Thank You Suicide Bomber! No one is talking about my 1.5 Billion anymore!

abu i know very well that women and children and many innocent people are dying and ofcourse that is terrible. Is it better if even more people die in full scale war?

America invaded Iraq on the suspicion that they might have arms or whatever , they invaded afghanistan for housing the OBL ...we are already a nuclear country (OK our nukes dont go to far) we are also the only country in the world who currently has what they want - OBL. If we could just have handed him over in what was is ? 2004 ...this would be whole diff story.

Without a handover of OBL and AQ's leadership US is never coming to the table for negotiations are you kidding me? what leverage do we have over them? are we giving them aid ?

They may not officially "win" the war in iraq but they have already achieved their real objective (securing oil) despite the millions of innocent lives (and their own) that it cost them . And they will meet their objectives in Pakistan too by whatever means neccessary.

Please there is nothing diff. about this. You are supporting a genocide in which innocent women, kids and old r being slaughtered. When they drop a bomb from the skies it doesnt only kill 'terrorist' alone. This is exactly what i am saying..its a cliche that these ppl were the blue eyed boys of the CIA not 2 long ago n now the same folks r terrorist...how come no one gets an answer from u.s establishment...u ass-holes u created them..u taught them how to fight a gurreila war...thats what they know...ur Army made qabayil give residence to these foreign fighters ..they have been living there for decades now....but now that they families there u want them out? i am sorry but nations that r not suicidal but at the same time don't take off there pants when asked to take off there shirt r capable of standing up to american might....usa is no position to attack another country..r u kiddin...everyone would have to come on the table....there is no military solution to this fiasco...if they can't force there will in Iraq what makes u think ..it can happen in FATA. The world will listen to us if a democratic govt. tells them..listen there is no only so much we can do...nato is in afghanistan..how many talibans have they captured in afghanistan ...can someone tell me..n rest assure taliban leadership is in afghanistan ..why wouldnt they be..its not like hamid karzai has any say beyond his presidential palace...for all intent n purpose south of afghanistan is still ruled by mullah omer...my point is that don't support aggression n oppression just cause u have philosophical diff. with them....when innocent die they can never be collateral damage...we need to be less pragmatic n more idealistic when it comes to human lives

Abu its not an ethnic thing. I would say exactly the same thing if the AQ was based out of karachi. Unlike karachi AND bangladesh this army action is different. It was FORCED on us because as you know the alternative is a full scale war that we can only lose badly against america. If India had america breathing down their necks for some reason believe me they wouldve dropped bombs all over kashmir ...that wasnt the situation so its incomparable.

Turkey can afford to not cooperate with america not due to democracy but because turkey is NOT housing OBL or the Taliban ...if they had how quick do you think they would have folded? again incomparable circumstances.

Abu i agree that people can live however they want to even in ways i dont agree with ...but once again these are not peace times ...democracy has got nothing to do with it. The north west is housing international criminals and no matter what situational defence you want to make for those guys they are people who are anti state ...infact anti every state ...you name it afghanistan pakistan saudi arabia US UK. They are notholding debates and handing out pamphlets for nonviolent protest their ideology has been extremely violent and at this point even if we wanted to turn a blind eye (which we likely would have) the world wont let us go to sleep on the issue. So in that way NO the people supporting them can NOT be allowed to follow their own lifestyles if their lifestyle includes aiding and abetting them ...as Pakistanis dont have a choice on this. Its cooperate or go to war and lose big time. There is no third solution.

Clifton...there r numerous misnomers in ur post. First off not every country deal with miscreants with the ferocity that our brave Army displays. India has never used gunship helicopters in kashmir...as a matter of fact no country has used it on there own citizens. Ironically when they actually meet a real Army..they usually r ready to drop weapons n run to mommy..its the civilians that they r master of annihilating. Be very careful because not too long ago we in khi were the miscreants and when naseerullah babar n his sho's would shoot our young un's at point blank range or take them on the 10th floor of al-asif aquare in sohrab goth and then force them to jump to end up being minced meat...it was the same rhetoric that 'patriotic enlightened women' of punjab would serve.

These jihadis arent created in a vacuum...when ur brave Army refuses to fight there wars..whether it is Afghanistan or kashmir and instead recruit poor villagers to fight it thru proxy than its ur army who has created a frankenstein. If the taliban n alqayida come to ur cities n try 2 enforce there lifestyle on u then retaliate but they have the right to live however they want in there own house..its called demcracy..do u really think that if u had a fair election in FATA..... MQM would win..let them live in there house....they have lived like this for centuries..ur army n ur estab. army has used them n in return has always given them certain freedoms.

I agree ...u don't want to piss of the americans..n no one should have this romantic notion that we can fight them with our imaan alone...in this sorry state we'll only fight a war that is imposed on us..we dont want 2 invite aggression...but thats why democracy is necessary..look at turkey..they told americans..listen yo all we love u but we r politicians n we have to go back in our constituency n they hate u over there so we can only go so far...general on the other hand doesnt have that luxury..thats why americans prefer dictators in american countries

Urstruly and other like-minded Pakistanis,

It is a great mistake to assume that the average soldier of any country fights on the basis of ideology. Most such soldiers fight because that is their job and they have a sense of professionalism and if they have the right training, they are also driven by a sense of integrity.

The worst thing one can do to a man is to take away his sense of pride in what he does! One can kiss all accomplishments goodbye from that point on.

In my opinion, India whipped Pakistani behind in 1971 not because of superior military power – but because Pakistani troops were demoralized – because in their heart they did not believe that the atrocity they were perpetrating on the East Bengali civilians was the right thing to do. It is one thing to fight for one’s life under guerilla attack – it is quite another to attack a hapless population which poses no threat – simply to “punish” the same.

They did not believe their “leaders” of the time – who happened to be wearing khaki – and when the time came for the real fight with the Indians, they had no heart left to fight.

The greatest failure of Pakistan has been – and at the moment, it is also the failure that is being most missed – is an ability to develop leaders with the right values.

Yes, the right values! The human values!

Whether a few pieces of land continue to hold a “country” together administratively is meaningless. What gives a nation meaning and spirit is whether those living in those geographic pieces feel a sense of solidarity and identification with each other; whether they feel magnanimous enough to be proud of the accomplishments of the others, and whether they feel comfortable enough in their own identities to gently correct others when those others make mistakes – and assuming those people are human, they invariably shall!

Hate is like a surge of adrenalin – it can give one a feeling, a “rush” of power – but it is not self-sustaining and the average human will not retain it for long. I like to think that Gandhiji was right when he said that every one of us retains a bit of God and because of that fact – also retains inherent goodness which is like light to drive away the darkness that hate represents.

Only light can drive darkness away!

In my opinion, Mr. Jinnah used the element of hate to “unite” those who wanted Pakistan. He got what he wanted – because what he wanted was very limited – and he only wanted it for his “clients”! But the population at large got deprived of something much more important in the process. They got their make-believe pseudo-Arab-identity but in the process lost their common sense humanity – which was the most vitally needed element.

Those who still feel they are Jinnah’s “clients” to this day have signed off to their “lawyer” more than they can afford – they have signed off their souls!

Jinnah died, of course. But I have little doubt that even if he had lived on, he would have become irrelevant in Pakistan faster than most Pakistanis would like to admit – a bit like the Sheikh Mujib became in Bangladesh. One can ride the "against them" train only so far before it runs out of fuel.

Do not bad-mouth the khaki “piyadas” – they fight only for a few nickels and dimes – and they fight only to support their own families and in many cases, are the sole source of such support!

And they run away because of the same reason – not because they are cowards but because they do not want their family members to loose the breadwinner for a cause they do not believe in their heart and suspect that their superiors believe even less in!

So do not bad-mouth the lay soldier, but see if y’all got the guts to fight the real enemy that lurks within – and the real enemy is called vanity and it comes wearing many garbs – one of those garbs is the urge to “prove that your line of thinking is the only right line of thinking” and its unmistakable characteristic is that it considers that all means are justified for satisfying itself!

Urstruly:

How can you compare military firing on a peaceful assembly to an army fighting insurgency to maintain the integrity of the country? In any case, even in the case of the Jalianwala massacre, people like Udham Singh and Bhagat Singh went after those who had ordered those soldiers and not the soldiers themselves. Ordinary soldiers are just doing their jobs, just as you and I are doing our jobs though, in the process, we too end up supporting the policies of the countries we live in.

It is devastating to keep reading about the deaths and mayhem in pakistan. But this is getting a little warped.

Firstly lets just admit for a sec that EVERY state punishes 'antistate" violence with violence. Sure most countries have trials and judges but thats an ideal best left to countries where people earn enough to pay for a system.

Secondly urstruly sahab you should absolutely care about the integrity of pakistan not out of patriotism but humanism. Would you rather see iraq style massacres in every part of the disintegrating country? Is innocent human life only important to you when you agree with their politics?

Thirdly people seem to forget that Pakistan is very much housing al qauida and al quaida supporters not to mention taliban head honcho's. If our army did not collaborate with the US do you think the US would just shrug their shoulders and go home? Or would they bomb the living hell out of our country? Would that be a smarter strategy ? would it result in less death?

I mean give our troops a break. Do you think they LIKE killing other people? What recourse do they have? Should they just disarm? Im OK with that. Yes OK maybe the patriotic thing to do is to disarm rather than kill innocents...but what about the crazy zealots are they expected to disarm too? in the name of patriotism? Ofcourse not, see thats the crunch. We all criticise the excess brutality of the army but only loony tunes think the army should unilaterally disarm and let mad zealots run crazy all over the country and thereby invite nuclear holocaust.

It is entirely the simple misguided people of Pakistan who have by worshipping some dumb ideology or the other kept themselves illiterate stupid and powerless. And the next decade is going to be dedicated to tilting at windmills and fighting each other like savages thereby ensuring another few generations of stupidity illiteracy and weakness.

I would like to think that our incredible sadness and humiliation might lead the pakistani people to think - wait a minute maybe there is something wrong with our society our government and our politics ...but no. Feudalism tribalism chauvanism misogyny and illiteratism gets another pass. The only hatred i ever see is directed to the people who capitalise on our weakness ...never the ones who make us so pathetically weak.

RE: #123 Posted by Urstruly


Another one bites the dust and finally

loses his marbles...

And we talk ill of PPP Jiyalas on CHOWK...


Too much Lassi is being passed around.

One should know his limit...

Re: # 123

urstruy,

... you define "impotent rage"

Re: # 108 Dost Mitter.

I bet the 95% of the soldiers who fired their machineguns at the unarmed civilians in Jalianwala bagh had names like urstruly, dostmiter, hamidm, and tahmad rather than Tom, Dick, and Harry. What separated those soldiers from their victims was an ideology. It was an ideology that had desensitized those soldiers of the cruety towards their own flesh and blood. In other words it is not the flesh and blood, language and ethnicity, it is the ideology that defines a human being. The soldiers of NaPak fouj have chosen their sides and have no remores or mercy over killing even school children of citizens of Pakistan. The ordinary citizen of Pakistan has chosen his side as well. Our ways have parted. Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it. Had we had dealt with the murderers of Jalianwala sternly, justly and with retribution of equal magnitude our vassalage wouldn't have been so long. Times have changed. Now every cruelty, every torture, and every killing these bastard children of East India company do to the people of Pakistan is met with the retribution which is swift, stern, and deadly. Those days of cliche soldier of Pak Army who sits in the freezing temperatutes of Siachin are over. Now people ask, Oye Madarchodo, how come we lose Pakistani territory to enemy everytime when you are on the watch.Now people say "Go fuck yourselves -coward, cruel, corrupt fucks"

Frankly I do not give a fuck even to the integrity of Pakistan any more. Countries and armies are created for the protection and well being of its citizens and not that some haramkhor with guns start devouring their children. Any territory that NaPak fouj loses will win its freedom from these haramis. Potowar may very well shove this fouj in their ass. Fuck them too.

Hamidm

'...but it is romair that i really worry about - this boy has some major problems ..... '

A black politician once said that he is not afraid of the the people wearing hoods on their heads(KKK), he is worried about the corporate types who have the hoods in their heart.

I could be wrong but Romair, reminds me of that.

Re: # 104

LOL

That potato would legislate to make it mandatory for all Pakistanis to huddle along side each other and bang their heads 5 times a day to increase their Pakistaniyat!!

It would be a great spectacle to see an entire nation passing gas from posterior in unison!!

Re: # 111

Arjun5:

"100% of his predictions of the past turned out to be completely true. "

Clearly, you agree that he has perfect memory about the past. I am glad you acknowledged. Hamidm needs to be pursuaded too.

Re: # 116

tahmed,

.... zeemax is the prodigal son - he will come back ..... he and i both agree on nawaz sharif and one of these days, as soon as he gets over his fear of death, he will begin to see the evil in his new found religion ....... these born again types can be a little obstinate, but most of them fall off the camel train sooner or later - all it takes is a taste of good whiskey or a curvy blonde ........ but it is romair that i really worry about - this boy has some major problems .....

shankar: do you have a psychiatric opinion to offer to help shed light on why Pakistanis cant get along with one another?

hamidm: Where did you go wrong in raising these two boys, urstruly and zeemax? Too busy with your corporate life to care, I bet. That is why we have so many problems in Pakistan - parents neglecting their children, not reading books to them, letting them go astray in bad company, and next thing you know they are talking about blood and gore and heads rolling!!