Indian Exceptionalism: Colonial Stereotypes and Postcolonial Realities

Re: # 38
(# 37)

Neembu

Thanks. You have answered the questions better than I could have and raise very important issues.

Is it a bad thing that Dalits use the same logic to gain political capital and voice? The quick answer: it is not a bad thing only as long as that does not shut out other voices, within or outside the Dalit community. But already there is some evidence that some segments of the highly fractured (by region, language, gender, and religion etc.) community will benefit more than others from this narrative.

I also think that Dalits are subject to the same criticism as any other Indian community.

Re: you other point, about anglo-Indians. Anglo-Indian identity provokes all sorts of anxieties about what defines Indian identity.

Two stereotypes about Anglo-Indians are (a) that they are not really 'true' Indians because of their partly European lineage and (b) during colonial rule their loyalty lay with the British.

But exactly the same points can be made about every Indian community

Every Indian community claims that other Indian groups are 'outsiders' and insists they are the original Indians.

Secondly, during colonial rule many Indian/ South Asian communities defined themselves as loyal to the British: in the carnage after the revolt of 1857 as historian Rajat Kanta Ray points out, the bhadralok Bengali Hindu students in Indian colleges prayed for the victory of the British; Syed Ahmed Khan insisted Muslims were friends of the British; the 'martial races' of Sikhs, Jats, and Gurkhas were considered extremely loyal; Christians and Parsis also
swore allegiance to the British.

Of course everyone of these communities also participated in the anticolonial struggle.

But if one questions Anglo-Indian loyalty to India, one has to question the loyalty of other groups too. This, I think, is one main reason for the silence about them.

Regards
Rohit

Re: # 32

because labor, even intellectual, is unglamorous and tedious.

antihistory,

also, why are anglo indians not absorbed into the national narrative? are they symbols of colonial transgression, unplaceable entities in colonial/colonized/postcolonial structures? is their otherness to mainstream india indicated by paticular policies and are there places in which they enact agency?

Re: # 33

antihistory,

so in appropriating the conceptual language of this dominant voice, the Dalit community replicates/works within the system of dominant narrative and performs the same construction, only in their case, their history/identity is foregrounded.

Is this completely a bad thing? If I understand your thesis correctly, replicating/appropriating the dominant narrative enacts a kind of binary dialogue which is antithetical to development of Indian plurality in its multiplicity of voices, identities, experiences and narratives.

But is there nothing interrogative in a minority's usage of the dominant voice? I'm thinking of Audre Lorde's oft quoted using the master's tools to dismantle the master's house?

Rohit, you prove your utter brilliance everytime you write a couple of words.

From # 35, we learn the following about Indian Exceptionalism:

(1) Hindu Right and (non-Hindu) Indian Left don't consider each other 'true' Indians.

(2) SC/ST are "shut out" by both Hindu Right and (non-Hindu) Left.

(3) SC/ST now call all others not true Indians.

(4) Indian political discourse doesn't recognize Anglo Indians.

(5) 1-4 constitute Indian Exceptionalism.

hamidm sahib, that is simple too. At the very top, there can't be a greater number of intellectuals than one can count on one's fingers. And on chowk, all of us are lucky to have neembu ji and rohit bhai.

Re: # 29 Racism is completely dominating all west. And browns are flooded with bad stuff.They act as buffer between whites and blacks and get squeezed by both. Like maximum des people are killed by black people as des people make money on backs of people by selling them venom of alcohol and black muslims have found that alcohol is problem and desis are spreading that stuff as agents of white to destroy black race. Now here brainwashed desi do not understand he is more near to blacks culturally and colorwise than their master white people. He becomes "peon" of wast as friend and great thinking person on clear lines like Mr.Masadi. I first ponted and supported his line of thinking but they just bann him to silence him very mean ways of elites. Now our caused of pakistani interest can advanced lot in USA if expak becomes friends of black leaders and contributr money to leaders of oppressed people. Instead of that little pakistani fine man when lands in Newyork he calls this misfortunate black group of people dangerous instead of understanding his suffering of 400 years and join elites group. If it goes on desi will have to run back to indo pak as Blacks can not hurt white interests they can attack brown man whio is small arms harmless and physical weak. There is common between blacks are most of muslims but arabs insult them by excluding them they understand and resent. As arabs will by big car and ask date white but not muslim dark woman. It feels very angry to blacks as they made lots of money on black slave trading and they have not forgotten that. Black population is on rise if pakistanis can connect with them culturally they can help lot in future but they will not as they will not mind if muslima will marry jewish boy but never black man. But things change slowly and dark+ brown population is going up and so called dna and tests will level with time as you put saffron in milk in time all looks yellow. Only one should be patient.

Re# 13

Neembu:

Thanks for your mail. Your reading is absolutely correct that some weaker and vulnerable groups are shut out when they face dominant voices. I will clarify what I meant in the paragraph and then provide a couple of examples of this.

Usually in Indian politics, the Left and Right are seen as opposed in their views and ideology. No doubt they have different agendas.

However, each of them has an idea of what a 'true' Indian is or what the essence of Indian culture is. The Left will say that Indians are naturally socialist and not materialistic and there is some natural quality of secularism that all Indians have. The Hindu Right will say that a certain version of upper caste Hinduism is what truly defines Indian culture.

Both have this idea that there is some true quality of Indian identity, although they define that quality differently.

But where is this quality? Where does it lie? One can always show enough counter-examples to prove that it is fictional: an article of faith.

And no matter how many debates take place, this idea of unique Indianness always survives and endures.

This is what I meant by the statement that the illusory center of exceptionalism always survives.

Examples of communities that are shut out by this idea: Dalits and the indigenous communities that are designated STs, for example. The irony though is that Dalits, to make their voice heard, now also have started arguing that they are the only true and 'original' Indians. They are following the same logic.

Another example is would be Anglo-Indians. They have been completely invisible and marginalized in the political conversation in post-independence India, because that conversation cannot recognize them.

Regards
Rohit Chopra

Re: # 30

saminasha,

sorry .... i will leave this board to the intellectuals so that they can discuss this important issues, but before i leave i have to ask you one thing:

....why do these hifalutin discussions always take place on cspan in a tiny conference room with two dozen tired looking men and women in worn out tweed jackets and bad hairdos sitting on hard chairs that are not properly lined up?........ why is the panel always shuffling papers and why do they always speak in a monotone? .... why do they drink coffee out of paper cups and why don't they have donuts on the table in the corner? ....

Alas, hamdim2 sahib, you are as bigoted and behind the curve as I am. Blame grandfather gopinath for our anti-intellectualism - our inability to keep pace with every-day scientific advancements proving rohit right. :(

-------------------------

Neembu's # 25, agreed. That's what US-Israel-India alliance against good things means.

That is one exceptionalism rohit might not mind acknowledging - the exceptionalism of US-Israel-India evil/colonialism/injustice etc.

Re: # 28

hamid unkil,

thanks for attempting to turn this board into another anti intellectual forum for your stand up. it's so respectful of the labor and focus of academics who serve an important purpose in our societies.

later.

Re: # 18 One way of west elites to keep down people of color is to take tests which are biased against people of dark and brown color. When tests produce results as wanted ( balcks, asians, dark, brown and china race gets lesser marks in these prejudiced tests.) Real master or very matured person will never take test, why he /she should subject to recist tests. Tests are just designed to keep people down like indian, pakistanis, blacks and latin americans. Actually all people who are oppressed from america should just boycott recist exams which at one stroke decide some group of people are underclass are recist and should be abolished. All people should have freedom to study whatever they want. That is reason Indian and pakistani people are suffering and going hungry and angry in England and ameria etc.Now all black brown people are very poor generally so they suffer in every way. IF same income level people of all reces tasted all will have same results. Also black and brown people have suffered lot by slavery and they are not given intelligent work for hundreds of years so they slowly get their DNA count number down naturally. Just like now if you take very uneducated landless woman from Sindhi bad rural areas she can not match urban and universal and well travelled person or well fed, well educated and brought up as potential leader like B.Bhutto, there is no comparison. What people should strive not for equal opportunity but "EQUAL OUTCOME" that is need of time. Then america will be defeated and all worlds people will come up and go to USA etc. Why national boundaries just protect elites from world poor masses. Soon time will come when hundreds of millions of Chines, Indians , Muslims and arabs will flood usa if this artificial barrers pulled dowm. As free markets need free workers movement. Just as white people came to Des and dark loands of africa and asia they did not ask permission. Similarly all arab oil is used by elites and arab instead of gratitude get big western shaft and nothing. People of color should just move to west and and remould oppressive lands in to lands of brotherhood, and lands of plenty.

Re: # 26

kaal,

... i was completely turned off by the first sentence ... i thought, "here we go again, another rant against the evils of colonialism; now all we need is masadi and a sandwich and we should be able to have a picinic"

... but as i read on, i found out that this was even worse than that - this man is in total denial of the fact that all men were not not born equal and when people with similar genetic traits band together to form a society, the society is exceptional ........ for example, who can deny that:

- blacks are exceptional basketball and football players... i know, i know, poor jimmy the greek was fired for suggesting it, but it is the truth

- jews are exceptionlly pushy and loud ..... i can pick out a jewish family at kennedy airport by the decibel level and the whiny tone of the princess harassing her poor hen-pecked husband ......

- punjabis are exceptionally boorish (and loud) .... as soon as they walk into a gathering the noise level goes up and the level of conversation plunges into the gutter ....

- pathans are ... well, pathans

......... and i could go on .... i am sure you will say this is sterotyping, but i say, "if the sterotype fits, wear it!" ........... and stop whining

Re: # 22

nb,

.... you are right, but these kids just don't get it ...... my older one who, thank god, doesn't look too indian was so thrilled when she got her first traffic ticket that she pinned put it up on the fridge alongside the younger one's grades ... why?.. because the officer had checked off the 'white' box in the race category! ..... unfortuntely, the younger one is exceptionally disadvantaged ...... damn grandpa gopinath!

Elementary, hamidm sahib. Rohit is telling us that you and I are bad people.

Re: # 21

nb,

exceptionalism in not limited to India. what is interesting is how the construction of exceptionalism contributes to a post colonial/developing nation's self narrative. the "american dream" is one example of exceptionalism that can be said to be authentic to some individuals and communities given an advantageous context of supportive institutional policies, and a punishing myth that is used to denigrate communities who fail to achieve it because they lack those structural advantages.