Religiosity, National Ethos and Governance

Re: # 4
"Laddu....have you even asked yourself what Khilafat is? I mean, people seem to have a knee-jerk reaction to Shariah or the concept of Khilafat. Tell me how wonderfully democracy and capitalism are working out for 30% of America's poor."

Mian Zyrix,

I speak from an idolator's point of view. I do not care if your khilafat is called democracy or not - for me it is the road to hell for an idolator.

Tell me my dear sir, Would you allow an idolator like me be the Khalifa of the momeen country??????????????????

Zyxius: You are right in saying that Pakistani mainstream parties have not delivered. But the religious parties are no alternative. That has not just myself saying this, but has in fact been the verdict of the vast majority of Pakistani people to date. If in future the majority of the Pakistani people chose to elect a legislature that by the necessary majority changes the Pakistani Constitution (not the PCO) that makes one indivdiual a khalifa and law-giver in the name of God as the islamic parties would like to see (in other words, institutionalizes dictatorship in Pakistan, and thus turns Pakistanis from a free people into a "raayaa" of one man), fine. But till that day, maulvis can come to power only the way any thug comes to power - via force.

I have to beg leave for now. I applaud your civilized manner of conduct, even as I beg to disagree with you on these fundamental points.

Re: # 10

zyxius mian,

" When our soldiers die protecting our country, they are called Shaheed! "

..... don't forget that the horrible hindoos also call their dead soldiers shaheed - and their guys have done a much better job of protecting their country ....... if i remember correctly, al-lah mian's soldiers haven't won a single battle ..... these goons in khaki keep on banging their heads against the ground five times a day and praying for more plots in defence ....

..... this article is not worth reading - i am sure it is the same old bullshit about how the muslims need to follow the koran and sunnah or else .......... nonsense! ...... this dog don't hunt !

#22 Posted by Zyxius Behen,

Then you go on to insult all Islamic scholars by lumping them into one "Maulvi" category ...

This is unfortunately the arrogance of the 2% or less secular / liberal civil society of Pakistan which has brought the country to this pathetic state. By ridiculing and dismissing the politico-religious parties (which are actually more democratic internally than the secular ones), they handed the ball to the apolitical militant Islamist movements (thankfully), who have thrown it back at them in a lethal curve they can't avoid smashed with in the face.

Zbigniew Berzinsky, the US National Security Adviser who was responsible for this whole affair has repeatedly stated throughout history that this was an Islamic war ...

Yeah, actually, Reagan himself had called them 'Moral equivalents of our founding fathers' on the White house lawns. I.e. the same 'Moulvis'. What's the problem now?

Well, I'm still glad it was the Islamic Jazba that has protected us all from speaking Russian today and has given you the privilege of being able to be so unkind to the followers of that faith. And if, God forbid, we face violence in our country, lets see how many of you stick around to do something about it. I remember as I kid I, my family, and almost everyone I know contributed in some way or another in the Soviet War and we even know many people who fought in that war. You instantly term any khilafat as a dictatorship without even considering that it may not necessarily be so. You do not even bother to try to take Islam as a basis for further building of our society and institutions...you just want to jump ship and become the white man's "house nigger". What is so wrong with trying to make our religion our own, instead of trying to abandon it and running for another identity?! You can deny it all you like, but thats that privilege they already paid with their lives for. Cherish it while it lasts because it looks like another sacrifice will soon be required and I doubt very much that the secularists will be up to it.

beta zeemax

long time, no yahoodi conspiracy stories???

anyway,
regarding Union of Islamic Califart, shouldn't it be UICSA, coming very close to USCIS, u.s. immigration services

#37 Posted by Zyxius,

Let me take you on a little memory trip. The Afghan Jihad against Soviets had started much before USA jumped in. When those morons saw potential in the Jihadis, they started to pump in support through Pakistan, and not before.

In short, the Afghan Jihad was intrinsic and spontaneous by the Musalmaan Afghans. USA entered the picture when it felt it could get something for its money, and did, and then pulled out of the picture.

It's quite another story that the same picture (wall frame and all)is being shoved in its rear-end now.

Let me take you on a little memory trip. The Afghan Jihad against Soviets had started much before USA jumped in.

Miyan,

The jehad started since the days of medina.......nothing special about that ......... it would continue till the day the kafirs remain alive......

No??

Re: # 37

zyxius,

"Well, I'm still glad it was the Islamic Jazba that has protected us all from speaking Russian "

.... nonsense! ... do you really think the russians would have invaded pakistan ???? .....why?.... oh let me see, because they want a warm water port ! ..... same old crap

........ as for the afghans, it would have been much better if the russians had stuck around for a couple of hundred years so that they could have taught them how to take a bath and not have sex with their pet sheep ......

...... islamic jazba cannot even protect us against body odor - we need deodrant

Re: # 41


as a matter of fact, the biggest mistake pakistan ever made was supporting the us jihad against russia in afghanistan ..... during the russian occupation you could buy a five gallon jerrycan of vodka in peshawar for a hundred rupees !

........now there is no vodka, just suiciders drunk on imaan !

Zeemax writes "The Afghan Jihad against Soviets had started much before USA jumped in. When those morons saw potential in the Jihadis"

Actually that depends on who you say, if you ask ZB, he says they lured the soviets in by helping the Jihadis first. In any case were it not for US help, and the potential bearing Jihadis would have amounted to nothing. The US didn't see any potential in them, they were a butt of CIA jokes for being quite rag tag and bad shots, but what the US did see in them was their willingness to die for a cause and they were willing to expend the very last one of them that is why compared to the Soviet losses the losses of the Jihadis were enormous, they lost around 1 to 2 million with another 2 million displaced inside the country, and 5 million refugees that went to Iran and Paksitan, while the Soviets lost around 50,000. Not to mention the butchering of the Jihadi on Jihadi war after the US and Soviets left- that my friend was no picture of heaven or justice. You are on the wrong side Zee, you are not on the side of Islam but on the side of the Crusader's caricature of Islam brought to life by a frankenstein that the West created...

in #43 read "Actually that depends on who you say"

as "Actually that depends on who you ask..."

Re: # 23

malik99

If u wish to exchange civilized ideas then Don't take things out of context, if the idea is crap shoot then thats a different thing.

Afghan rebels funded by US/Saudi petrodollars and armed with western armament inflicted heavy casualties on the soviet empire. Had they not succeeded we wud be speaking russian, well maybe that wud hv been the best thing for a country which has yet to decide whether they want arabic or urdu.

Zyxius writes "You do not even bother to try to take Islam as a basis for further building of our society and institutions...you just want to jump ship and become the white man's "house nigger". What is so wrong with trying to make our religion our own, instead of trying to abandon it and running for another identity"

Whose Islam, Khomenis or Osamas, or yours or mine? First you have to clarify that; due to heavy interference of the political in the religion field when you talk of Islam you are talking of a politically perverted version, perverted through centuries of manipulation, interpretation and addition. If I say the Quran says such and so and is perfectly compatible with freedom and democracy, you Jihadi types jump up and say but the hadith says such and so. Then you all have very conveniently borrowed the terminology of the left and the scholarship of the left for your perverted agenda of not only implementing a gross distortion of Islam, but a system that you have manufactured and closed from any further thought or inquiry. There is little difference between Musharraf's call of dictatorship to preserve and promote democracy and your call of "Islam" for social justice, when we see very well what your types do when their absolute authority which they usurp and attribute to God does to peoples minds and their ability to grow as human beings and fulfill their purpose of existance that God has set for them, "to see which one of you is best in deed". No thanks to the dark ages of Crusader inspired "Islam"- which is an outrage against the Quran and an outrage against all that is decent and human

#40 Posted by laddu,

Actually that's true. Where did you learn that?

#43 Posted by masadi

You are on the wrong side Zee, you are not on the side of Islam

If Islam is nothing but Qura'an, and if it means what it says, that's my side. I don't bother much with exotic interpretations. And if the numbers you quote are correct (they lost around 1 to 2 million), I will need a lot of convincing to know that they died for nothing.