Voice from Waziristan

Re:bulleya
"......there is a simple solution, stop bombing waziristan.....stay out of us wars..."

Amazing strategery!! Pakistan's elites have sold their souls to the US, not today but many decades back. Do you think they have the testicular fortitude to stand up to the US and declare that they opt out of the war on terror? Look at the way the Indian polity is debating the civilian nuclear deal and in fact scuttling it to avoid diluting any sovereignity. If this was Pakistan, everyone would bend over backwards to sign on the dotted line as long as the US gave some crumbs.

After all this time, if Pakistan decides to thumb its nose at the US, you know what will happen. The US will lash out in the most vicious manner. There is nothing more infuriating or humiliating than to see a slave stand up to its master. Its not for nothing that Powell threatened Musharraf with "bombing back to the stone age".

Basically the Pak elite is caught between a rock and a hard place - F16 bombs vs suicide bombs. It remains to be seen which set of bombs will prevail.

Romair,

(stay out of us wars)

Easier said than done. Do you think USA will allow Pak to stay away from the WOT?

(when in afghan war 1, pakistan supported, uncoditionally, the usa.......)

What you have chosen to omit is the fact that Pakistan did so in its own (perceived) self-interest- Billions of dollars in civil and military aid, expansionist ambitions in J&K and Afghanistan

Regards

....the only way talibanisation can occur in Pakistan is if the govt. keeps bombing waziristan.....and that too, at the encouragement of usa.....

....waziristanis have never been anti-pakistan.....they have never carried out violence against pakistan......why are they, all of sudden, ready to join taliban and al-qaeeda, in attacking pakistan.....in fact, why are taliban and al-qaeeda, themselves, attacking pakistan, when they have never done so before.....

......the answer is simple....taliban, waziristanis and al-qaeeda consider usa their enemy.....so they are in a state of war against the usa......it is a either you are with us or against us theory......so they will bomb anyone who assists the usa.......the easiest target is pakistan......

.....this is a very dangerous cycle.....pakistan will bomb waziristan, killing people.......somebody from there, will use taliban and al-qaeeda, as a vehicle, to attack pakistan and will carry out an explosion in pindi or islamabad....then pakistan will bomb again, under the premise that it needs to take out terrorism, forcefully......again someone will bomb pindi and islamabad.......eventually it will turn into a daily affair....

there will, of course, by people on both sides, encouraging both sides to militarily solve the problem....i.e. people pushing the pakistan govt. (usa govt., daily times, hamidm mian types) on one side, and al-qaeeda and taliban supporters on the other.....musharraf, needing usa support, will continue to bomb, regardless of consequence....his generals, to keep him happy, will continue complying.....any officer who does not obey is court-martialed and jailed (i know of some)......bb types will require us support to get elected, and will support attacks, in a round about manner......

pakistan, through the stupidity of a few heavily pro-usa elite, is in the first stages of becoming iraq......

......there is a simple solution, stop bombing waziristan.....stay out of us wars......this will make the local population pro-pakistan, again......after that, the popularity of talibn and al-qaeeda will automatically fall in those areas......taliban and al-qaeeda have no historical social base in pakistan.....

this whole problem started, when in afghan war 1, pakistan supported, uncoditionally, the usa.......

....it has been proven that there is absolutely no way to fight civilians through the military......it is being proven in iraq.......if the usa with a massive military cannot defeat iraqis, what chance does any other country have, with much tinier mlitaries.......

this is a social problem, not a military problem.......

#32 Posted by rf786 on October 30, 2007 2:49:10 am

the mullah dude thought the move to the new job would weaken the jihad...the support for jihad didn't actually diminish.

Re: # 28

Arjun Jee,

Can u please clarify this confuision:

"Musharraf, Aziz and Yusuf had run the proxy war in Kashmir in the early 1990s, and Aziz, a Kashmiri by birth, had been on the ground handling Musharraf's disastrous Kargil operation in 1999,"

After that u say:

"Aziz was so close to Pakistan's sponsored jihadi organisations that when Musharraf had tried to promote him to commander of 10 Corps (Rawalpindi) in October 1999 as a precursor to making him army chief, a job that would have brought him back to the capital, Jamaat-e-Islami and Maulana Fazlur Rahman of the Jamiat Ulema Islam protested, warning it would weaken the ihad in Kashmir"

Weaken the Jihad? These two statements self-contradictory? Maybe u can clarify.

Thanks

Atif: Yaraji, even a simpleton like me understands that it is the government itself, which is responsible. They have allowed them to grow to show the world that there is problem in these areas. Sometime, to show the world they attack them and then go about shouting about it. They do not even hesitate to sacrifice their own poor soldiers in the process. Tell me, if ISI is not helping them, then how come they have all the latest weapons except tanks and armored vehicles. Now, they have even acquired some armored vehicles also after kidnapping army convoy and are roaming around in it. Almost every single Taliban commander, however small and insignificant he may be, possesses four wheelers and roams around with the escort of bodyguards. Part of the money that is coming to combat terrorism is actually used to help them.
////////////////////////////

This is the best thing that can happen to any nation. Get money from the US for killing their own, and you do not want to finish all, so keep having the jihadis coming.

Most of the people of pakistan, other than the land lords who lived in that area, moved to pakistan in the hope of getting the assets left behind by the hindus. " read the article on Bhagat sing and it is occupied by a pakistani".

Pakistan has a history of people not having to work for a living and they construct ingenious ways to make easy money. The army has found the best of money making venture in teh jihadis. This is after cornering teh corn flakes and cement business, construction, transport and the public sector.

#29 Posted by mohar11 on October 29, 2007 1:29:44 pm

yup..if the koolaid he drank had one part per million of alchohol, he'd be dead by now...

Re: # 28

Now wait for the wagah-candle-holder-in-chief Mr bleeding heart Dost-Mitter to come out and make a speech on how india has to help when the neighbor house is on fire... even though the neighbor himself set his own house on fire... :)

Pakis are whacking each other...good...

roses are red, violets are blue
the jihadis you created, are now killing you..

Musharraf ran proxy war in Kashmir in 1990s: Book

Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf [Images], Commander of 4 Corps (Lahore [Images]) Lt Gen Mohammed Aziz and Chief of General Staff Gen Mohammed Yusuf had run a proxy war in Jammu and Kashmir [Images] in the early 1990s, a new book has claimed.

"Musharraf and Aziz had trained together as commandos in the 1960s and, together with Yusuf, had played critical roles in the training of the Afghan Mujahideen in the 1980s under the tutelage of General Hamid Gul," the book Deception: Pakistan, the United States and the Global Nuclear Weapons Conspiracy stated.

"Musharraf, Aziz and Yusuf had run the proxy war in Kashmir in the early 1990s, and Aziz, a Kashmiri by birth, had been on the ground handling Musharraf's disastrous Kargil operation in 1999," the book by investigative journalists Adrian Levy and Catherin Scott-Clark said.

The authors are internationally renowned and award winning investigative journalists who worked as staff writers and foreign correspondents for the Sunday Times before joining the Guardian.

Aziz was so close to Pakistan's sponsored jihadi organisations that when Musharraf had tried to promote him to commander of 10 Corps (Rawalpindi) in October 1999 as a precursor to making him army chief, a job that would have brought him back to the capital, Jamaat-e-Islami and Maulana Fazlur Rahman of the Jamiat Ulema Islam protested, warning it would weaken the ihad in Kashmir.

Musharraf subsequently backed down, the authors said.

Aziz held great influence over Pakistan's president. He persuaded Musharraf against clamping down on the Taliban and Osama bin Laden as a result of the then US president Bill Clinton's [Images] visit to Islamabad in 2000 and he also vetoed US demands for action against Pakistan-based activities of outfits such as the Harkat-ul-Mujahideen and Lashkar-e-Tayiba.

Aziz was promoted to chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, a position that until then Musharraf had retained for himself.

Yusuf was promoted to vice chief of army staff, the second most important job in the Pakistan army.

Thanks to youtube, we can now watch allah's army duking it out with the jihadis everynight over beer and popcorn.

"Me: What the tribal elders are doing about it?

Atif: What can they do; traditionally they were respected and obeyed but in new situation they are totally helpless."

This will prove to be a good thing in the long run for the people of that region. The erosion of tribalism in the favour of ideology is a logical step in the evolution of a society.

However, this is a very shitty thing for the rest of Pakistan, since they are hellbent on a confrontation with the US. Instead of bombing these poor people, we should let them go their own way and do their own thing.

seriously..I saw a hamid mir piece on youtube...the paki army is using artillery and helicopter gunships to kill allah's chosen muslims, the pakis..

that would be like india using artillery and heli-gunships in kulu-manali..any government that did that would be out on it's rear..

Klifton Khala Subha Subha to aap kelye haiN, hamarey liye do peher ka vaqt tha!

I do understand the diff between RSS and Taliban now!

I did see that expose that you are talking about it was on in August. What can i say the younger generation super gorafied Pakistani now cant even pronounce Urdu properly, lekin afsoos ki baat yeh haiN ke vo mujh se zyaada kam nahii haiN umer meiN!

Its amazing how lack of exposure and trying degrade ones mother tongue to such dismal levels of uselessness!

Now can you imagine his kids!!!

ally jan subha subha itni saleeq urdu ...

vaisay
you are right all violent fascist bigoted groups work the same way intellectually but the RSS/VHP are broad in their selectively (all hindus and even the muslims who support them). Also besides sporadically murdering muslims they dont have much interest in interfering in other peoples lives. They ceratinly are not one tenth as violent as the taliban. All the above make them fundamentally a much more reasonable group.

i just saw the BBC karachi expose by that guy from glascow on youtube (the one all about karachi models and so on) ...have you seen it?

Re: # 21 Kaal

they are different and operate at whole differnt levels...

Ally, it doesn't help calling them 'worse'. They are different, and if anyone wants to talk to them, it is important to know the difference.

For instance, it is easier for Hindus (not for you, nor for communists) to talk to RSS/VHP folks than it would be for you to engage in discussions people behind this movement.

It just is wise to know that difference.