The Empire Strikes Again in Pakistan

Zyxius,

Agreed that BB, NS and AH are a bad lot. But do you think politicians in India or US or Italy are any better. The only reason these guys end up doing less damage (generally) is that there are strong institutions which provide the necessary checks and balances. The solution for Pak is to move to a democratic setup and allow institutions to develop over a period of time.

Regards

I do see the contradiction and I realize how bad it is...but I really do believe that anyone else will be much worse. Bibi, if she wasn't born in Zulfi Bhutto's house would probably have been on some street corner of a red light area in Amsterdam. She is only slightly better than Altaf Hussain. All of them would do much worse. I think that the sooner Phase 3 is completed, the sooner we will be on our way to being out of this mess with more broad based say in the way our affairs are run. If it is prolonged to much, we will be plunged into civil war, and it will be a legitimate civil war. That would be the worse kind.

Zyxius,

(Mushy has made some terrible mistakes and he should be held accountable for those, but not while he is running the country and we have so many problems to take care of.)

&

(The war against our own people cannot go on. No matter how much we think they are extremists, we cannot forget that they are our own flesh and blood and we cannot declare war on them...)

Don't you see the contradiction here. Who started Pakistan's war against its own citizens, Mushy himself? In short a huge chunk of the current crisis has to be put squarely on Mushy's own shoulder. And there is no evidence that Mushy wants to redress the scenario.

Regards

I think everyone has mixed feelings about what is happening to our country. I stand by Mushy in this situation but I do have very grave concerns about so many things:

1. In the US, after GWB controversially won his first election there were threats of court battles and the situation could have gotten ugly...but they have a tradition of rallying behind the person whom is in charge. I wish we had more of this in us; even if we disagree with our leaders, we should never take democracy to mean that destabilizing the entire situation is an expression of our democratic rights....its just not right for the country. Its not easy to make another country, we should cherish what we have and protect it with our dear lives.

2. Mushy has made some terrible mistakes and he should be held accountable for those, but not while he is running the country and we have so many problems to take care of. The war against our own people cannot go on. No matter how much we think they are extremists, we cannot forget that they are our own flesh and blood and we cannot declare war on them...it will lead to civil war in Pakistan and dismemberment of the state. This is an American agenda and Mushy and all other "leaders" should steer clear of the US agenda in Pakistan.

3. Bibi seems to be even more eager than Mushy to push the American agenda. She even disgracefully said in the press that the Americans should use all leverage, including aid, to pressure Pakistan into compliance. Rather than fight for our sovereignty, Bibi is more than willing to sell us down the river to save her legacy and looted gains. I fear that Bibi will lead us to civil war through the US agenda in Pakistan.

4. The Americans seem hell-bent on destroying Pakistan from within. Iraq and Iran still require and outside force to invade and destroy. In Pakistan they have found that internal fractures don't require them to even set foot on the ground; they are having us fight one another. The recent batch of soldiers sent to SWAT was screen to ensure no pashtuns were included. How can we start discriminating amongst ourselves like this?

5. The judiciary should always remain independent and the Chief Justice did many great things. However, he should not have gone in the same current as the opposition which sought to destabilize the country. In this, he committed a grave offense against the country. In all democracies, national interest is weighed heavily against idealistic concerns of the legal community and often national security prevails. In the west, specially the US and UK, you have countless examples in recent years. Why did the CJ not give a damn about destabilizing the entire country? He should have left Mushy's democracy agenda alone and let Phase 3 take place. Idealism fails to realize that stability, not democracy, is what we need. We cannot have democracy because we dont have enough free people to vote. Feudalism and Feudals must be eliminated before true democracy can happen in Pakistan.

6. The media has been absolutely disgraceful. They simply thrive on controversy and negativity. I have not seen anything positive about everything good that has happened in Pakistan in the last 8 years. And if they do show something positive, they will never credit the government for it. People like Ayesha Tammy Haq simply have no sincerity for the country and are out there for photo ops. Where the hell were they during Bibi or Nawaz's terms? They know that Mushy will not lock them up for their behavior on TV so they take unfair advantage and openly display a disgraceful bias without any information that balances their disinformation. Just pick up Dawn and you have Mr Social Elite's (Hameed Haroon with his british accent) newspaper demonstrating its impeccable "Civil Society" credentials by ensuring that nothing positive is allowed to make it to the front page. No sir, criticism of the government is a sign of enlightenment amongst the GT magazine crowd and they love to show how pro-democracy they are and how much they represent the forces of moderation in Pakistan. Do the really represent anyone in Pakistan except themselves? The point is that the media has been a disgrace and should have been more responsible and people like Hameed Haroon should finally stop taking their monthly stipends from the CIA and show some loyalty to the country of their forefathers. Western media does criticize, but it does not cross and break every boundary as does Pakistani media. New freedom has been totally abused and I am glad that some rules will be put back in place.

7. The war on terror is a war not only on Islam, but all muslim countries one by one. We should steer clear of it and tell the Americans and their Zionist masters to go Screw their themselves. Enlightened moderation is bullshit. Please stop trying to come up with a new Deen-e-Ilahi and stick to your job as the leader of the country, not the faith. Meddling in this will get you killed and there will be no sympathy for you in any quarter except the sellout GT magazine crowd and bastard/prostitute infested "Civil Society".

8. The army really should get the hell out of everything. In fact, we should cut our budget down completely and declare unilateral peace with India. What the hell are we fighting for anyway? Its costing us both much more than its worth and there really shouldn't be any enmity anymore. The army should also be kicked out of banking, fertilizers, land development, DHA's and everything else. They should be stripped of their perks and sent back to the barracks. No more DHA, no more Askari corporation, no more the country existing for the army rather than the other way around! The armed forces should also be forced to give up all lands in and around the cities and be kicked out into the outskirts. Army people should not be compensated with land and the army should never be allowed to build DHA-like areas. These should all be returned to civilian rule.

9. Federations can only function properly if all the provinces are more or less equal. Punjab really throws all of this out of balance and steps should be taken to correct this mistake once and for all. Punjab should be split into 3 provinces; South, Central and North. This would give Pakistan 6 more or less equal provinces and Balochistan, NWFP and Sindh may have fewer legitimate complaints in the future if we take this bold step. The army should also be de-punjabized. It must represent all of Pakistan and this monopolization should be ended. I realize that many top generals come from NWFP and even amongst the Urdu speaking people, but everyone knows that the army has a punjabi culture and we must change that to make everyone feel that it is theirs.

10. Benazir, Nawaz, Altaf, Fazlur Rehman, Qazi, Bugti, Pir Pagara, and all other leaders that we have seen so far are all traitors. I wish the extremists would take them out instead of innocent people. The people should finally wake up and come up with a new set of people to represent them. PPP is a party of feudals. MQM is a terrorist party. PML is a punjabi party, not a Pakistani party..they always did what they did for Punjab and Lahore and didn't do much for Karachi with taxes mostly paid by Karachites. Qazi and FazlurRehman are munafiqs who misuse religion for their own gains while they secretly party it up in Dubai with underage hookers and gigolos. Not kidding!!

11. There is an exercise taking place right now to destabilize Pakistan in which Bibi, the lawyers, the media and others are all participating for their own ends. This will probably end up taking us to civil war. As drastic as this sounds, I think Mushy should have taken some tough decisions and actually really come down hard on these elements before. Now its almost too late. He should have executed a few of these elements for treason and all of these photo op people would have immediately backed off to their normal positions. Now, he has no choice but to try to smooth things out and hope for the best. He will probably compromise with Bibi and seal all of our fates with this witch from hell.

12. Mark my words, Bibi will cause a civil war. She is arrogant, a slave to foreign interests, totally insincere, completely misguided, surrounded by feudals/thugs/prostitutes/social climbers, unable to work with others, easily makes enemies for life, hated by the army, hated by most people who remember what she and her husband have done to our country.

God, I pray for a miracle!

Masadi sahib,

Maybe it is high time Pakistan followed Costa Rica's example (which disbanded its military just to avoid military coup) and abolished its army altogether. Seriously speaking Pakistan does not face any external threat, neither India nor Iran nor China would want to attack Pakistan and even if they do Paki nukes can take care of them. The real threat Pakistan faces are internal insurgency (which are best tackled by combination of political and developmental effort and paramilitary forces) and lack of institutions.

Regards

Unlike the ignoramus Goldfinger who points fingers at individuals, I look at the institutions of state and military, how they interact and what results that has produced, more of the same BS will produce more of the same. The military as a factor needs to be taken care of, it needs to be removed from ALL matters of the state and all incursions into industry and all feudal aspirations. In fact the people of Pakistan need to oust this occupation force of the Americans from our soil. They need to be ousted and thrown out, lock stock and barrel

skeptical writes "As I have said before Police state should be condemned in whatever Government arrangement we are refering to"

When politicians have to operate under the military gun either explicit as today or implicit in the "sham democracy", that is no democracy, but even the sham democracy is to be preferred to outright BS of the Musharraf kind. Goldfinger is a mere apologist for dictatorship, he as well as Musharraf want to kill the nation and its institutions in order to "save" it. The corruption of the military dictators is second to none, it is corruption on a society wide level, not the personal level of the politicians. If the military as a factor is removed, and with it the imperial decree, the politicians in Pakistan will cure their corruption, guaranteed, as they people will take care of them if they don't, together with the military gone, we will need curbs on industry, nationalization by the people would be a good start and the breakup of the feudal system, the military, feudal and the industry/neo feudal nexus of power is what creates corruption among the politicians, they are not born corrupt, they simply haven't been given room enough to grow, applying more of the same bs, military dictatorship will do nothing to fix the problem, on the other hand, the corruption of this nexus will far exceed any personal corruption of the BB or NS or anyone else...

The conspiracy theory is there or is the movement self spiralling.
Remember in 1977 when dollars were poured in to eliminate popular Bhutto, but ultimately it was coup which eliminated him.
If the supreme court has suddendly decided to amend its past inactivity by being proactive by meddling in all the affairs of state and giving it a right direction. Does it has the legal authority to enforce its decision. That is the job of Administartion. How does Judiciary expect to enforce its decision with a hostile administration. Or to put it another way, once the judiciary's job is over (getting rid of Musharraf and weakening the Pakistan Army and defence) what in the world can guarantee that they will continue to be proactive in future and will not be BOUGHT by new administration. (Remember they could do nothing when Nawaz S was returned to Holy Land)
APDM broke Maulana FazlurRehman parted way with JI. Nawaz Sharif was abusing BB for partnership with Musharraf till few weeks back now wants to ally with BB for its survival in Punjab against their old friend Pervez Ilahi.
Let these people fight for something better than their "Kursi".
Moreover at this crucial moment when survival of Pakistan is at stake, we need to come up with a better plan than to fragment the society further behind people who have no better agenda than getting their hands in the pie.
Musharraf and his advisors are to blame for some rash decisions which have resulted in alienation of people of Pakistan. We should not hasten the demise of Pakistan by fragmenting the society further.
Are our leaders ready to take the destiny of Pakistan and its people. Let's give MQM, FazlurRehman and Pervez Ilahi (and whoever wants to do so rather than doing only agitation)another chance to continue to serve their constituency. Lets leave the defense and foreign policy of Pakistan in the hands of defense forces as has been norm since 1977.

no dish for you...

Authorities stop sale of satellite dishes in Islamabad

* Prices of satellite dish antennae rise in Rawalpindi and Islamabad

By Aamir Yasin

RAWALPINDI/ISLAMABAD: Authorities stopped the sale of satellite dish antennae on Tuesday in a bid to prevent people from accessing private TV channels for the latest political developments concerning the state of emergency.

Police visited various markets in and around the twin cities and verbally ordered shopkeepers selling dish antennae to close down their shops or face stern action.

Price hike: The government has already pulled news channels and cable networks are only airing entertainment channels, a move that caused a sharp increase in the sale of dish antennae and digital receivers nationwide. The price of a dish antenna rose from Rs 5,500 to Rs 9,000 in Rawalpindi and from Rs 5,000 to Rs 20,000 in Islamabad as a result.

In Rawalpindi, shopkeepers told Daily Times that police visited Imperial Market, Raja Bazaar, Iqbal Road, Commercial Market, Chotta Bazaar, Saddar and DAV College Road and told shopkeepers to close their stores immediately.

Plainclothesmen were deployed in and around the markets to keep an eye on the shops that dealt in dish antennae and accessories.

Muhammad Kareem, a shopkeeper in the electronics market on DAV College Road, said that the demand for dish antennae had risen tremendously after the state of emergency was imposed in the country and that he had sold more than 50 sets.

“There are two main wholesale dealers of dish antennae in Rawalpindi – Kamran Electronics and Antennaways - and they had to close their shops,” Kaleem Ahmad, a shopkeeper, said.

In Islamabad, dish antenna shops in Aabpara, Blue Area, Super Market, Jinnah Super Market, F-10, G-8, G-9 and other markets were closed. However, the sale of dish antennae continues, as people are willing to pay extra to get them on the black market.

Re: # 100

bubba,

calm down ! ..... everything will be just fine as soon as geo is back on air and the politicians can go back to yelling at each other ... two more days and fazloo and bb will be falling over each other trying to cut a deal with mushy ..... the only real impact of this emergency thing will be that some lawyers might have to buy new suits ........ and don't worry about the silly cj; he will get a cushy job in the next administration .... who knows, he might even become the president one day ........

As the CJ Iftikhar Choudary asked us, we must continue our struggle to get rid of this nuisance megalomaniac General Musharraf. This General and his administration has become a liability to the nation of Pakistan.

sue-u-2: Those are brave men and women indeed. Musharraf knows that terrorists are in fact his job security - and it is these lawyers and the rule of law that they represent that he truly fears.

I don't know much about Pakistan. However I've been very inspired by the judicial systems and lawyers rising up for thier rights in Pakistan. I beleive the American system is one of the best in the world but we do get carried away by billable hours *grin*


/fh

whose left? .....the sufi's !!!

"we wont let a few thugish landlords and their indentured slaves decide the destiny of Pakistan, and you can add to that a few ignorant pathans and their more ignorant mullahs"

yar borivli, you take away landlords, slaves, pathans and mullahs then whats left? who are these theykedards of pakistan that who decide the destiny exactly?

The Freedom Agenda Fizzles
How George Bush and Condoleezza Rice made a mess of Pakistan.
By Fred Kaplan
Posted Monday, Nov. 5, 2007, at 7:18 PM ET
(Continued from page 1)

We can't do much about this now, but we might have been able to do something about it two years ago or six months ago. The fact that we didn't is a grave indictment of Bush's foreign policy, both its practices and its principles.

For instance, nearly all of the $10 billion in U.S. military aid to Pakistan has gone to its military. Bush could have at least tried to funnel a larger portion of the aid to democratic institutions.

This crisis was triggered last March when Musharraf fired the chief justice of the Supreme Court for criticizing his rule. That set off the unprecedented street rallies by the nation's lawyers. That emboldened the Supreme Court, which started to take its duties seriously. That gave rise to the near-certainty that the court would rule Musharraf's reign illegal. That tipped Musharraf to suspend the constitution—and, with it, the courts.

Since Bush officials stay in touch with Musharraf quite frequently, and since they are known to pay at least lip service to democracy, someone could have at least advised Musharraf to get off this track. No one could have expected him to turn democrat, but he could have taken palliative measures—or cynical ones: for instance, paying off the justices—to ward off a crisis.

The Bush foreign policy was neither shrewd enough to play self-interested power politics nor truly principled enough to enforce its ideals.

One consequence of this crisis is that Bush's "freedom agenda" is finally bankrupt. He will never again be able to invoke it, even as a rhetorical ploy, without evoking winces or laughter.

In his second inaugural address, where Bush first declared that the main aim of his foreign policy would be to spread democracy and topple tyranny all around the world, he warned dictators that good relations with America "would require the decent treatment of their own people."

Musharraf's proclamation is the definitive proof that no dictator takes—or ever will again take—that warning seriously.

In the same address, Bush spun an appealing but specious syllogism: Tyranny breeds discontent; discontent breeds hatred and terrorism; terrorism threatens U.S. security; therefore, promoting democracy enhances U.S. security. Or, as he put it, "America's vital interests and our deepest beliefs are now one."

Musharraf's proclamation, and Bush's muted response to it, proves that interests and ideals, alas, still sometimes clash.

But the most dismaying contradiction appears in the 2006 edition of the official document titled "The National Security Strategy of the United States of America." In his introduction, Bush wrote, "We seek to shape the world, not merely be shaped by it; to influence events for the better instead of being at their mercy."

Musharraf's proclamation reveals that we are not the "sole superpower" that Bush and his associates thought we were; that sometimes the combination of vital interests and mediocre diplomacy put us all too desperately at the mercy of events.