanis, on this site.....benazir has thoroughly destroyed pakistan; not once, but twice.....the corruption cases against her are so long and wide that the swiss and spanish judiciary will be in shock when they are withdrawn......

.......as for her democratic credentials - she is the lifetime chairperson of her political party, and makes all policies single-handedly......

......i suppose all it takes is to make a few noises against mullahs and one becomes kosher again......that has to be the height of fanaticism......even maulvis don't follow their leaders so fanatically......

.......there are plenty of people in ppp who can lead it.....far better than bb......however, they will never get the chance, as long as there are pakistanis who are ready to forgive every sin of bb.......

.......but as they say, be careful what you wish for; just take a look at the category of individuals who are her key advisors - just take a look at who was on the truck with her, i.e. her top leadership:

it was benazir (a huge feudal), amin fahim (a feudal and a big heridatory pir, who has four sisters married to the quran), shah mehmood qureshi (another pir from the bahauddin zakaria clan? of south punjab), abida hussein (a pir, along with her husband and feudal, who was in pml(q) and recently joined ppp, when she lost the election to her nephew, faisal saleh - interestingly faisal quit the ppp and joined pml(q), after winning the election!!), yusuf raza gilan (pir of south punjab of gilani clan)......

out of all the of the above, only gilani is a credible person.....he has given up his piri-faqiri and lives in lahore......he was sent to jail for four and a half years, on false charges, by musharraf.....i am quite sure, he must be extremely unhappy over the current deal of bb-musharraf....

.....this is the top ppp leadership......useless pirs and feudals.......if anyone hasn't seen these pirs in operation, i suggest you do so.......they make the village mullah look like a saint.....these pirs have tens of thousands of disciples in their constituencies, who do all kinds of strange things.....they consider these pirs to be the descendents of prophet muhammad.......their disciples rub the dirt these guys walk on, on their bodies....they touch their feet.......they even give away their lands to them......it is quite pathetic.......these guys in turn use this.......they never work their whole life, and just enjoy themselves in politics......

.......ppp has a much better leadership available........people like aitezaz ahsan......these are the guys who will come to the top, if bb goes.......

unfortunately, pakistanis seem hell-bent on putting themselves through the same torture.......so if and when bb comes back, we have no one to blame but ourselves (specially the educated crowd).....rest assured her and her husband will, once again, be the bonnie and clyde of pakistan......

after which there will be another martial law......which will be welcomed by the people, and the cycle will continue.....bb has had her two chances.....time for someone else........anyone else......

Re: # 33

"n.what a great shame.chee chee...."

sorry mullah ji .... she is now gong to deflate your 'philosophical' dreams of houries in the jannah!!

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Re: # 5 ["...... stop being so melodramatic ! .... in another week or so most pakis will forget about this ...we are a very resilient (dheet) people ..."

Hamid ji

The word is not dheet but, more properly, bay-gharat or bay-sharam... You are correct about the Paki short memory. The Lal Masjid is already a distant memory. But both of these are just small events, a few hundred dead here and there. If remember clearly, how that Nutfa-i-Haram, Qaid-i-Awam quickly managed to encourage national amnesia about the fiasco in Bangal, when the ignominious na-Pak fauj got the dog-shit beaten out of it. Within months no one was even talking about it any more.

As for melodramma, well, that is our trade-mark. We are Pakis and we loooooove dramma. Just look at the Brothel Bitch as she dismounts her Pegasus, passing under the Quran, tasbeeh in hand, crocodile tears in the eyes.

What I lamented was a return to "sham democracy" after eight years of "sham martial law" ... ('Auntie' Mubashir Hussain, ZAB's finance minister, calls it "Martial Law of the Hijhrahs") ... back to square zero. It's like "Wheels of the bus go round and round, round and round, all through the Town..."

And then Ras bhai chimes in and admonishes me to "...please cut back on the strong stuff..."

Phuckistan is well and truly phucked.

I'd better get off line and go take a walk on trail 3 of the Margalla Hills. The weather is Islamabad is the only thing that is beautiful today.

...SR

"#34 Posted by bulleya on October 20, 2007 2:37:03 am
.....one has to be amazed at the forgiving nature of pakistanis, on this site.....benazir has thoroughly destroyed pakistan; not once, but twice.....the corruption cases against her are so long and wide that the swiss and spanish judiciary will be in shock when they are withdrawn......

.......as for her democratic credentials - she is the lifetime chairperson of her political party, and makes all policies single-handedly......"


Bulleya this is not new the pakistani people have done it in the past when a whore called ZAB offered them her breast for succor after their fight they didnt look at what he wanted in return or how his own machinations had led to that situation but instead thought of that whore as their mother. Actually calling him whore is an insult to the whores who have a milion times more honor and honesty than him

What can you expect from the child of such swine. He is famed to have come out after having had sex with Benazir's mother and announcing to a room ful of his cronies that "he was done with the bitch and that anyone else could have his turn"

Now Pakistanis are doing the same with his bitch daughter who has offered them her breast, they care not in their craze what she did in the past, or how she has engineered this situation or why she has come back.

That is why the pakistani people deserve their leaders, they will have to spend a thousand years in purgatory

Sorry mullah-philosopher ji your knowledge of idolator's philosophy is nothing more than what you read in your chavanni tafsirs of your maulanas that you picked up from the streets of hira mandi.

Perhaps you need to drink some camel mutra as prescribed by your prophet in order to become a wise momeen. You are perhaps ignorant because one of the biggest linga is in the kabba - the sanga awestha or the black stone . Remember, if your Al-Lah comes to know that the prophet and his momeen followrs were actually kissing the biggest linga and calling it one of the PILLARS of Islam- then be sure to experience the fires of his torture cell called jahannum. Are you sure if the Prophet is not in his jahannum??


Here is some thing to read and think -

"Since Eed means worship and Griha means ‘house’, the Islamic word Idgah signifies a ‘House of worship’ which is the exact Sanskrit connotation of the term. Similarly the word ‘Namaz’ derives from two Sanskrit roots ‘Nama’ and ‘Yajna’ (NAMa yAJna) meaning bowing and worshipping.

Vedic descriptions about the moon, the different stellar constellations and the creation of the universe have been incorporated from the Vedas in Koran part 1 chapter 2, stanza 113, 114, 115, and 158, 189, chapter 9, stanza 37 and chapter 10, stanzas 4 to 7.

Recital of the Namaz five times a day owes its origin to the Vedic injunction of Panchmahayagna (five daily worship- Panch-Maha-Yagna) which is part of the daily Vedic ritual prescribed for all individuals.

Muslims are enjoined cleanliness of five parts of the body before commencing prayers. This derives from the Vedic injuction ‘Shareer Shydhyartham Panchanga Nyasah’.

Four months of the year are regarded as very sacred in Islamic custom. The devout are enjoined to abstain from plunder and other evil deeds during that period. This originates in the Chaturmasa i.e., the four-month period of special vows and austerities in Hindu tradition. Shabibarat is the corrupt form of Shiva Vrat and Shiva Ratra. Since the Kaaba has been an important centre of Shiva (Siva) worship from times immemorial, the Shivaratri festival used to be celebrated there with great gusto. It is that festival which is signified by the Islamic word Shabibarat.

Encyclopaedias tell us that there are inscriptions on the side of the Kaaba walls. What they are, no body has been allowed to study, according to the correspondence I had with an American scholar of Arabic. But according to hearsay at least some of those inscriptions are in Sanskrit, and some of them are stanzas from the Bhagavad Gita.

According to extant Islamic records, Indian merchants had settled in Arabia, particularly in Yemen, and their life and manners deeply influenced those who came in touch with them. At Ubla there was a large number of Indian settlements. This shows that Indians were in Arabia and Yemen in sufficient strength and commanding position to be able to influence the local people. This could not be possible unless they belonged to the ruling class.

It is mentioned in the Abadis i.e., the authentic traditions of Prophet Mohammad compiled by Imam Bukhari that the Indian tribe of Jats had settled in Arabia before Prophet Mohammad’s times. Once when Hazrat Ayesha, wife of the Prophet, was taken ill, her nephew sent for a Jat physician for her treatment. This proves that Indians enjoyed a high and esteemed status in Arabia. Such a status could not be theirs unless they were the rulers. Bukhari also tells us that an Indian Raja (king) sent a jar of ginger pickles to the Prophet. This shows that the Indian Jat Raja ruled an adjacent area so as to be in a position to send such an insignificant present as ginger pickles. The Prophet is said to have so highly relished it as to have told his colleagues also to partake of it. These references show that even during Prophet Mohammad’s times Indians retained their influential role in Arabia, which was a dwindling legacy from Vikramaditya’s times.

The Islamic term ‘Eed-ul-Fitr’ derives from the ‘Eed of Piters’ that is worship of forefathers in Sanskrit tradition. In India, Hindus commemorate their ancestors during the Pitr-Paksha that is the fortnight reserved for their remembrance. The very same is the significance of ‘Eed-ul-Fitr’ (worship of forefathers).

The Islamic practice of observing the moon rise before deciding on celebrating the occasion derives from the Hindu custom of breaking fast on Sankranti and Vinayaki Chaturthi only after sighting the moon.

Barah Vafat, the Muslim festival for commemorating those dead in battle or by weapons, derives from a similar Sanskrit tradition because in Sanskrit ‘Phiphaut’ is ‘death’. Hindus observe Chayal Chaturdashi in memory of those who have died in battle.

The word Arabia is itself the abbreviation of a Sanskrit word. The original word is ‘Arabasthan’. Since Prakrit ‘B’ is Sanskrit ‘V’ the original Sanskrit name of the land is ‘Arvasthan’. ‘Arva’ in Sanskrit means a horse. Arvasthan signifies a land of horses., and as well all know, Arabia is famous for its horses.

This discovery changes the entire complexion of the history of ancient India. Firstly we may have to revise our concepts about the king who had the largest empire in history. It could be that the expanse of king Vikramaditya’s empire was greater than that of all others. Secondly, the idea that the Indian empire spread only to the east and not in the west beyond say, Afghanisthan may have to be abandoned. Thirdly the effeminate and pathetic belief that India, unlike any other country in the world could by some age spread her benign and beatific cultural influence, language, customs, manners and education over distant lands without militarily conquering them is baseless. India did conquer all those countries physically wherever traces of its culture and language are still extant and the region extended from Bali island in the south Pacific to the Baltic in Northern Europe and from Korea to Kaaba. The only difference was that while Indian rulers identified themselves with the local population and established welfare states, Moghuls and others who ruled conquered lands perpetuated untold atrocities over the vanquished.

‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ tells us that a pan-Arabic poetic symposium used to be held in Mecca at the annual Okaj fair in pre-Islamic times. All leading poets used to participate in it.

Poems considered best were awarded prizes. The best-engraved on gold plate were hung inside the temple. Others etched on camel or goatskin were hung outside. Thus for thousands of years the Kaaba was the treasure house of the best Arabian poetic thought inspired by the Indian Vedic tradition.

That tradition being of immemorial antiquity many poetic compositions were engraved and hung inside and outside on the walls of the Kaaba. But most of the poems got lost and destroyed during the storming of the Kaaba by Prophet Mohammad’s troops. The Prophet’s court poet, Hassan-bin-Sawik, who was among the invaders, captured some of the treasured poems and dumped the gold plate on which they were inscribed in his own home. Sawik’s grandson, hoping to earn a reward carried those gold plates to Khalif’s court where he met the well-known Arab scholar Abu Amir Asamai. The latter received from the bearer five gold plates and 16 leather sheets with the prize-winning poems engraved on them. The bearer was sent away happy bestowed with a good reward.

On the five gold plates were inscribed verses by ancient Arab poets like Labi Baynay, Akhatab-bin-Turfa and Jarrham Bintoi. That discovery made Harun-al-Rashid order Abu Amir to compile a collection of all earlier compositions. One of the compositions in the collection is a tribute in verse paid by Jarrham Bintoi, a renowned Arab poet, to king Vikramaditya. Bintoi who lived 165 years before Prophet Mohammad had received the highest award for the best poetic compositions for three years in succession in the pan-Arabic symposiums held in Mecca every year. All those three poems of Bintoi adjudged best were hung inside the Kaaba temple, inscribed on gold plates. One of these constituted an unreserved tribute to King Vikramaditya for his paternal and filial rule over Arabia. That has already been quoted above.

Pre-Islamic Arabian poet Bintoi’s tribute to king Vikramaditya is a decisive evidence that it was king Vikramaditya who first conquered the Arabian Peninsula and made it a part of the Indian Empire. This explains why starting from India towards the west we have all Sanskrit names like Afghanisthan (now Afghanistan), Baluchisthan, Kurdisthan, Tajikiathan, Uzbekisthan, Iran, Sivisthan, Iraq, Arvasthan, Turkesthan (Turkmenisthan) etc.

Historians have blundered in not giving due weight to the evidence provided by Sanskrit names pervading over the entire west Asian region. Let us take a contemporary instance. Why did a part of India get named Nagaland even after the end of British rule over India? After all historical traces are wiped out of human memory, will a future age historian be wrong if he concludes from the name Nagaland that the British or some English speaking power must have ruled over India? Why is Portuguese spoken in Goa (part of India), and French in Pondichery (part of India), and both French and English in Canada? Is it not because those people ruled over the territories where their languages are spoken? Can we not then justly conclude that wherever traces of Sanskrit names and traditions exist Indians once held sway? It is unfortunate that this important piece of decisive evidence has been ignored all these centuries.

Another question which should have presented itself to historians for consideration is how could it be that Indian empires could extend in the east as far as Korea and Japan, while not being able to make headway beyond Afghanisthan? In fact land campaigns are much easier to conduct than by sea. It was the Indians who ruled the entire West Asian region from Karachi to Hedjaz and who gave Sanskrit names to those lands and the towns therein, introduce their pantheon of the fire-worship, imparted education and established law and order.

It may be that Arabia itself was not part of the Indian empire until king Vikrama , since Bintoi says that it was king Vikrama who for the first time brought about a radical change in the social, cultural and political life of Arabia. It may be that the whole of West Asia except Arabia was under Indian rule before Vikrama. The latter added Arabia too to the Indian Empire. Or as a remote possibility it could be that king Vikramaditya himself conducted a series of brilliant campaigns annexing to his empire the vast region between Afghanisthan and Hedjaz."

The poor little woman, benazir says that she is ready to fight terrorism. No madam, you are not going to do that simply because there is no one in pakistan who can do that.

The army still has 300 soldiers captive by the taliban. At last the truth is out, the so called 80,000 pak troops on the afghna boreder to prevent the taliban moving to afghanistan are hiding in their barracks, never daring to venture out.

Benzir madam, take it from me, jayp, the terrorists are going to take over pakistan. The pak troops have surrendred wziristan to the terrorists, teh pak troops will be withdrawn, and they will concentrate on ruling what is left of pakistan.

Benazir, you can be the prime minister, hoarde a few more millions outside of pakistan so that it will help you in the next exile, that is if you manage not to go out and get bombed again.

In teh mean time, do not mention AQ Kahan and his interview with the americans.