The Price of Loving Karl Marx

A serious effort to brought to light the pangs of loving a genius, remind me Ismail Merchant’s Surviving Picasso. But I wonder if this is the right forum Comments like

"Men who have their wives pay the bills – they become great communists!"

And

"Marx was a very dishonest man who advocated violence. The woman he made pregnant was his maid, was it an affair , or took advantage of her , may be even raped her, he was old enough to be her father."

are stupid. We need an adult mind to understand the crisis of a genius's life

So far the most sensible comment, you did justice to the article and the person in question

masadi: The fact that musharraf is "begging for understanding" after of the Americans after declaring emergency of americans means that he is their puppet? To anyone with anyone who is half-way intelligent, this would mean something quite different from what you have been claiming on chowk - that Musharraf is a mere puppet.

The fact is that, regardless of what you (and no doubt many others in Pakistan) think, the US is not omnipotent. One Pakistani leader after another ignored US pressure when it came to building the bomb e.g. And dont even think of the fact that the US is the only major nation that at least spoke out publicly against the Emergency - where is China? Where is the "muslim ummah"?

And yes, I red flagged your post because it is littered with abusive words - so your claim "it contains absolutely nothing that deserves a red flag" is yet another blatant lie from you.

If Musharraf "loved fools like me" , he wouldn't take time out during his speech to address the Americans and beg them for their understanding, now would he? He has taken this decision inspite of the Americans and will be slaughtered by them shortly, or the Pak military will get rid of him. I see you have red flagged by post #65 even though it contains absolutely nothing that deserves a red flag, but the cry baby that you are you cannot tolerate those that expose your peonship to the West...

Masadi: I will ignore your abuses towards me. All you can harp about even on this day is the "US elite". Musharraf loves fools like you.

Mr madani, stay happy, live long and prosper, and do not worry about the peons of the West like tahmed who will feign and fake concern for the people of Pakistan while ensuring our slavery to the West. Check all of his posts before the US turned against the dictator and you will not note any of the venom regarding Musharraf that now flows from his mouth. He is merely repeating official US propaganda and double talk- his masters the US elite have always supported tyrants and dictators in our land and when those tyrants have outgrown their usefulness and ignorantly think themselves independant the US elite turn against them and so do their peons. These peons of the West like tahmed are a dime a dozen in our country, like cockroaches they aim to strike in the dark, once the people of Pakistan clean their house they will get rid of them...don't you worry.

#63 mr. madani: I am not reading between the lines. I am reading what you have written below and in the past in support of Musharraf. Once again, good night. Your place is with Pakistani people, not with the military general.

Re: # 60 It does not matter as Mr. Mao said power flows from barrels of gun. You may not like and I also do not like but you will have to endure general. You are distorting my saying. bye. No point when some body reads in between lines and like rags pakkad goes on same path.

Re: # 58 It is not "MYTHYCAL ELITES'. They are real. General is just big officer but subordinate to BushBadshah, a regional satrap like mmsing and soniya same position in India. Do not blame general, do not blame spoon but blame hand. He is doing as told as all rulers did for last 60 years. Please do not misunderstand, I need to make notes. bye good night.

#59 Have a good night Mr. Madani. Your place is with ordinary Pakistanis in their just struggle for their basic rights and for the rule of law, not with General Musharraf and his illegal rule of Pakistan. Please remember that.

Mr Madani: The Supreme Court has declared this emergency illegal. So, laugh while you can - nothing Musharraf does can take away the stamp of ILLEGAL tht the Supreme Court of Pakistan has put on it.

Musharraf can fire the Supreme Cout judges - but he cannot fire the support the Supreme Court enjoys in the hearts of all true Pakistanis. And in their hearts, all true Pakistanis know that this emergency is ILLEGAL!

Re: # 56 Mr. T you are making speculative and wrong conclusions from my sad laughing rection. I could have explained better but need to leave as college students will coming for 90 minutes tution in maths in morning and they need to be given notes ( I have not understood why they want notes all is given in text books, just students want fast education as fast food as at "lakhani" fast food Kentuky fried chiken. I will read your response later in morning. Have good night.

#57 mr. madani: "I honestly know he is problem "

i am sorry, but your post is merely an effort to take the blame for the emergency from musharraf and put it on these mythical "elites" and say "You can not cure now but endure only.".

WHo do you think you are fooling, Mr. Madani? Pakistanis will inshallah cure this problem of general musharraf's illegal rule. You can laugh till your stomach hurts in the meantime as long as they unfortunately do have to endure his illegal rule.

Re: # 55 I honestly know he is problem but he is nobody it is just "HIS MASTERS VOICE'. Its like malignant cancer tumor at advanced stage nothing can be done honestly.You can not cure now but endure only. He is doubled face like mythycal "janus" , always one step forward and two step backwards. Some times I feel sad all Pakistani leadership resides in foreign UK , Dubai , Saudi arabia and american viceroy mr. general. It is really sad to live life in this century as directed by western elites ( kindly please read mr. Masadi's book with out any predisposion , you can learn lot. It book worth reading ) as new American Badshah Bush badshah like Mughal ruling india. Elites has brainwashed so much that still people feel mr J.Christ or last messenger (PBUH) was white, both were dark as coal or may be brown as sadat looking not white. Things are bad but if almighty allah is kind to us it can change also.

mr. madani: so your stomach is hurting with laughter at this time when general musharraf has come out openly against the people of Pakistan? That answers my question. Thank you.

Re: # 50 Mr. Masadi thanks for your thoughtful comments. Your last 4 sentences about "mid night call" made me really laugh my stomach almost hurt, best funny comment. Thanks, wish have good day.

mr. madani: i know you are there. is it really this hard to answer a simple question: Do you still think Musharraf is part of the solution rather than problem number 1 for Pakistan?

#51 masadi: dont talk of morals and self-respect, you shameless liar, abuser and whiner.

and dont tell madani not to respond to a straight question.

In #50 read "because he doesn't want to prove the US further by killing its messenger"

as "because he doesn't want to provoke the US further by killing or harming its messenger

Madani sahib no need to answer tahmed, when someone has his level of morals and self respect , you should not concern yourself with them...

Madani writes "But hopefully after usa election president hillary clinton will stop wars and pakistan will be saved from unintended advances in pakistan and oppressing people."


Madani sahib, Clinton wont be elected, and if she were to advocate a change in US foreign policy regarding wars, the elite will get rid of even her front runner status. Regarding the US putting up two faces, of course it does but in this case you have to look at the history of the cycle of the current crisis in Pakistan, all Pakistan Army (US) manufactured, and their purpose was regime change in Pakistan for external ulterior motive, so Musharraf is not in the plans of the US elite, and it wont be smooth sailing for him. He can either settle as a non uniformed (no power) peon or the US will take him out. BB was allowed to go because he doesn't want to prove the US further by killing its messenger, either way I think, his fate is sealed, but we still have the past midnight call from Rice that might bring him back to his senses....

madani: i am waiting for your honest answer - do you still think Musharraf is blameless?

Aitazaz Ahsan has been arrested by the police. The Chief Justice has been dismissed. I assume these were dangerous people - at least in the eyes of Musharraf.

masadi: and i see you were whining below about my not getting banned for calling you what you have been calling me without provocation. that is all that can be expected from a donkey-eared fathered by a donkey peon!!

masadi: dont confuse me with your father, the donkey peon of the east, west, north and south.

madani: are you saying that Musharraf, who you have been supporting on chowk, is not to blame for this emergency?

Re: # 40 It may not be true. USA may be showing one face for peoples consumption, she may have told general to do that. It was about happen American army chief had been to I-Bad and they may have made plan. This way general will have freedom of action to finish antiamerican people who are opposed to war on terror. USA has moved it assets *(BB) to Dubai few days back as safe keeping and keep power dry and they will bring her back at proper time just like Shah of Iran and General is their general contractor on site doing dirty job. Pakistan manpower and logistics and supply line to A.Stan providing gas for military operations. USA will like to keep its only supply line safe and fuel food and petrol moving at any cost. For them its just roadway from karachi to A.Stan. Pakistani people have to work as mule , mule is never asked but whipped and forced to carry imperial burden of being peon , coolie and is fed some food so it does not die. It appears usa lieing about democracy is farce and tamasha but she knows peopns of west will still give explain why democracy is not good. Can CJ will be put in jail ? That america will decide through it pawn. Last hope is China may suggest general to go for election. China does not want usa to have problems as then she can not export stuff to usa. So we are doomed till heavely power Allah mighty decides to change situation. Great victory for peons and coolies of westen elite and great defeat for pakistani awam. QAMA had said once succesive rulers will be corroupt and impotent, he was right. But hopefully after usa election president hillary clinton will stop wars and pakistan will be saved from unintended advances in pakistan and oppressing people.

the ref to "peon of the West" in #43 refers to tahmed.

As is usual, the peon of the West will totally ignore the US part in all of this, if "convenience" is sought fighting the "militants" then that is the hallmark trait of the US elite who have used that excuse for all barbarism in the book.

This time however, the US didn't want emergency or martial law because their purpose was to weaken their peon out of favor, i.e. Musharraf, who fearing that is clutching at straws in order to keep power. But dumb as he is, he does not realize that he cannot do so in Pakistan without US blessings, so the military which has US blessings has nothing to do with this state of emergency, it is Musharraf and his rats all of whom feared a loss of status because Musharraf has fallen out of favor with the US elite.

So like I have been saying in my posts if he does not give up the uniform, and accept the US deal of the BB in the lead and he a minor peon with a new military chief firmly in charge, a hellfire aimed for his a$$ has already been prepared by them: Mark my words, the new military cheif will get rid of him or he will be taken out by the US if he goes the emergency or martial law way....

I think this is a clear example of the mullah-military nexus in action:

Musharraf is being forced into a corner by mainstream politicians and the Supreme Court, faces removal from both his positions (chief of armed forces, president).

Mullah Fazlullah gets active in Swat.

Musharraf gets convenient excuse to put the Supreme Court and political parties out of commission.

Declares emergency.

Mullah-military nexus strikes again!!

Except...I doubt if this is the end of the story...

Ok now it confirmed Emergency has been imposed in Pakistan



http://www.geo.tv/geonews/details.asp?id=13299&param=1

Emergency has been declared in Pakistan according to media reports, all private media channels have been taken off air. The military has taken over the courts and is deployed all across Karachi and Islamabad. Musharraf has gone against US wishes and preempted their marital law, he will now be deposed by the new army chief if not taken out by a US missile...

Can some one confirm the imposition of emergency in pakistan.....!!

Bbc's web site and blogs are flooded with this news...!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/11/071103_pak_emergen cy.shtml

http://www.pkpolitics.com/

masadi,

So it's only when they grow up that they become despicable creatures ... any reference to any chowk interactor(s) here? :)

#36, the cutest animals on the planet by a long shot, I have seen them

#31 Posted by tahmed32,

Baby Donkeys? Never seen one ... have you? Must be cute :)

masadi,

24 hours means that whenever these morons wake up. It doesn't mean 24 hours on the clock. Got it now?

tahmed writes "Masadi: I see in #29 you painstakingly corrected the grammar of your post in #27.."

No grammar correction, I added some details, and corrected one word that was a typo, but most of all I made that post in order to twice repeat what I likened you to, because to be quite frank with you, it is music to my ears, if I can compose it into a tune I'd sing it to myself all day long...

tahmed writes "Life's too short to be spent with baby donkeys."

Now if Chowk staff banned me for a lot longer than 24 hours, almost two whole days, if my calculation is correct for merely likening tahmed to a "retired donkey", i.e. an analogy or parable, then when tahmed DIRECTLY calls me a "baby donkey" or says that my papa was a donkey should the chowk staff not ban him for two days as well? Of course they should,at the very least, but they wont, why because they banned me JUST because of my ideas, and my ideas alone. In fact not only will they not ban him, they might pick another excuse from these posts to ban me yet once again, will that be a surprise? of course not, it is expected of them, and you all will know why: the ideas and nothing else...

#28 tahmed writes "You are lying again"

Not at all, not even a chance, your posts have revealed whom you truly worship and whose barbarism you are always justifying, and against whom you cannot utter one word, and whose praises you come up with all the time totally unrelated to the posts or the discussion. If you are changing now or want to hide those sentiments of yours that is in large part to my exposing you here for all to see. This person (tahmed) immorally supported the Iraq war and still does not say going to war in Iraq was barbarism that was not justified, he supported the British colonization of India and was wailing and crying (indirectly) as to why the Dutch colonized Indonesia and not the British, he claims all good that exists in our lands is due to the "anglo saxon ethos" the remnants of Brit colonization and all evil that exists in our lands is due to our own shortcoming where we did not follow his 'gods'- if that is not worship of the white man, what is? Know your enemy and they don't come any purer in form than peons like tahmed, that sell us out and legitimize the butchering of your brothers and sisters, sons and daughters while claiming to be full of (fake) concern for your fate just like the wolf in sheep's clothing, the white man when he came here or went all over the globe rampaging and killing the colored folk...

Anyway: Masadi the whining loser. Last post to you. Life's too short to be spent with baby donkeys.

Masadi: I see in #29 you painstakingly corrected the grammar of your post in #27. In #28, I corrected the substance of your post in #28.

See - you cant even write two sentences without having to correct them!! No wonder you are such a loser.

in #27 read "Likening you (tahmed) to a "retired donkey" was no abuse it was a statement of fact that wise people understood but retards too it to be abuse"

as "Likening you (tahmed)to a "retired donkey" who sings the songs of his master even though he has been let free was no abuse it was a statement of fact that wise people understood but retards thought it to be abuse

#27 Masadi: "the worship of the white man "

You are lying again. As for calling me a donkey - No, I am not your papa!!

tahmed writes "You are a constant liar. You got banned not because of what you flatter yourself by calling your "ideas" but because of your abusive language. "

Nonsense, those (like yourself) who abandon all morality for the worship of the white man wouldn't know true from false if it hit you in the face. Likening you to a "retired donkey" was no abuse it was a statement of fact that wise people understood but retards too it to be abuse...my posts are not directed towards retards

Tolkinin #24 Yes I would. In fact, I would say that Roman Catholicism is Made in Europe, given that Jesus Christ never claimed to be the son of God, never talked of the original sin, never talked of a Pope, never talked of celibacy of the priests, never talked of virgin nuns, was not born on Christmas Day, did not call for egg hunts on Easter, the list goes on.

Some of these are carryovers from Europe's pagan past (e.g. Christmas) or Roman past (e.g. vespal virgins of pagan Rome), others (e.g. Church, original sin) are creations that came centuries later.

Similarly, the Christian Scientists, Mormons are Made in the USA.

Masadi #22 You say that chowk staff banned you for the sake of punishing me for my ideas

You are a constant liar. You got banned not because of what you flatter yourself by calling your "ideas" but because of your abusive language.

Re: # 8
#8 Posted by tahmed32 on November 1, 2007 5:17:34 pm
apofomy #7: "Even the prophet was not allowed to pray for the forgiveness of his parents Marx to door kee baat hay."

This is religion as 'Made in Pakistan.' Please dont call this religion Islam. Thank you.
..............................................
May be Apofomy is wrong ,There 100 different sects with you very 'nice" bohra that you know.There are some sects having totally opposing views .Just as in Hindus Christians Jews .Are you wiling to forego all the churches in USA as to outsider it is christians as' made in USA'

#22 Posted by masadi,

Masadi, my advice to you in this respect is to start publishing (or even copy/pasting) articles supporting gays and lesbians, and you will be honoured instead of being banned time & again.

Chowk-admin are gay/lesbian lifestyle campaigners. I don't think any doubt remains about that.

The miserable Chowk staff had said they were banning me for 24 hours but ended up extending it to 48 hours just for the sake of punishing me for my ideas. Regime change is what is needed at Chowk, it needs to be a people's site not a site that promotes the perversions of the US elite...

dsna writes "Dr. Sohail has put sociological aspect of the life of a great philosopher under spotlight..."

Sohail knows nothing about sociology, he's a shrink, a psycho- psychologist. His purpose in writing this article was to give a veiled, mullahesque, ad hominem attack on Marx. He does not care that because of his work, people understood, possibly for the first time the importance of the historical method in understanding social structure, thereby shattering the myth of a benign social system that is classless and affects all equally...

Nov 1, 2007

The miserable Chowk staff had banned me yet once again using a most nonsense excuse, a quite benign post in which I had likened tahmed (the peon of the West) to a retired donkey who keeps singing the tune of its masters even though it has been let free- note the likened, i.e. a likeness or an analogy or a parable. These sikkos used that excuse to ban me just because I expose the barbarism of the US elite, and speak for the masses who are a victim to their policies, just because of that reason they ban me and they allow dimwits like Sohail to reproduce banal article after article with veiled ad hominems against people who have similarly stood up for humanity as the immoral ignoramus defends the US system of oppression.

Look Sohail, one million of you and one of Marx and even then his contribution to human thought an betterment would be greater....than a million of your lifetimes.....do your own math

Dr. Sohail has put sociological aspect of the life of a great philosopher under spotlight. It would have been better if the socio-economic conditions prevalent at that time were also somehow highlighted and connected to this. It was a time of great depression and jobs were even difficult to get for professional, organized and people leading normal life. It was extremely improbable that a person, who was ahead of his times, could lead a normal life under those conditions. Above all Marx was shaking the very foundation of the capitalist society with his “theory of surplus value” and could not have expected anything better. People like Jenny Von Westphalen are very difficult to get these days. She was a woman of a very strong character and her love for Marx was without any doubt. Marx, in spite of all his creativity, was after all only a human being, with all his faults and should be judged as such.

Is Marxism dead?

Harpo, Chico and Groucho Marx will live on...

Karl was many things but entertaining he was not.


Ras

#15 So that is what they mean by "Behind every successful man is a woman"?

Either Marx was a loser, or Marxists are losers. Socialism Murdabad.

Dr. Sohail, I read your piece side-by-side with Dr. Gill’s write-up on the love life of Einstein and I can not help but gather the following.

Men who use-and-discard their women like dish rags – they become great scientists!

Men who have their wives pay the bills – they become great communists!

Nice writing!
wife of every ambitious man is lonely and has hard time.
I have sympathy for Jenny.

Nice to read.
Wife of every ambitios man is loney and has hard time.
I have sympathy for Jenny!

Sohail Sahib, this was a nice read. Often, lost in the popularity of such personalities are their near and dear. Thanks for letting us know about the woman who made Marx possible.

Re: # 1
Dear GT...I did not write this article for political correctness. I have been studying creative personalities...poets, philosophers, reformers and revolutionaries, whether men or women and I find that they have non-traditional lifestyles and their traditional spouses have to pay the sacrifice in the name of love. If you want examples of women you can read the biographies of Anais Nin and Virginia Woolf...their husbands had to pay the price like the wife of Marx. Anais Nin had an affair with novelist Henry Miller and Virginia Woolf had a lesbian affair.
Marx's marriage with his wife is presented as ideal by many Marxists...the reality is far from it. For me these struggles do not take away from the greatness of Marx or Virginia Woolf or other creative personalities. Rafi Aamer had presented the romantic life of Allama Iqbal on chowk with similar struggles. That does not take away that Iqbal was a wonderful philosopher and poet but a troubled husband.
sincerely sohail

Hey, you think Jenny had it tough?

We had Nehru and his coterie loving Marx and it got one billion Indians Hell on earth.

Screw Jenny!

In fact, screw Karl Marx!

While we are at it, screw Communists the world over.

Re: # If correct mr KM died in England. His last years of life spent spent in London. Our politicians especially MQM Chief AH, PPP chief BB and ML chief NS were also exiled to London. This reaLLY STARNGE BUT VERY SIMILAR TO SUFFERING BY mR. mARX. It is strange nature of English people they give asulum to all politicals till now. Bengali exiled, PM of our also died in london , E.Mirza also died in londo (?). London and Pakistan more related at each other. When problem in India all leaders fly to London. English elites by being kind to Indopaki politicians finally control des.
mR. mARK SAID APTLY, THIESE things happen as tragedy and then they are repeated as farce. I do not think mr. Marx had as many followers as each of above. His friend Engle was distressed when no "working class appeared for his funeral".

apofomy #7: "Even the prophet was not allowed to pray for the forgiveness of his parents Marx to door kee baat hay."

This is religion as Made in Pakistan. Please dont call this religion Islam. Thank you.

Re: # 2
Great man or not please do not make a prophet out of him brovili. And Allah nay ghair musalamanon kee maghfarat mangnay kee ijazat nahee dee hay. Even the prophet was not allowed to pray for the forgiveness of his parents Marx to door kee baat hay.

dont be ridiculous aslam. Marx may have been unfaithfull but there is no evidence to suggest he took advantage of anyone and boxes full of evidence suggesting Marx had utmost genuine respect for women made clear by his constant and genuine references to the NECCESSITY of EQUALITY btw genders.

Your reference to some random arab sheik and his maid would only be valid if arabs were not amongst the worlds most prominent political and social misogynists who absolutely do treat women and poor people like dogs.

he did not rape her she was 27 years old not some kid. and how is he dishonest if he advocated violence?

Marx was a very dishonest man who advocated violence. The woman he made pregnant was his maid, was it an affair , or took advantage of her , may be even raped her, he was old enough to be her father.

The question is when a sheikh al-araby makes his Filipino or sri lankan maid pregnant, human rights groups and neo Marxists are up in arms.why is there such double standards.

Another great poet and revolutionary was Percy Shelley, he was assasinated at ayoung age his wife also suffered much but still loved him dearly she called him cor cordium; heart of hearts

Jenny was a great woman and like many great woman gave up much for love and duty, see nargis. Engels was a good friend he always helped Marx.

Karl Marx was a great man as was bhagat singh, they lived and died for others allah inko maghfarat ata kare, marhoom main kai khoobiyan theen

Dear Sohail,

You write as if Jenny had to pay a price for something she did not approve. Both may have paid a price for something that both approved (except for Marx's other relationship perhaps). We do not know. What you imply may indeed be true. However, there is no evidence of this being the case in your essay. This kind of writings have become fashionable nowadays because of the over-dose of feminism. I am saddened to see you being swept up in this wave of political correctness.

Marx and Jenny loved each other. (Jenny's father knew Marx from a young age and taught him about liberal writers like Saint Simon). Here is what Marx's daughter writes about the Moor (her father) as Jenny lay dying and he was ill:

"Our dear mother lay in the big front room and the Moor lay in the little room next to it ... Never shall I forget the morning he felt himself strong enough to go into Mother's room. When they were together they were young again - she a young girl and he a loving youth, both on life's threshold, not an old disease-ridden man and an old dying woman parting from each other for life."


Many a mundane middle-class household would give up their "little pink boxes" for such love between husband and wife.