Cholesterol Say Paak

masadi mian,

.... talk is cheap, mutton is not ....... tell me, did you try to get to liaqat bagh yesterday or did you stay home and watch the cricket match on dish ?....... nobody i know - and some of them are ppp 'jiyalas' - went out yesterday ...... as my nephew said, 'uncle, jalsay jaloos tau hotay rahtey hain; cricket match kabhi kabhi hota hai"

........ musharraf's timing of the emergency was impeccable - indian cricket tour, wedding season, bakr eid, thanksgiving, christmas , new year's eve, valentines day .......... he know his people very well ...

Re: # 56
He is not making this point that " masses have not been mobilized because they dont understand how they will benefit from democracy this time round since they never have in the past"

Look he has cited PPP's strong showing on 18th October as evidence of non relevance of certain issues which are a reflection of middle class mentality.
I am questioning the selective use of mass protest to support stance...
I feel it bewildering that on 18th "un washed masses" slapped urban middle class and media manufactured issues by turning up in large numbers..
While those were not even there when ZAB was hanged...
ZAB was popular in the masses....So using his own logic will I be correct if I say that masses endorsed ZAB's death...
He was unpopular with conservative elements, Industrialists and urban middle class at that point of time...not with masses...

People are in this country not organized for collective action….They can only come out through the organizational apparatus of a well entrenched political party such as PPP and that too only when the State allows them the luxury…So appearnce of masses on 18th October and lack of masses in this emergency state has to be viewed from this angle also…
If today emergency is lifted and government allows political activity, the same masses will appear if BB gives a call to protest on apprently irrelevant anal middle class issues such as uniform etc…

Paracha has a pretty solid following among the "left-wing" students of LUMS, even though he has continued to refuse offers to speak there. He makes good points here, but I do not agree with him on some. So what if, as he says, the liberals and conservatives and extremists are coming upon a single platform. Let them get rid of a dictatorship and let the people decide whom they want during an elections.
But Paracha is right in saying that a contradictory middle class morality has stung the media and the civil society. I think this is his main problem. He lives in Karachi and it is true that so far Karachites' response to the emergency has been lukewarm. Few days ago when some journalists were being thrashed outside the press club, I saw many onlookers actually taunting them and appluading the cops. It was hearbreaking.

Even with a so called democratic dispensation, the military will still be in charge (as much as you can be in this country) they don't need a dictator for that. If the military rules openly with a figurehead in charge they will be responsible for their fuckups rather than projecting them onto their frontmen/women and completely discrediting democracy in the eyes of many paki's .

#56 Posted by cliftonbridge:

".... lets sow the seeds now...". I think the seeds are being sown. More and more unwashed are talking about the constitution. They just call it by a different name. A version of this constitution may very well be passed and "voting" for this constitution may very not be very civil.

clifton writes "Before 99 we had 35% of pakis below the poverty line , now that percentage is 23%. Those are not unimportant numbers"

Whose "poverty line", Musharraf's? According to world bank data over 84% of Pakistanis live below $2 a day, with possibly half of them under $1 a day. Poverty in absolute numbers as well as percent of population has not been reduced during the Musharraf era, in fact given runaway inflation the fate of the common man and woman is much worse than it was in 99

clifton writes "Before 99 we had 35% of pakis below the poverty line , now that percentage is 23%. Those are not unimportant numbers"

Whose "poverty line", Musharraf's? According to world bank data over 84% of Pakistanis live below $2 a day, with possibly half of them under $1 a day. Poverty in absolute numbers as well as percent of population has not been reduced during the Musharraf era, in fact given runaway inflation the fate of the common man and woman is much worse than it was in 99

#54 Posted by masadi:

"Small movements can sometimes gather momentum to make a greater difference than sitting on your ass, and driving around town will not lead you to the "uncivil" society because roads have been constructed with the needs of the civil society in mind."

Very well said!

Re: # 56

does the average person in the us care? what explains dubya then?

having said that, the average person probably does care but doesnt want to expend the energy needed to make change. we see it all the time around us at work, etc.

skeptic i think NFP is right in saying the masses have not been mobilized because they dont understand how they will benefit from democracy this time round since they never have in the past.

Before 99 we had 35% of pakis below the poverty line , now that percentage is 23%. Those are not unimportant numbers. If we had 50% living below the poverty line that would be a revolution.

Similarly hudood is not important to anyone in pakistan except a marginal elite. Bhutto was also kind of unpopular before he was hanged.

The glorious vague ideals of democracy are hard to follow for most people. Democracy takes time.... lets sow the seeds now...even rotten seeds will eventually give life to a gulmohar someday. That just doesnt have much street power.

Its not a question of moral right its a question of whether the average person (not the average rich person)really cares.

Re: # 53
I want him to answer the queries....
Read post number 6.....

GT writes "The guy must be a total looser ... braging about his debate with some teenage kids here in chowk ... kind of pathetic. "

Loser maybe but frustrated yes, because as part of the "civil society" he has been unable to cause any change or to make any dent in the power structure. So with frustration come different reactions, some make a deal with the devil and have a jolly good time, others fight against themselves and their own demons, a kind of schizophrenia- like the author is doing, yet others keep on with the struggle trying to raise consciousness in both the "civil" and "uncivl, as he calls it" society. The author has taken the path of a loser, his own failures he has attributed to the failure of all those who seek to make some change. By the way full stomachs give better insights into viewing the larger picture and not keeping busy with your own personal circuits, maybe that is why more of the "civil" society who have not sold out to the devil, and have a social conscience try to "react" to these things. Small movements can sometimes gather momentum to make a greater difference than sitting on your ass, and driving around town will not lead you to the "uncivil" society because roads have been constructed with the needs of the civil society in mind. Paracha, get a life and quit discouraging people who have the spirit of resistance regardless of their tiny numbers....

Hey guys,

I dont think its fair to attack writers when they arent around to respond. Please desist, thanks.

Re: # 51
Well I wont go to the extent of calling him a total loser....
He is an egoist nevertheless..
He writes entire article if some one even opposes him in a personal meeting…
There was an article on chowk by Mr NFP which originated because a TV journalist had turned down his request to abstain showing a so called anti Darwin video on her TV channel. She apparently had taunted him on being “retro socialist and out of sync with modern ideas…”
But he does need to clarify his position properly and stop usage of allegations such as “confused self contradictory half baked philosophy” to refute his contrary opinions…
He just uses it to wriggle himself out of tight spots…. When logic fails-he comes up with a sweeping allegation…..

#50 Posted by Skeptical:

Agreed. I do not know this Paracha guy but he seems to be some kind of a radical idol in Pakistan. I re-read the article after reading your post and I do agree with what you say. The guy must be a total looser ... braging about his debate with some teenage kids here in chowk ... kind of pathetic.

Re: # 41
Yeah I think unfortunately NFP sort are interpreted as "rebel" by many....
I just think he needs to clarify his position and contradictions to actually be vindicated.....
I keep on hearing about self righteous middle class and its confused leaders and the plight of down trodden by VTI driving and Grammer School educated people like NFP...
I have raised some issues in my post no 6....
These issues are not only about his contradictions in his personal life but also the selective use of “masses” to make his point….
So masses turn out on 18th October is cited as evidence of “non issue” status of NRO and lawyers movement …
And whereas lack of mass protest on ZAB’s death or things like Hudood ordinance is being conveniently ignored…
My point is that masses showing up should not be a criteria for making a viewpoint….
And if you decide to make basis of a viewpoint than be consistent across the board…