Do You Have a Substitute?
Salman Aneel November 4, 2007
#139 Posted by izuber on March 9, 2008 9:03:26 pm
"Freedom of expression" is a lovely term yet, while a great majority of people around the world claim this freedom, what comes to mind is that, how it is defined, what are the parameters? what if any ethics are applicable to this privilege? how, when & by whom should this be exercised and what happens when one surpasses the limits of civility? isn't it a privilege for civilized societies who care to raise their voice and concerns in a civil mode, without inflicting uncivilized statements & profanities, & without transgressing to the extent of being blood thirsty?
In as much as I have seen in my short life of over half a century, we the Pakistanis, have never accepted any and I mean "any" govt to have done good for the nation as a whole. Everyone who ruled this poor nation of ours have at one time or another been blamed for having abused the nation, everyone has typically installed their cronies while in power. I mean there is no exception to this rule be it a civilian govt in Pakistan or the Military dictatorship.
We have not once allowed any govt. to complete it's term, & have typically removed everyone who came to power in as far as I can see.
As an example, even though majority of us happen to be the followers of Deen-e-Islam we don't spare a chance to envy our very own neighbors sharing a a wall with us, when it comes to going beyond our resources we have no reservations, if the neighbor spend Rs 1 on an occasion of their family we feel challenged unless we spend more than that and make sure we do even if we have to resort to money that we secure by unfair and unlawful means(such as bribery). I can go on listing many examples which describe our state of confusion but would rather limit due to space and time it takes to read through.
In my humble opinion and observation we and I mean all of us will have to go back to the basics and adopt what our noble Deen prescribes, and, mind you this should not happen because someone says so or some so-called religious figure imposes so; it should happen from within each of us at our own, a serious effort for soul searching as to where we go wrong and how to correct ourselves as I personally don't like anyone else pointing a finger at me no matter how wrong or bad I happen to be and I expect everyone has the same feeling.
We cannot conclude our current declining state that is taking us nowhere but towards self-destruction unless we assess our own shortcomings and make a sincere effort to fix all of those, yes it takes time and effort but it certainly will be fruitful in the long run as an individual, as a society and as a nation.
I am not a mullah, molvi or a scholar per se, I am just an ordinary Pakistani like anyone else but my inside tells me that before we began to seek the rights & privileges we should allow civility to settle within ourselves since this "might is right" politics cannot survive for too long a period and may spell out the demise of our nation at our own hands(God forbid).
May Allah SWT bless us with the wisdom to assess and evaluate ourselves and enable us to take prudent steps resulting in flourishing decisions for our homeland of Pakistan, & may Allah SWT save us from fitnah amongst ourselves, ameen suma ameen. To end my comments I seek the forgiveness of anyone who feels offended due to any of my comments. Thank you.
In as much as I have seen in my short life of over half a century, we the Pakistanis, have never accepted any and I mean "any" govt to have done good for the nation as a whole. Everyone who ruled this poor nation of ours have at one time or another been blamed for having abused the nation, everyone has typically installed their cronies while in power. I mean there is no exception to this rule be it a civilian govt in Pakistan or the Military dictatorship.
We have not once allowed any govt. to complete it's term, & have typically removed everyone who came to power in as far as I can see.
As an example, even though majority of us happen to be the followers of Deen-e-Islam we don't spare a chance to envy our very own neighbors sharing a a wall with us, when it comes to going beyond our resources we have no reservations, if the neighbor spend Rs 1 on an occasion of their family we feel challenged unless we spend more than that and make sure we do even if we have to resort to money that we secure by unfair and unlawful means(such as bribery). I can go on listing many examples which describe our state of confusion but would rather limit due to space and time it takes to read through.
In my humble opinion and observation we and I mean all of us will have to go back to the basics and adopt what our noble Deen prescribes, and, mind you this should not happen because someone says so or some so-called religious figure imposes so; it should happen from within each of us at our own, a serious effort for soul searching as to where we go wrong and how to correct ourselves as I personally don't like anyone else pointing a finger at me no matter how wrong or bad I happen to be and I expect everyone has the same feeling.
We cannot conclude our current declining state that is taking us nowhere but towards self-destruction unless we assess our own shortcomings and make a sincere effort to fix all of those, yes it takes time and effort but it certainly will be fruitful in the long run as an individual, as a society and as a nation.
I am not a mullah, molvi or a scholar per se, I am just an ordinary Pakistani like anyone else but my inside tells me that before we began to seek the rights & privileges we should allow civility to settle within ourselves since this "might is right" politics cannot survive for too long a period and may spell out the demise of our nation at our own hands(God forbid).
May Allah SWT bless us with the wisdom to assess and evaluate ourselves and enable us to take prudent steps resulting in flourishing decisions for our homeland of Pakistan, & may Allah SWT save us from fitnah amongst ourselves, ameen suma ameen. To end my comments I seek the forgiveness of anyone who feels offended due to any of my comments. Thank you.
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#138 Posted by teshah on February 16, 2008 3:02:29 pm
Re: # 12
Freethinker
You say:
"It is better to give the governance of this country on contract to some external secular country for a time and allow some healthy institutions to take root in the meantime. Or, better still, invite the United Nations to govern the country."
That is perhaps the best proposition in the circumstances. Why not request Britain to revoke the Act of Independence before Mush takes us back to the stone age.
Freethinker
You say:
"It is better to give the governance of this country on contract to some external secular country for a time and allow some healthy institutions to take root in the meantime. Or, better still, invite the United Nations to govern the country."
That is perhaps the best proposition in the circumstances. Why not request Britain to revoke the Act of Independence before Mush takes us back to the stone age.
#137 Posted by Nikhat on November 22, 2007 6:54:17 am
A Letter To Musharraf’s Supporters:
You have an opinion and have a right to express and dears that’s what we need to see in Pakistan. I am a Pakistani citizen too and just want to exercise my basic human right ‘freedom of expression’. When no one is allowed to point fingers to ‘Musharraf’ and his sacred ‘allies’ how they could enjoy the same? Who has given them this unquestionable authority to do whatever ‘they’ think is right and legitimate in every sense (certainly not the ‘Pakistani Awam’), without giving the fair chance to other Pakistanis to prove their innocence?
If media was portraying ‘one sided' and ‘Negative’ stories according to you guys so what's the big deal? What about the state controlled channels and news papers which had been the perpetrators of the same crime since ages? The only difference is that that worked for state not against it. If anchors like Dr Shahid, Talat Hussain, Nusrat Javaid, Kamran Abbasi etc are so annoying to you just switch off the channel or just turn to P.T.V. to listen to your kind of stuff. Why so much afraid of the 'other side of story'. And don't talk about CNN or BBC that they also follow code of conduct. If they had been guilty of the same crime, people like 'Michael Moore' and 'George Galloway' would have been arrested long time back. The lies, the propaganda, airing state crimes in explicit way (which is another lie) for which 'Geo and ARY’ were considereds responsible, were far less than P.T.V.’s "Zulm kee Dastan" televised in Zia-ul-Haq's regime which was totally one sided and graphic at the same time. But that was O.K as that's what “they” wanted. It was not long ago when we were tortured by only one version of Ptv and when the opposition, now ruling party of Karachi used to lament that their side of story was never showed or was always twisted. What Pervaiz Musharraf did in the name of 'code of conduct' to some private channels is clearly depicting the true face of his masqueraded democratic reign and the reality of the credit of 'free media’ that he always was so pompous about has surfaced.
If civilian regimes and our leaders ( 'Benazir' and 'Nawaz Sharif') had not come up to the expectation of Pakistani people and have ruined the country that too in no way permits our holy army to cross their boundary and rob the rights of people of Pakistan to choose and express their opinion. Actually we were never given a chance to continue electing and rejecting our leaders and to roll the process for churning new leadership because of our greedy army Generals. Our civilian leaders from the beginning have paved the way for army to protect their regime and in return army after obliging them attempted never to have civilian rule again at all costs. Both are culprits but we still believe in the only fine system of governess in the world which is for the people, of the people and by the people. Why go far just peep in the neighboring country India. Their leaders are not angels and suffer with the plague of corruption too but the process of democracy in its worst form kept on progressing and was never hijacked by their "border saviors". The institutions gradually had taken their strength and still growing. It is a process, the democracy a system for which we are fighting. The prerequisite of democracy which according to you is ‘literacy’ is the natural outcome of this system and not the excuse for martial law.
Because of sustained, programmed and planned propaganda by our military dictators against the civilian elected leaders and against the power of democracy young people like you have given hope for democracy in Pakistan. Remember dictatorship or fascism only works for you as long it is favors you. Had people with your kind of approach were right the human race would never have achieved the progress or development of any sort, the examples you could get from past and present. In past all of our holy prophets from 'Moses to Mohammad P.B.U.H)' to name a few, had voiced their opinion against the tyrannical government of their times. They rebelled, stood up for their ideologies, migrated and were punished. In present also, compare the progress of nations which have enjoyed the fruits of democracy for the longest and nation like Cuba, Burma, Libya or Pakistan.... If one studies history of Pakistan and calculate the time military dictators acquired to correct the vices created by civilian elected leaders and the time given to any elected govt. for the same task (good governess), the results will speak for themselves. As far as I remember Pakistan was at its prime when Z.A Bhutto was completing his first tenure. But the moment he turned from a democratic leader to dictator, a General came along with religious parties and bulldozed his elected govt. with the promise of election in 90 days. These General have a great track record of breaking their promises and naive people like you still believe them.
Please open up your mind! If people of NWFP and Balochistan want 'Taliban' kind of government why not give them their right to choose? If people of interior Sindh and some areas of urban Sindh want to vote against ruling Musharraf’s allies, let them. How can one even think of 'freedom and fairness' with major opposition locked up inside and their supporters are curbed even to voice their support. Pakistan is not the property of Musharraf and his allies. Among millions of voters even if a single soul is against Musharraf he has a right to express his opinion or else a frustrated, oppressed, powerless person will arm himself with artillery of any kind and there will be more suicide bombings more terrorism as ‘violence only breed violence’.
In lurking darkness and surmounting depression I still found myself hoping and struggling and hoping.
“Lazim hai ke hum bhee deikhein ge, who din ke jis ka waada hai, jo lohe azal pe likha hai.”
Nikhat Riaz
You have an opinion and have a right to express and dears that’s what we need to see in Pakistan. I am a Pakistani citizen too and just want to exercise my basic human right ‘freedom of expression’. When no one is allowed to point fingers to ‘Musharraf’ and his sacred ‘allies’ how they could enjoy the same? Who has given them this unquestionable authority to do whatever ‘they’ think is right and legitimate in every sense (certainly not the ‘Pakistani Awam’), without giving the fair chance to other Pakistanis to prove their innocence?
If media was portraying ‘one sided' and ‘Negative’ stories according to you guys so what's the big deal? What about the state controlled channels and news papers which had been the perpetrators of the same crime since ages? The only difference is that that worked for state not against it. If anchors like Dr Shahid, Talat Hussain, Nusrat Javaid, Kamran Abbasi etc are so annoying to you just switch off the channel or just turn to P.T.V. to listen to your kind of stuff. Why so much afraid of the 'other side of story'. And don't talk about CNN or BBC that they also follow code of conduct. If they had been guilty of the same crime, people like 'Michael Moore' and 'George Galloway' would have been arrested long time back. The lies, the propaganda, airing state crimes in explicit way (which is another lie) for which 'Geo and ARY’ were considereds responsible, were far less than P.T.V.’s "Zulm kee Dastan" televised in Zia-ul-Haq's regime which was totally one sided and graphic at the same time. But that was O.K as that's what “they” wanted. It was not long ago when we were tortured by only one version of Ptv and when the opposition, now ruling party of Karachi used to lament that their side of story was never showed or was always twisted. What Pervaiz Musharraf did in the name of 'code of conduct' to some private channels is clearly depicting the true face of his masqueraded democratic reign and the reality of the credit of 'free media’ that he always was so pompous about has surfaced.
If civilian regimes and our leaders ( 'Benazir' and 'Nawaz Sharif') had not come up to the expectation of Pakistani people and have ruined the country that too in no way permits our holy army to cross their boundary and rob the rights of people of Pakistan to choose and express their opinion. Actually we were never given a chance to continue electing and rejecting our leaders and to roll the process for churning new leadership because of our greedy army Generals. Our civilian leaders from the beginning have paved the way for army to protect their regime and in return army after obliging them attempted never to have civilian rule again at all costs. Both are culprits but we still believe in the only fine system of governess in the world which is for the people, of the people and by the people. Why go far just peep in the neighboring country India. Their leaders are not angels and suffer with the plague of corruption too but the process of democracy in its worst form kept on progressing and was never hijacked by their "border saviors". The institutions gradually had taken their strength and still growing. It is a process, the democracy a system for which we are fighting. The prerequisite of democracy which according to you is ‘literacy’ is the natural outcome of this system and not the excuse for martial law.
Because of sustained, programmed and planned propaganda by our military dictators against the civilian elected leaders and against the power of democracy young people like you have given hope for democracy in Pakistan. Remember dictatorship or fascism only works for you as long it is favors you. Had people with your kind of approach were right the human race would never have achieved the progress or development of any sort, the examples you could get from past and present. In past all of our holy prophets from 'Moses to Mohammad P.B.U.H)' to name a few, had voiced their opinion against the tyrannical government of their times. They rebelled, stood up for their ideologies, migrated and were punished. In present also, compare the progress of nations which have enjoyed the fruits of democracy for the longest and nation like Cuba, Burma, Libya or Pakistan.... If one studies history of Pakistan and calculate the time military dictators acquired to correct the vices created by civilian elected leaders and the time given to any elected govt. for the same task (good governess), the results will speak for themselves. As far as I remember Pakistan was at its prime when Z.A Bhutto was completing his first tenure. But the moment he turned from a democratic leader to dictator, a General came along with religious parties and bulldozed his elected govt. with the promise of election in 90 days. These General have a great track record of breaking their promises and naive people like you still believe them.
Please open up your mind! If people of NWFP and Balochistan want 'Taliban' kind of government why not give them their right to choose? If people of interior Sindh and some areas of urban Sindh want to vote against ruling Musharraf’s allies, let them. How can one even think of 'freedom and fairness' with major opposition locked up inside and their supporters are curbed even to voice their support. Pakistan is not the property of Musharraf and his allies. Among millions of voters even if a single soul is against Musharraf he has a right to express his opinion or else a frustrated, oppressed, powerless person will arm himself with artillery of any kind and there will be more suicide bombings more terrorism as ‘violence only breed violence’.
In lurking darkness and surmounting depression I still found myself hoping and struggling and hoping.
“Lazim hai ke hum bhee deikhein ge, who din ke jis ka waada hai, jo lohe azal pe likha hai.”
Nikhat Riaz
#136 Posted by khanan on November 19, 2007 12:53:41 pm
Dear Salman, I agree with your opinion & writing. The media worked like a running commentary for the politicians (whenever i switch on TV i saw only one topic of “discussing politic”. People like Dr. Shahid & Talat etc! they gives nothing but despise & hopelessness. There are millions of social problems in our country but they least bother about them. They are sitting there to make greedy lawyers & corrupt judges heroes. How many Lawyers are helping poor to follow & help in their court cases? How many judges helped poor to sort out their cases at the fastest pace? Poor soul will die in making trips to court.Musharaf is the right man & he is doing the best. Atleast he is not corrupt like BB & Nawaz. Did BB says sorry what she has done to our country by her loot & plunder nor did Nawaz shaif.
#135 Posted by rashid_s on November 6, 2007 7:22:46 pm
Sorry I am late.
I do not have a name but suggest a methodology for Pakistanis to adopt:
Let all the aspirants for the leadership of the country walk, unprotected by the security on the main street. Those who are not stabbed or shot down, move to another major city and so on. If there is any body left he/she should become the leader.
The process can be repeated with the next lot till you find one that is not killed.
In the final analyses the Pakistanis must decide freely
Rashid
I do not have a name but suggest a methodology for Pakistanis to adopt:
Let all the aspirants for the leadership of the country walk, unprotected by the security on the main street. Those who are not stabbed or shot down, move to another major city and so on. If there is any body left he/she should become the leader.
The process can be repeated with the next lot till you find one that is not killed.
In the final analyses the Pakistanis must decide freely
Rashid
#134 Posted by bowman on November 6, 2007 3:54:44 pm
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#133 Posted by smartsyco on November 6, 2007 3:52:03 am
no wonder musharaf has done much development if we compare him to baynazir or nawazsharif he has done alot.But one thing which none of the muslim can bear is he has accepted each and every order by BUSH ... that is what hurt a common pakistani a common muslim ... now there is one of my street fellow he does job with the cnn senior reporter in pakistan and he was saying that there is some signal against musharaf from america next coming days are gonna be tough for musharaf and i will appreciate him if kicks the a$$ of america and keep it as it is going because america wasn't in favour of emergency americans were willing to put baynazir as a cheifminister of pakistan ...
i will be so much delighted if musharaf goes against america atleast for once in his life
i will be so much delighted if musharaf goes against america atleast for once in his life
#132 Posted by harish_hyd on November 6, 2007 3:04:59 am
And do we take it as your inferiority complex screaming out loud when you bragged about how Indian women love handsome Paki men like you and how you used to beat up Hindu boys? Hahahaha!!
#131 Posted by Zyxius on November 6, 2007 3:00:23 am
Oh I'm not annoyed by you guys at all....I'm just amazed at how much time you guys dedicate to this thing and how fanatically you enjoy what you think you are achieving. Please knock yourself out and post all you like it only serves to re-enforce my point that you guys are a bunch of losers with too much time on their hands.
BTW Jayp, I never mentioned color and didnt even think it when I wrote my post but your inferiority complex did come out in your jumping to conclusions.
Have fun piss-drinkers keep on posting!
BTW Jayp, I never mentioned color and didnt even think it when I wrote my post but your inferiority complex did come out in your jumping to conclusions.
Have fun piss-drinkers keep on posting!
#130 Posted by jayp on November 6, 2007 2:29:32 am
Xyxious,
Good to see that you are annoyed with my posts. You are new to chowk and this is good old pakibashing.
You are being humiliated by the yanks, beheaded by the tribals, blasted by the jihadis and you come to chowk for some RR and you all get bashed again.
Keep coming...you have no where else to go. No TV, no phones, no news papaers...how long can you watch the same old mushy.
Sorry, we have to do our job till the mosntrocity is dead. It will be dismembered again, this time into three.
Good to see that you are annoyed with my posts. You are new to chowk and this is good old pakibashing.
You are being humiliated by the yanks, beheaded by the tribals, blasted by the jihadis and you come to chowk for some RR and you all get bashed again.
Keep coming...you have no where else to go. No TV, no phones, no news papaers...how long can you watch the same old mushy.
Sorry, we have to do our job till the mosntrocity is dead. It will be dismembered again, this time into three.
#129 Posted by jayp on November 6, 2007 1:44:59 am
Thanks Xyxious,
The interacts on thsi board has gone for too long with out some pakistani mentioning that pakis are fairer skinned and hence superior.
That is also the basis that the pakis are slaves to the US because they have fairer coulored skin than the pakis.
Admitting that indians are better is hard for the pakis, probably the same colour complex is the reason for saluting the chinese as well. Do not forget that the lal majid happened because some of the chinese brothel operators were captured by the mullahs. Again it must the skin rule that prompted the pakis to act.
Thank you Xyxious, you are a true follower of jinnah.
The interacts on thsi board has gone for too long with out some pakistani mentioning that pakis are fairer skinned and hence superior.
That is also the basis that the pakis are slaves to the US because they have fairer coulored skin than the pakis.
Admitting that indians are better is hard for the pakis, probably the same colour complex is the reason for saluting the chinese as well. Do not forget that the lal majid happened because some of the chinese brothel operators were captured by the mullahs. Again it must the skin rule that prompted the pakis to act.
Thank you Xyxious, you are a true follower of jinnah.
#128 Posted by Vaaiz on November 6, 2007 1:13:35 am
He He He ... sorry zyxius... I never meant to hurt you baby.... Now.... nobody will trouble zyxius.... do you hear me... nobody !!!
#127 Posted by harish_hyd on November 6, 2007 1:09:37 am
#126 by Zyxius
Honest truth: when the Babri masjid was demolished in India, my friends and I all beat up almost every Hindu in school.
OK, it is now confirmed - mian Zyxius has some serious issues. He sees RAW agents under his bed, Indian women love handsome Paki men like him and he and his friends beat up Hindu boys. OK meray bhai, we all accept that you're Allah's gift to Pakistan and the Ummah. Your mom must be proud of you, no?
Honest truth: when the Babri masjid was demolished in India, my friends and I all beat up almost every Hindu in school.
OK, it is now confirmed - mian Zyxius has some serious issues. He sees RAW agents under his bed, Indian women love handsome Paki men like him and he and his friends beat up Hindu boys. OK meray bhai, we all accept that you're Allah's gift to Pakistan and the Ummah. Your mom must be proud of you, no?
#126 Posted by Zyxius on November 6, 2007 1:02:35 am
Very original. Bet you'll be using that for a while here.
Growing up in Dubai, I always enjoyed kicking the crap out of the Hindu kids in school. Honest truth: when the Babri masjid was demolished in India, my friends and I all beat up almost every Hindu in school. I'll bet Harish is one of those kids who had the crap kicked out of him by some our of Paki boys and now holds it against all of us for the rest of his life.
What a loser! See you man...I have some work to do now and my quota is more than done for a while. I'm sure you're going to be around for a while fighting with every one of us enemies of Ma Bharat. If you ever get tired of this and need to make a buck to get by, I can honestly hook you up with a job as a janitor in Dubai...let me know.
Growing up in Dubai, I always enjoyed kicking the crap out of the Hindu kids in school. Honest truth: when the Babri masjid was demolished in India, my friends and I all beat up almost every Hindu in school. I'll bet Harish is one of those kids who had the crap kicked out of him by some our of Paki boys and now holds it against all of us for the rest of his life.
What a loser! See you man...I have some work to do now and my quota is more than done for a while. I'm sure you're going to be around for a while fighting with every one of us enemies of Ma Bharat. If you ever get tired of this and need to make a buck to get by, I can honestly hook you up with a job as a janitor in Dubai...let me know.
#125 Posted by Vaaiz on November 6, 2007 1:00:41 am
I'm sorry zyxius you simply can not understand what is the true meaning of nationality.
And its not your fault; you education never gave you that insight. For you it was always Inslam against the rest of the world.
Its not about Hindus and Muslims jhonny boy, its about Pakistan and India. A muslim in India will always be an Indian and will never undergo misery which your compatriots (do you understand that?)go. Look at what your fellow muslim dictator has subjected you to. He is not a hindu or is he?
And its not your fault; you education never gave you that insight. For you it was always Inslam against the rest of the world.
Its not about Hindus and Muslims jhonny boy, its about Pakistan and India. A muslim in India will always be an Indian and will never undergo misery which your compatriots (do you understand that?)go. Look at what your fellow muslim dictator has subjected you to. He is not a hindu or is he?
#124 Posted by harish_hyd on November 6, 2007 12:56:12 am
#123 by Zyxius
Man, you seem to have serious issues. Get some help before it is too late. Regarding your looks, is that another of those things that you brag about to compensate for your inadequacies? Please do something about it.
Man, you seem to have serious issues. Get some help before it is too late. Regarding your looks, is that another of those things that you brag about to compensate for your inadequacies? Please do something about it.
#123 Posted by Zyxius on November 6, 2007 12:52:42 am
BTW, on every trip to India that I have ever been on I have experienced that Indian women prefer Pakistani men because they find our language and culture to be very attractive. You will notice that most of the top actors in Bollywood are Muslims. Finally, the Muslims are also a major factor in everything that India can claim to boast about. So I dont know what you Hindu fanatics are on about, even in India, Muslims are there at the top in every field. You guys are just pissed off because the BJP and others fanatics have brain washed you into thinking that Pakistan and Pakistanis are the enemy. Get on with your life, seek some counseling,get a job and contribute to your country in a more meaningful way than bitching about others on the net.
#122 Posted by harish_hyd on November 6, 2007 12:51:37 am
#121 by Zyxius
Yes Harish, we'll learn how to use our time wisely from a loser wannabe RAW agent like you who spends his days fighting the Pakistanis on the net.
Umm..OK, so do also you have trouble sleeping at nights imagining RAW agents all over your bedroom?
Yes Harish, we'll learn how to use our time wisely from a loser wannabe RAW agent like you who spends his days fighting the Pakistanis on the net.
Umm..OK, so do also you have trouble sleeping at nights imagining RAW agents all over your bedroom?
#121 Posted by Zyxius on November 6, 2007 12:44:02 am
"Bear in mind, you can not get rid of us. This is just the beginning; we will be always there at every fall of yours at every drop of your blood oozing out, till you breathe your last sigh."
Vaaiz...thats pretty twisted man you may want to seek some psychological help for those issues, it simply aint normal no matter how much you compare it to crowds accumulating to watch accidents. Also, I understand its your religion but you may want to cut down on the cow urine...it is toxic after all and it may be affecting your mental health.
"And if only you guys got off your behinds and did something worthwhile to resist the tinpot dictators who've ruled you for the better part of 60 years, you would have had democracy by now."
Yes Harish, we'll learn how to use our time wisely from a loser wannabe RAW agent like you who spends his days fighting the Pakistanis on the net.
Ranjit, guys like you are always welcome who just want to discuss properly but you have to understand my point of view about this bunch of morons who seem to have dedicated their lives to....I'm not sure what their purpose is actually.
Vaaiz...thats pretty twisted man you may want to seek some psychological help for those issues, it simply aint normal no matter how much you compare it to crowds accumulating to watch accidents. Also, I understand its your religion but you may want to cut down on the cow urine...it is toxic after all and it may be affecting your mental health.
"And if only you guys got off your behinds and did something worthwhile to resist the tinpot dictators who've ruled you for the better part of 60 years, you would have had democracy by now."
Yes Harish, we'll learn how to use our time wisely from a loser wannabe RAW agent like you who spends his days fighting the Pakistanis on the net.
Ranjit, guys like you are always welcome who just want to discuss properly but you have to understand my point of view about this bunch of morons who seem to have dedicated their lives to....I'm not sure what their purpose is actually.
#120 Posted by harish_hyd on November 6, 2007 12:37:45 am
#118 by Vaaiz
Oh yes… about that ‘if we merge we will rule you’ bravado - better learn to rule yourself mate
Everytime Pakis brags about ruling India for 800 years, you can understand where they're coming from. Having endured 60 years of slavery under various dictators, they have only one place to vent their impotent rage, basking in the glory of their forefathers rule over Hindus. This makes them feel less inadequate.
Oh yes… about that ‘if we merge we will rule you’ bravado - better learn to rule yourself mate
Everytime Pakis brags about ruling India for 800 years, you can understand where they're coming from. Having endured 60 years of slavery under various dictators, they have only one place to vent their impotent rage, basking in the glory of their forefathers rule over Hindus. This makes them feel less inadequate.
#119 Posted by harish_hyd on November 6, 2007 12:34:06 am
#114 by Zyxius
Maybe if you call in sick and take another 3 days off work you can deliver more of your deadly stinging posts to the tamil forums and wreak havoc among Ma Bharat’s enemies. Yes Harish, you should do it…..Bhagwan needs you! If only more Indians took time off their daily lives to conquer the nation’s enemies on the net.
And if only you guys got off your behinds and did something worthwhile to resist the tinpot dictators who've ruled you for the better part of 60 years, you would have had democracy by now. Even tiny Nepal fought off the monarchy but you have shown that you simply lack the testicular fortitude for a fight. All you can brag about is Muslim rule over India, when the fact is that your Muslim forefathers toiled as much like slaves as my Hindu forefathers did.
PS: so when are the Sikhs joining you to finish us off? LOL!
Maybe if you call in sick and take another 3 days off work you can deliver more of your deadly stinging posts to the tamil forums and wreak havoc among Ma Bharat’s enemies. Yes Harish, you should do it…..Bhagwan needs you! If only more Indians took time off their daily lives to conquer the nation’s enemies on the net.
And if only you guys got off your behinds and did something worthwhile to resist the tinpot dictators who've ruled you for the better part of 60 years, you would have had democracy by now. Even tiny Nepal fought off the monarchy but you have shown that you simply lack the testicular fortitude for a fight. All you can brag about is Muslim rule over India, when the fact is that your Muslim forefathers toiled as much like slaves as my Hindu forefathers did.
PS: so when are the Sikhs joining you to finish us off? LOL!
#118 Posted by Vaaiz on November 6, 2007 12:27:02 am
Dear Mr. Zyxius
I am truly amused at your naivety. In the real world how can you expect that people will close their eyes when you fall.
When you fall they laugh, when you bleed they cheer, when you die they rejoice, it’s the most innate instinct of any animal to be silently thrilled by else’s plight. And that is exactly what we are doing. If you still are not getting it we are enjoying the decadence of Pakistan as a civil society and a nation. Bear in mind, you can not get rid of us. This is just the beginning; we will be always there at every fall of yours at every drop of your blood oozing out, till you breathe your last sigh.
Oh yes… about that ‘if we merge we will rule you’ bravado - better learn to rule yourself mate.. you need to implement your skills in your home first then dream of others. We are well off without your expertise in ruling.
And about our one billion ‘wriggling in dirt’ hungry poor, yes we know they exist but your well fed madarsa goers bother us more that our own hungry poor.
I am truly amused at your naivety. In the real world how can you expect that people will close their eyes when you fall.
When you fall they laugh, when you bleed they cheer, when you die they rejoice, it’s the most innate instinct of any animal to be silently thrilled by else’s plight. And that is exactly what we are doing. If you still are not getting it we are enjoying the decadence of Pakistan as a civil society and a nation. Bear in mind, you can not get rid of us. This is just the beginning; we will be always there at every fall of yours at every drop of your blood oozing out, till you breathe your last sigh.
Oh yes… about that ‘if we merge we will rule you’ bravado - better learn to rule yourself mate.. you need to implement your skills in your home first then dream of others. We are well off without your expertise in ruling.
And about our one billion ‘wriggling in dirt’ hungry poor, yes we know they exist but your well fed madarsa goers bother us more that our own hungry poor.
#117 Posted by harish_hyd on November 6, 2007 12:25:13 am
#114 by Zyxius
Your mission to be the disruptive element in a Pakistani forum has been thoroughly accomplished.
Pakistani forum? Umm...OK, so in apart to bringing martial law to Pakistan, you are now trying to bring it on to cyberspace as well? LoL!
Your mission to be the disruptive element in a Pakistani forum has been thoroughly accomplished.
Pakistani forum? Umm...OK, so in apart to bringing martial law to Pakistan, you are now trying to bring it on to cyberspace as well? LoL!
#116 Posted by Ranjit on November 6, 2007 12:19:23 am
Yaar Zyxius, take it easy!! Paki politics is so interesting compared to the boring, mundane stuff in new delhi, that we injuns are fascinated by it. Where else do you see so much dhishum dhishum, melodrama, rape, violence, emotional roller coasters? Its far better than a zee tv serial yaar!! Just like you guys cant keep your hands off from bollywood, we cant keep our hands off from commenting on your political nautankis!! Cheers!!
#115 Posted by zeemax on November 6, 2007 12:14:09 am
#106 Posted by Zyxius ...
..maybe you'll get a job as someone's janitor in Dubai...
Or if not that, then surely either a doorman in Manhattan, or a bed-bug mattress shaker in Penn.
..maybe you'll get a job as someone's janitor in Dubai...
Or if not that, then surely either a doorman in Manhattan, or a bed-bug mattress shaker in Penn.
#114 Posted by Zyxius on November 5, 2007 11:35:47 pm
My God Harish, you have been brutal in your assault on us. Your words have not only left me demoralized, but have brought shame upon Pakistan. Your mission to be the disruptive element in a Pakistani forum has been thoroughly accomplished. You can now scurry on along to your next RAW mission.
Maybe if you call in sick and take another 3 days off work you can deliver more of your deadly stinging posts to the tamil forums and wreak havoc among Ma Bharat’s enemies. Yes Harish, you should do it…..Bhagwan needs you! If only more Indians took time off their daily lives to conquer the nation’s enemies on the net.
Maybe if you call in sick and take another 3 days off work you can deliver more of your deadly stinging posts to the tamil forums and wreak havoc among Ma Bharat’s enemies. Yes Harish, you should do it…..Bhagwan needs you! If only more Indians took time off their daily lives to conquer the nation’s enemies on the net.
#113 Posted by harish_hyd on November 5, 2007 11:01:51 pm
#111 by Zyxius
Zyxius mian, fact is that your country is looked upon as the terrorist haven. Just a couple of days back some State Department official said Pakistan makes Iraq look better. You have done a great job of ruining your country and bringing it to such a pass.
The rest of your "mine is bigger than yours" exercise is irrelevant and best ignored. If you can, do something to bring back democracy to Pakistan. Or just flail your arms and whine as some are doing. Or better still, be an apologist for Mushy as you're doing now, some crumbs may come your way. Good luck!
Zyxius mian, fact is that your country is looked upon as the terrorist haven. Just a couple of days back some State Department official said Pakistan makes Iraq look better. You have done a great job of ruining your country and bringing it to such a pass.
The rest of your "mine is bigger than yours" exercise is irrelevant and best ignored. If you can, do something to bring back democracy to Pakistan. Or just flail your arms and whine as some are doing. Or better still, be an apologist for Mushy as you're doing now, some crumbs may come your way. Good luck!
#112 Posted by Zyxius on November 5, 2007 10:59:45 pm
I think this has degenerated enough. I suggest if you Hindus want to discuss things in a forum such as this, keep your anti-Pakistan sentiments and agenda to yourself or screw off and spend your time in some forum more relevant to your own life.
#111 Posted by Zyxius on November 5, 2007 10:53:21 pm
"And guess who were the ones who were the first ones raped after invaders crossed the Khyber? Today just because you converted, you brag about being from the conqueror's race..."
Oh no Harish....you really got me and my feelings a hurt. You went back into hundreds of years into our history and discovered the bastard roots of this nation....oh no! Meanwhile, the piss drinkers were the bold and the beautiful who resisted and still remain true to their piss drinking heritage....they have not been conquered by anyone....yes no? You probably have too much time on your hands so I will simply leave you with a few things;
Invasion from Khyber is not the only way the sub-continent became Muslim. Mohammad Bin Qasem landed in Sindh and kicked Raja Daher's ass after which Islam spread mostly by the scholars and sufis. The Islamic administration had a policy of setting up the governing infrastructure and leaving conversion and preaching to the religious class. The Hindus living in the southern part of what is now Pakistan and parts of India converted in this way.
So you can take your BJP curriculum history and stuff it up your a$$.
"And if Pakistan had been full of hot-air blowers like you, we would have in fact gloated at Pakistan's plight today. Fact is, we can't."
You cant gloat over Pakistan's woes because you have enough of your own. Drive around Bombay or Delhi and tell me that you don't have worst conditions for the poor than Pakistan could ever be accused of. The Indian economic success is only for a small segment and that by the way includes a large contingent of Muslims...whom you say have bastard roots, while you piss drinkers belong to the pure race of Shiva Krishna Bagofdoodoo. `
"You already did that, didn't you?"
No...you Hindus are the ones known for worshipping almost everything from cows to monkeys to penis shaped rocks. Wouldn't be surprised if you start calling your conquerers your gods.
"Are you always this deluded or do you speak like this only when you're high on something?"
Our diets don't consist of Bovine Urea so we're pretty clear headed here, dunno about you though. Did you say you had a job?
Oh no Harish....you really got me and my feelings a hurt. You went back into hundreds of years into our history and discovered the bastard roots of this nation....oh no! Meanwhile, the piss drinkers were the bold and the beautiful who resisted and still remain true to their piss drinking heritage....they have not been conquered by anyone....yes no? You probably have too much time on your hands so I will simply leave you with a few things;
Invasion from Khyber is not the only way the sub-continent became Muslim. Mohammad Bin Qasem landed in Sindh and kicked Raja Daher's ass after which Islam spread mostly by the scholars and sufis. The Islamic administration had a policy of setting up the governing infrastructure and leaving conversion and preaching to the religious class. The Hindus living in the southern part of what is now Pakistan and parts of India converted in this way.
So you can take your BJP curriculum history and stuff it up your a$$.
"And if Pakistan had been full of hot-air blowers like you, we would have in fact gloated at Pakistan's plight today. Fact is, we can't."
You cant gloat over Pakistan's woes because you have enough of your own. Drive around Bombay or Delhi and tell me that you don't have worst conditions for the poor than Pakistan could ever be accused of. The Indian economic success is only for a small segment and that by the way includes a large contingent of Muslims...whom you say have bastard roots, while you piss drinkers belong to the pure race of Shiva Krishna Bagofdoodoo. `
"You already did that, didn't you?"
No...you Hindus are the ones known for worshipping almost everything from cows to monkeys to penis shaped rocks. Wouldn't be surprised if you start calling your conquerers your gods.
"Are you always this deluded or do you speak like this only when you're high on something?"
Our diets don't consist of Bovine Urea so we're pretty clear headed here, dunno about you though. Did you say you had a job?
#110 Posted by harish_hyd on November 5, 2007 10:24:44 pm
#108 by Zyxius
...you guys are a nation of piss drinkers who have almost always been ruled by others.
And guess who were the ones who were the first ones raped after invaders crossed the Khyber? Today just because you converted, you brag about being from the conqueror's race while forgetting the fact that your ancestors were Hindus who bore the brunt of the invader's force (and lust) and perhaps converted by force (does your great grandpa even know who his father was? I doubt.). You were the ones subdued and forced into adopting an alien religion and now you brag that your tormentors' deeds were your own? Is this what they call the Stockholm Syndrome?
Listen, one thing should be clear to you is that you hindus do not want anything bad to happen to Pakistan cause a united India would probably mean that you little wimps would be ruled by us again...the brits are gone...
Had it not been for the average Paki (who probably isn't very different from an average human being anywhere, hardworking and decent), we couldn't care less about what happens to Pakistan. And if Pakistan had been full of hot-air blowers like you, we would have in fact gloated at Pakistan's plight today. Fact is, we can't.
but you losers always worship that which can harm you and that which can benefit you.
You already did that, didn't you?
The Sikhs will probably join us in kicking your ass...so you may as well keep your mouth shut and go back to Calcutta and enjoy what you have there instead of coming here to bark at us
Sure..the Sikhs will join you like they did in 1947. Are you always this deluded or do you speak like this only when you're high on something?
...you guys are a nation of piss drinkers who have almost always been ruled by others.
And guess who were the ones who were the first ones raped after invaders crossed the Khyber? Today just because you converted, you brag about being from the conqueror's race while forgetting the fact that your ancestors were Hindus who bore the brunt of the invader's force (and lust) and perhaps converted by force (does your great grandpa even know who his father was? I doubt.). You were the ones subdued and forced into adopting an alien religion and now you brag that your tormentors' deeds were your own? Is this what they call the Stockholm Syndrome?
Listen, one thing should be clear to you is that you hindus do not want anything bad to happen to Pakistan cause a united India would probably mean that you little wimps would be ruled by us again...the brits are gone...
Had it not been for the average Paki (who probably isn't very different from an average human being anywhere, hardworking and decent), we couldn't care less about what happens to Pakistan. And if Pakistan had been full of hot-air blowers like you, we would have in fact gloated at Pakistan's plight today. Fact is, we can't.
but you losers always worship that which can harm you and that which can benefit you.
You already did that, didn't you?
The Sikhs will probably join us in kicking your ass...so you may as well keep your mouth shut and go back to Calcutta and enjoy what you have there instead of coming here to bark at us
Sure..the Sikhs will join you like they did in 1947. Are you always this deluded or do you speak like this only when you're high on something?
#109 Posted by majumdar on November 5, 2007 9:53:39 pm
Zyxius,
(cause a united India would probably mean that you little wimps would be ruled by us again...)
You are right on this count. And for that reason I can only hope and pray that Pakistan and B'desh remain separate entities.
(how do you like to take your cow piss? With a little yogurt or on the rocks?)
Don't take so dunno. Btw how do you like your Phosphorus, white or red?
Regards
(cause a united India would probably mean that you little wimps would be ruled by us again...)
You are right on this count. And for that reason I can only hope and pray that Pakistan and B'desh remain separate entities.
(how do you like to take your cow piss? With a little yogurt or on the rocks?)
Don't take so dunno. Btw how do you like your Phosphorus, white or red?
Regards
#108 Posted by Zyxius on November 5, 2007 9:40:00 pm
Harish...thats just stupid. You are using this as a defense for your drinking cow piss? We awarded some honor to one of you piss drinkers? Thats it? So what if we gave a medal to a piss drinker...you guys are a nation of piss drinkers who have almost always been ruled by others.
I once asked a seemingly highly intelligent Hindu classmate of mine at Uni once about cow piss. He replied, quite matter of factly, that "its actually just a little piss mixed with yogurt...its not that bad." So tell me Harish....how do you like to take your cow piss? With a little yogurt or on the rocks?
Listen, one thing should be clear to you is that you hindus do not want anything bad to happen to Pakistan cause a united India would probably mean that you little wimps would be ruled by us again...the brits are gone...but you losers always worship that which can harm you and that which can benefit you. The Sikhs will probably join us in kicking your ass...so you may as well keep your mouth shut and go back to Calcutta and enjoy what you have there instead of coming here to bark at us.
I once asked a seemingly highly intelligent Hindu classmate of mine at Uni once about cow piss. He replied, quite matter of factly, that "its actually just a little piss mixed with yogurt...its not that bad." So tell me Harish....how do you like to take your cow piss? With a little yogurt or on the rocks?
Listen, one thing should be clear to you is that you hindus do not want anything bad to happen to Pakistan cause a united India would probably mean that you little wimps would be ruled by us again...the brits are gone...but you losers always worship that which can harm you and that which can benefit you. The Sikhs will probably join us in kicking your ass...so you may as well keep your mouth shut and go back to Calcutta and enjoy what you have there instead of coming here to bark at us.
#107 Posted by harish_hyd on November 5, 2007 9:31:02 pm
#105 by Zyxius
#102...um excuse me...Mr Hindu dude...but you drink cow piss and worship a dumb animal and you think we're the freak show? You really are a bunch of twisted mo fos!
Umm..the last piss drinker in India was awarded the Nishan-e-Pakistan (or something like that), so maybe you guys admire piss drinkers to the point you award them your country's highest civilian award. And you probably are even bigger piss-drinkers (so what if it is camel-piss?) but are too ashamed to admit it.
#102...um excuse me...Mr Hindu dude...but you drink cow piss and worship a dumb animal and you think we're the freak show? You really are a bunch of twisted mo fos!
Umm..the last piss drinker in India was awarded the Nishan-e-Pakistan (or something like that), so maybe you guys admire piss drinkers to the point you award them your country's highest civilian award. And you probably are even bigger piss-drinkers (so what if it is camel-piss?) but are too ashamed to admit it.
#106 Posted by Zyxius on November 5, 2007 9:30:12 pm
Go the the Ganjees to see a freak show! Go to any Hindu temple to watch them pray to a friggin stone monkey with 8 arms!!! You often notice these foreigners with video cameras watching you hindus perform your deeds as if you were some exotic animal on the Nat Geo programs. Its funny that you guys hate us so much that you would rather spend your time here posting bs than anything else that anyone with a life would ordinarily be doing. It makes sense that us Pakis are here to discuss the issue since it has big affect on our lives....but you really really need to get a life. Hey, ask "Hanuman" or one of the monkey Gods to help you out and maybe you'll get a job as someone's janitor in Dubai.
#105 Posted by Zyxius on November 5, 2007 9:25:54 pm
#102...um excuse me...Mr Hindu dude...but you drink cow piss and worship a dumb animal and you think we're the freak show? You really are a bunch of twisted mo fos!
#104 Posted by Ras on November 5, 2007 7:39:08 pm
For those interested in what is going on and missed this:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/july-dec07/pakistan_11-05.html
#103 Posted by wd40xps on November 5, 2007 2:42:55 pm
Bibi BB says she wants to save her nation.
What happened to all the alpha males in Pakistan? Have they all lost their masculinity?
Sab hijray ban kar baith gayey hain kyaa?
What happened to all the alpha males in Pakistan? Have they all lost their masculinity?
Sab hijray ban kar baith gayey hain kyaa?
#102 Posted by mohar11 on November 5, 2007 2:00:20 pm
Re: # 96
Uh-uh... another paki with tail on fire :)....
We hinuds are here for the freak-show: it's pure entertainment to see pakis making fools of themselves... so just do your dance... wah, wah, very good, very good, here are s couple bucks for you Miss Zyxius.... Have a good Marshall Law party... :)
Uh-uh... another paki with tail on fire :)....
We hinuds are here for the freak-show: it's pure entertainment to see pakis making fools of themselves... so just do your dance... wah, wah, very good, very good, here are s couple bucks for you Miss Zyxius.... Have a good Marshall Law party... :)
#101 Posted by viqarm on November 5, 2007 12:30:54 pm
Re: # 95 Ras
"I see that a number of people here are busy attacking Benazir instead of highlighting this strange development.
BB is the necessary element to bring back the moderates into the Pakistani political mainstream".
I think it can be equally legitimately said that some people (yourself included) are more interested in promoting the Bhuttos (of select variety only)than focusing on the events.
I can only conclude that if someone is not enamored of the princess and her "noble" father, he/she is automatically outside the pale of "moderates" of Pakistan.
"I see that a number of people here are busy attacking Benazir instead of highlighting this strange development.
BB is the necessary element to bring back the moderates into the Pakistani political mainstream".
I think it can be equally legitimately said that some people (yourself included) are more interested in promoting the Bhuttos (of select variety only)than focusing on the events.
I can only conclude that if someone is not enamored of the princess and her "noble" father, he/she is automatically outside the pale of "moderates" of Pakistan.
#100 Posted by wd40xps on November 5, 2007 12:08:44 pm
Reading the full text of Musharraf's address to the nation, one cannot help but sympathise with the president and give full support to him from saving Pakistan from its self destruction.
He may have violated the constitution. So what? Where is the greater good under the present circumstances? The opposition fuels fire for their own selfish gains.
The justice department is not at fault if it declares Musharraf's election unconstitutional. We must raise our hats to the Supreme Court of Pakistan. At the same time the president is not at fault to declare the state of emergency to keep the crisis under control.
One must under the present circumstances look at the broader picture for the good of the country. What Musharraf cannot do as a president with the joint responsibility of the chief of the armed forces, that any of your past elected prime ministers or the ones vying for this job can do? Has he not brought Pakistan to prosperity? Has he not elevated Pakistan to a near superpower? What are the accomplishments of your previous prime ministers and presidents? Do they not pale in comparison to what Musharraf has done for Pakistan?
So what if he continues to be the president under the current deteriorating state of affairs? Can the opposition not wait for few more months/years to grab power? What plans do they have to bring peace and prosperity to Pakistan? I am sure Musharraf will listen to them.
People of Pakistan, wake up. And remember since 1947 when you got your independence, for how many years you had real democracy in Pakistan. You have to learn to be democratic to enjoy democracy.
Laton k bhoot baton se nahih maantay.
What Musharraf did was totally right under the present circumstances. Have patience. He does not care to give up his presidency. He does care for you and your nation.
Is there any body more qualified than him to lead you under these difficult times of unrest and terrorism? Bear with him. Look at your history since your independence, and learn something from it. Don't be a lakir k fakir in interpreting the the legality of his position. See what's good for your country.
President Musharraf, my warmest regards to you. And may Allah help you in preserving peace and sanity in Pakistan, even though you may intend to violate constitution, temporarily.
May Allah bless you!
He may have violated the constitution. So what? Where is the greater good under the present circumstances? The opposition fuels fire for their own selfish gains.
The justice department is not at fault if it declares Musharraf's election unconstitutional. We must raise our hats to the Supreme Court of Pakistan. At the same time the president is not at fault to declare the state of emergency to keep the crisis under control.
One must under the present circumstances look at the broader picture for the good of the country. What Musharraf cannot do as a president with the joint responsibility of the chief of the armed forces, that any of your past elected prime ministers or the ones vying for this job can do? Has he not brought Pakistan to prosperity? Has he not elevated Pakistan to a near superpower? What are the accomplishments of your previous prime ministers and presidents? Do they not pale in comparison to what Musharraf has done for Pakistan?
So what if he continues to be the president under the current deteriorating state of affairs? Can the opposition not wait for few more months/years to grab power? What plans do they have to bring peace and prosperity to Pakistan? I am sure Musharraf will listen to them.
People of Pakistan, wake up. And remember since 1947 when you got your independence, for how many years you had real democracy in Pakistan. You have to learn to be democratic to enjoy democracy.
Laton k bhoot baton se nahih maantay.
What Musharraf did was totally right under the present circumstances. Have patience. He does not care to give up his presidency. He does care for you and your nation.
Is there any body more qualified than him to lead you under these difficult times of unrest and terrorism? Bear with him. Look at your history since your independence, and learn something from it. Don't be a lakir k fakir in interpreting the the legality of his position. See what's good for your country.
President Musharraf, my warmest regards to you. And may Allah help you in preserving peace and sanity in Pakistan, even though you may intend to violate constitution, temporarily.
May Allah bless you!
#99 Posted by zeemax on November 5, 2007 12:02:13 pm
#96 Posted by Zyxius,
... help 'Ma Bharat' do something about its 300 million dirt-friggin poor!
err ... actually it is 700 million ...
... help 'Ma Bharat' do something about its 300 million dirt-friggin poor!
err ... actually it is 700 million ...
#97 Posted by Zyxius on November 5, 2007 11:29:31 am
And another thing...you friggin Hindus had better hope that Pakistan remains intact cause if we merge...you will have more than 300 million Muslims ruling your ass again!
#96 Posted by Zyxius on November 5, 2007 11:25:58 am
I find it amusing, yet objectionable that we have more Indians in this forum than Pakistanis. I suggest you guys get a life and go deal with your own problems instead of talking bullshit like jayp..."monstrosity that Jinnah created has to die a violent death"....just where the hell do you get off talking shit like that? You really need to get a life and realize that your posting on the net isnt going to make much of a difference so you may as well not spend the entire day here and go get yourself a job and help 'Ma Bharat' do something about its 300 million dirt-friggin poor!
Its really pathetic how a few loser hindu fanatics think they're making a difference with their posts. Seriously...whats this all about? Dont you guys have something to do?
Its really pathetic how a few loser hindu fanatics think they're making a difference with their posts. Seriously...whats this all about? Dont you guys have something to do?
#95 Posted by Ras on November 5, 2007 8:02:03 am
At the risk of repetition.......
While claiming to know less about the current situation
than hamidm's sprinkler guy, let me just add that this
emergency "crackdown' is troubling.
While Musharraf is claiming to confront the beards
and using them as an excuse for this emergency, the
people being arrested are the strong supporters of
democratic change.
The Pakistan Army needs to concentrate on targeting
people behind the suicide bombers, not the irritants
that want democratic change.
I see that a number of people here are busy attacking
Benazir instead of highlighting this strange development.
BB is the necessary element to bring back the moderates
into the Pakistani political mainstream.
The General has cornered himself and needs assistance to
fight against extremists. In that he has the support of
the PPP. But who exactly is he cracking down on?
Ras
#94 Posted by nasah on November 5, 2007 6:22:16 am
"The United States has suspended annual defense talks with Pakistan because of the political situation there, the Pentagon's spokesman said here Monday.
Eric Edelman, undersecretary of defense for policy, was supposed to head a US delegation for the talks beginning on Tuesday, but he will not go until political conditions improve, Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell told reporters.
Morrell is travelling with US Defence Secretary Robert Gates, who also on Monday called for Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf to return his country to a constitutional democracy as soon as possible."((AP)
And here -- the blundering buffoon thought there will be takers for his monumental stupidity -- because he is "so indispensable" for the US fight against terrorism!
Fighting terrorism by jailing more than 500 lawyers, judges, human rights activists!
What a cockamamie excuse! -- and the mushy wants the West to believe that fairy tale -- not for his purgative fear of losing his crummy cushy two jobs -- the greedy moron has a total meltdown of his mental faculties.
Eric Edelman, undersecretary of defense for policy, was supposed to head a US delegation for the talks beginning on Tuesday, but he will not go until political conditions improve, Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell told reporters.
Morrell is travelling with US Defence Secretary Robert Gates, who also on Monday called for Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf to return his country to a constitutional democracy as soon as possible."((AP)
And here -- the blundering buffoon thought there will be takers for his monumental stupidity -- because he is "so indispensable" for the US fight against terrorism!
Fighting terrorism by jailing more than 500 lawyers, judges, human rights activists!
What a cockamamie excuse! -- and the mushy wants the West to believe that fairy tale -- not for his purgative fear of losing his crummy cushy two jobs -- the greedy moron has a total meltdown of his mental faculties.
#93 Posted by Ranjit on November 5, 2007 5:16:25 am
Re:arjun7
"just like you became bulleya and fired romair.."
Hahahaha!! Arjun, dude, your wit is superb!!
"just like you became bulleya and fired romair.."
Hahahaha!! Arjun, dude, your wit is superb!!
#92 Posted by arjun7 on November 5, 2007 5:05:41 am
#85 Posted by bulleya on November 5, 2007 1:54:29 am
so the coas has fired the president
maybe the coas is trying to erase the memory of the embarrassing moments during his time as president..
just like you became bulleya and fired romair..of course, you've embarrassed yourself plenty as bulleya too..
so the coas has fired the president
maybe the coas is trying to erase the memory of the embarrassing moments during his time as president..
just like you became bulleya and fired romair..of course, you've embarrassed yourself plenty as bulleya too..
#91 Posted by hamidm2 on November 5, 2007 4:46:46 am
Re: # 85
romair,
.... why don't you go to the nearest police station to get some sense beaten into you .. and take masadi with you
romair,
.... why don't you go to the nearest police station to get some sense beaten into you .. and take masadi with you
#90 Posted by zeemax on November 5, 2007 4:06:37 am
Why Govt. didn’t submit evidences against those freed on court orders: Ramday
ISLAMABAD: Former Justice Khalilur Rahman Ramday has said that if such key players of terrorism were released on the court orders, then it means that the government didn’t provide the evidences.
Talking to Geo News, Justice Khalilur Rahman Ramday said that he was unable to understand as to why the blame of releasing terrorists was being put forth and added that if such key players of terrorism were released, then why did the government not come forward with evidences against them.
Justice Ramday said that both the judges, who had ordered for the release of terrorists, have taken oath under the new PCO. However, taking oath under PCO was the personal discretion of any judge, he stated.
(http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=31691)
ISLAMABAD: Former Justice Khalilur Rahman Ramday has said that if such key players of terrorism were released on the court orders, then it means that the government didn’t provide the evidences.
Talking to Geo News, Justice Khalilur Rahman Ramday said that he was unable to understand as to why the blame of releasing terrorists was being put forth and added that if such key players of terrorism were released, then why did the government not come forward with evidences against them.
Justice Ramday said that both the judges, who had ordered for the release of terrorists, have taken oath under the new PCO. However, taking oath under PCO was the personal discretion of any judge, he stated.
(http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=31691)
#89 Posted by Lal_Shah on November 5, 2007 4:00:17 am
We most definitely do have a substitute to Musharraf - it's called the constitution and the rule of law. The whole point is that he is not indispensable, and that we need rulers who respect the country enough to honor its laws.
Do you really think Musharraf is going to do anything in Swat or Waziristan? There was nothing stopping him from addressing them before. What is this huge military for if not to deal with such problems? Yet we read of captured troops and police stations regularly. He's been utterly ineffective in limiting the militants, and is now using them as an excuse to crack down on lawyers, judges, human rights activists, and supporters of democracy. He's actually beating up and arresting exactly the people who most strongly oppose the militants.
The power has gone to Mushy's head. How will he ever leave now?
#88 Posted by masadi on November 5, 2007 3:44:59 am
bulleya writes ".......this implies the president has been fired.....and the army has taken over, offiically....."
Unofficially or officially the military is firmly in charge, whatever other hats the head of the military might wear for legitimacy, he knows that without the uniform he is horse sh**.
Unofficially or officially the military is firmly in charge, whatever other hats the head of the military might wear for legitimacy, he knows that without the uniform he is horse sh**.
#87 Posted by harish_hyd on November 5, 2007 1:59:50 am
Romair mian, please stop the gibberish, will you?
#86 Posted by jayp on November 5, 2007 1:57:47 am
Romair,
You are in the same category as the judges. The authority of the prime minister come from the PCO, and not from the old constitution, as you understand it.
You are in the same category as the judges. The authority of the prime minister come from the PCO, and not from the old constitution, as you understand it.
#85 Posted by bulleya on November 5, 2007 1:54:29 am
...one has heard of coups against a civilian govt., by the military.....one has heard of coups against a military govt. by another military general.......but this has to be considered an extremely strange coup......
......a person has, basically, kicked himself out.......the chief of army staff has put the constitution into abeyance, thereby declaring all govt. structures ineffective and dissolved.......this implies the president has been fired.....and the army has taken over, offiically.....
.......however, the president happens to be the same person, who is the coas.......so the coas has fired the president.......musharraf the coas has fired musharraf the president, becuase musharraf the coas felt that the musharraf the president wasn't doing a good enough job.....and the country's future was at stake.......
.....if a general thinks that even he himself cannot do a good job as the president, and thus has to fire himself, then who else can do the job?.......
....and if nobody can do the job as president, even when the president has dictatorial powers, then how does the country run?......
....additionally, under what rule is the prime minister in power now.......whenever the constitution has been put into abeyance, earlier, the assemblies and pm and president etc. have been fired and wrapped up........that is, always, the whole purpose of the coup......
......the prime ministership is actually a position defined by the constitution (as far as i know), as is the president......so the coas has fired himself from the role of president......and the prime minister is in place, even though his hiring contract (the constitution) is no longer active.......the same rule applies to the minsiters and national assembly and senate.......
...zia-ul-haq was able to achieve this same status, to a great extent, when he was leading the mujahideen, with the support of the usa, against the godless soviets, to save the God-fearing world.........now musharraf has (or is trying) to achieve the same status as he is fighting the godly mujahid, with the support of the usa, to save the secular world......
strange.......surely things cannot go on like this forever.....something has to give......the camel has to sit down in some manner, at some time.......
......a person has, basically, kicked himself out.......the chief of army staff has put the constitution into abeyance, thereby declaring all govt. structures ineffective and dissolved.......this implies the president has been fired.....and the army has taken over, offiically.....
.......however, the president happens to be the same person, who is the coas.......so the coas has fired the president.......musharraf the coas has fired musharraf the president, becuase musharraf the coas felt that the musharraf the president wasn't doing a good enough job.....and the country's future was at stake.......
.....if a general thinks that even he himself cannot do a good job as the president, and thus has to fire himself, then who else can do the job?.......
....and if nobody can do the job as president, even when the president has dictatorial powers, then how does the country run?......
....additionally, under what rule is the prime minister in power now.......whenever the constitution has been put into abeyance, earlier, the assemblies and pm and president etc. have been fired and wrapped up........that is, always, the whole purpose of the coup......
......the prime ministership is actually a position defined by the constitution (as far as i know), as is the president......so the coas has fired himself from the role of president......and the prime minister is in place, even though his hiring contract (the constitution) is no longer active.......the same rule applies to the minsiters and national assembly and senate.......
...zia-ul-haq was able to achieve this same status, to a great extent, when he was leading the mujahideen, with the support of the usa, against the godless soviets, to save the God-fearing world.........now musharraf has (or is trying) to achieve the same status as he is fighting the godly mujahid, with the support of the usa, to save the secular world......
strange.......surely things cannot go on like this forever.....something has to give......the camel has to sit down in some manner, at some time.......
#84 Posted by jayp on November 5, 2007 1:54:29 am
For once you have to agree with Mushy, the supreme court judges are in cuckoo land.
Cannot believe what they are planning to do, and they have to be sacked, for being so stupid.
ISLAMABAD: Deposed judges of the Supreme Court and Sindh High Court would go to their offices and preside over their respective courts today (Monday), sources close to these judges told The News.
A meeting to discuss the future strategy was held at the residence of Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry on Monday, the sources said, adding, most of the deposed judges including Justice Bhagwandas and Justice Javed Iqbal attended.
The sources said the meeting reviewed the constitutional crisis after imposition of emergency in the country and legal position of the “sacked” judges. The judges at the meeting chaired by the CJ averred that they were still active and could continue court work. The judges decided to go to the Supreme Court as routine to attend their offices, the sources concluded.
Online/NNI add: In Karachi, the ousted Chief Justice of Sindh High Court Justice Sabihuddin Ahmed said that judges who refused to take oath under the Provincial Constitution Order will go to duty today (Monday).
BBC quoted Justice Sabihuddin Ahmed as saying that the judges will perform their duties as of routine. Separately talking to reporters Justice Sabihuddin said he and his colleague judges have not received any notification of removal from services and he would turn on their duty along with his twenty-three colleagues and conduct hearings of the cases as usual.
Cannot believe what they are planning to do, and they have to be sacked, for being so stupid.
ISLAMABAD: Deposed judges of the Supreme Court and Sindh High Court would go to their offices and preside over their respective courts today (Monday), sources close to these judges told The News.
A meeting to discuss the future strategy was held at the residence of Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry on Monday, the sources said, adding, most of the deposed judges including Justice Bhagwandas and Justice Javed Iqbal attended.
The sources said the meeting reviewed the constitutional crisis after imposition of emergency in the country and legal position of the “sacked” judges. The judges at the meeting chaired by the CJ averred that they were still active and could continue court work. The judges decided to go to the Supreme Court as routine to attend their offices, the sources concluded.
Online/NNI add: In Karachi, the ousted Chief Justice of Sindh High Court Justice Sabihuddin Ahmed said that judges who refused to take oath under the Provincial Constitution Order will go to duty today (Monday).
BBC quoted Justice Sabihuddin Ahmed as saying that the judges will perform their duties as of routine. Separately talking to reporters Justice Sabihuddin said he and his colleague judges have not received any notification of removal from services and he would turn on their duty along with his twenty-three colleagues and conduct hearings of the cases as usual.
#83 Posted by jayp on November 5, 2007 1:45:20 am
ISLAMBAD: Pakistani President PervezMusharraf denied rumours sweeping Pakistan on Monday that he had been placed under house arrest by subordinates unhappy with his decision to impose emergency rule.
"It is a joke of the highest order," Musharraf told foreign news agency from the Presidency building in Islamabad where he had just met more than 80 foreign diplomats to explain his decision.
Media organisations received calls from cities all around Pakistan, including Karachi, where the stock market had fallen 4.7 percent on the political uncertainty.
"It is a joke of the highest order," Musharraf told foreign news agency from the Presidency building in Islamabad where he had just met more than 80 foreign diplomats to explain his decision.
Media organisations received calls from cities all around Pakistan, including Karachi, where the stock market had fallen 4.7 percent on the political uncertainty.
#82 Posted by zeemax on November 5, 2007 1:44:26 am
#80 Posted by jayp,
jayp can you read Urdu? If you can, the column by Hamid Mir in today's Jang will be quite amusing for you!
jayp can you read Urdu? If you can, the column by Hamid Mir in today's Jang will be quite amusing for you!
#81 Posted by zeemax on November 5, 2007 1:42:17 am
#79 Posted by majumdar,
Why has Mehsud agreed to an exchange ratio of 8.52 (as per Jay's post)? Is it becuase 1 havayoon = 10 kanjaroon.
The latter is correct though about 1=100 is a better guess. Those Mujahids released will account for at-least that many kanjar's heads!
Why has Mehsud agreed to an exchange ratio of 8.52 (as per Jay's post)? Is it becuase 1 havayoon = 10 kanjaroon.
The latter is correct though about 1=100 is a better guess. Those Mujahids released will account for at-least that many kanjar's heads!
#80 Posted by jayp on November 5, 2007 1:38:18 am
The time to correct the error of collin Powel in making the phone call is approaching. The US and british forces are increasingly cooperating with the indian troops and a joint strike against pakistan may be a decade away. The monstrocity created by Jinnah will not die easily, it has to have a very violent death.
#79 Posted by majumdar on November 5, 2007 1:35:17 am
Zee sahib,
Why has Mehsud agreed to an exchange ratio of 8.52 (as per Jay's post)? Is it becuase 1 havayoon = 10 kanjaroon. Of course one simple explanation could be that the released kanjaroons would be worthless to the Army as they would be of suspect integrity.
???
Regards
Why has Mehsud agreed to an exchange ratio of 8.52 (as per Jay's post)? Is it becuase 1 havayoon = 10 kanjaroon. Of course one simple explanation could be that the released kanjaroons would be worthless to the Army as they would be of suspect integrity.
???
Regards
#78 Posted by VRV on November 5, 2007 1:19:07 am
Ranjit,
To me it's a choice btw Tweedledum & Tweedledee. It's Mush who cretaed Kargil. When he toned down on Kashmir it's not his stratgey but one of the consequences of 9/11.
Bad guy is a bad buy. Mush is one.
To me it's a choice btw Tweedledum & Tweedledee. It's Mush who cretaed Kargil. When he toned down on Kashmir it's not his stratgey but one of the consequences of 9/11.
Bad guy is a bad buy. Mush is one.
#76 Posted by zeemax on November 5, 2007 1:14:13 am
#73 Posted by harish_hyd,
Yeah the exchange was negotiated by 'Jirga's.
My point is that he 'negotiates' when kicked but kicks the gun-less around.
Yeah the exchange was negotiated by 'Jirga's.
My point is that he 'negotiates' when kicked but kicks the gun-less around.
#75 Posted by jayp on November 5, 2007 1:12:54 am
Sources said that militants had brought 213 soldiers to Tiarza Khula, a remote area in South Waziristan, and handed them over to tribal elders. The military authorities brought the 25 militants in two helicopters to the brigade headquarters in Zari Noor colony near Wana. They were later taken to Tiarza Khula for the swap.
The sources said that seven militants had been released from the central jail in Dera Ismail Khan and 18 had been brought from Islamabad.
Zulfiqar Mehsud, spokesman for Baitullah Mehsud, and his deputy Fakher Alam Mehsud handed over the soldiers to a jirga headed by former MNA Maulvi Mirajuddin.
The sources said that seven militants had been released from the central jail in Dera Ismail Khan and 18 had been brought from Islamabad.
Zulfiqar Mehsud, spokesman for Baitullah Mehsud, and his deputy Fakher Alam Mehsud handed over the soldiers to a jirga headed by former MNA Maulvi Mirajuddin.
#74 Posted by jayp on November 5, 2007 1:09:31 am
Ranjit 71,
The jihadi general taking over is teh prelude to the iraquisation of pakistan. The pak troops will be bombed out, the jihadis and the mqm will fight it out, and who ever survives will need to be finished off by the second wave of military operation. That is what is happening in iraq, the sunnis are almost finished, then subdue the shia and there will be peace.
Like every muslim country, where the brothers have routinely killed each other to remain in power, pakistanis also have to follow the islamic tradition, the blood bath has not taken place in pakistan yet, the 1947 ones were only the kafir blood and that does not quench the laws of 7th century tribals
The jihadi general taking over is teh prelude to the iraquisation of pakistan. The pak troops will be bombed out, the jihadis and the mqm will fight it out, and who ever survives will need to be finished off by the second wave of military operation. That is what is happening in iraq, the sunnis are almost finished, then subdue the shia and there will be peace.
Like every muslim country, where the brothers have routinely killed each other to remain in power, pakistanis also have to follow the islamic tradition, the blood bath has not taken place in pakistan yet, the 1947 ones were only the kafir blood and that does not quench the laws of 7th century tribals
#73 Posted by harish_hyd on November 5, 2007 12:56:47 am
#69 by zeemax
LoL ... at the same time he was recording this speech, his 450+ military men held captive were being released unharmed by Baitullah Mehsud and Fazlullalh after his 'Jirga' plea.
But wasn't it in exchange for the 65-odd militants released by the Paki Army?
LoL ... at the same time he was recording this speech, his 450+ military men held captive were being released unharmed by Baitullah Mehsud and Fazlullalh after his 'Jirga' plea.
But wasn't it in exchange for the 65-odd militants released by the Paki Army?
#72 Posted by VRV on November 5, 2007 12:53:47 am
I know Zee. My point is that he acts like a sher to civilians and like a billi to Taliban.
#71 Posted by Ranjit on November 5, 2007 12:53:36 am
VRV and jayp,
Musharraf is the best bet for US and India. Benazir will be a weak PM and will compromise with the hardliners even more in order to survive. Nawaz Sharif is an out and out jihadi supporter. That haraami still talks about Kashmir even though he is sitting in exile in Saudi Arabia.
All said and done, Musharraf cooled down Kashmir completely. He is also trying to wrest back the frontier from the Taliban. If he fails and we see a jihadi general in charge of Islamabad, then we are all doomed.
Musharraf is the best bet for US and India. Benazir will be a weak PM and will compromise with the hardliners even more in order to survive. Nawaz Sharif is an out and out jihadi supporter. That haraami still talks about Kashmir even though he is sitting in exile in Saudi Arabia.
All said and done, Musharraf cooled down Kashmir completely. He is also trying to wrest back the frontier from the Taliban. If he fails and we see a jihadi general in charge of Islamabad, then we are all doomed.
#69 Posted by zeemax on November 5, 2007 12:52:20 am
#65 Posted by VRV,
Negotiates with hardboiled terrorists but jails the democratic dissenters in Punjab (the heart of Pakistan).
LoL ... at the same time he was recording this speech, his 450+ military men held captive were being released unharmed by Baitullah Mehsud and Fazlullalh after his 'Jirga' plea.
Pls note Ranjit.
Negotiates with hardboiled terrorists but jails the democratic dissenters in Punjab (the heart of Pakistan).
LoL ... at the same time he was recording this speech, his 450+ military men held captive were being released unharmed by Baitullah Mehsud and Fazlullalh after his 'Jirga' plea.
Pls note Ranjit.
#68 Posted by jayp on November 5, 2007 12:51:10 am
People are predicting major calamity for pakistan due to the emergency. Nothing is going to happen, the lawyer mobs will vanish shortly, and not many PPP people will want to come out seeing what happened in karachi.
Mushy will strike deal with the tribals to save the troops. Americans will be pondering what to do. The middle class of pakistan will become poorer, teh tribals will flourish.
One year will go quickly, there will be some elections and it will be the stability as usual. There will be occassional missiles from the yanks...the slow decline of pakistan into a fragmented jihadic failed state will continue.
One thing is definite, the jihadis will attain increased power, having decisively defeated the pak army.
Mushy will strike deal with the tribals to save the troops. Americans will be pondering what to do. The middle class of pakistan will become poorer, teh tribals will flourish.
One year will go quickly, there will be some elections and it will be the stability as usual. There will be occassional missiles from the yanks...the slow decline of pakistan into a fragmented jihadic failed state will continue.
One thing is definite, the jihadis will attain increased power, having decisively defeated the pak army.
#67 Posted by Ranjit on November 5, 2007 12:48:08 am
Re:zee#64
Zee, the jihadi tactic is very simple. They pretend to be disorganized as if they are part of the civilian population, so no rules apply to them. They can behead people or kill anyone in the way. Yet they expect their adversaries to follow the rules of a normal society and follow legal proceedings. Its no surprise that whenever there is an attack on the jihadis, they cry out about civilian deaths, since basically they pretend to be civilians.
The adversary i.e. US/pak/indian/israeli/afghan armies have wisened up to this tactic. Therefore, they are hitting back with even greater force and have dropped all pretenses about legal proceedigs. Basically they just want to kill jihadis, as many as possible and in as much brutal manner as possible without asking any questions. India did it in Kashmir, Israel did it with Palestinians, US did it in Afghanistan/Iraq and now Pakistan is doing it in FATA/PATA. Since it has worked elsewhere, it will work in Pakistan too. Thats exactly what Musharraf is doing too. If he doesnt, he will be kicked out by the US and the next US proxy will proceed with the plan.
Zee, the jihadi tactic is very simple. They pretend to be disorganized as if they are part of the civilian population, so no rules apply to them. They can behead people or kill anyone in the way. Yet they expect their adversaries to follow the rules of a normal society and follow legal proceedings. Its no surprise that whenever there is an attack on the jihadis, they cry out about civilian deaths, since basically they pretend to be civilians.
The adversary i.e. US/pak/indian/israeli/afghan armies have wisened up to this tactic. Therefore, they are hitting back with even greater force and have dropped all pretenses about legal proceedigs. Basically they just want to kill jihadis, as many as possible and in as much brutal manner as possible without asking any questions. India did it in Kashmir, Israel did it with Palestinians, US did it in Afghanistan/Iraq and now Pakistan is doing it in FATA/PATA. Since it has worked elsewhere, it will work in Pakistan too. Thats exactly what Musharraf is doing too. If he doesnt, he will be kicked out by the US and the next US proxy will proceed with the plan.
#66 Posted by jayp on November 5, 2007 12:43:34 am
In the case of pakistan every policy that introduced jihadic concepts have been of disastrous consequence.
Pka army was a professional army based on teh british lines, no regard for religion. Then they changed it to a jihadic army, with the motto jihad in the name of God. Clear indication of thsi change was in teh Kragill where the the dozen indians captured at first were tortured, killed and mutilated, the kind pakistanis see in waziristan now.
Now that the pak army is a jihadic army, naturally teh troops are asking why teh muslims are being killed.
They are surrendering rather than fighting, they are leaving in droves and insubordination is on the rise. This well understood by Mushy, he has let go of teh arrested guys in Swat, and the 200 troops are coming back.
Pakistan can no longer fight the jihadis, it will be left for the nato do the job. Pak army has been defeated because of its jihadic outlook.
Pka army was a professional army based on teh british lines, no regard for religion. Then they changed it to a jihadic army, with the motto jihad in the name of God. Clear indication of thsi change was in teh Kragill where the the dozen indians captured at first were tortured, killed and mutilated, the kind pakistanis see in waziristan now.
Now that the pak army is a jihadic army, naturally teh troops are asking why teh muslims are being killed.
They are surrendering rather than fighting, they are leaving in droves and insubordination is on the rise. This well understood by Mushy, he has let go of teh arrested guys in Swat, and the 200 troops are coming back.
Pakistan can no longer fight the jihadis, it will be left for the nato do the job. Pak army has been defeated because of its jihadic outlook.
#65 Posted by VRV on November 5, 2007 12:38:37 am
Musharraf comes on TV and claims that the country is on the verge of collapse/disintegration forgetting fully that was he who brought it upon Pakistan after presiding over it for 8 years, even if we ignore that the stance is unbecoming of a head of state and de jure head of govt (2in1).
In a bizarre fashion addresses the ppl of US while appearing nation TV in Pakistan - and quotes Abraham Lincoln - ignoring that he's digging his grave deeper.
Seem to prevent the suicide of the country and prefers to murder her himself.
Negotiates with hardboiled terrorists but jails the democratic dissenters in Punjab (the heart of Pakistan).
In sum, he's the proverbial dhobi ka kutta, 'na ghar ka na ghat ka' (pl read it as 'na Pakistan ka na Amrika ka').
In a bizarre fashion addresses the ppl of US while appearing nation TV in Pakistan - and quotes Abraham Lincoln - ignoring that he's digging his grave deeper.
Seem to prevent the suicide of the country and prefers to murder her himself.
Negotiates with hardboiled terrorists but jails the democratic dissenters in Punjab (the heart of Pakistan).
In sum, he's the proverbial dhobi ka kutta, 'na ghar ka na ghat ka' (pl read it as 'na Pakistan ka na Amrika ka').
#64 Posted by zeemax on November 5, 2007 12:32:16 am
#63 Posted by Ranjit,
I see. So you want kangaroo courts and lynch mobs in place of judiciary. That's fine with the Jihadis. After all they just have to say 'Allah-o-Akbar' before beheading, while the new CJ will say 'Musharraf-o-Akbar' before doing the same.
Good going !
I see. So you want kangaroo courts and lynch mobs in place of judiciary. That's fine with the Jihadis. After all they just have to say 'Allah-o-Akbar' before beheading, while the new CJ will say 'Musharraf-o-Akbar' before doing the same.
Good going !
#63 Posted by Ranjit on November 5, 2007 12:18:17 am
Re:zeemax#62
"CJ has replied this charge in the most classic manner by stating "It is not possible for the Supreme Court to convict people without sufficient evidence"."
Zee, legal niceties are meaningless in a war. What is happening in Pakistan is an all out war between jihadis and the US via its proxies (pak army). In this war, there are no rules. You blast suicide bombs and behead people, we fire missiles into your homes and mosques to reduce you to charcoal and we arrest you and keep in jail forever. Its a fight to the finish with no mercy for either side. You dont give mercy, so dont expect any back.
Thats the way it is. The CJ tried to interfere in this death game and wanted to shackle the hands of one side. It couldnt be tolerated and he had to be booted out.
"CJ has replied this charge in the most classic manner by stating "It is not possible for the Supreme Court to convict people without sufficient evidence"."
Zee, legal niceties are meaningless in a war. What is happening in Pakistan is an all out war between jihadis and the US via its proxies (pak army). In this war, there are no rules. You blast suicide bombs and behead people, we fire missiles into your homes and mosques to reduce you to charcoal and we arrest you and keep in jail forever. Its a fight to the finish with no mercy for either side. You dont give mercy, so dont expect any back.
Thats the way it is. The CJ tried to interfere in this death game and wanted to shackle the hands of one side. It couldnt be tolerated and he had to be booted out.
#62 Posted by zeemax on November 4, 2007 11:48:14 pm
#56 Posted by Ranjit,
That chief justice guy was an even bigger lunatic who returned the Lal Masjid to the taliban and started freeing all the arrested extremists.
CJ has replied this charge in the most classic manner by stating "It is not possible for the Supreme Court to convict people without sufficient evidence".
Are you going to dispute that?
That chief justice guy was an even bigger lunatic who returned the Lal Masjid to the taliban and started freeing all the arrested extremists.
CJ has replied this charge in the most classic manner by stating "It is not possible for the Supreme Court to convict people without sufficient evidence".
Are you going to dispute that?
#61 Posted by Zyxius on November 4, 2007 10:44:41 pm
Vaisey, Shortcut Aziz is probably crapping his pants right now. Being a diplomatic private banker used to making friends only, not enemies, and being able to refuse in the politest manner without offending, only frustrating, he is probably crapping his pants that he's joined hands with the toughest dude in Pakistan right now and he's probably never even raised his voice for fear of getting bitch slapped by someone tougher than him (almost everybody). Wonder what pills he's using to sleep at night.
BTW, I still think these two guys are the best we have.
BTW, I still think these two guys are the best we have.
#59 Posted by Ras on November 4, 2007 10:27:31 pm
While claiming to know less about the current situation
than hamidm's sprinkler guy, let me just add that this
emergency "crackdown' is troubling.
While Musharraf is claiming to confront the beards
and using them as an excuse for this emergency, the
people being arrested are the strong supporters of
democratic change.
The Pakistan Army needs to concentrate on targeting
people behind the suicide bombers, not the irritants
that want democratic change.
I see that a number of people here are busy attacking
Benazir instead of highlighting this strange development.
BB is the necessary element to bring back the moderates
into the Pakistani political mainstream.
The General has cornered himself and needs assistance to
fight against extremists. In that he has the support of
the PPP. But who exactly is he cracking down on?
Ras
#58 Posted by Ranjit on November 4, 2007 10:07:20 pm
Vaisey, Pak politics is better than any TV serial on Zee TV. You have violence, intrigue, rape, melodrama, rona-dhona and what not. Its complete paisa vasool. Even the Zee TV script writers cant come up with such masala.
#57 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on November 4, 2007 10:04:51 pm
Pakistan army does not let a strong emerging leader to stay on scene & challange it:
These were all Leaders (Good or Bad) perceived by People - Bad were eliminated or are in the process:
Zuliqat Bhutto
Nawaz Shareef
Benazir
ex-Chief Justice
Ehtizaz Ahsan
even Asma
Who are we to judge. Let the people elect whosoever they want. It is not the Army's business to select leaders. This goon Musharraf is dim wit - my personal opinion. Let him stand in an open election & see his worth.
NHK
These were all Leaders (Good or Bad) perceived by People - Bad were eliminated or are in the process:
Zuliqat Bhutto
Nawaz Shareef
Benazir
ex-Chief Justice
Ehtizaz Ahsan
even Asma
Who are we to judge. Let the people elect whosoever they want. It is not the Army's business to select leaders. This goon Musharraf is dim wit - my personal opinion. Let him stand in an open election & see his worth.
NHK
#56 Posted by Ranjit on November 4, 2007 10:04:38 pm
Why are people getting needlessly upset? Musharraf is the lesser of all the lunatics running loose in Pakistan. That chief justice guy was an even bigger lunatic who returned the Lal Masjid to the taliban and started freeing all the arrested extremists. If this action means a few more years of Musharraf rule, that is far better than any other option.
#55 Posted by Zyxius on November 4, 2007 10:00:07 pm
Bibi's deal for democracy-
Mushy to Bibi: Excuse me Madam, but will you sleep with me for a million pounds?
Bibi: A million pounds?!! Why of course I would!
Mushy: Well, how about 2 pounds?
Bibi: 2 Pounds?!! What do you think I am?
Mushy: I think we've already established that but now we're just haggling about the price.
Mushy to Bibi: Excuse me Madam, but will you sleep with me for a million pounds?
Bibi: A million pounds?!! Why of course I would!
Mushy: Well, how about 2 pounds?
Bibi: 2 Pounds?!! What do you think I am?
Mushy: I think we've already established that but now we're just haggling about the price.
#54 Posted by nasah on November 4, 2007 9:57:59 pm
Re: # 50
"but what we need now is more than a few funny lines. You have a suggestion for a name?"
yes we need more than a few funny LINES -- we need a few strong lines to hang this "b%stard" by the nearest lamp post.....for treason -- that is for hijacking his own government.
btw THE name is Kiyani who may go for Musharraf's miyani....
"but what we need now is more than a few funny lines. You have a suggestion for a name?"
yes we need more than a few funny LINES -- we need a few strong lines to hang this "b%stard" by the nearest lamp post.....for treason -- that is for hijacking his own government.
btw THE name is Kiyani who may go for Musharraf's miyani....
#53 Posted by ahmedmadani on November 4, 2007 9:47:30 pm
Re: # 18 Mr. Kamath... you point is well taken irrelevance comes fast for mr. Gandhi in India and Mr. Jinnah . But they are national symbols. Now author says Jinnah could not have imagine. Now this lack of information was showing jinnah as not prophetic in thinking . Mr. Jinnah said famously succesive govt of pakistan will more and more corroupt. He said general way it was for financial and moral corrouptions. Just cvorrection, nothing more nothing less.
Now irony should be born in Indian mind, you cut bangladesh and wanted to mend ways. Both countries went different paths and both ended in same military led government led by martial spiritis. I think every land has ethos and like water following on lands finally meets to see bangladesh and pakistan went different way but ended at same place at same government systems of armed forces control.
My feel is india is also on way to militart rule as even religion different we have same racial dna and to be ruled and whipped by army bosses.our people have no good democratic dna and only way to rule make people good is to whip indians till their moral improves as great british management said . Please watch I said today, Indian army is moving same as mynar though that race is different. Fate is decided by desh DNA and desi race, of miltary rule as we are predisposed genetically.When whipped we work better and left to democracy we decide to sleep in offices and on fields like bufflow. Now days I feel. Wish you good morning.
Now irony should be born in Indian mind, you cut bangladesh and wanted to mend ways. Both countries went different paths and both ended in same military led government led by martial spiritis. I think every land has ethos and like water following on lands finally meets to see bangladesh and pakistan went different way but ended at same place at same government systems of armed forces control.
My feel is india is also on way to militart rule as even religion different we have same racial dna and to be ruled and whipped by army bosses.our people have no good democratic dna and only way to rule make people good is to whip indians till their moral improves as great british management said . Please watch I said today, Indian army is moving same as mynar though that race is different. Fate is decided by desh DNA and desi race, of miltary rule as we are predisposed genetically.When whipped we work better and left to democracy we decide to sleep in offices and on fields like bufflow. Now days I feel. Wish you good morning.
#52 Posted by nasah on November 4, 2007 9:34:40 pm
"Republican Senator Arlen Specter said Bush should speak out forcefully.
``We have bolstered Musharraf with billions of dollars in recent years, and military support, and we ought to be specific that it's not going to continue,'' the senator said.
``I wouldn't support Pakistan with U.S. aid here. He's doing everything, which is against democracy.
Seizing the Supreme Court is just outlandish.
What he's done is declared himself the dictator,'' Specter said. ``And he hasn't been helping us enough on terrorism, so that I think we ought to get very tough with him and try to drive him into line.''
``We have bolstered Musharraf with billions of dollars in recent years, and military support, and we ought to be specific that it's not going to continue,'' the senator said.
``I wouldn't support Pakistan with U.S. aid here. He's doing everything, which is against democracy.
Seizing the Supreme Court is just outlandish.
What he's done is declared himself the dictator,'' Specter said. ``And he hasn't been helping us enough on terrorism, so that I think we ought to get very tough with him and try to drive him into line.''
#50 Posted by Zyxius on November 4, 2007 9:27:05 pm
Rashid.....#49; I like what you did with the "expiry date" analogy and I'm sure if you turn to our public, we have millions of people who will come up with such funny and witty things to say about the situation...but what we need now is more than a few funny lines. You have a suggestion for a name?
#49 Posted by rashid_s on November 4, 2007 9:19:58 pm
"DO YOU HAVE A SUBSTITUTE?"
You mean 160 million Pakistanis do not have any other than Musharraf, BB and Nawaz Shareef??
'Recycling' is a good conservation policy but to reuse pass the 'use by date' can be harmful!
Rashid
You mean 160 million Pakistanis do not have any other than Musharraf, BB and Nawaz Shareef??
'Recycling' is a good conservation policy but to reuse pass the 'use by date' can be harmful!
Rashid
#48 Posted by Zyxius on November 4, 2007 9:09:03 pm
Thank you Salman for finally getting a piece in the media that doesnt call Mushy the devil in disguise. I am not a die hard supporter of Mushy, but I just think that the media, the lawyers and the judges are way way out of line and are basically trying to stage a coup of their own. Iftikhar Chaudry gave no consideration to how he was destabilizing the country, he did not care that his visit to Karachi was causing a security nightmare on May 12th, he did not care that Mushy was obviously progressing towards reducing his role, Iftikhar Chaudry was another Paki on a power trip! These lawyers and judges give the pretense of being impartial, law abiding model citizens upholding the beacon of democracy...and that is total bullshit. If they were impartial they wouldnt have fielded their own candidate. They are a political party in disguise and they are misusing their positions. There is only one solution to this and I believe we gave Zulfi Bhutto a dose of that medicine. I propose that Chaudry Iftikhar, his lawyer cronies, Ayesha Tammy Haq, and a few other media instigators/provocateurs should be tried and executed for treason or any other charge that we can reasonably justify. This should teach these bastards, and everyone else a lesson to put our national interests over their own personal egos and agendas.
It just seems that people dont see the obvious progression that Mushy referred to in his speech, and demonstrated in his actions; phase 3, the return to democratic rule. He has been tolerating media insults, the witch from hell (Bibi) returned and hurled insults and accusations at everyone in the government and instigated the extremists...killing 150 people in the process and thereafter abandoning ship and fleeing for Dubai.
I have not seen Mushy bitching about how the lights were turned off, or that IB Chief should be sacked, or that his mother didnt hug him enough. Damn it!!! I think we should hang Bibi just for the heck of it, not that she and Mr 10% dont deserve much more. I say its time to get tough and take the gloves off and let our ISI start throwing people away where they will never be found. Lets see how AItizaz Ahsen likes his new quarters in Tora Bora!
It just seems that people dont see the obvious progression that Mushy referred to in his speech, and demonstrated in his actions; phase 3, the return to democratic rule. He has been tolerating media insults, the witch from hell (Bibi) returned and hurled insults and accusations at everyone in the government and instigated the extremists...killing 150 people in the process and thereafter abandoning ship and fleeing for Dubai.
I have not seen Mushy bitching about how the lights were turned off, or that IB Chief should be sacked, or that his mother didnt hug him enough. Damn it!!! I think we should hang Bibi just for the heck of it, not that she and Mr 10% dont deserve much more. I say its time to get tough and take the gloves off and let our ISI start throwing people away where they will never be found. Lets see how AItizaz Ahsen likes his new quarters in Tora Bora!
#47 Posted by nasah on November 4, 2007 9:00:14 pm
"It is possible that Musharraf also could not face stepping down as head of the Army and taking off his uniform, as he had promised to do, by November 15, whatever the court ruling. Much of his power would immediately have gone; calculation aside, the psychological wrench may also have been too formidable."(London Times)
Uniform or no uniform -- Kiyani Coup is coming -- those who live by coups will leave only by the coup.
Uniform or no uniform -- Kiyani Coup is coming -- those who live by coups will leave only by the coup.
#46 Posted by bjkumar on November 4, 2007 7:53:51 pm
#45 Hamidm2
[......... the problem with most pakis is that they just don't know when to stop ......... ]
On the east side, it is called the line of control!
#45 Posted by hamidm2 on November 4, 2007 7:50:03 pm
the fool should have quit while he was ahead
......somebody should have slapped the chief justice when he started taking suo moto notice of the price of onions and began reinstating murderous mullahs as guardians of the bloody masjid ...... the old fool just got carried away ...... now he has probably pushed back elections by a year or so and bb and maulana fazloo - people who had something to gain from the trnsition - will slap him silly if he shows up for dinner ....... only perpetual losers like imran khan, the mardoodites and urstruly think the man is some kind of a frigging hero .....
......... the problem with most pakis is that they just don't know when to stop ......... i blame that droopy eyed bastard as much as i blame the goons in khaki for this turn of events ........ as bugs bunny would say: what a pair of maroons !