Cholesterol Say Paak

mr paracha, were u on cbc a few days ago?
the person who was on cbc had this weird notion that shutting down the tv stations was a welcome idea coz they were not doing anything good anyway - very autocratic thinking if u ask me

Paracha Sahib, I think you are confusing “Civilians”, vis-à-vis the Military, the Lawyers, the Uniformed. And so on. That’s what the “civil society” implies, at least in the rest of the world, and it does include un-civil (as you put it) as well (so long as they are not “uniformed”. I could be wrong.

Hope all is well with you. It appears from the outside that things are pretty eff’d up.

It also a term that refers to people that come together for a cause (usually against State).

Uncivil society has changed since Zias' time. Only in sindh do the great unwashed look to BB for salvation.

Far greater numbers are looking to Osama.....and the sad truth is he comes good for his supporters alot more than she does.

Nadeem,

Thank you, thank you.

While the bandar tamasha of the opportunists continues, it is refreshing to hear some reason!

You are the second sane voice in this bazaar (the other sane voice being mine, of course).

with much respect,
thinking storm

I was waiting for your article and I had an instinctive hunch what you were about to say....
I want you to answer some bloody fcuking questions...... I have deliberately used fcuking because the real word though describes a hypocrite like you accurately would nevertheless be filtered out...
Mr Paracha if you are fcuking man enough to answer some questions, lets have your take about them....

1. Why do you write in a language which is elitist and understood by a only few......
2. Why despite your fcuking claims about being a "conventional" old fashioned Marxist Leninist and your fcuking tall claims to speak on the behalf of the down trodden, you have married an elitist yuppy commercial foreign banker..... why couldn’t you find some one from ordinary class for your steamy affairs and for your life partner.... After all in one of your articles you have actually made fun of Imran for marrying Jemima....Mr Paracha .... what about your own choice......
3. I am sorry I am getting personal here, but having slight "knowledge" of your immediate family, I would like to bring out your bloody hypocritical true face here.....because there are people here who like you because they think you are an "honest and straight forward" person. Your controversial style is interpreted as being fearless and straight forward…......
4. I do not blame you for certain things though, after all you got famous for writing "rebel" anti culture stuff... remember those anti culture days.....the News when you blamed Junoon for "selling the revolution....."
5. Answer Mr Paracha if Junoon sold the revolution to Coca Cola while never claiming to be "anti corporate" revolutionaries, you have actually "sold" your services to Nandos and Telenor.....If you claim to be straight forward and a true "socialist...", why have you written jingles for "elitist colonial" multinationals like Nandos and Telenor.... So the chicken crosses the road.... sounds familiar Mr NFP....... and the underpass is full of water.
6. Please do not claim that Engels was also an industrialist...
7. So you have decided to go against the grain.... why ... tell me and convince me, is it to merely reinforce your image as a "rebel" journalist or because you actually believe the crap you say....

8. You think that NRO and lawyers movement is a reflection of anal middle class mentality.... Your supporting evidence is lack of common man's protest......
Ok once again, lets have you take on it..... How many people actually came out when the most charismatic "roti Kapra makan " leader was hanged.....
At that time, due to Marshal Law of Zia people could not come out..... Would you give the same spin on that……Would you insult ZAB by saying that apparent lack of protest on his death was not because of Marshal Law but because he was a creation of anal middle class mentality….
9. By the way it took an air crash to remove Zia, he could not be removed through a popular movement…. Would you support him by saying that since no body came out Zia was a great leader…..
10. I have personally campaigned with a female NGO against Hudood Ordinance… I know for certain that majority of the lower class women were not even aware of the “Hudood” ordinance unless actually raped…. Would you cite that lack of awareness as endorsement in your articles the way you are ridiculing lawyers movement by saying that it is actually a reflection of anal middle class mentality ( interestingly u are yourself married into upper self righteous middle class family…..)
11. If public support is the true criteria for truthfulness of an idea, why you claim to be “Marxist Lenisist.” And yet support PPP when it despite retaining liberal outlook has moved away from nationalization……..In fact privatization started during PPP’s first tenure…and yet PPP’s street power and mass appeal is still intact….
12.. Answer Mr Paracha……. these entire questions one by one ……. Straight and to the point answers…..
13. I know that you will see this post…..You are an egoist person……. You have claimed in your articles that you have read a million books ( anti culture) and you are quick to answer anything which even mentions Salman Ahmed…..
14. Answer Mr Paracha
15. And answer logically and with proper supporting evidence
16. Do not say that I am self contradictory and a tableeghi or am Islamic fascist….
17.. In reality I may be far more left wing than a corporate jingle writing confused yet popular writer like you……
18. Great NFP……oh straight forward NFP…….
19. Answer !!!!

Skeptical,

I could be misreading you, but do I detect anger?


with much respect,
thinking storm

"What movement, where?"

I too underwent the same puzzlement when I heard Imran Khan telling the video (YouTube) camera. He says that he want to 'lead' the anti-Emergency movement from underground. LOL.

He ran for his life and want to make a facade of defiance. That way Asma Jehangir is the real and the ONLY MAN in Pakistan.

Nadeem,

You have eloquently described all that I have been incoherently rambling about on unplugged.

At first, I was shocked at myself as well. Why o why would I have protested against the Zia monster, and then turned around and not gone apeshit at Musharraf?

Perhaps it has to do with the hypocrisy of the "supporters" of "democracy". These very people are encouraging the completely arrogant and ignorant reactionary forces to spread and grow stronger using the gun as a weapon in nwfp, and TV in the cities.

Bravo for writing this wonderful piece!

with much respect,
thinking storm

Re: # 7 and 9
No thinkingstorm

Look I respect opposite and contrary opinions. My sign in name is Skeptical or sceptical.....
I doubt everything and this guy needs to be questioned for his own contradictions....
Mind you I have a love late relationship with this iconic writer and let me assure you a part of me perhaps admires him a lot and admires him much more than any one and certainly more than you……
People like NFP should exist, they are the benchmark for the left wing but in my humble and " confused" opinion Mr NFP does need to answer some questions....
You take his opinion to be an endorsement of your pro Musharraf stance or your anti Imran stance. You are narrowing your opinion to character assassination of anti Musharraf element… The typical approach is that anti Musharraf element is corrupt and self serving……
He is not pro Musharraf.....at least not the way you are ...He is trying to interpret and justify it through class "theory" and through liberalism is necessary at any cost approach….
The implicit idea according to my low intellectual and “contradictory half baked confused ” fcuking philosophy is that….( these are his favourite words...):

Things like independent Judiciary are purely a creation or reflection of middle class anal self righteous mentality…..
Though of far less intellectual calibre than him and having “no knowledge of geo politics”, I would like to offer my humble opinion that at times interests of self righteous anal bastard middle class and down trodden, though not explicitly realized, can actually converge….
And one should be careful when one’s own life is itself reflective of those anal middle class choices….
I have merely pointed out some contradictions …..
Let him answer them…..
And let me assure you once again that your opinion and his opinion though apparently same are not the same….
So while you praise and “respect” him for writing this wonderful piece (mainly because apparently he is pro Mushi and anti democracy or anti “sham democracy” or he endorses your view, his take is actually different ……

cricket trumps 'emergency'

..... excellent! ......... that is what i have been saying all along about this 'emergency' drama - nobody gives a hoot except for the unemployable lawyers and aunties with blonde hair who couldn't get an appointment with their hairdresser .......... it is all lufangebazi designed by mush to get rid of the pesky cj ..... bb, bush, fazloo and the uncivil allah rakha from lalamusa all know this ...... i think i saw bush wink when he asked mush to hold the elections on time and bb couldn't help smirking when she asked him to take off his uniform ........

...... what a load of crap ! the cricket match was much more exciting and unlike the emergency i don't think it was fixed ......

Government Refuses to Arrest Imran Khan

ISLAMABAD, Nov 9, 2007: Tehrik-i-Insaf leader Imran Khan was refused arrest by the Federal Government when he presented himself at the Abpara Police Station this morning. Eyewitnesses report that Imran Khan showed up alone at 9:00 am and demanded to be arrested for violating the PCO. The SHO and constables laughed at him and refused to comply with his request. He was offered a cup of tea and some biscuits, but he refused and tried to lock himself up in an empty cell. The police staff on duty resumed their card game and the SHO tried to persuade Imran Khan to come out of the cell by offering him chapli kabab from Peshawar More. It is a tense stand-off.

Hamid Saab, you might have to eat your words when you see hordes as well as herds of civil and uncivil servants and other Pakistanis after Allah Puja tomorrow, the holy day of Jumma. Masadi will be leading uncivil and uncouth Jaloos of unemployed sociologists. Down with Mushy. I predict scores will be killed tomorrow in Pindi, either by a isiuicide bomb or by Police. Please don't go out. Thanks.

skeptical,

thanks for your response.

I understand that Nadeem has a different view of Musharraf than I do. What he and I appear to share is the healthy dose of skepticism we have of the so called lovers of "democracy".

IF your ideas are half baked, mine haven't even been kneaded yet, so do excuse me for my simplistic views :)
with much respect,
thinking storm

"he SHO and constables laughed at him and refused to comply with his request. He was offered a cup of tea and some biscuits, but he refused and tried to lock himself up in an empty cell. The police staff on duty resumed their card game and the SHO tried to persuade Imran Khan to come out of the cell by offering him chapli kabab from Peshawar More. It is a tense stand-off."

Hamidm,

this has to be one of the funniest things I have read today !
with much respect,
thinking storm

Skeptical,

Being the moorakh that I am, I look at everything thru rose colored glasses.

But since you are a skeptic, allow me to play one for a few minutes.

"..let me assure you a part of me perhaps admires him a lot and admires him much more than any one and certainly more than you……"

Wha? How would you know that? Maybe you are right and I don't know NFP from a hole in the ground, maybe you are wrong and I am NFP himself, and extremely narcissistic! [no, I am not NFP, but you knew that]

"You take his opinion to be an endorsement of your pro Musharraf stance or your anti Imran stance."

I cannot take any an article by NFP to be an endorsement of my views because: 1) He prolly does not know of me or my views and 2) He has not addressed my opinions, just his own. So no, I don't take it as an endorsement :)

"You are narrowing your opinion to character assassination of anti Musharraf element…"

Nope. No character assassination going on. I am merely calling a spade a spade. You can browse my iLogs at your leisure.

"I would like to offer my humble opinion that at times interests of self righteous anal bastard middle class and down trodden, though not explicitly realized, can actually converge…."

I agree. Sometimes they can. At this moment, democracy and the stability of the country are at odds.

"So while you praise and “respect” him for writing this wonderful piece (mainly because apparently he is pro Mushi and anti democracy or anti “sham democracy” or he endorses your view, his take is actually different ……"

wait wait. I praise his piece for its anti-sham democracy point of view. I don't think he is endorsing my pov, how could he? I am not anti-democracy. I just think the a-holes that are our candidates do not cut it. I am anti-BB, he is pro BB :) see...there are other differences.

This was a fun exercise!

with much respect,
thinking storm

Re: # 13

kulharee,

..... you know me well ..... i honestly hope the civil and uncivil paki society does come out tomorrow to put an end to military rule once and for all ........ but i doubt it .... the problem is with the political leadership - the people just don't trust them ....

...... but i sincerely hope nobody is killed, unless it is a bus load of jihadis who are in a hurry to have sex in heaven ......

Re: # 14
Why are you even assuming that I doubt you intelligence...
Let me assure you that you are much more justified in your opinion than apparently “intellectually appealing” opinion of NFP…..
Brother (if you allow a low intellect middle class individual like me to actually call you that), I respect every one’s opinion. Unfortunately one has to eventually come up with a position, and my position though incorporating your viewpoint will be somewhat different….
Let Mr baghiraja (his sign in name) answer certain probing “low intellect questions….”
Brother, even icons like NFP need to be probed and questioned…He has taken explicit positions, has ripped apart many people, so lets ask him a few “frank” questions…..
In my opinion though u agree with his stance, u should also question him….
After all NFP keeps on talking of ordinary people…
So he should be having a big heart to answer low intellect half baked bastard questions from anal middle class like us…

#14 Septic yaar, please shut up already. No one here really cares about the iconoclastic stature of Paracha or any other Pakistani journalists/bhangis. We here at Chowk like Paracha for his drugs lifestyle. His views are his views and should not be taken as journalistic intake. Now wait for him to come back and address a few of your concerns.

Hamid Saab. I hope so too, but I am skeptical.

Re: # 19
yaar I just made one post asking Mr NFP and that is it...
I will shut up....
I do no want to offend you if you love his "rebel" drug/bhangi lifstyle....
Naraz mat ho......
Bhai....

Re: # 12 Gerneral have not arresting BIG Khan just punctured his political arrier. This is anticlimax.

Re: # 21

ahmedmadani sahib,

.... the big khan left abpara police station and is now headed to rawalpindi to offer his arrest at the raja bazar police station ........ he is desperately trying to get arrested, but the government is ignoring him - this is sheer discrimination ! ....... the constitution must be restored so that he can have the right to be arrested like any other citizen ......... this is shameful !

LAHORE, Nov 13, 2007: The million man march called for by Ms. Bhutto started at 9:00 am at Regal Chowk. Fifteen minutes later, it ended at Nirala Sweet House on Beadon Road where mithai was distributed to the more than 24 leaders and workers who had marched the half mile surrounded by five hundred policemen, hijras from ghoray shah, and tabalchis from heera mandi. An impromtu mujra was performed by the hijras and the tabalchis. The dancing girls failed to show up for the event because of threats by the MMA.

Sherry Rehman complained that she received jalebis whereas the male members of the central committee were given ladoos and burfi. Ms. Bhutto promised to take action.A one kilo box of mixed mithai was sent to Ch. Aitizaz Hussain who is still in Adiala Jail.

NFP Touche....

Uncivil/Unwashed masses Zindabad!


Jab Tak Pakistan Rahay Ga

Bhutto Tera Naam Rahay Ga


Jiyala

"Jab Tak Pakistan Rahay Ga

Bhutto Tera Naam Rahay Ga

tu qabar se jald wapas aa - nahin tu

har Bhutto badnaam rahe ga"


....sorry Ras couldnt resist !

Clifton Mian,

Looks like Benazir has been placed under house arrest.

That Qabar is getting stronger by the day.

The people from the other side of the bridge still say:


Jab Tak Pakistan Rahay Ga

Bhutto Tera Naam Rahay Ga


Aur wohi in a paigham rahay ga......

But seriously, why does she still retain such a large

vote bank? It makes one wonder...


hamim,

I would vote for a stop at Nirala Sweets too.

Too much politics these days on CHOWK.

We all need to lighten up and indulge in some Merlot.

This is either a storm in a teacup or a

teacup in a storm!!!!

As long as they don't start arresting the dancing

girls and the hijras too....

Yaar skeptical, just give this UKP a bhara hua charas ka cigarette and he will start arguing from the other side.

Two bit journalists are a dime a dozen.

Yes, that aunty's pic was funny. Good read this, because I wonder where civil society vanishes when there are keepers of the faith burning CD shops and planting bombs.

Bridge,

Come out and admit the truth!

You are merely jealous of the BeeB because of her youth, her beauty, her charm and her other virtues commonly associated with the fair sex.

NFP

Jee Rukh, keep writing, this was pertinent and timely reminder of the hypocrisy in our society. Thanks

#29 Posted by bjkumar,

You are merely jealous of the BeeB because of her youth

Her youth? Bhai BeeB is 54 yrs old, and not even alum baths help her.

Is she young in your comparison? Ohh ... no dig on age but in that case you must be about 68.

Why not me!

ISLAMABAD Nov 10, 2007: Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaaf Chairman, Imran Khan, complained to the Human Rights Commission that inspite of his best efforts the government was refusing to arrest him. "Today they even arrested Benazir Bhutto at the request of the US administration," he said. "Why arn't they arresting me? Am I not worthy of being a leader?" the Big Khan said. A spokesperson for the Home Ministry laughed when asked why the government was discriminating against Imram Khan.

Re: # 22 General has more knowledge of military strategy than Big Khan. He has defeated him by refusing to fight and this must be most pathetic movement in life. It proves Sindhi , punjabis are no match for MQM brain, iit is not race comment it is facts.

..... everybody in pindi and islamabad is pissed off at the government for making life miserable ....... nobody can get to work or go to school and the butchers have raised the price of mutton .......

......... finally ,abdul paki is getting pissed off! ...... if the price of milk and tomatoes goes up mushy is a goner .......

Re: # 31

zeemax,

....... you must admit that she looks pretty good for a 54 year old woman ..... if she lost 10-15 pounds i would vote for her

#35 Posted by hamidm2,

Yeah she had a face lift plus eyelid surgery last year to remove the crow's feet and wrinkles around the eyes.

Re: # 33

LOL

yep Nehru was a true visionary.

Re: # 36

zee its called Botulinum toxin

Re: # 17 Posted by hamidm2 on November 8, 2007 6:09:58 pm

[..... you know me well .....] I know you well. You are just a resident comic at chowk.

Re: # 33 Posted by ahmedmadani on November 9, 2007 5:13:45 am

[It proves Sindhi , punjabis are no match for MQM brain, iit is not race comment it is facts.]

MQM having brains? If you are the proof of a mohajir brain, then only Allah can save Pakistan.

Skeptical:

I liked reading through the article just for the style. It seemed that a lot of ideas were borrowed from our own Hamid. But that is life ... you grow on the shoulder of giants.

You make an excellent point. I do not know the author, but know the type you are talking about quite well ... upper-middle class background, excellent English, casanova for leftist women, left-wing rhetoric, financed in life by relatives and/or crumbs thrown by the rich and/or NGO type organizations, and above all condescending as hell and able to criticize everything outside their own selves. But we need their kind ... just as we need the Indian actors Jeetendra and Govinda.

"Sindhi , punjabis are no match for MQM brain" ...hate to talk in stereotypes but the pushtoons are the only ones kicking ass in Pakistan at this point, while everyone else struggles to clutch at straws. Talking in stereotypes its safe to say brains have little to do with it :)
Unfortunately for us all the only intelligent strategist in pakistan today seeems to be the wicked witch Osama. Everyone else has made critical mistakes, maybe irreperable. I dont see much for anyone to gloat about.

Re: # 41

but zeemax is not a leftist...?

I read this piece, and yes it is well written, prickly and all those good things. Granted, everyone's got some payoff, some deal. But no one has been able to explain why lawyers and journalists are risking their physical safety, livlihoods and reputations in the street, day after day. Can we get some info please?

Zeemax,

Beauty is ageless!

Anyone from the Pindi and Islamabad area?

We need to know what is going on there and

also in Lahore at the moment.

Ras

And Zeemax,

The bearded goat look is so OUT!

While Mr. Paracha practices his debating skills with teenage business school students, I thought the following 2 pieces of news (from Dawn) would interest middle class confused chowkies:

SWAT, Nov 8: Armed militants captured more government installations in Swat on Thursday and announced a punishment of 15 lashes for anyone not offering prayers in Matta tehsil.
Sources said the militants took over a police post on the Shangla hills, some 35km north of Mingora.
In Charbagh, Maulana Fazlullah’s supporters took over the Pakistan-Austria Training Institute for Hotel Management. The centre was established with the financial assistance of Austria in 2003 at a cost Rs150 million. It is the only training facility in the country for hotel management and tourism in the private sector.
In Khwazakhel area, militants set on fire the police station.
A tense calm prevailed with military helicopters hovering over the area. Security forces were consolidating their positions in and around Mingora amid reports that an operation was likely.
A handout issued in Peshawar said the overall situation in Swat was under control and no untoward incident had been reported over ‘the past 48 hours’. Paramilitary forces were on high alert and educational institutions remained open.


KARACHI, Nov 8: In four trading days of the current week on the Karachi Stock Exchange, foreign investors withdrew around $185 million from equity and $50 million from government bonds.
From Monday to Thursday, market capitalisation of insurance and banking sectors declined by 6.5 per cent and 5.2 per cent, respectively.
Figures of possible outflow during the four trading days of mayhem at the market, prompted by political events, varied from analyst to analyst, but most of them thought that it could hardly have been below $160 million.
Since the aggregate foreign portfolio investment stands at $850 million (excluding those in GDRs), the outflow was a substantial 20 per cent of the overseas equity investment, traders said.
Overall, the KSE-100 index shed 491 points during the week. Volatility on Thursday, like the day earlier, was exceptionally high with the index oscillating 311 points between the low and high for the day.
In the absence of credible real-time news about the market from an independent source due to the blackout of private television channels, most healthy and wealthy investors behaved like blind men in a dark room. They had solely to rely on their stockbroker picking up the phone in order to know what the value of scrip at the time was. Until the prayers of the investors were answered and the broker was free to attend to the call, the share may have dived by several rupees leaving trail of losses in its wake.

"The bearded goat look is so OUT!"


Bj hopefully the bihari bakra look is still in .....or at least in benazirs ageless mind.

Re: # 41
Yeah I think unfortunately NFP sort are interpreted as "rebel" by many....
I just think he needs to clarify his position and contradictions to actually be vindicated.....
I keep on hearing about self righteous middle class and its confused leaders and the plight of down trodden by VTI driving and Grammer School educated people like NFP...
I have raised some issues in my post no 6....
These issues are not only about his contradictions in his personal life but also the selective use of “masses” to make his point….
So masses turn out on 18th October is cited as evidence of “non issue” status of NRO and lawyers movement …
And whereas lack of mass protest on ZAB’s death or things like Hudood ordinance is being conveniently ignored…
My point is that masses showing up should not be a criteria for making a viewpoint….
And if you decide to make basis of a viewpoint than be consistent across the board…

#50 Posted by Skeptical:

Agreed. I do not know this Paracha guy but he seems to be some kind of a radical idol in Pakistan. I re-read the article after reading your post and I do agree with what you say. The guy must be a total looser ... braging about his debate with some teenage kids here in chowk ... kind of pathetic.

Re: # 51
Well I wont go to the extent of calling him a total loser....
He is an egoist nevertheless..
He writes entire article if some one even opposes him in a personal meeting…
There was an article on chowk by Mr NFP which originated because a TV journalist had turned down his request to abstain showing a so called anti Darwin video on her TV channel. She apparently had taunted him on being “retro socialist and out of sync with modern ideas…”
But he does need to clarify his position properly and stop usage of allegations such as “confused self contradictory half baked philosophy” to refute his contrary opinions…
He just uses it to wriggle himself out of tight spots…. When logic fails-he comes up with a sweeping allegation…..

Hey guys,

I dont think its fair to attack writers when they arent around to respond. Please desist, thanks.

GT writes "The guy must be a total looser ... braging about his debate with some teenage kids here in chowk ... kind of pathetic. "

Loser maybe but frustrated yes, because as part of the "civil society" he has been unable to cause any change or to make any dent in the power structure. So with frustration come different reactions, some make a deal with the devil and have a jolly good time, others fight against themselves and their own demons, a kind of schizophrenia- like the author is doing, yet others keep on with the struggle trying to raise consciousness in both the "civil" and "uncivl, as he calls it" society. The author has taken the path of a loser, his own failures he has attributed to the failure of all those who seek to make some change. By the way full stomachs give better insights into viewing the larger picture and not keeping busy with your own personal circuits, maybe that is why more of the "civil" society who have not sold out to the devil, and have a social conscience try to "react" to these things. Small movements can sometimes gather momentum to make a greater difference than sitting on your ass, and driving around town will not lead you to the "uncivil" society because roads have been constructed with the needs of the civil society in mind. Paracha, get a life and quit discouraging people who have the spirit of resistance regardless of their tiny numbers....

Re: # 53
I want him to answer the queries....
Read post number 6.....

skeptic i think NFP is right in saying the masses have not been mobilized because they dont understand how they will benefit from democracy this time round since they never have in the past.

Before 99 we had 35% of pakis below the poverty line , now that percentage is 23%. Those are not unimportant numbers. If we had 50% living below the poverty line that would be a revolution.

Similarly hudood is not important to anyone in pakistan except a marginal elite. Bhutto was also kind of unpopular before he was hanged.

The glorious vague ideals of democracy are hard to follow for most people. Democracy takes time.... lets sow the seeds now...even rotten seeds will eventually give life to a gulmohar someday. That just doesnt have much street power.

Its not a question of moral right its a question of whether the average person (not the average rich person)really cares.

Re: # 56

does the average person in the us care? what explains dubya then?

having said that, the average person probably does care but doesnt want to expend the energy needed to make change. we see it all the time around us at work, etc.

#54 Posted by masadi:

"Small movements can sometimes gather momentum to make a greater difference than sitting on your ass, and driving around town will not lead you to the "uncivil" society because roads have been constructed with the needs of the civil society in mind."

Very well said!

clifton writes "Before 99 we had 35% of pakis below the poverty line , now that percentage is 23%. Those are not unimportant numbers"

Whose "poverty line", Musharraf's? According to world bank data over 84% of Pakistanis live below $2 a day, with possibly half of them under $1 a day. Poverty in absolute numbers as well as percent of population has not been reduced during the Musharraf era, in fact given runaway inflation the fate of the common man and woman is much worse than it was in 99

clifton writes "Before 99 we had 35% of pakis below the poverty line , now that percentage is 23%. Those are not unimportant numbers"

Whose "poverty line", Musharraf's? According to world bank data over 84% of Pakistanis live below $2 a day, with possibly half of them under $1 a day. Poverty in absolute numbers as well as percent of population has not been reduced during the Musharraf era, in fact given runaway inflation the fate of the common man and woman is much worse than it was in 99

#56 Posted by cliftonbridge:

".... lets sow the seeds now...". I think the seeds are being sown. More and more unwashed are talking about the constitution. They just call it by a different name. A version of this constitution may very well be passed and "voting" for this constitution may very not be very civil.

Even with a so called democratic dispensation, the military will still be in charge (as much as you can be in this country) they don't need a dictator for that. If the military rules openly with a figurehead in charge they will be responsible for their fuckups rather than projecting them onto their frontmen/women and completely discrediting democracy in the eyes of many paki's .

Paracha has a pretty solid following among the "left-wing" students of LUMS, even though he has continued to refuse offers to speak there. He makes good points here, but I do not agree with him on some. So what if, as he says, the liberals and conservatives and extremists are coming upon a single platform. Let them get rid of a dictatorship and let the people decide whom they want during an elections.
But Paracha is right in saying that a contradictory middle class morality has stung the media and the civil society. I think this is his main problem. He lives in Karachi and it is true that so far Karachites' response to the emergency has been lukewarm. Few days ago when some journalists were being thrashed outside the press club, I saw many onlookers actually taunting them and appluading the cops. It was hearbreaking.

Re: # 56
He is not making this point that " masses have not been mobilized because they dont understand how they will benefit from democracy this time round since they never have in the past"

Look he has cited PPP's strong showing on 18th October as evidence of non relevance of certain issues which are a reflection of middle class mentality.
I am questioning the selective use of mass protest to support stance...
I feel it bewildering that on 18th "un washed masses" slapped urban middle class and media manufactured issues by turning up in large numbers..
While those were not even there when ZAB was hanged...
ZAB was popular in the masses....So using his own logic will I be correct if I say that masses endorsed ZAB's death...
He was unpopular with conservative elements, Industrialists and urban middle class at that point of time...not with masses...

People are in this country not organized for collective action….They can only come out through the organizational apparatus of a well entrenched political party such as PPP and that too only when the State allows them the luxury…So appearnce of masses on 18th October and lack of masses in this emergency state has to be viewed from this angle also…
If today emergency is lifted and government allows political activity, the same masses will appear if BB gives a call to protest on apprently irrelevant anal middle class issues such as uniform etc…

masadi mian,

.... talk is cheap, mutton is not ....... tell me, did you try to get to liaqat bagh yesterday or did you stay home and watch the cricket match on dish ?....... nobody i know - and some of them are ppp 'jiyalas' - went out yesterday ...... as my nephew said, 'uncle, jalsay jaloos tau hotay rahtey hain; cricket match kabhi kabhi hota hai"

........ musharraf's timing of the emergency was impeccable - indian cricket tour, wedding season, bakr eid, thanksgiving, christmas , new year's eve, valentines day .......... he know his people very well ...

Re: # 63

this is interesting. would appreciate a link if this incident was covered. also, if karachi is lukewarm, what might be the reasons?

#60 Posted by masadi:

Masadi, Pakistan is shining today like India has been shining over the last few years. The quote below from today's The Sydney Morning Herald clearly indicates that poverty is fast dissapearing in Pakistan:

" General Musharraf's comrades in the military control Pakistan's epaulette empire, a $US40 billion ($43 billion) sprawl of businesses. Controlling about 10 to 15 per cent of the economy, the military is the biggest single stakeholder in Pakistan's booming economy. Property, tourism, construction, transport and telecoms, there is barely a business sector not tinted with some sort of brass hue. The generals even own a popular breakfast cereal brand, alongside bakeries, petrol stations, farms, banks and companies listed on Karachi's soaring stock exchange."

Re: # 63
I am not surprised if he popular in LUMs...
Firebrand radical appeal...
Excellent command of language...
Controversial and unconventional ....
Cool...
Has the ability to give an intellectual rationale to apparently strange opinions!!!!
But then you have yourself written left wing as "left wing"...
And in LUMs left wing is "left wing" in reality....

Mr. Paracha, I have no idea why Chowk has given a midless freak like you a dedicated space. You should stick to making midless Telenor adds.

You say : "To hell with democracy. After all, as most uncivil beings will tell you, it's easy to defend democracy on a full stomach."

To hell with you for making such a comment. Food price inflation can only be countered in a enviroment where there are indpendent instituions. Food price inflation has been the hihghest in DICTATOR Musharraf's reign. In September he announced a ficticious bumper crop only to allow his junta to make money by exporting the grain. This while 70 mio live below USD 2 a day . We have the one of the most adultarated food according to WHO because there is not instition left to consumer rights (thanks to Mushrraf again).

Leave your imagination to your Telenor adds and directing girls and boys running around the trees while it is raining. You are not much good for anything else.

neembu, the episode was filmed by some channels but since they are off, very few actually saw it, even though I think Business Plus did show a clip of it this evening during a short docu they ran on BB.

Seems like NFP , want to dismiss the whole issue as NOT WORTHY following.
Disappointing very disappointing, irrespective of who is at the fore front, whether the Devils is Black Coat , so to speak, or the Civil , One Playcard Society.
Does he has any idea , what are the issues that are involved here..?
I think not.
I have been saying this for long.
Dictators are poison to any society.

The First Dictator, alienated one whole section of this god forsaken unfortunate nation,resulting in separation, inspite
of the fact, that 5 out of 8 earlier PMs , before 55-56 were Bengalis, and Pakistan's second economic plan , was a model taught in countries like Korea.
..this First Dictator had a bit of shame in him , with the first cries of " Ayub Kutta Hai Hai " , he relinquished .

The Second Dictator , tore the very fabric of this so called unfortunate experiment of a nation, into every conceivable division.
Social,legal,provincial,regional,religious, and worst of all ethnic , the fruits of which , .......the society, both civil and un-civil is still bearing.

This Third Dictator has firmly put this 'experiment' on the Path of disintegration , .that is the bottom Line.

...and if some one is Defending , or dismissing such an obvious ... then the bottom line is the only answer.

Re: # 65 Posted by hamidm2 on November 9, 2007 8:40:26 am

[.... talk is cheap, mutton is not .......] How about daal? Good diet these days. Pakistanis will have no cholesterol problem, if they start eating chicken and daal. What do you thnik?

love2love karachi is a very diverse place. The people at the press club being beaten were karachiites... the cops were karaciites ....the ones beating the cops (actually i know from eye witnesses that the cops got beaten up first) were also karachiites.

There isnt a mass cry for democarcy because karachi suffered hugely under BB and benefited under Mush.

Masadi you are correct in suggesting that overall poverty is still shocking in pakistan. The point being made is that using the same standard (which accounts for inflation/purchasing power etc) there is less absolute poverty now than before.

BB launches election campaign !

... okay, how much do you want to bet that musharraf WILL doff his uniform before Nov 15, a provisional government WILL be announced and elections WILL be moved up to Jan 15 ?? ........ i also think that BB will be allowed to have her Long March from lahore to islamabad ...... heck, the spooks will also supply the busses and maybe even a couple of thousand marchers .....

........ at this rate chaudhary shujaat hussain and pervez elahi will be asking to get arrested ... get in line behind imran khan!

here is why .... from NYT:

"But late in the afternoon, the authorities said Ms. Bhutto’s detention could be lifted tonight, and in what appeared to be a carefully stage-managed move agreed on with the government, Ms. Bhutto emerged from her house and made a speech that was broadcast on official Pakistani television.

Ms. Bhutto said she was “listening to the voice of my conscience” and appealed to the government to end the emergency rule. She said that she had not spoken to General Musharraf and would not negotiate with him until emergency rule was ended and the Constitution revived. "

the bed we made

... what a crock of bs and dramabazi!........ can somebody post that picture of benazir and mushy getting married with condi and bush standing behind them ?

.... all we need is fazloo in bed and we will have a perfect menage a trois ....... yuck! what a disgusting thought !

Some one asked about the lukewarm response of Karachi,


Well,the present status of Karachi, is , its unofficially not a Part of Pakistan any more.... PERIOD.

its now ruled by the Zombies of a Loyal British Subject, a proud holder of British Passport, living in SAFE-HOUSE or rather Held by the Govt of Her Majesty the Queen , who was recently officially advised by the Govt of Her majesty the Queen, to restraint himself on the return of BB darling ,with the tacit approval of Mr Bush and Co.

Period.

"Well, the present status of Karachi, is , its unofficially not a Part of Pakistan any more.... PERIOD"


...actually karachi is more pakistan now than it has been in the past. They are actually supporting the army instead of being slaughtered by it. Id say thats a step up.

"ctually karachi is more pakistan "

well thats your POV

Else the exactly opposite response during the CJ - Drama , says something else.

talking about karachi, can you imagine altaph bahi in that bed too ....... poor benazir - she does have bad luck when it somes to men ..... first it was zardari and now she is stuck with these three clowns: mushy, fazloo and altaph bhai ......... maybe she can persuade mario khan .........

hamidm: I think you have caught Nostrodamiusitis from Romair. This is a terrible disease, where the victim starts coughing predictions.

Yesterday you had predicted that Musharraf would let Benazir have her rally today, that a handful of aunties would show up, and everyone would go home. Mush sent thousands of men over instead, arrested 5000 of her supporters, banned BBC and CNN broadcasts..and still couldnt keep Benazir from making a charge through the ranks of his incompetents and actually break through the first "lines of defense".

Today I see you making more predictions...alas. :-(

lol hamidm...that about sums it up ...national fcuk frenzy!! Looking at the sorry faces in that loveless bed its small wonder imran is desperately trying to evade a fate worse than death by putting himself under lock and key..... Imran unlike BB has probably got better taste in men.

Nadeem, This needed to be said, even in your "convoluted" satirical fashion. Thank you. This brings up certain questions I would like to ask your full stomached self since I am one of those somewhat disappointed in your take on El Generalissimo, but those will have to wait for now. I do agree with much of what you have said here though. Hope you're well.

To Mr. Paracha, thank you for mentioning me in your article.
To others, I am the “young socialist lad” NFP sahib is talking about. I was told about this piece by my fellow room mates and I write here to clarify something, when I should be studying. :P
First of all, NFP, I never said I was a Socialist, but a socialist sympathizer. And I got what you meant when you said how can a progressive person like me be listening to a reactionary like Imran Khan. Why? Because so many of us look at people like you with a history of struggle against dictatorships, mullahs and multinationals, but what happens if you too back out from a struggle just because of what you call “the tyranny of middle class morality.” Who else should we turn to if not men like Imran? Fazlu, Qazi, BB (even though it is well known you have a soft spot for her)? I might not agree with Imran on a lot of things, but he is the only one addressing the educated youth, while you don’t even bother to turn up whenever asked to speak at seminars in lahore, as someone rightly mentioned here. Now, those who have been calling Mr. Paracha a Marxist, think again. His history as a Marxist student leader against Zia and a lefty journalist is well known by those who follow him, but they should have heard him last year when he was a speaker at a youth conference in Karachi. His speech was a clear give away at what he has now become.
First of all, more than Marx, he quoted Nietzsche. Then he read a few paragraphs from what he says are his favourite books. One was “A guide to Military Coups” and the other, “The Mass Psychology of Fascism.” He also clearly said that he was only an “academic Marxist” with sympathies for people like Hugo Chivaz and Castro, and that he is nothing but “an old fashioned Socialist.” But what shocked me was when he went on to say, “I don’t care if a Socialist order is achieved through a democracy or a dictatorship.” So he doesn’t mind a dictatorship then.
All said, I still have deep respect and admiration for Paracha Saheb, and will not oppose him just because he did not take our invitation to support our struggle, because no matter what he thinks about our thinking, he is still read by a number of people and does manage to highlight the social issues haunting our country.
Just needed to clear a few things. Now back to my books. Thank you.

Bubba #40 {"MQM having brains? If you are the proof of a mohajir brain, then only Allah can save Pakistan"}

Bubba,
If my good friend, ZK, had not alerted me, I would have lost the opportunity to rectify your rectum-constricted brains about Mr. Ahmed Madani's ethnic credentials. Unlike most Paindoo Khotays who bray uncontrollably, like Hypo Chacha Al Butteesi, at the mere appearance of an Urdu speaking Mohajir, Mr. Ahmed Madani is a shining example of Punjabi literacy, courage, and enlightened outlook. Too bad his kind is an endangered type in our Punjab.

Re: # 80

tahmed,

.... i don't think i said anything about today's rally .... i did say that the long march to nirala sweet house will take place (maybe)......

........ but seriously, do you have any doubts that mushy and bb are in bed ? here is what bbc says:

'Mock conflict'


But is the falling-out quite what it seems?

More cynical observers think Friday's dramas in Islamabad and elsewhere are an exercise in mutual face-saving, a clandestine understanding that is meant to benefit both.

Gen Musharraf imposed emergency rule after months of unrest

According to these observers, the masses in Pakistan are not yet ready to come out in full support of political leaders against a government bent on preventing street protests.

This, they say, was known to Ms Bhutto when she called Friday's public meeting in Rawalpindi, near Islamabad.

Her subsequent detention has helped preserve the "mythical name" of the Bhuttos in Pakistan.

And, the cynics say, has also negated the impression that she, a self-declared champion of democracy, is in cahoots with Gen Musharraf, a military dictator who came to power by deposing an elected government.

As for Gen Musharraf, a mock conflict with Ms Bhutto's Pakistan People's Party (PPP) affords him time to get the revamped Supreme Court to endorse the legality of his re-election as president.

#66 Neem Boo {"also, if karachi is lukewarm, what might be the reasons? "}

For someone claiming to be a professor, you have got to be the most stupid person on Chowk. If you have to ask this question, you must be a seasonal Paki.

Re: # 79 Posted by hamidm2 on November 9, 2007 9:48:38 am

[..... first it was zardari and now she is stuck with these three clowns: mushy, fazloo and altaph bhai ......... maybe she can persuade mario khan .........]

fazloo might be the best politician amongst the four. But the two brain dead mohajirs. Why are mohajir brains so expensive in Pakistan? Because most of them have none.

Re: # 77 Posted by cliftonbridge on November 9, 2007 9:43:40 am

[They are actually supporting the army instead of being slaughtered by it.] Mohajirs are supporting the army, because like beggars they want hand outs. It is unfortunate that BB would even consider bringing them along in her next government. Strange political bedfellows indeed.

bubba,

I am a mojo too, please don't say bad things about us. It hurts our feelings :(

Re: # 83
Hmmmm
That was a brilliant take..
I think Mr NFP has a lot to answer...
Shargee,add some issues I have mentioned in my post no 6 to one you have just raised.....

#86- Sharjee, when you will come out of that god forsaken subjugated oppressed land, little nobody’s like Paracha Sahib will appear really insignificant. Just as they appear from the corner office of Wall and Williams. This guy is trying too hard for his own good. Please move on. 60s Che Guevara’s is a dead ideology. Pakistan can do without it.

Sorry, the #91 meant to site #83 and not #86 of that Bihari haramzada moron Salim Chuha... sorry Salim bhaijan for an unintentional oversight. I beg your pardon. Gracias.

Dear Mr. Paracha,
I so totally agree with you.
Where are all these lawyers and the Judiciary when things that really matter to the democratic spirit of Pakistan matter. Our women......and the Repealing of the Hudood ordinance. Where is the Shor and Ha ha Kaar?
What democracy?
Benazir Bhutto was a farce during her first and second rule!
What did her democracy accomplish for Pakistan?
I dont know of any other woman far removed from the reality of the common people she so represents....I remember when she first came to Pakistan to contest Elections after the demise of Zia ul Haq, she couldnt even speak the language of the people properly........Her accent of Urdu and grammar were both atrocious......

She promised us great 5 year education programs and stabilized inflation.........
Yeah Right.....The poor still dont get the education they deserve...Which member of a provincial or national assembly sends their children to public schools....
And Inflation...yeah...It sky rocketed during her tenure of greatness and the golden age of democracy she ushered in after Zia Ul Haq....
The Champion of the people......Mr. Nawaz Sharif wasnt even worse.
Nawaz Sharif almost got us declared a terrorist state during Clinton Era. His family filled its coffers, polluted Punjab with Ittifaq foundaries waste, paid no taxes and robbed the uncivil folk blind.....


Yes, this is the democracy the judiciary wants......

Democracy in a place where Might makes Right.....

and I am not talking about the strong arm of the army....

I am referring to the industrialists and Jagirdaars who rest their behinds in the halls of our provincial and federal governments.

I just dont know that who will raise their voice for Pakistan's Silent Majority.....
Its WOMEN........
Its mothers, daughters, sisters, wives, mistresses, whores, saints.

Perhaps that day, I will think all these lawyers are fighting for something worth fighting.......

otherwise we will again have a "DEMOCRACY" where a despot idiot will almost declare himself a Caliph.and Pakistan a terrorist state

or a woman with nothing in common with the Pakistani people will rule riding the waves of her controversial father....

Why Kulharee can get away with posts like his #92 and even my most benign posts are censored and I am banned is because he is possibly on the miserable Chowk staff's board. The users here need to counter the efforts of this staff of misery's effort to convert this site into a propaganda network like PTV.

Re: # 88

bubba payaan,

What do we have here? Cant say anything intelligent therefore resort to grunting and moaning?

No Democracy with a destroyed judiciary,..golden words of Ms Nasim Zahra...

The News international...

Saturday, November 10, 2007
Nasim Zehra

Islamabad: The Musharraf government's reported attempt to forcibly flown off the legitimate Chief Justice of Pakistan Iftikhar Chaudary , along with his family to Quetta did not succeed because of resistance by the Chief Justice and his family. Most of the deposed judges are under house arrest. The government hopes, and very erroneously, to gag these honorable men in the hope that the public too will forget these men and what they have stood for. The battle to roll back the serving army Chief's orders to trash the Constitution of Pakistan will indeed be centered around the national demand to restore these honorable judges. No matter how many thousands the government imprisons, the demand to r5estore the judges will spread.



There can be no genuine democracy with a destroyed judiciary. Therefore the twining of two demands is essential: the revival of the Constitution, the restoration nation-wide of the pre-PCO independent judiciary and the holding of fair and free elections under a credible care-taker set up. This crucial twining cannot be overlooked by any of the forces that have joined the debate on Pakistan's current crisis; whether the lawyers, the politicians, the media and Pakistan's friends abroad. Yet those who seem to understate or miss this point include some of Pakistan's political parties, the present government, general Parvez Musharraf and no less the United States government.



If we do not sufficiently focus on this issues, the fear is that in a couple of weeks after the weak PCO -accepting judiciary will rule general Musharraf's presidential election Constitutionally valid he will be willing to give up his army chief position and announce the holding of elections. This would satisfy Washington as it has not concerned itself with the question of the judiciary's restoration. It may have been convinced by genearl Musharraf that the judiciary has 'hindered' Pakistan's participation in the war on terrorism. Washington and London may then conclude that it is time to rejoice the return of democracy sans an independent judiciary.



Meanwhile the overwhelming majority within the PML-Q barring Mushahid Hussain, S.M Zafar and Wattoo do not care how independent or pliant is the judiciary. Finally as far as the Opposition is concerned it remains unclear how far the Opposition parties will then, after the election announcement mobilize the public to demand restoration of the judiciary. Other than sporadic statements on the need to restore the judiciary there has been no passionate and united demand by mainstream political parties, except Imran Khan demanding the restoration of the pre-PCO judiciary.



But in fact after having mutilated the independent judiciary, from which at least 55-60 judges refused to take oath and are thrown out, we will have been presented with only more of a khaki-engineered and Washington-underwritten democracy. A docile and pliable judiciary will be 'legal guarantor' of just a mutilated democracy.



Unless the destruction of the judiciary is reversed, for the next 20 years no judge will ever speak up for Constitutional rule in Pakistan. The ones who paid a price of standing up and performing their Constitutional duty must be owned and honored by the people of Pakistan. Pakistan's present and future will then hang in a limbo while the country will be ruled according to the wisdom of individuals functioning outside the discipline of the Constitution.



Meanwhile general Musharraf will have effectively destroyed the only real attempt at institutional balancing...attempt to hold State power accountable. Once Musharraf doffs his uniform the Bush government will happily accept him as a democrat..



We must continue to focus even more sharply on how the independent judiciary was ransacked and demand the restoration of the judiciary. We need to get all the political parties to clearly state their stance on general Musharraf's dismantling of the judiciary.



Our heroes, if at all we are to have any, have to be the deposed judges, the ones under house arrest, the ones who refused to take oath under the PCO, the ones who were trying desperately even if at times somewhat flamboyantly, but never unconstitutionally, to enforce rule of law in the country.
We need to popularize the phrase no democracy with a destroyed judiciary… pre-November 3 judiciary must be restored.

Re: # 87

bhubba Paiyaan,

"But the two brain dead mohajirs. Why are mohajir brains so expensive in Pakistan? Because most of them have none."

Deliberate provocation or just plain stupid? Iam betting on tha latter. By the way, moron, this joke is for pathans and it was the mojos who wrote that joke for dummies like u.

Re: # 96
That is a strong point- I wish that more people could understand it rather coming up with NS, BB and Mushi stuff.
Or Mr NFP's twisted "middle class morality " stance......
Certain things in life whether perceived to be considered important or relevant by a vast majority are important nevertheless...
I will again give example of Hudood Ordinance..
It was a draculian law which could actually impact any woman but at the same time a vast majority of lower class women were not even aware of it and therefore it was not considered relevant....
Does that mean it was in reality not relevant....
It was....
And should have been opposed
And was opposed by some of the same people whom Mr NFP are tauntingingly calling as "civil society".....

Courts of pakistan,

Every institution in pakistan is corrupt including teh supreme court. The previous justices were biased against mushy and now he has put a few that supports him. What is wrong with that.