Pervez Musharraf Declares Emergency in Pakistan

The imposition of emergency has once again unveiled the intention of our beloved mr president that he wants to retain power at any cost. in every other country constitution is considered as a sacred document but our general has just kicked it as a football. It has been done to eliminate the top judicial officers who he considered to be a road block on his way to becoming president of this nation for the next five years. In this 21st century we can find such political mess only in Myanmar whose military is following the practice of Musharaff regime. The thumb rule is SILENCE THE DESENTING VOICE WITH FULL FORCE!

Re: # 181

You say:

"What Musharraf did was totally right under the present circumstances."

Should it not be corrected to read:

"What Musharraf did was totally right under the circumstances he himself was responsible for presenting to the nation."

I suggest people who have never done anything in their lives except running third rate grocery stores should desist from frothing about economy and currency management.

Michael Savage called mushy the gandhi of pureland and then went on to imply that purelanders are knuckle dragging savages who aren't ready for democracy. How badly do you have to screw up to get the kiss of death from der weiner nazi?

why are the cops wearing masks?

#180 Posted by SR on November 5, 2007 12:02:18 pm


These so-called financial wizards, these nincumpoop professionals have kept the Pak rupee "pegged" to the USD


Hmm..has pureland's forex gone up by that amount? It was 13 billion a few years ago and it's 16 billion now. Wouldn't the forex reserves go up more if they were buying $$ to keep the rupee pegged?

Re: # 183

What a coincidence! Three Pavezes have come together to form a 'Trio of Power' in Pakistan.

Incidentally,'Parvez' is the name of an anti-prophet ruler of Iran who is considered to be guilty of blasphemy like Salman Rushdi by the Mullah.

I had a peon by this name. One day when I called him by this name he retorted, "Sir, don't call me by this bloody name as I have changed my name to 'Meboob'". I asked him why he did so. He said,"The Imam of our mosque told me that 'Parvez' was the name of an enemy of the Prophet and as such to be called by this name is sheer blasphemy".

What our Chowky Ulema say in this respect?

Reference #182

Invoking hell will not bring peace, democracy and prosperity to Pakistan. If it does, then perhaps namaaz 10 times a day in stead of 5 will be doubly effective. And Allah will fulfill your duas at twice the rate.

#181 Allah has a special place in hell reserved for this criminal. And for his chamchas.

Reading the full text of Musharraf's address to the nation, one cannot help but sympathise with the president and give full support to him from saving Pakistan from its self destruction.

He may have violated the constitution. So what? Where is the greater good under the present circumstances? The opposition fuels fire for their own selfish gains.

The justice department is not at fault if it declares Musharraf's election unconstitutional. We must raise our hats to the Supreme Court of Pakistan. At the same time the president is not at fault to declare the state of emergency to keep the crisis under control.

One must under the present circumstances look at the broader picture for the good of the country. What Musharraf cannot do as a president with the joint responsibility of the chief of the armed forces, that any of your past elected prime ministers or the ones vying for this job can do? Has he not brought Pakistan to prosperity? Has he not elevated Pakistan to a near superpower? What are the accomplishments of your previous prime ministers and presidents? Do they not pale in comparison to what Musharraf has done for Pakistan?

So what if he continues to be the president under the current deteriorating state of affairs? Can the opposition not wait for few more months/years to grab power? What plans do they have to bring peace and prosperity to Pakistan? I am sure Musharraf will listen to them.

People of Pakistan, wake up. And remember since 1947 when you got your independence, for how many years you had real democracy in Pakistan. You have to learn to be democratic to enjoy democracy.

Laton k bhoot baton se nahih maantay.

What Musharraf did was totally right under the present circumstances. Have patience. He does not care to give up his presidency. He does care for you and your nation.

Is there any body more qualified than him to lead you under these difficult times of unrest and terrorism? Bear with him. Look at your history since your independence, and learn something from it. Don't be a lakir k fakir in interpreting the the legality of his position. See what's good for your country.

President Musharraf, my warmest regards to you. And may Allah help you in preserving peace and sanity in Pakistan, even though you may intend to violate constitution, temporarily.

May Allah bless you!

Re: # 177 bulleya ["..."Pakistan's ... stock market has fallen nearly 5% as investors reacted ... not sure, if this is a sign... same website states ... up 1000% since 2001!..."]

I would not take one day's market action as a sign of anything. That's the reason I wrote "...If the KSE Index shoots up this week... etc., etc..."

A week is the minimum I would wait before trying to read the tea-leaves. I do not have an intuitive comfort with the KSE's punter mass psychology, but I gather that there is a powerful mafia in Karachi that fcuks with the retail investor's mind and manipulates money flows. If that is true then today's rumor emenating from Karachi (that Mushy boy has been toppled by Pervez Kiyani) might have been the handiwork of those who were short stock futures and who may intend to stage a buying rally after dropping about 10 or 15%... Who knows, what games are in play? Let's wait a week (or more) till the dust settles down and then see if the flow of capital is into or out of KSE. The KSE is as good a surrogate as any to tell us whether capital is staying in or flying out of the country.

A significant and sustained flight of capital will seal Mushy's fate.

Mushy depends on about (AT LEAST) twenty thousand individuals' active support to keep his grip on country's jugular. Those twenty thousand, not all of whom are thugs and brutes, come at a price. So unless the capitalists (mainly large corporate entities) want to keep him around (because he suits their business needs) they will not channel the flow of funds his way. It's the same old universal principle, FOLLOW the MONEY...

...

1,000% rise [in KSE] since 2001...

The best performing stock market in the world today is that of Zimbabwe... UP 12,000% in the last one year. But no one is fooled by that. The country's currency has fallen so substantially in exchange value that the stock market's spectacular rise becomes like a meaningless joke. But this is an extreme example that illustrates my point... i.e., The rise in the nominal price of an index (like the DOW) that is denominated in a currency that is falling (like the USD) has to be examined carefully to see how much of the gain (if any) is real and how much is just "inflation"... This very much applies to the KSE because of the rupee/dollar mutah union.

The geniuses at our central bank and finance ministry have been stubborn pigs in their utter idiocy that the US Dollar's value and global status can NEVER be lost. These so-called financial wizards, these nincumpoop professionals have kept the Pak rupee "pegged" to the USD, which means that as the USD lost against the Euro from EUR 1.00 = USD 0.88 all the way up to EUR 1.00 = USD 1.45, so did the Pak Rupee. The USD Index fell from 122 back then down to a tad above 75 today, which means that the Pak Rs also lost similar value against the basket of currencies that make up the USD Index.

These same geniuses refused to even admit the idea that gold should be a part of the reserve mix and doggedly stuck to the USD, while the international price of gold went from $255/oz to $800/oz...

I know this because in 2002 I had the great displeasure of talking face to face with this arrogant and idiotic small man who was, at the time the director of state bank's foreign currency department and held the views I've alluded to above. He later admonished his subordinate, who had introduced me to him, because he was displeased with what I had said to his face... that his exclusively US dollar inclined policy was fucked up and that the SBP should diversify to gold and Euros as well... But that is the kind of 20,000 officials who run Phuckistan, and whom Mushy needs to keep well fed.

I'm sorry for this ramble about the state bank official, but I am sorry for this poor country that such misguided and short-signted people who have unrealistic exaggerated opinions of themselves, run important affairs. In the example I've quoted these half-wit professionals have cost the nation billions and billions and yet no one has been fired. China places such officials before firing squads. But then we'll never come close to China's dirt.

What were we discussing, now????

...SR

Re: # 177
[that is when people in pakistan will rise up......one, because the whole concept of pakistan will be at stake......two, because while pakistanis have no problem in being beaten by other countries, they go nuts when beaten by india......kind of like the hockey matches.....as long as pakistan beats india, even if it finishes sixth or seventh, people are ok (as long as india is eighth)......
]


India has already kicked Paki's rear end in every department and still there is no urgency from their side.

Romair,

(when everyone around in one's neighborhood is poor, one doesn't protest much, regardless of what is happening in disant neighborhoods.....)

I wonder if that is not the reason why China embraced capitalism much more completely and almost a decade earlier than India. Becuase they had Japan and Korea to look upto in the backyard. While India had Pakistan and B'desh in its.

Regards

SR #: "If the KSE Index shoots up this week, or at least refuses to drop significantly, or, if it drops a bit and recovers sharply, that will be a vote of confidence from the capitalists and Mushy will go home free."

According to BBC:
"Pakistan's stock market slides 5%
Pakistan's main stock market has fallen nearly 5% as investors reacted to the emergency rule imposed by President Pervez Musharraf on Saturday....The fall was the biggest one-day decline on the Karachi Stock Exchange 100-share index for 16 months."

...i am not sure, if this is a sign.....since the same website states that the stock exchange has gone up 1000% since 2001!.....

...anyways, i think there are only two items which will make people realize that a comprehensive change in direction is needed in pakistan......one is Allah, and the other is India......

......people will revolt if something related to religion is involved.......the first tiny stages of this are visible in the soldiers not fighting against other fellow muslims.....

......the india factor is different.....up til now, pakistanis have had a living standard, generally, equal to (or perhaps higher) that their neighbors, with whom they culturally identify - afghanistan, india, bangladesh etc.....so people have not been too pushed on where the rest of the world is going......

........however, now india is pointed in one direction and pakistan in the other......even though, from whatever i have seen, both places are generally similar in terms of facilities and infrastructure........however, ten years from now, they won't be......india could be much further ahead....

that is when people in pakistan will rise up......one, because the whole concept of pakistan will be at stake......two, because while pakistanis have no problem in being beaten by other countries, they go nuts when beaten by india......kind of like the hockey matches.....as long as pakistan beats india, even if it finishes sixth or seventh, people are ok (as long as india is eighth)......

when everyone around in one's neighborhood is poor, one doesn't protest much, regardless of what is happening in disant neighborhoods.....however, when an immdeiate neighbor starts getting rich - specifically one with which their is direct competition - that is when people start getting upset and agitated and want change.....

For the past 24 hours the miserable Chowk staff had banned me yet once again, DELETED MY COMMENTARY ON THE EMERGENCY AND wont let me post anything regarding the emergency anymore. Like Musharraf has blacked out the tv channels, they have blacked out Masadi. Very unfortunate that these friends of dictators- the one who is going to meet his end soon via the Americans and their occupation force, are acting in the anti-people, immoral fashion.

The ban was because I had protested against Kulharee's call for widescale slaughter in Swat under the guise of "civilization", I had told him that anyone who is married to a 600lbs dumbo cannot talk of "civilization"- and for this they banned me and let Kulharee and his insults and call for slaughter go scot free..

SR....#168....great stuff! I have one for you too:

Mushy to Bibi: Excuse me Madam, but will you sleep with me for a million pounds?

Bibi: A million pounds?!! Why of course I would!

Mushy: Well, how about 2 pounds?

Bibi: 2 Pounds?!! What do you think I am?

Mushy: I think we've already established that but now we're just haggling about the price.

Re: # 169 Posted by SR on November 4, 2007 1:03:29 pm
[...that will be a vote of confidence from the capitalists and Mushy will go home free.]

And if the capital flow from Washington is reduced, then General Kiyani (ex-ISI chief) will take control of the country, and Mush will be sent packing to Boston, to be with his son Bilal. Just like Russia, an ex-spy will lead Pakistan. US is preparing for an attack on Iran, which is a bigger headache to the US than these Pakistanis.

Re: # 165
Talk about Deja Vu.His speech reminded me of Bush's speech on "Axis of Evil".It also reminded me of Will Farrel's parody of it.According to Musharraf's standards,if you even think he is bad then u must be evil.so much for his much flaunted freedom of expression in Pakistan!

I wonder if Musharraf has read "Animal Farm".This whole scenario is so like "Animal Farm Revisited".Worse perhaps.Compared to him the Pig Napoleon seems like a pretty decent chap.At least he didn't pretend to don the immaculate garb of sincerety all by himself; he used squealer for that.Our dearest Chief, on the other hand, is all in one!(i wonder if we will be forced to call him His Highness in the near future; he is not beyond that either.)

#168 funny! that shud describe many here who supported Mush until recently when they discovered the virtues of democracy

Re: # 169

I fully agree, I do not think people will come out-they will complain or post on chowk just like all of us but wont come out. Another important point is that for collective action you need to be organized which we are not. Politicall only PPP and MQ have the street power and they are with him.
The biggest "achivement" of our politics is the level of depoliticalization of all of us.

Watch two indicators that will point out to what lies immediately ahead.

1) Over the next week or two if at least a million people don’t take to the streets in wide spread protests, then Mushy will have won his gamble. (I personally think, no more than ten thousand will take to the streets, if that. Even a hundred thousand protesters, for that matter, will be no more than a spit in the wind.)

2) Also keep an eye on the stock market. If the KSE Index shoots up this week, or at least refuses to drop significantly, or, if it drops a bit and recovers sharply, that will be a vote of confidence from the capitalists and Mushy will go home free.

The chattering classes will continue to bitch and moan, the working classes will continue to toil away so they can bring home two square meals a day, trade and commerce will go on as usual and the army will continue to obey his orders, albeit reluctantly and ever more resentfully. Life will go on… very little will change.

There is wide spread disaffection and resentment in the military all the way from the second tear flag officers down to the junior most officers. (Opinions of the rank and file soldiers, of course, don't count.) Only the very upper echelon of the flag officers (three star generals and above) are solidly with him because their interests are wedded to his. But the set up of the armed forces being what it is, even second tear generals (most of whom are unhappy) cannot do much except to obey orders.

The only two ways the present set up can change is if (1) an assassin's bullet were to get to Mushy. Or if (2) massive street protests spontaneously errupt in Karachi and Lahore to the extent that riot police gets overwhelmed and he has to call in the military to quell the riots and the situation turns into a blood bath.

THAT will do it. If such a thing were to happen, only under those circumstances will the psychological environment change within the military to where Musharraf could be thrown out.

Unless Brutus, Cassius, Cato, Metullus and the whole gang don't act in unison they will not get Caesar.

...SR

Case of "Pinky vs. Mushy" hearing in the Court of Law.

"So, madam, when did you first realize that you had been raped," inquired the judge of the lady in green and white.

The teary eyed hooker replied, "when his cheque bounced."

...SR

{"Since musharraf has more guns than fazlullah, he wins. And Jinnah groans in his grave. And the devil dances with joy at the nightmare that has been made of every true Pakistanis dream (at least for now). "}

Hypo Chacha Al Butteesi,
Now you know how some other Pakis feel when the well-armed armed forces and "civilian" democracies of Pakistani power elite refuse to repatriate "stranded" Pakis in BD. Perhaps you are the devil, but you dance like Bush's Laura - a total Lame Ass.

#4,Hamindumdum2{" this is the wedding season and musharaf's timing was impeccable ...... "}


Hamidum Sahib,
You have a very good point about Mushy's timing in usurping total power in the midst of this wedding season. What was that English rite about the Lord having the right to the first night with the bride of a peasant? The Lord hath all the cherries.

Re: # 109 Posted by zeemax on November 3, 2007 10:29:09 pm

[I suggest you read musharraf's speech of last night to see who his beef is with.] Good suggestion, and it seems that Mush did not like the supreme court and the judiciary. He wants to remain supremo. He is Castro in the making, but this time this pottery is made in the usa.

zeemax #159: mullah fazlullah - or even the devil himself - would be fine IF he was qualified to run for elections and won fair and square. Since the voice of the people is the voice of God.

But you know as well as anyone that the only way fazlulah can come to power is the way musharraf has come to power - by force.

Since musharraf has more guns than fazlullah, he wins. And Jinnah groans in his grave. And the devil dances with joy at the nightmare that has been made of every true Pakistanis dream (at least for now).

Why the General was wearing "Bullet Proof" vest while addressing the nation on TV? Any clue?

Thank you General Musharaf for having the foresight to see what others can not, and the courage to implement it.

Get rid of those terrorists harbored and growing by the hour in Pakistan!

The sane world is behind you all the way.

Re: # 159

"Sovereignty of Allah can only work with rulers who really do believe Allah to be the ultimate giver or taker. Thieves do not count in this category."

Another method to impose fascism in the guise of religious superiority.

"And the category of such people as the former does exist. Mullah Umar is one. Fazlullah is another. So is Moulvi Faqir of Bajaur."

All pretenders of Islam of the pure Wahabi faith.

Musharraf claims this emergency has been imposed because of the murdering terrorists running around the country blowing themselves up. Here lies the problem, if the terrorists are the problem then why arrest civil right activists (excluding that AH Hameed Lul)?

Mush can do this one last favor by hanging those internet posting terrorists who are celebrating beheadings/murders of innocent civies and Pak soldiers.

#156 Posted by tahmed32,

you should also oppose potential theives claiming to speak for Allah.

Of-course. Sovereignty of Allah can only work with rulers who really do believe Allah to be the ultimate giver or taker. Thieves do not count in this category.

And the category of such people as the former does exist. Mullah Umar is one. Fazlullah is another. So is Moulvi Faqir of Bajaur.

Abdul-Rashid Ghazi was the best of them all, which is why he calmly chose martyrdom over submission to enemies of Allah.

All of those who are hungry for latest developments in Pakistan , can have look again.

visit

www.pkpolitics.com

and

www.pklatest.com

recorded streams of some live transmission from aaj.tv, geo.tv etc.... available.

A plan of action beyond a usual statement of condemnation

Friends of South Asia (www.friendsofsouthasia.org) is meeting on Sunday, November 4, at 6 pm at Newark City library for its Eid-Diwali program and to brainstorm on devising a strategy to deal with the present political crisis in Pakistan. Here is the first draft of a plan of action FOSA is working on and would like to discuss in the meeting.

C.


With the imposition of Emergency on November 3 General Pervez Musharraf has plunged Pakistan into terrible uncertainty. Whereas General Pervez Musharraf says he took the precarious step to save Pakistan, no one doubts the only thing Musharraf is interested in saving is his own grip on power.

We condemn Pervez Musharraf’s latest authoritarian decree and want Pakistanis and well-wishers of Pakistan to build pressure on him to take back the emergency measures. But having witnessed Pervez Musharraf’s propensity to sacrifice anything for his own personal gain we doubt if Musharraf under any cogent force would backtrack.

Considering Pakistanis desire for democracy, the recent struggle for the restoration of a Chief Justice illegally removed by the dictator, the ongoing pro-civil society debates in the erstwhile independent Pakistani media, and the pro-democracy sentiments within the Pakistan Army we wish to humbly suggest a shorter path towards restoring order in Pakistan.

In order to facilitate removal of Pervez Musharraf and to avoid further chaos in the country by keeping its institutions intact we urge Pakistanis in general and Pakistan’s political parties in particular to quickly form an interim government. The interim government and events related to its enactment should have the following features:

1. The interim government should be headed by an interim president who would hold free and fair general elections in the shortest span of time.
2. To ensure working of an independent judiciary all Supreme Court judges deposed on November 3 by Pervez Musharraf should be restored to their positions.
3. Pakistan Army should stop taking orders from Pervez Musharraf and current Vice Chief of Army Staff, General Kayani should immediately take charge of the forces. General Kayani should work under the interim president.
4. All political workers and members of legal fraternity arrested in the wake of emergency should be released.
5. All bureaucratic institutions with their current officers should keep functioning under the interim president.

We urge Pakistani political parties to quickly consent to an interim president. One choice obvious to many would be Retired Chief Justice Wajihuddin Ahmed who as a public servant not only had a spotless career, but who gained considerable public support while recently running for President against Pervez Musharraf

Till an interim government through the wishes of Pakistanis and Pakistan’s political parties takes command we ask all citizens to commence an indefinite strike starting from Monday, November 5.

#154 zeemax: I think laddu has a point here. "Sovereignty to Allah" sounds fine in theory, but has historically translated, and can only translate, in practice to "Sovereignty to the General" (i.e. the man with the most firepower).

I suggest this substitute:

"Sovereignty to the People"..because.. "Vox Populi, Vox Dei" (the voice of the people is the voice of God).

If you oppose military's theft of this sovereignty from the people, then you should also oppose potential theives claiming to speak for Allah.

#154 Posted by laddu,

Laddu Ji, this is exactly what I meant by "which is abhorred by the west and considered as a threat"

Don't worry. No one is after your scalp in implementing the sovereignty of Allah. It is a vital concept in Islam aimed solely towards delivery of socio-economic justice.

Re: # 151

"sovereignty of Allah is merely there to remove tyranny of human rulers. I think it is a brilliant concept."

Zeemax ji,

sovereignty of Allah is the most heinous of concepts. It is like the sovereignity of God that was discredited in the dark ages that enhances tyranny of human rulers.
I think it is a brilliant concept for dictators for subjugating people and keeping them under fear all the time.

#150 Posted by tahmed32,

In that article of Bilal Musharraf's of 14 October 1999, I still remember I had posted that musharraf will be ultimately dragged in the streets.

Just today on the only Geo feed available on http://pkpolitics.com Justice Wajeehuddin was saying musharraf has committed high-treason twice and will be tried and hanged. So did Imran Khan. Both said this proclamation is a matter of no more than a few days or weeks.

..i was in uae when the emergency was declared, so had a chance to see everything on geo.....pretty good coverage.....

......as i had said earlier, musharraf should have left after three years.....he would have been a hero......now he is stuck.....

.....the only thing he has going for him, is religion.....when one makes one's whole stand around religion, one will always get some passionated followers who will forget all other sins......musharraf has been able to achieve this.......he has projected himself as the last bullwark against religious extremism......and has gained the support of the usa, the daily times, and much of the expat crowd......

.......however, that also has limitations......

pakistan is now in a totally strange place.......a martial law has been declared by an unelected president against his own government!......the constitution is in abeyance, yet the assemblies function!.......however, the courts are gone!......i.e. a coas has fired the president, who happens to be himself!........

what is even more strange is that those condemning this did exactly the same thing.......nawaz sharif almost passed the shariah bill, which would have made him a dictator......he declared an emergency after the nuclear blasts (??).....he also got rid of a chief justice, by physically storming the supreme court.......and he has a lot to gain from the supreme court being submissive, as he has corruption cases going on.......

.......benazir, is a lifetime head of her own party, hence its perpetual pm candidate......her father declared martial law, after the 1973 constitution had been passed......she also tried to subvert the judiciary, through jiyala judges...and she has major corruption cases against, with far too much proof to be let off......in fact, she is convicted in switzerland.......so she would also want a submissive judiciary........

........altaf hussain has condemned the martial law.....yet his own party is in power...and his governor in sind administered the oath to the new judges.......and altaf would also want a submissive judiciary, as he has multiple murder cases against him........

.......one has to hand it to the judges.....only a small fraction has accepted the pco at the provincial and state level......they have given up their jobs, on a matter of principal......

as i said earlier, smart money is no urstruly and the religiuos right.......the liberal leadership of pakistan is now totally discredited and is too mired in violence.....musharraf, ppp and mqm are the liberal side.......all three have done whatever they can to gain or stay in power.......

.......the religious right has no corruption cases against it.......is represented by the poor......much of it is internally democratic......they have not killed anyone, a la mqm........and they are quite shrewd, (fazl etc.).......

......musharraf's speech was one of the worst i have ever heard from anyone.......totally incoherent......

....in the end it is back to the people......if they come out into the streets, things will change.....if not, then either they figure that bb, musharraf, ns etc. all the same.......or they have become to cynical and have given up......

#146 Posted by jayp,

Your post talks a lot of sense, but jayp, how many people listen to sense?

You're right anything Islamic is branded as terrorist, and bombed. Just as most of what I say is branded as 'terrorist', and abused. It is only that I understand Islam better than most, and I know Islam will never be eliminated with bombs.

Fact is that Islam is an alternate socio-economic system just as communism was, or even now socialism is in most European countries. It is merely a concept of a welfare state, with the vital difference (which is abhorred by the west and considered as a threat) is that sovereignty rests with God instead of man. Is that too much to crib about? In my understanding, sovereignty of Allah is merely there to remove tyranny of human rulers. I think it is a brilliant concept.

Why bomb people who want this system? Why not just let them have it?

As for the Pakistan nuke, it is India specific. If India agrees to denuclearize, Pakistan will have no problem as well. It is not an 'Islamic' bomb but just to counter the Indian threat. The west has nothing to feel threatened with it.In any event, does Pakistan have delivery capacity to reach Europe let alone USA?

These inconsistencies are those which make the Muslims convinced the war on terror is in fact a war against Islam.

I agree with that view.

zeemax: I went back and checked a couple of your posts after #94. So, mqm is saying "he had no choice". Let us hope one day musharraf really has no choice - when he is brought before court and charged with multiple crimes.

#148 Posted by tahmed32,

... and the media. Do read my later posts after #94.

zeemax #94 the coup wasnt against himself by this disgraceful man. it was against the Supreme Court.

Zyxius #126 So you think mqm and musharraf are riding high? Think again, you fool.

Zeemax,

May be people like you will have to come up with a new vision for Pakistan, a moderate islamic vision, something like that in Iran. It is even likely that when the jihadis get power in Pakistan, they will moderate. But that will be a long time away, now under the US influence anything islamic is terrorist oriented, and an accommodation with the islamic parties is not viable. That si why the peace treaty in NWFP is viewed with suspicion, and I do believe that what Mushy is trying is the only viable option to stabilise Afghanistan. Hopefully taliban will form part of the ruling coalition in Afghanistan and then only some semblance of peace will come to NWFP.

For teh time being, it does not look good for Pakistan. The YLH and others of Pakistan is in a difficult position, on one side they are western educated and they feel sort of obliged to deny the presence and even the domination of extreme islamic views in the pak society, all the time blaming it on outside forces. That complicates the situation, but Pakistan having never experienced democracy, having never experienced a situation where laws can be made in tune with the aspirations of the people, have to resort to the charade.

Finally, bomb is the mill stone around Pakistan and because of it the US and others will never let Pakistan alone to find a new islamic way.

Jay Prakash,

Thank you for your honesty. I appreciate that.

And let me tell you one thing ... the YLH, Ferozk and others who live in Pakistan trying their best to create a positive image (i.e. a false pro-West image) for Pakistan are simply trying to fish in a pool of their own piss.

What they perceive Pakistan to be, is the Pakistan of a privileged few. Pakistan in fact is very different.

Above doesn't mean that it is incompatible with the West, or cannot integrate ... but simply that its Islamic identity and interests as quite separate from others have to be accepted. There is no other way.

Zeemax,

Despite my posts on the side of flippancy, I do feel sad for the people of Pakistan.

Due to cruel act of destiny, they are locked in a position where they can do nothing about the situation.

The YLH, Ferozk and others who live in Pakistan have tried their best to create a positive image for Pakistan.

My heart goes out to those educated decent humans.

Regrads

Jay Prakash

P.S. No spelling mistakes in this post.

#141 Posted by jayp,

Now for teh B52s, one does not need much of any accurate locations.

Guess not. But it's kind of disappointing they haven't worked in South of Afghanistan in getting enough Jihadis to heaven and putting NATO in their places ...

jayp,

simply because there were no TVs during the koranic times.

... however satellite phones were ... courtesy of Gabriel!

Zeemax 138,

I recall teh early days of LTTE in srilanka, the govt banned the sale of bicycles in the tamil region because the LTTE were using them.

The satelite phones, well the govt can get in touch with teh iridium or what ever, and the US will help to shut that down.

Then again, satelite phones are helpful in locating the bad guys. Now for teh B52s, one does not need much of any accurate locations.

#137 Posted by jayp,

...and now what mushy needs is gas chambers.

Hmmm ... I could consider that ... but is musharraf a good counterparty credit risk?

I mean, I know the Jihadis always meet their financial commitments, so guess I'll stick with the guillotines!

Romair,

Where are you. I cannot access even dawn. With the mobile phones down, internet shut down, it should be boom time for teh Pak IT sector.

I do hope that teh events of today will make the educated of pakistan aware of the reality, there is no point in pretending, pakistan is an islamic country, and media freedom is un-islamic, simply because there were no TVs during the koranic times.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article2800993.ece

" But General Hamid Gul, the former head of Pakistan’s military intelligence and a long-time opponent of Bhutto, said Musharraf's state of emergency would have no impact in the war with Islamic militants.

“The terrorist campaign will become more intense, but the army cannot do any more under martial law. It’s a suicidal action on Musharraf's part,” Gul said.

Haha ... I'm having the time of my life !

Zeemax,

You wanted to go into gulletine production. Up grade that to gas chambers. It is estimated that a million jihadis have been produced by teh madrassas, and now what mushy needs is gas chambers.

contd ...

and the entire coordination of tribal actionms is facilitated by the mobile phones

Err ... no ... it is coordinated with satellite phones ... and you can't shut them down. Sorry!

LoL .... Haha .... good fun jayp!

Hamid gul has been arrested. That is good news, there are elements in teh pak military that trying to overthrow my dear mushy. I hope a few more generals will vanish, this time serving generals.

The entire notion of judiciary in pakistan is absurd, teh courts make sense only when there is a law enforcement mechanism. Pakistan has no such system and it is natural that teh courts should go.

Mushy, thanks for removing teh pretensions and I hope you will find some military people to become cheif justices, and remove the last of this charade.

#131 Posted by jayp,

It happens to em ...

Haha ... yes I agree you a have a problem with fingers and mind. Is there any chance your mind is in your bottom and your fingers are stuck in it? hahaha :)

As for your thesis re "there need to be death squads", have you ever seen any better death squads than the Jihadis? haha!

Zyxius writes "I know of a Masadi who is a Bibi chamcha and also current MQM thug"

You have no clue about me so keep your damn trap shut if you don't know what you're talking about.

Regarding the TV channels, all Western and Indian media were accessible before Musharraf, in fact in 1992 the government itself was broadcasting CNN live- when you have no control over information it makes little difference if you give licences to one or hundred and one tv channels, but trying to block information as Musharraf is doing now stinks not only because it is impossible to implement given access to the global media but because it stinks of hypocrisy. Not only have you not been able to answer what I write your support for dictatorship of the worst kind thus far in Pakistan, that has not only increased cronyism and taken it to new levels, it has increased public poverty and fermented a civil war, tells us a lot about your immorality...

Politicians are 'corrupt'! Journalists are 'traitors'! Judiciary is 'overstepping its limits'! The 'bloody civilians' are 'terrorists'! Only Musharaf is 'upright, loyal to the country, works within bounds', and 'moderately enlightened'! Only he has the 'vision'; everyone else is 'dumb'. He is above and beyond law; he is above and beyond reason. Pakistan does not deserve Musharaf and yet has to endure him!

I wonder how common sense can so easily be jeopardized by irrelvant arguments! What scholarship does one require to declare that Musharaf has hankering after power and nothing else?

Zeemax,

It happens to em even at work, the always become teh, the computer seems slower than my fingers.

Go mushy go.

I agree with Zyxious, freedom in pakistan and in the media appear to be the freedom to promote jihad and the entire coordination of tribal actionms is facilitated by the mobile phones, It is time these are cut off and the jihadis sent to their heavens.

Same with teh criminals of karachi. There can be no ;legal process to handle the situation, there need to be death squads and once the place is cleaned out then one can talk about democrazy.

One has to admit the honesty of Mushy, teh charade of constitution and the supreme court had to stop, and if teh doctrine of necessity is gone as repeated by teh court, thgen the entore pakistans legal system is on the verge of collapse. If Mushy cannot become president due to soem technicality, it is absurd, only the doctrine of necessity can save him.

I blame that stupid judge for creating teh present situation, he said that they will bury even the sould of the doctrine of necessity, indicating that mushy cannot become president.

My beloved mushy, get some blackwater guys to protect you, even the army has the bearded generals and they are out to get you.

#129 Posted by NaghmaSanj,

Again another minion of the WOT wallahs missing the point altogether ...

Amaan yaar, the Martial-Law this time is neither against the Prime Minister, nor Parliament, nor to cope with any enemy etc including Jihadis. This Martial-Law focuses on elimination of independence of the Superior Judiciary and electronic Media.

So, if you want to fight the Jihadis, this Martial-Law will not help you. It will only make the Jihadis stronger to your great disappointment.

The Mahabharata tells a story about how Guru Dronacharya, the teacher of the great warrior Arjuna, demonstrated Arjuna's superiority as a warrior to his jealous rivals, by hanging a fish from the branch of a tree and asking them to compete by shooting an arrow through its eye. As they drew their arrow however Dronacharya asked each of them what they saw, and they all described the surroundings of the fish in remarkable detail. But when Arjuna was asked, "What do you see?" his reply was, "The eye of a fish."

Like Arjuna, we must also separate the inessential from the essential. It may (or may not) be true that the media are freer under Musharraf, that you can use abusive language on state television, the alternatives to Musharraf are worse, that foreign investment may decline, that young professionals may have fewer good jobs in banking and IT, that the "mullahs" (or some other bete noir) will "take over" (whatever that means), that India may gain or lose from change, etc. But surely these are not the most important issues.

Surely, the key issue is will some people be above the law in Pakistan, or will the law (any law) be above all persons? In establishing the supremacy of law (any law) we must guard against allowing those who refuse to submit to the law to divide us by playing upon our fears and prejudices. A group of people who refuse to submit to the law, and use violence to terrorise the people when threatened, are terrorists; and terrorists must be resisted, even at the expense of being called terrorists ourselves.

#125 Posted by Zyxius,

I understand your POV and respect it. But merey Bhai, please understand that the right of free speech is embedded in the constitution as part of civil liberties, and is inalienable.

It was always the 'right' of the media to be free, and noone did them a favour when it was finally allowed.

Now that it's been revoked, will you think the next person who reverses it will do a 'favour' as well?

But jayp, you're right about one thing. The yanks are hopping mad about their $10 billion gone for nothing, and want their money's worth. Read Washington Post and NY Times today. They are ALL cribbing about the $10 billion.

I remember I asked Waseem Akhtar, MQM Minister, before an interview this question:

Sir, I am fairly new to Pakistan and dont really know how things work here so I hope you dont mind my asking you, but if I ask you the wrong question...will I make it home alive?

The Gods honest truth!! He laughed and replied, "no no those days are now gone and you can ask whatever you please" You can make whatever the hell you want of this, but those who arent totally brain washed know its true that Mushy has allowed this freedom even if your being on Bibi's payroll doesnt allow you to admit it.

No Zeemax, having someone calling a Pakistani PM or President a Kutta on Pakistani television is different from someone on British TV calling a British PM a poodle simply because that is commonplace in Britain and the government cannot do anything about it. Before Mushy you had to wonder if you may make it home alive if you made such a statement against a Pakistani PM (Bibi) on Pakistani TV. Come on for Gods Sake...dont be so openly biased!

I am a former TV anchor from a major TV station admitting that the media is biased against Musharraf. Ayesha Tammy Haq, Kamran Khan, and others make their living on picking fights and inciting the public. The media is to blame for its own woes....I have no sympathy for them. Their formula was always to tell the anchors that viewership is only created through controversy. Its their jackal-like mindset that caused this restriction on them today.

#122 Posted by Zyxius,

Haha ... Blair as poodle is different from musharraf as kutta!

I guess masadi is right about you.

jayp,

teh, teh ...

At first I thought it was a typo, but you always use this spelling for 'the'.

Any particular reason? Does your mind run faster for the letter 'e' than 'h'? :)

Zeemax, that is different because it did not exist in Pakistan before. Funny how the standards for comparison change in a second when we shift from the government to the opposition.

I support emergency,

The entire lal majid event is a media beat up, for a country like pakistan where a few hundred are killed in teh streets while their mobile are being snatched, the death of a few in lal majid is a non-event. It is teh media with their live coverage, turned that routine law and order event into a religious event.

The ilks of Zeemax have used thsi to incite the jihadis calling to pakistan banegs iraq slogan.

Mushy I am with you, now with the media out of the picture, go for it mushy, make pakistan a safer place, knock pout the jihadis, there are time when you have to show greatfulness, cannot be a namak haram to the yanks for so long.

Your army people know very well, they cannot keep on collceting the dollars without delivering. Good mushy good, great mushy great.

And...Mr Masadi...what kind of BS are you spewing about media before Musharraf? Are you actually telling us that the 50 channels that exist now and openly do anything they please existed before 2000? NTM and Zee TV did not do what Geo, Aaj, Business Plus, and the others all do now. Please put forth some solid facts so as to provide some credence to your point of view.

Mr Masadi...your personal attacks reveal your distaste for purposeful discourse. My anger was directed at public figures whom rightfully deserve criticism from the public. Your personal attack on me is representative of how the "democratic opposition" handles any democratic debate. Your name Masadi...you wouldnt happen to be one of those MQM or PPP chamchas would you? I know of a Masadi who is a Bibi chamcha and also current MQM thug. Vested interests come out very clearly Mr Masadi and your irrational hatred for Mushy is probably based on those factors.

"Must the expat son of a well known bastard". My God Masadi, you dont believe in open discussion do you? In your next line you even talk about freedom of speech. Its exactly this type of open stupid hypocrisy that Bibi and her cronies regularly dole out to the public and expect to be swallowed.

For your information none of my family has lived in Pakistan for the last 30 years. I am the only person from my family in Pakistan, and have returned many years ago to call this place my home. No political connections and I belong to a minority community, unlike the Masadis who are politicians. I suggest that if you proclaim to believe in democracy you should at least be willing to discuss matters with others without resorting to the kind of behavior you showed demonstrated.

Time to deliver,

Thsi time mushy will deliver, for teh nearly 10 billion he has collected from the yanks, he has not delivered osama, and now he is going to deliver...for those who live in the afghan border with pakistan, move out, the B52s are coming, and daisy cutters are not some kind of flower cutting widgets.

You all had teh jihad, you had your happy days, you helped pakistan to get some part of kashmir, you were in the kargill invasion, you helped to get rid of teh russians in afghanistan and now it is heaven time for you all, it is shehdad time, and wish you a happy life in heavens.

Then of course, if you could have a jihadic coupe, then you will be fine for some time.

This is the best day for Pakistan. For a long time I have suggested euthnesia for failed states, now even mushy declared, if he were not to act it would be suicide for pakistan.

Now the media is off, the opportunities for muyshy to get any monies from others are reduced, and is totally dependant on the yanks...and the days of teh jihadis are numbered. There will be large scale slaughter in waziristan.

Finally, like the Xia days, pakistan will be living off the jihadis, thsi time army will be apid for killing the jihadis.

Musharraf will be gone before the new year dawns, the Americans will get rid of him or he will stay without the uniform in the relatively powerless presidential position, those who are singing victory now are extremely shortsighted

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#113 Posted by Zyxius,

I saw on TV day before yesterday some PML-N member calling Musharraf a "kutta" and his administration officials "billas".

How is that any different from British Media calling blair "Bush's poodle"?

But never mind ... since you want to kill Iftikhar Chaudhry and Ch. Aitezaz :)

I saw on TV day before yesterday some PML-N member calling Musharraf a "kutta" and his administration officials "billas". This is on Pakistani television and the administration allows this behavior. You will never see this freedom again under any other leader we have at the moment. Media, Chief Justice and activist lawyers are to blame for this crisis.

Everyone seems to be bad-mouthing Musharraf right now and I would like to ask those critics a few questions;

1. Do you remember what media freedom was like before Musharraf? I have been an anchor on Pakistani television and I can tell you that we never faced any restrictions, even when we brutally maimed a senior government official on one of our programs. We never feared the government as long as Mushy was on top. The media has repaid him with utter disloyalty...every station is anti-Musharraf for no reason except to create controversy and hype. They always play the role of instigator.

2. Do you remember that we almost defaulted on our debts and were almost declared bancrupt under Bibi?

3. Do you see any alternatives in Bibi, Nawaz, Altaf, Fazlur Rehman, Qazi Hussain, or any of these other time-tested failures/criminals/terrorists?

4. Do you think that another government will be able to fight the fight against those who are suicide bombing us? Bibi would simply hand over the keys to the US army and tell us Pakistanis to stay out of the way.

5. Do you think that the policy of extra ordinary renditions would be any different in Bibi or any other criminal's administration?

6. Has not our economy provided countless jobs for us young, educated people who would otherwise have had to look abroad for such opportunities?

7. Did you see the return of all those tinted land cruisers filled with shady looking Sindhi fuedals the days Bibi was returning? Do you want to see these asshole Feudals on your streets again? They won't just be menacingly cruising our neighborhoods in their tinted cars giving us all threatening stares as they drive by, but they'll be in power if Bibi returns!

8. Did you see so much foreign investment during any other government's administration? How about bridges, roads, highways, major projects?

9. When was the last time any of our assemblies completed their full term? When did you ever see the Nazim of a city like Karachi being as accountable and communicating with the people of the city as you have during Mushy's administration?

10. Where do you think all of us young people who have decent jobs right now, working with media, or IT, or an investment bank...where do you think we'll have to go if Bibi returns or if Musharraf's plans are derailed? I think we'll all have to leave the country to look for jobs abroad. It will be the saddest day of our lives....we came with such hopes and ambitions for our country.

Very very sad day for us all. I trust Mushy and I believe that he is doing what is best for the country. I was terrified when I saw Bibi returning and our "democracy" going back 10 years once again. This action may possibly turn the clock back 1.5 years and give us another chance to enter phase 3 (the return to democratic rule). I trust Mushy boy because I remember what it was like before. I personally think we should hang Chaudry Iftikhar for instigating national instability, Aitizaz Ahsan and all of those bastards causing this should be strung up for creating this mess. They all sound so sincere and the cause (independance of the judiciary) seems to noble, but it is a false flag that smells of vested interests that are keen to destabilize all that has been achieved in the last 7 years. Kill Aitizaz Ahsan and Chaudry Iftikhar!!

Musharraf has unreasonable temptation for power, soon he would be restless and unhappy!

BB is dead right when she says that the mullah take over is on cards.
The ISI and the jehadi corp commanders are plotting the take over. Musharaff is under grave threat. He could be assasinated any time.
US MUST get hands at the nukes before they fall in the hands of Jehadi corp commanders who are going to coup with the support of MMA mullahs.
It is not only Pakistan , bu the entire world whose security is at stake from Islamists.
US must deploy troops along Pakistan and get the game plan in order before the nukes fall in the hands of the ISI Jehadi corp commanders.
With Paki nukes in hand, the mullahs can black mail US and the entire world for ever.

#105 Posted by bubba,

What's this got to do with 'faith wars' yaar? The Supreme Court and the media weren't fighting any faith wars while this coup is solely to tame those two institutions, and NOT the Jihadis whom this admin was fighting anyway. Martial-Law will not change anything in that respect.

I suggest you read musharraf's speech of last night to see who his beef is with.

Re: # 105

Mian Bubba,

The entire world is under a war and a Fatwa declared by the mullah Islam.
Pakistan is embroiled because the immediate object of hatred for mullah Islam are the munafiqoons.They are the closest in physical proximity and hence are the immediate target.
Musharaff and the rest of munafiqoons are going to face the sword of hate first.
We idolators know that ultimately we are going to some day confront this cult of hate up front.
So, the "munafiqoons" like musharaff are our first line of defence. That is why we support the "munafiqoons" as a strategy because their success in controlling this cult of hatred guarantees our future survival from this fascistic ideology of Islam.

#106 Posted by bjkumar,

Good article. I read it on WSJ.

Particularly following para is right on the dot:

The Bush administration must now start "from the premise that he's gone, whether the people chuck him out or the military chucks him out," said Xenia Dormandy, who until last year was the National Security Council's director for South Asia. "I would be very surprised if he lasts even six months."

Is this the beginning of the end of the (limited) US leverage over Pakistan?

As Crisis Deepens, White House Endures Diminished Power to Influence Events

By Glenn Kessler
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, November 4, 2007; A01

In August, a 2 a.m. phone call from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice helped pull Gen. Pervez Musharraf from the brink of declaring a state of emergency in Pakistan. Two days ago, Rice made a similar plea. This time, the Pakistani president was not swayed.

Musharraf's decision to suspend his nation's constitution and declare emergency rule yesterday poses a sharp setback for U.S. efforts to push Pakistan toward democracy, and it calls into question President Bush's unstinting support for Musharraf despite the general's growing unpopularity and inability to counter hard-line militants, analysts said.

The United States now finds itself with few good options and dwindling power to influence events in the nuclear-armed state, particularly because experts believe Musharraf's actions may have ensured his demise as a national leader. The Bush administration has given Pakistan $10 billion in aid since 2001 -- much of it military assistance -- and U.S. officials had warned that Congress may balk at continuing aid if emergency powers were invoked. But some analysts cautioned that if the United States is perceived as withdrawing support for Musharraf, it may increase the risk of a civil war and the shattering of Pakistan.

Rice, who called Musharraf on Friday and warned him against taking this step, said yesterday that Musharraf's actions are "highly regrettable," telling reporters traveling with her that "the United States has made clear it does not support extra-constitutional measures, because those measures would take Pakistan away from the path of democracy and civilian rule."

U.S. officials appeared taken aback by Musharraf's move but quickly shifted yesterday from expressions of dismay to resignation, insisting that any "extra-constitutional measures" be brief. There was no suggestion of immediate cuts in aid, and Rice indicated that she had told Musharraf that, even if he imposed emergency rule, he nonetheless should move quickly to elections.

The Bush administration must now start "from the premise that he's gone, whether the people chuck him out or the military chucks him out," said Xenia Dormandy, who until last year was the National Security Council's director for South Asia. "I would be very surprised if he lasts even six months."

Dormandy faulted the Bush administration for sending "mixed messages" to Musharraf in recent months, allowing him to believe he could weather the fallout from a declaration of emergency powers. She emphasized the State Department's statement yesterday that the United States stands "with the people of Pakistan in supporting a democratic process and in countering violent extremism," and noted that it did not mention support for Musharraf.

"The train is derailed and off the tracks," said Stephen P. Cohen, author of "The Idea of Pakistan." "We have to give ourselves a share of the responsibility for this. We placed all of our chips on Musharraf."

At this point, Cohen added: "I don't think there is anything we can do. We are not big players in this anymore."

Bush has long been a firm supporter of Musharraf, believing he was a "strong partner" in the fight against terrorism who put his life at risk after he dramatically switched sides and opposed the Taliban in Afghanistan after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States.

Musharraf's democratic credentials have been less than ideal for an administration that publicly champions the cause of freedom. He seized power in a bloodless coup in 1999 and has never fulfilled a pledge to give up his position as army chief while serving as president. But the administration rarely challenged him openly to support more rapid democratization.

Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del.) said Musharraf's action requires the United States "to move from a Musharraf policy to a Pakistan policy," building "a new relationship with the Pakistani people, with more nonmilitary aid, sustained over a long period of time, so that the moderate majority in Pakistan has a chance to succeed."

Even on countering terrorism, Musharraf has proven to be a disappointment. Despite years of effort, only a handful of top al-Qaeda figures have been captured in the unruly border areas between Pakistan and Afghanistan. Negotiated settlements Musharraf reached last year with armed Islamic groups and tribal leaders in North and South Waziristan, in which he pledged to pull back troops from the border areas if the tribes kept al-Qaeda and foreign fighters out, turned into a bad bet that instead allowed insurgents to gather strength and to begin challenging the government in other parts of the country.

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman called Musharraf's declaration "unfortunate" but said "close coordination with the Pakistani military on operations continues."

The administration continued to back Musharraf, even as he began to hint at invoking emergency powers after a confrontation with Pakistan's Supreme Court. In August, during a late-night phone call, Rice managed to deter the Pakistani president from suspending the constitution. In the intervening weeks, the United States, along with Britain, worked out a deal that allowed opposition leader Benazir Bhutto, a former prime minister, to return to Pakistan last month for the first time in eight years. Under the arrangement, Musharraf was to remain president, but Bhutto could take part in parliamentary elections planned for early next year. But the U.S. efforts to support opposition parties came too late, experts said.

"The coup in Pakistan is a body blow to the administration's efforts to arrange a shotgun marriage between Musharraf and Bhutto that would have given the appearance of a broadening of Pakistani politics," said Bruce Riedel, a former CIA analyst and National Security Council staff member now at the Brookings Institution's Saban Center. "Instead of a more democratic Pakistan, we will have a more authoritarian Pakistan. Instead of a more stable Pakistan fighting al-Qaeda, we will have a military regime fighting for its survival."

A number of Pakistan experts said the situation is too fluid for predictions. "I don't know what's going to happen," Cohen said. "I don't think any Pakistan expert knows what will happen even tomorrow."

Rice was in Istanbul, Turkey, attending an international conference on Iraq when her attention was shifted to the upheaval in Pakistan. One adviser traveling with Rice saw a silver lining in the rapid turn of events. "Thank heavens for small favors," the official said. Compared to Pakistan, "Iraq looks pretty good."

Re: # 100 Posted by laddu on November 3, 2007 9:41:00 pm

[- Iran would be the next.] And the whole world could only imagine of what comes next. Any idea?

Re: #103 Posted by zeemax on November 3, 2007 9:48:31 pm

[And amidst all the destruction and chaos in the region, bharat will sit pretty - right?] Of course not. Bharat will have her hands full trying to figure out toilets for her population.

me personally think that faith wars are here to stay for a long time, and that region is just too explosive.

Re: # 102

Mian , remember we idolators are merciful and instead of killing men we used smaller "Kirpan" to cut your covenant with that blood thirsty moon god.
We cut your covenant and deliver it to your haram so that the women folk rejoice out of freedom from that piece of nasty flesh that is used to impose slavery upon them.
Remember , even till date every sikh carries a kirpan that comes handy to cut that covenant.

#101 Posted by bubba,

And amidst all the destruction and chaos in the region, bharat will sit pretty - right?

#100 Posted by laddu,

Laddu Mian, have you arranged for a head donor yet? You might need one :)

me personally think this war is beyond this regime's grasp. regime is a gonner, west punjab will lose. pashtoons are not alone and small in numbers like baluchis. the two will be killer for punjabi army, plus the east punjab sikhs have already schemes to get all of punjab. unless pak army plays the shia army card against the sunni pushtoons. nobody likes pakistan disintegration, us to send centcom to control nuclear assets. hence iran gets surrounded, and all those 29 spots of iran nuclear sites are easy targets for some bombing. only spot in total control for center is the mafiasos hangout of Karachi.

R