An Open Letter to Hizb-ut-Tahrir

Re: # 22

Shree HamidM Sarkar,

Don't be in awe by grandpa Gopinath's intellect. Matter of fact Dadaji saw first opportunity to prove his manly prowess
on 4 different mid eastern vaginas. And he immediately jumped on the Ummah band wagon. Neverthless he did not foresee his action would produce so many piglets around the region. Anyway he did not believe the reincarnation theory
therefore he did not give a f.

I think Americans can do squat at this moment of time if dictator plainly refuses to entertain any request or order from them. Currently their (US') proverbial testicles are tied to the proverbial trees of Iraq and Afgnaistan. Cut and run is not an option any more, if you get my gist.

On the other hand, all these haramis want is a goverment in Pakistan which has a hint of legitimacy so that they are relatively comfortable in dealing with the dissent with in their own population. Thank God to Iftekhar Chowdhri Sahib who said, as the punjabi proverb goes, "khaidaN gay na khaidan diyaN gay, khutti vich mootraaN gay". I think all these haramis are just stuck with this dictator and he knows it very well.

haimdm/tahmad #: "...these people need the money to keep the army going so that they can continue to get plots in defence and grow the fauji foundation industrial empire ........."

...this is true......however, there is an easier way...the usa simply needs to ban all green cards and student visas to kids of senior army folks......in fact, they should have done that thirty years ago......

wait!....my apologies.....i withdraw the last part about thirty years ago.....had the usa banned visas to kids of senior army officers, thirty years ago, both of you would still be in rawalpindi and abbotabad......

#120....what makes you so different from the jahil Afghani Takfiri who says the same things about others whom he deems less Muslim than himself? face it tahmed...you are just as much of a fringe extremist in your camp as any of those mullahs you despise.

#125..."as the horrible hindoos are so fond of pointing out, most pakis are dogs in search of a leash ....."

Hamidm...unless I'm mistaken you too are a Pakistani and your American citizenship, doesn't change the fact that you too would be one of those dogs seeking a leash. Considering that you tend to jump all over the place as far as your views are concered, I'm inclined to think that putting you a leash isn't such a bad idea.

Re: # 123

tahmed mian,

.... the only people who can swing things this way or that are negroponte and kiani ...... if negroponte threatens to cut off the halwa for the paki army, mushy will be gone - kiani and his band of merry men will make sure they 'talk' to him ....... these people need the money to keep the army going so that they can continue to get plots in defence and grow the fauji foundation industrial empire .........

.... if negroponte is wishy-washy, musharraf will be able to hang on because, like i said before, the people don't relly care ......... and even if they cared, they don't matter - there is not much abdul paki can do when he is worried about his next meal ........

....... as for the politicians, the unemployable lawyers, the droopy eyed chief justice and the aunties with bleached hair, they are a bunch of jokers who will go home the minute the police starts behaving like real pakistani police .......

.... of course, i really hope that i am wrong ..... but based on the tamasha at pu yesterday, it doesn't seem that things have changed nuch ...... as the horrible hindoos are so fond of pointing out, most pakis are dogs in search of a leash .....

eeny meeny miney mo
pimp zardari and his ho
screaming "go mush go"
...its the age old "aristocrats" show !

Hamidm (repeat this after me):


Eeny, meeny, miny, mardi
Catch a dictator by his wardi
If he hollers make him say,
"I surrender, give me a visa to the USA!"

Re: # 121

tahmed,

"Musharraf has started losing his men now " ...... uh? ... wasn't that his plan all along? ....... don't tell me the 'people' forced him to appoint soomro as PM ? ........ the people are busy watching their asses whopped by india in cricket and really don't give a shit about who comes in and who goes out of the pm house ........ heck, most people don't even know where the pm house is?... do you?

hamidm: #115 Musharraf has started losing his men now - Shuakat Aziz out, Soomro in as "caretaker" Prime Minister. Chaudhury out, some rubber stamp judge in as new "caretaker" Panjab Chief Minister.

Perhaps you are determined to be the last person on earth to read the writing on the wall - Pakistanis can unite, and Pakistanis can get rid of dictators. Sic Semper Tyrannis!!

urstruly: Maulana Maududi is no doubt roasting in hell at this time.

maffrejal: I dont know how to answer your question. Because I dont think being stupid vs being religious are mutually exclusive.

Jamaat-e-Harami is a disgrace to the good name of Moulana Moududi and an insult to the the movement of revival that he started. Moulana gave us a vision of an Islamic Republic where Allah and His Prophet's (pbuh)law would be supreme. Instead of following his vision, those in the whorehouse in mansura have started making compromises and suppoprting the declared enemies of God and citizens of Pakistan.

#115 - "imran khan is a simple fool who should stick to cricket, philanthrophy and bedding white women ......."

I personally have grown fond of Imran and will likely be voting for him this time around. One thing you gotta say about him is that he'd definitely be doing better than our current PM who couldn't even get Condi to give him some.

Re: # 56

I have to consider your thought. Is it better to be stupid than to be religious?

Re: # 114

borivili,

..... i am sorry about imran, but he was asking for it .... lately he has been talking like a mullah without a beard and with pubic hair .......it is a good thing that he was roughed by the jamiat-i-harami - maybe now he will keep his distance from the whorehouse in mansoora ......

....... in any case, i think he made a big mistake by getting into politics ....... unlike sheik rashid, the thieves of gujarat, the badmashes of gowalmandi and the goons of ghq, imran khan is a simple fool who should stick to cricket, philanthrophy and bedding white women .......

Hamid Bhaand another occasion for u to rejoice and backslap, Imran has been humiliated and disgraced, tell us about another of Sheikh Rashid's conquests, in the spare time he gets between sucking Musharraf's balls and making Pindi more comfortable for u and ur relatives

... i am sorry, but you have to read this! ...... it kind of makes you feel okay about being a pathetic paki or a horrible hindoo :

A man caught trying to have sex with his bicycle has been sentenced to three years on probation.
Robert Stewart, 51, admitted a sexually aggravated breach of the peace by conducting himself in a disorderly manner and simulating sex.

Sheriff Colin Miller also placed Stewart on the Sex Offenders Register for three years.

Mr Stewart was caught in the act with his bicycle by cleaners in his bedroom at the Aberley House Hostel in Ayr.

Gail Davidson, prosecuting, told Ayr Sheriff Court: "They knocked on the door several times and there was no reply.

"They used a master key to unlock the door and they then observed the accused wearing only a white t-shirt, naked from the waist down.

"The accused was holding the bike and moving his hips back and forth as if to simulate sex."

Re: # 66

urstruly,

.... well, well, well! ......... life is full of surprises ..... i always thought you were a diehard mardoodite and a card carrying member of his fascist jamiat-i-tulaba ....... and here you are calling them by their correct name of jamiat-i-harami!

......... what is next? .. arjun is a member of hib-ut-tahrir? ..... masadi is actually sane? .... romair is a real person? ...... this gives me and that bitch who married a horrible hindoo some hope for the future .......

zyxius

True - you muslims have done enormously well - you got a "homeland" all for yourselves [where you have the freedom to kill each other at will]... Hinuds, on the other hand, have "just" india and nothing else... oh, those poor hinuds... :)

And yes, muslims are doing well in india - from bollywood to nukes - thank you very much... tell that your fellow pakis - they always whining about indian muslims being not treated well and what not... :)

Re: # 104

This is a myth created by fouji haram khors and East India Compny ki naajaiz aulaad. There was no US aid from 1972 - 1979 and 89-2001; Pakistan did not collpase economically and not only that the foreign debt also remained stable. Some mega projects were completed during that time - like Steel Mill, Nuclear infrastructure, several dams, Motorway, and several industrial estates all across the country. As a matter of fact pakistan has always done better whenever it was left alone by US.

#103 Posted by Zyxius on November 14, 2007 1:04:47 pm


Blah blah blah


reality:

India: IT
Pakistan: IT(Islamic Terrorism)

India: IITs
Pakistan: IIT(institutes of islamic terrorism)..

#100 Posted by AlephNull on November 14, 2007 11:38:28 am

yes...romair's thinking, as reflected in his posts, was typical of pakis..mushy was the saviour..the paki JC..america's blue eyed boy who would deliver kashmir for the faithful..

remember these?

Black Tuesday: The View From Islamabad
Posted by Romair Sep 23, 2001 11:48 pm
Zahra #412: I had suggested before the interview that Benazir is now cornered. The whole world is now aware of her corruption. Her two trump cards of denouncing the military govt. and presenting herself as a, ``westernized`` alernative are down the drain, now also. She cannot criticize Musharraf as the US (and most Pakistanis) have now seems to have figured out that he is the right man to back.

Black Tuesday: The View From Islamabad
Posted by Romair Sep 23, 2001 02:29 pm
Asif Naqshbandi #401: As someone who has followed the Kashmir issue more closely and personally than probably anyone on this site, I think I can safely state that Pakistan`s position is now stronger than it has ever been historically on the Kashmir issue. The chances of a Kashmir solution now are greater than they have ever been. India has never been in such a defensive position on this issue, as it is right now.

The US stance has always been to support the right of self-determination in Kashmir. The US is not going to do anything against Pakistan now. Nothing. Zero. This is a new phase of a long-term alliance, with Musharraf at the head. He is becoming a hero in the US media circles. His definition of differentiating between fighting terrorism and supporting freedom fights is now going to become the international standard, as he is one of the only people in the world whose govt. has actively participated in both. A friend of a friend in the Pakistani Foreign Service told me that Bush called Musharraf and emotionally told him if he opposed the US, Pakistan would turn into Afghanistan, and if he supported the US, the US would ensure that Pakistan becomes a very prosperous country. Mush

#105...I hate cricket so I wouldn't know...I'm never there to watch.

Arjun is like the buck toothed, unemployed redneck from some Hickville USA town boasting about the power and wealth of his country.

Zyxis, does the Indian side of your family cheer when Pakistan wins the cricket match?

Re: # 102

noble sentiments - but you really do not have any option... Without US pumping money, pakiland economy will collapse within days... pakiland are no iran...

Anycase - it's all moot... as long as you have jihadis running around - US will be involved heavily pakiland, one way or the other...

#98...yes Arjun I am sure you have a great deal to do with India's economic miracle and spectacular rise, what with you spending the majority of your life on Chowk.com refreshing your browser in anticipation of delivering more of your 'Incredible India' speech to yet another poster who probably talking about something else entirely.

How about you take a clearer look at the picture; I am sure you are aware, since you have such a hand in India's rise, that Muslims have an enormous impact on everything from Bollywood to India's nuclear capabilities. To put it in perspective for you, we have Pakistan all to ourselves and we also have India to share with piss drinkers like you. Amongst the Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs and everyone else, only the Muslims have been able to make a separate homeland for themselves in addition to also maintaining a large population and hold in India. You Hindus still live in the same India with everyone else as it always was for you and we Muslims are a part of that as well. I for one have plenty of family in both in India and in Pakistan. In addition to Pakistani families having influence in Pakistan, it is not uncommon for Pakistani families to have great influence in India...and you can visit some of the weddings and see who guests are as an example of the standing in Indian society of these Pakistani families. We also do enormous business in India.

While you spend your life in some dark little room waiting to post your next little bitchy post on this site, the world is changing out there and us Muslims/Pakistanis are even there in your India doing what you probably are not. Why not get a life and do something more for your own life that you can boast about rather than an economic growth story that you have nothing to do with.

Currently any politician, any "movement", or any person who gets endorsed by US is going to be a disastrous failure in Pakistan. Therefore, in order to save the integrity of the movement of lawyers, judiciary, and press against this dicataror they must refrain to accept any endorsement from US whether it is from government or a group like american lawyers. American lawyers must be told point blank to mind their own business.

Mohar,

yes, it is a tough situations for them.
I wish lawyers had collectively made at least a
statment, we are sorry, we did not do this in 1999,
but what the heck, we learnt and now we are going
to go ahead with the sturggle, people, follow us.

mohar11 #94

{{Because - at that time pakis en masse were still dreaming on kashmir, war on hinuds and what not... they thought Mushy boy, the tough commando, will wrestle kashmir from horrible hinuds...}}

Then there were those Pakistani expatriates who after attending Mushy’s speech to his countrymen in DC in early 2002 wrote gushing accounts on Chowk about his wit, his good humour, his liberal moderate orientation, his various economic plans, the repeated applause and standing ovation he received from the audience. They thanked God that Pakistan’s Great Helmsman was a competent, well-meaning man – and so to bed.

How completely these worthies forget their prior adulation of El Dictator …

shish

in good old days - Mushy would have just unleashed a tirade against india, turned up jihad a bit more - pakis would be swooning again to the rhetoric, everything would have been forgotten...

Unfortunately that doesnot work any more - there is no other boogeyman to fall back upon... This is like no other time in pakistan... there is no precedent and pakis have no clue how to proceed... And they have turned on each other...

#94 Posted by mohar11 on November 14, 2007 11:08:43 am

yeah..it's funny how pakis, who've lived under the boot of the military for most of their 60 years, are now yearning for democracy.

the fact of the matter is that they're against their military dictator because he's being forced to do something that has really hurt their honor and dignity..that fig leaf they use to cover their own inability to keep up with india.

If, instead of bombing the pakis of jihadi persuasion, the dictator was sending his jihadis to kill india, the paki people would be fully behind him.

It's hard for pakis to see India rising up while their country is the byline in every terrorism story...

mullah32 - I thought you don't read my posts... :)

#87 Posted by tahmed32 on November 14, 2007 10:53:53 am

Let's be clear. The US doesn't want democracy in Pureland the way you imagine it. It wants a democratic facade...a managed affair with their annointed benazir taking reins...which is why it's pushing benazir down the throats of pakis...do you seriously believe that mushy let benazir into pureland of his own accord and bomb-you-to-the-stone-age ka chota bhai had nothing do do with it?

Do you seriously think that if Bush really wanted free and fair elections in pureland, he doesn't have the leverage? One word about cutting aid or trade would bring mushy to his knees.

So tell me..what has Bush said about removing martial law, restoring the judiciary and holding real fair elections? squat..

Re: # 88

not joining anybody. I do not have any problem
with anybody struggling for the right cause, but I
think consistency will help a cause much more.
This was the third time, it is not like this is
the first time someone took law into his/her own
hands and there was no precdent.
By 1999, everybody knew how these takeovers/things
proceed.

Re: # 86 shish
[I think rule of law was broken in 1999. ...Wonder why it took lawyers and all those to wake up..]

Because - at that time pakis en masse were still dreaming on kashmir, war on hinuds and what not... they thought Mushy boy, the tough commando, will wrestle kashmir from horrible hinuds...

In fact, after the coup, for a while indian govt refused to negotiate with mushy, on pretext of him being unlawful ruler... and pakis of all were stripes howled in protest... :)

These are pakis - delusion and stupidity is their forte...

#91 i see my loyal campfollower has finally come back after many months of trying to be on his own. Consider this post to be the bone that i feed you once every twenty posts - go for it boy!!

cliftonbridge: that's right - it is those who are trying to get rid of this dictator who are the bad ones. the fact is that benazir has put her life on the line, and made herself a uniting force in Pakistan.

Why dont you pull some of the things written about the dictator musharraf instead? Please re-think. Dont join the ranks of those who will forever be remebered the way all traitors and betrayers are remembered - mqm and jamaat i islami.

Last post. Have a nice day.

What's mullah32 is harping about - this "pakis struggling" business?... as far as we can see - there is no masses on the street - BB is barricaded, imran khan is kiddnapped by islamists right in front of thousands of his fans and nobody gave a hoot... :)

GT,

"Dear Hamid,

I am really offended now. And you started it. Muslims all over chowk are now laughing at our gau-mutra consumption and propensity to get married to animals. I can tolerate everything, but if you start making fun of gau-mutra then I have all the right to abuse your family. If you think you are so smart, I dare you to come to India and publicly defame gaus and their mutra. Enough said! I hope chowk is taking notice."

I'm offended to. My sensibilities are hurt by those hatefilled comments. May he be born as fron in his next janam.

LA times , Fatima Bhutto:


"Perhaps the most bizarre part of this circus has been the hijacking of the democratic cause by my aunt, the twice-disgraced former prime minister, Benazir Bhutto. While she was hashing out a deal to share power with Gen. Pervez Musharraf last month, she repeatedly insisted that without her, democracy in Pakistan would be a lost cause. Now that the situation has changed, she's saying that she wants Musharraf to step down and that she'd like to make a deal with his opponents -- but still, she says, she's the savior of democracy.

The reality, however, is that there is no one better placed to benefit from emergency rule than she is. Along with the leaders of prominent Islamic parties, she has been spared the violent retributions of emergency law. Yes, she now appears to be facing seven days of house arrest, but what does that really mean? While she was supposedly under house arrest at her Islamabad residence last week, 50 or so of her party members were comfortably allowed to join her. She addressed the media twice from her garden, protected by police given to her by the state, and was not reprimanded for holding a news conference. (By contrast, the very suggestion that they might hold a news conference has placed hundreds of other political activists under real arrest, in real jails.)

Ms. Bhutto's political posturing is sheer pantomime. Her negotiations with the military and her unseemly willingness until just a few days ago to take part in Musharraf's regime have signaled once and for all to the growing legions of fundamentalists across South Asia that democracy is just a guise for dictatorship"

shishapa: join urstruly who also thinks in terms of things being the wrong time, the wrong place instead of facing the reality of what is there now.

arjun8: So, you think Pakistanis are struggling to replace Musharraf with Kiyani? Or is it that the US doesnt really want a democracy and that is why Bush and other US officials have been calling over and over again for free and fair elections.

This talk would be music to the ears of urstruly - but if you are serious about it (or even if you are merely trying to be clever), you need psychiatric care.

I think rule of law was broken in 1999.
Wonder why it took lawyers and all those to wake up
and start struggling for rule of law so late!
There was at one more chance after referendum!

cliftonbridge: "I mean by that logic you are an OBL supporter. "

Perhaps you need to strengthen your powers of logic..

No amount of "logic" can deny the fact that you are opposing those who are struggling bravely for freedom and the rule of law against the armed might available to a dictator who has proved himself to be a liar and and an incompetent despite all his big talk of being Abraham Lincoln and Napoleon Bonaparte rolled into one.

benazir or mushy or kiyani...it's just a different leash on the same raggedy old canine.

Re: # 78 Posted by tahmed32 on November 14, 2007 10:17:22 am

[relatively speaking, that would put indians as being beyond emotionally crazy and lower than even destitute. but dont stop mere facts stop you from crowing.]

Actually, the fact is that today's world has accepted that muslims as a group are highly charged, and irrational. How does talking about indians (by that you surely mean hindus!) refute this fact? How can two wrongs make a right?

Tahmed chachoo this struggle will only reinstate feudalism and kleptocracy, like all pakis you have a very short term memory, please forgive me for being able to remember the day before yesterday.

Yes the army mush and mqm are all filthy that doesnt mean everyone who opposes them is automatically a saviour. I mean by that logic you are an OBL supporter.

#77 Posted by tahmed32 on November 14, 2007 10:15:12 am


re-inforce your preconceived notions?


Everything I've listed is a FACT...but don't let the facts get in the way of your delusionary worldview.

cliftonbridge: the only inconvenient truth is that you have joined the ranks of mqm and jamaateislaami in betraying Pakistanis as they struggle for freedom.

And the inconvenient truth is that Pakistanis will win, and musharraf and those who ignore his disgusting behavior will lose.

Obviously american lawyers (like paki lawyers) cant do the things that really matter. However its nice how people in other countries have responded to the images of valiant paki lawyers standing up to a made up Goliath.

Unfortunately those same people think BB is "bravely fighting" for the restoration of utopia in pakistan ...and have little recollection of the supreme courts autonomy before Mush.... heck maybe they also think zardari is nelson mandela like his wife tweedledum said. The world is full of such inconveniant little truths.

bubba: "Having a billion emotionally crazy people who are destitute"

relatively speaking, that would put indians as being beyond emotionally crazy and lower than even destitute. but dont stop mere facts stop you from crowing.

urstruly: Have you noticed how hard poor arjun is trying to re-inforce your preconceived notions? Every wonder why?

The reason is obvious: Your preconceived notions that call for seeing people who mean you no harm as being against you are music to the ears of the pandit hate.

Re: # 52 Posted by maffrejal on November 14, 2007 4:05:27 am

[Why not muslims stop dealing with non-muslims?]

Hate begets hate.


[There would emerge a muslim economy where it would be by the muslims, for the muslims and of the muslims.]

All of arab world's combined GDP is less than Greece's. Do you know that muslim world's economy means nothing compared to the world economy? Having a billion emotionally crazy people who are destitute, and ruled by corrupt ruling elite has brought this day to the muslim world. So, as the west would surely say, just go ahead and become an isolated and insulated society.

umm..the American govt already treats pakis as potential terrorists.

1. pakis were the first people required to register and get finger printed after 9/11.
2. visas for pakis are cleared in DC, not islamabad.
3. the american government tried to get the brits to send them additional data on brit of the paki persuasion flying to the US.
4. As atif will tell you, the TSA singles you out for special scrutiny.

Re: # 73 That's the point - American (lawyers) are at the wrong place at a wrong time and that they have to do much more than this to prove that they have a potential to be at the right place at the right time.

#72 urstruly: first it was the wrong place they were marching to, and now it is wrong timing. the amount of thrasghing around you will do to hold on to your pre-conceived notions is awe-inspiring.

Re: # 71 Its the timing, which is the dead give away that this protest is authorized by pentagon. In Pakistan, Judiciary, citizens and press have been fighting this dictator for the past 1 year now; 100s of school children have been massacred by their "best ally"; thousands of Pakistani citizens have been illegally detained and rotting in American outsourced torture centers in Pakistan and elsewhere; and this harami's fouj is committing extra-judicial murders of Pakistani citizens at a scale that would make Saddam Hussain appear to be a choir boy. Where were these haramis then?

#70 urstruly: The purpose here is to lend moral support to the Pakistani lawyers in their struggle for the rule of law. And the march to the Supreme Court dressed in the trade-mark black suit of the Pakistani lawyers is consistent with that purpose.

You can always come up with alternatives and say that they should have marched to some other place - but that only helps you maintain your pre-conceived notions. and thus become more and more detached from reality.

Re: # 68

I am pretty sure, this march is staged by pentagon's propaganda machinery. If American lawyers were serious they should have been marching upon state department or capitol hill to protest their government's immoral involvement in other countries. What the fuck can supreme court do. We don't need these token gestures.

#62 Posted by mohar11 on November 14, 2007 8:12:11 am

always a battle among the faithful between their love for the moolah and their love for allah..

urstruly: why are you so negative about everything to the extent of even cursing those who are taking time off to give moral support to the brave lawyers of Pakistan? Would you prefer that Americans also start painting all Pakistanis as terrorists instead, like pandit-hates do? if that was to happen, you would no longer enjoy the benefit of living in comfort in the US while cursing it at the same time!!

As for jamaat i islaami - it is obvious that you do not understand that maulvis and dictators are the same thing.

#64 Posted by Urstruly on November 14, 2007 8:40:23 am



are the cause of our misery in the first place.


hey...your tax $$ probably paid for the cobra gunships that are sending your jihadi brothers(and sisters) to jannat..

and your tax $$ probably paid for the white phosphorus that baked the ninja chix..


We will manage on our own


We as in the people of flint, Michigan?

I really detest Jamat-e-Harami's goons harassing Imran Khan in Punjab University. These bearded whores have shown their true colors once again supporting their harami dictator godfather.

I really detest Jamat-e-Harami's goons harassing Imran Khan in Punjab University. These bearded whores have shown their true colors once again supporting their harami dictator godfather.

American Lawyers Will March to Supreme Court to Show Solidarity with Pakistani Lawyers

I find it disgusting and it makes my stomach turn. Well these assholes are the cause of our misery in the first place. They can take their protest and shove it. We will manage on our own. Fuck you very much.

(Note "black suit" dress indicated below to show solidarity with Pakistani lawyers who take to the streets in black suits too.)

American Lawyers Will March to Supreme Court to Show Solidarity with Pakistani Lawyers

Images this week of police beating and jailing almost 3,000 Pakistani lawyers were almost as shocking as Gen. Pervez Musharraf suspending Pakistan's constitution and putting its Supreme Court under house arrest.

The American Bar Association immediately spoke out against these clear breaches of the rule of law. But, American lawyers must do more to object to conditions in Pakistan.

On Wednesday, November 14, the ABA is organizing a lawyers’ march in Washington, D.C., to support the rule of law and lawyers in Pakistan. At 11:30 a.m., lawyers will gather in the plaza in front of the James Madison Building of the Library of Congress before walking around the Supreme Court. Lawyers across the country are participating in similar marches in their communities, and the ABA is encouraging and supporting these local efforts.

Over the last few days, brave Pakistani lawyers have dressed for work and headed to court knowing that they would be met by policemen’s batons and tear gas instead of their clients. These lawyers went to work anyway because of their belief in the rule of law.

It is time for us to demonstrate that we share Pakistani lawyers' commitment to justice. Please wear your black suit and join lawyers in Washington, D.C., or in your community as we walk to court on November 14. Together, we will show that Pakistan's lawyers are not fighting alone.

What: Lawyers' march to support the rule of law in Pakistan
When: 11:30 a.m., Wednesday, November 14
Where: Meet at the James Madison Building (101 Independence Avenue SE) before walking around the Supreme Court
Attire: Black suit

Thank you in advance for your support.

Sincerely,

William H. Neukom
President, American Bar Association



http://www.abanet.org/op/marchdetails.shtml

I don't get it - ain't islamists of Jammat-e-Duma33es against Mushy because he is whacking their brother talibans across tribal lands?.... And Imran Khan is the one who supports their islamist cause?.... so why did islmaists kidnap this dude?...

What's going on here?

All excitement of marriage with female dog and koran notwithstanding - what the heck is going on with this Imran Khan dude?... It seems he was "hiding" from Mushy - but then he came out to give speech in some paki university where everybody was cheering for him... then suddenly he was kiddnapped by islamists and sent to jail?....

:)

Imran Khan joins the battle to free Pakistan..until captured by Jamaat i Islami chamchas of Musharraf and put behind bars...

Dear Hamid,

I am really offended now. And you started it. Muslims all over chowk are now laughing at our gau-mutra consumption and propensity to get married to animals. I can tolerate everything, but if you start making fun of gau-mutra then I have all the right to abuse your family. If you think you are so smart, I dare you to come to India and publicly defame gaus and their mutra. Enough said! I hope chowk is taking notice.

p.s. Let me inform you that my mother religiously buys a quarter of g.m. in a brandy bottle and smuggles it into the US everytime she comes. I believe that Hillary is planning to legalize its import. Come that day, lets see who is left laughing.

hamidm: " as a matter of fact, when i am i pakistan, i always carry a tasbeeh, use a twig to brush my teeth, and never pee standing up ..... "

Does this mean that when you go to India, you will be visiting the Railroad Track Toilet?

hamidm #55 When you talk of "muslims", you refer to the stupid ones only.

Superstitious individuals are hardly the monopoly of the muslims. Ask arjun about the hindu who married the dog yesterday, e.g.

maffrejal: I hope for your sake that you are merely trying to be humorous. Because if you are serious, then you clearly are the most stupid person on chowk (whicy, btw, is not something easily attained).

Re: # 53

arjun mian,

.... i think there was some egyptian who won the nobel prize for chemistry ...... in any case, it is a moot point - we muslims don't need to do any basic research because the answers are all there in the koran ...... as soon as we figure out what the first three words, 'alif laam meem', we will be able to find the cure for cancer and the unified theory of everything ......

Re: # 46

zyxius mian,

..... no, i will not stand in the middle of the street in pakistan and voice my opinions about the prophet (pbuh and his camel) because i do not want to be beheaded ..... as a matter of fact, when i am i pakistan, i always carry a tasbeeh, use a twig to brush my teeth, and never pee standing up ..... i am not a fool ....

..... having said that, don't you see a problem with an ideology that calls for decapitation of people who dare to disagree?

..... anyway, i hope edhi gets the nobel prize before your wahabis kill him because they don't like the fact that he does not differentiate between muslims and dhimmis when picking up the sick and wounded ...... he certainly deserves it more than that big fat fool - al gore ..... and so does mohammad younus, even though he is indulging in the unislamic practice of charging interest ....... so who else is there? ... osama? ayman al zawahiri? baitullah mehsud? ... or our own resident genius, masadi?

..... zyxius mian, wake up and smell the kava - we muslims are in big trouble and we don't even know it ......

Orhan Pamuk won the nobel prize for literature, not a scientific field. That's no different from Yasser Arafat winning the Nobel peace prize.

So the only muslim to win the nobel prize in a scientific field is the late Dr Salam...who isn't really a muslim..as the gravestone on his grave will clearly tell you.

Why not muslims stop dealing with non-muslims? For a start all muslims should stop buying/selling/borrowing/lending/barter items/currencies etc from non-muslims and deal only with muslims. Later muslims can just ignore non-muslims by not looking at them / not speaking to them etc. This is the jihad that would help the muslim world. There would emerge a muslim economy where it would be by the muslims, for the muslims and of the muslims. If this cannot be implemented with immediate effect, then muslim ummah would become a dream forever.

पाकिस्तान बनेगा इस्लामिस्तान

Nobody can stop the Islamists -

All munafiqoons get ready to embrace the purity of sunnat- those who do not keep a beard would be flogged!!.

It does not do any good when captain of a cricket team playing in another country, which is non-muslim, thanks all the Muslims. This is definetly an insult and cannot be taken as a slip of a tongue.

पाकिस्तानी को चाहिए इसलाम .

इमरान खान को खलीफा बनाओ

Pakistanis fully deserve these Islamists and mullah rule !!!

What is Pakistan today is what is wanted it's children to be yesterday!!!

What you sowed is what you reap today!!!

#7 - Hamidm,

Your characteristic bias against Islam and Muslims and hatred for the same is obviously expressed in this little tit-bit of yours.

".... okay, name two other than abdus salam (a kafir), naguib mahfuz (who you tried to kill) and orhan pamuk (who you are going to try to kill) ....... peace prizes and people who died in andalusia a thousand years ago do not count ......."

Maybe you dont know this but even Maulana Abdul Sattar Edhi of Pakistan is in line for the Nobel Peace Prize. Another is Mohammad Yunus. And your rant about Orhan Pamuk is irrelevant because the fact that a small group of Turkish Nationalists being upset at him for his views on the Armenian genocide is no reason to argue that he is not Muslim. There are others also, but that wouldn't matter to you because you are probably either a Hindu with a muslim sounding nick with a major gripe against Muslims, or you are some poor Pakistani fool who thinks he is the next Ataturk and the way to his destiny is to lurk these forums and continue to deliver passionately deliver his manifesto.

Hamid...let me ask you...when does this plan of yours move out of the realm of the net and into the real world so we can see the strength of your arguments in a more meaningful way?

The test of your conviction, Hamidm, will be if you come to Pakistan and make these statements in a public forum and work towards that wonderful Secular Society that you so aspire to. Who knows, you could be the Kamal Ataturk of Pakistan...I am sure you would love that. Grab the next flight and make the speech Hamid...I say you should go to stand in the middle of Karachi...lets say at Metropole Hotel, and deliver your message to the people of Pakistan. Lets see how much your ideas have any basis in reality rather than your clouded mind....by the way..how was your beer with tahmed?

Hamidm and other "enlightened" people of this forum really do show their quality when they simply cannot express their point of view without hurling insults at Islam, Muslims and the Prophet (PBUH). It doesn't augur well for these fools because they do not realize that they are no different from the uneducated Takfiri from Afghanistan who also sees everyone else as being unclean, unenlightened and worthy of such abuse.

You people are a bunch of hypocrites who talk a bunch of crap and have no respect for anyone else. Specially you Hamidm, you simply seem to be frothing at the mouth and constantly refreshing your webpage to see if anyone on Chowk has posted anything which you can respond with another one of your characteristically arrogant posts which assume that all other points of view are ignorant and therefore even when you go on talking sleeze;

"..... and before someone objects to this discourse, let me say that this discussion is more relevant and definitely more intellectually stimulating than discussing the khilafat and the rantings of an illiterate prohet holed up in a cave ........."

Everyone should be ok with it because the dumb-ass from Detroit believes that he's got all the answers. I wonder if you are so bold in public, even in front of the black Muslims in your own home town. I would love to see you mouth of in front of people like this rather than be a hero from behind the comfortable anonymity of your computer.

"Thus all non-Muslim students in the mainstream educational system are taught Islamic religious studies. In fact, when the most recent national curriculum document clearly vows
To make the Qur’anic principles and Islamic practices as an integral part of curricula so that the message of the Holy Qur’an could be disseminated in the process of education as well as training. To educate and train the future generations of Pakistan as a true practicing Muslim who would be able to usher in the 21st century and the next millennium with courage, confidence, wisdom and tolerance70
and requires the following as objectives of teaching Urdu language71
To create love for religion and respect for personalities
must have belief in the Unity of God, and know that Allah is the creator of the universe.
Must regard Islamic ways as the best of all
Must have reverence for all the messengers of God, Prophet Mohammad (pbuh), His family members, His companions, the Imams and the leaders, and must try to know their teachings and adopt their ways
Must maintain affinity (love) with the Islamic world
Must respect the leaders, books, places of worship of other religions
Must be aware of the blessings of Jehad, and must create yearning for Jehad in his heart.

it shows itself to be grossly insensitive to the existence and need of non-Muslims among the students. "

"Similarly, textbooks on Social Studies, another compulsory subject that starts from Class 3, all have at least 4 chapters on personalities, which are invariably Islamic religious personalities. Note the detail below. Class III: Chapters on the prophets Adam, Abraham, Jesus and Mohammad (pbuh)67 Class IV: Chapters on Prophet Mohammad (pbuh), Hazrat Abu Bakr, Hazrat Umar, and ....."

Nothing wrong in emulating the rapists and paedophiles as a part of official national character building!!!

"Or, To educate and train the future generations of Pakistan as a true practicing Muslim44
Or, To develop a sense of pride in being Muslim and Pakistani45
Or, Knows that national culture is not the local culture or local customs, but that it means the culture the principles of which are laid down by Islam46
The textbooks then pick up from this point and express these requirements as follows. The class II Urdu book has a lesson on “Our Country”, the first sentences of which read:
Our country is Pakistan. We live in our country. Pakistan is an Islamic country. Here Muslims live. Muslims believe in the unity of Allah. They do good deeds. ..47
The Class 6 book says:
Who am I? I am a Muslim. I am a Pakistani. I love my country and I love my people. … You know that you are a Muslim and your religion is Islam.48
It conveys the message that being a Pakistani is equated with being a Muslim, and that only Muslims are true Pakistani citizens. Patriotism has been equated with Islamic zeal. The way it has been said clearly alienates religious minorities.
Compulsory Teaching of Islamiat to Non-Muslim Students
The educational material attempts to teach Islamiat to all the students irrespective of their faith through the compulsory subjects of Social/Pakistan Studies, Urdu and English. Although non-Muslims are not required to take the fourth compulsory subject of Islamiat, there is an extraordinary incentive for them in the form of 25% additional marks for learning and taking examinations in Islamiat.
The curricula of all these subjects require every Pakistani, irrespective of his (her) faith, to love, respect, be proud of and practice Islamic principles, traditions, customs, rituals, etc., Both the curricula and textbooks are enlightening in this respect. The National Early Childhood Education Curriculum (NECEC) would like to impart to the primary school children, and not just to Muslim children, the following ‘life skills’49: x_ Use greetings such as Assalam-o-Alaikum x_ Know when to say “Bismillah” x_ Recite the first Kalemah and understand its meaning x_ Name the five daily prayers x_ Learn about Ramadhan and Eidain
"

Nothing wrong with what is going on in Pakistan today- you are all suffering the fruits of the seeds of hatred you sowed many years back!!!

"Pakistanis as Muslims Alone
The process of equating the Muslim and Pakistani identities starts in very early school education. For example, the most recent National Early Childhood Education (ECE) curriculum41 released in March 2002 requires as an objective
To nurture in children a sense of Islamic identity and pride in being Pakistani.42
There is no mention that this is to be done among Muslim students alone. The suggested material under this objective is all Islamiat that is to be read by pupils of all religions.
For Class IV and V students, the Urdu curriculum requires that
A feeling be created among students that they are the members of a Muslim nation. Therefore, in accordance with the Islamic tradition, they have to be truthful, honest, patriotic and life-sacrificing mujahids (janbaz mujahid)4
"

Actually there is nothing wrong in Islamization because the process had started well with TNT.

Pakistan is for Islam- its current generation was taught to be a "good" hindu and jew hating muslim- there is nothing wrong in what is going on in currently- IT IS NATURAL and a result of Allah's will!!

Pakistan is certainly all for a Khilafat - I would support Imran Khan for the first sexy Khalifa of Pakistan. May be the mullahs would start fantasizing about angrez wives and concubines and would perhaps sublimate their frustration into their fantasies.

Re: # 9

Actually munafiqoons like you who take hindu/buddhist sounding nick are the ones who never learnt Islam.

Soon you are going the face the truth about Islam when the HUT guys are going to ensure that purity of Islam does not get contaminated by people like you!

I cannot agree more with Naqshbandi. Caliphate is God's gift.
There is no such thing as strive for caliphate.
Call the people for good and forbid evil.
There should be one party among you people which invite for good and forbid evil.
This caliphate bisiness looks like opportunism of highest degree in the name of Islam.

hamidm: Does this mean the union will produce a sonofabitch?

Re: # 29

mohar mian,

you ask, "Well, marrying a female dog or marrying the koran - what's the difference? "

.... for one, you can have sex with the female dog ....... but i don't think this marriage is going to last - imagine giving the poor dog a bun to eat at her wedding .... not a bone, or gristle, or chopped liver ... a bun! ..... i wouldn't be surprised if her mother-in-law sets the poor bitch on fire within a month ......

..... and before someone objects to this discourse, let me say that this discussion is more relevant and definitely more intellectually stimulating than discussing the khilafat and the rantings of an illiterate prohet holed up in a cave .........

“The Holy Prophet was supremely successful ‘though illiterate’ because he was given knowledge and wisdom by God and he used his commonsense too”.
The entire basis of the dogma of the ‘religious churches’ of Muslims is based on the above premise that Muhammad was illiterate and therefore- IGNORANCE- except for rote learning of Arabic, is holiness and hence deserving of jannah(heaven)!
There is no need to quote any scholar to refute this. Commonsense should tell us that a man called Muhammad who brought about an intellectual revolution in twenty three years of his mission could not have been illiterate, particularly as he belonged to the ruling, powerful and business class tribe of Quresh and had travelled out side.
Ummi was a word used by the Jews to describe people of the non-Abrahamic faith who had no Divine Book of their own. That is the Arabs(gentile) were not the people of the book as far as Jews were concerned. I am whole heartedly with Mr Khan, but he left out the besic cause of ignorance of the addresee.
That is, their reliance on so called "other books"-the apocrypha- compiled by the Central Asian crowd- as their article of Faith!
Rashid

Would Khilafat be able to take away the fatwa power of the Mullahs? Would it prevent the "confusion" that subjective interpretation by the muhalla-level, decentralized Muslim leadership causes?? Of course, such a Khilafat presupposes a moderate and enlightened Khalifa in the first place - and as the author suggests, he may not live long enough.

I may be wrong, but I believe Mr. MK Gandhi was all for Khilafat once upon a time. But perhaps for some of us that by itself may be a good enough reason to avoid Khilafat.

Comments anyone?

aslam644, that wasn't cousin marriage; that was veer-zaara replay that drlokraj was trying to arrange. Unfortunately, the life and the wife came in the way. :(

This bloody cousin marriage business is getting out of hand, its leading to people being murdered.

“
Girlfriend 'killed pregnant wife'

A pregnant teenager was stabbed to death in her bedroom in a ferocious and sustained attack by her husband's secret lover, a court heard. Harmohinder Kaur Sanghera, of Solihull, West Midlands, stabbed her boyfriend's wife in "jealousy and desperation", Manchester Crown Court heard. Sana Ali, 17, of Bury, Greater Manchester, received 42 wounds. The court heard Ms Sanghera, who denies murder, had been having an affair with Mrs Ali's husband Sair since July 2005. Mr Peter Wright QC, prosecuting, told the court that the relationship continued despite the Alis' arranged marriage in December last year. Stabbed in stomach Mr Wright said Mrs Ali's murderer had deliberately lifted her top and stabbed her in her abdomen at her Throstle Grove home. She was 11 weeks pregnant. "The deeply personal element points unhappily, and unequivocally, to the identity of the killer being the defendant," he said. He said the relationship between Mr Ali and Ms Sanghera, a 23-year-old dentistry student in Birmingham, ended after the attack in May this year. Mrs Ali was born in Pakistan and had been considered to marry her cousin who was also a Shia Muslim, the court heard.
Mr Ali and Ms Sanghera, a Sikh known as Mindy, started a relationship in 2005, but hid it from his parents. Mr Wright said: "He did not tell the defendant he was engaged to be married. "As the relationship became more serious Sair used religion as a pretence for a reason why it could not last." In December 2006 when Mr Ali got married Ms Sanghera became suspicious and Mr Ali told her he was engaged. In March Mr Ali told her his wife was pregnant, but Ms Sanghera said she would become his second wife. The pair had a muta marriage ceremony - a temporary arrangement which means they could live as husband and wife for a specified time. 'Alive and well' The time limit ran out on 16 May - five days after Mrs Ali was killed. On 10 May Ms Sanghera told a friend she was going to end the relationship and tell Mrs Ali about their affair. When arrested, Ms Sanghera told police Mrs Ali let her in after telling her she was an ex-girlfriend of her husband and had sent a teddy bear to him. Ms Sanghera said Mrs Ali was "alive and well, if not a little upset" when she left the house. Mr Wright said: "It is the Crown's case that this was no murder by a random psychopath who happened to pass after Sanghera left. "This was borne of jealousy and desperation." The case continues.

And no hamidm we cant hand over the keys to sheikh rashid and his hoes or benazir and her boys or nawaz and his hair transplant surgeon

hamidm

Well, marrying a female dog or marrying the koran - what's the difference? :)

so oracle of detroit what is the solution how will stability be restored?

Re: # 26

borivili,

.... i think you have it backwards - i am in a crisis because the country is once again going through a kanjarpana .......

........ but don't worry, the more things change, the more they remain the same ..... nothing drastic is going to happen - they had a curfew in malakand in the the seventies, again in the ninetees, and today they announced it again ..... as yogi beraa said, it is deja vu all over again .......

Hamid bhaand band kar ye apna kanjarpan your country is in a crises and all you are worried about is the mating habits of Sheikh Rashid, Jemima and assorted dogs

One nation, one family, one faith

BRITZ the hard hitting drama about the UK muslim suicide bomber

whose side your are on?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPPKBvgbn_k

do not give media space to these clowns--HT. I wasted many hours at University debating with these heretics. They are denounced universally by Muslim traditionalists all over the world since they are no more than a bunch of power-hungry, ignorant, fools who use a completely unidimensional interpretation of islam to further their one-point agenda. they are hypocrites of the first order. many do not even pray in their obsession with 're-establishing the caliphate'. they are just rabble. there is NO spirituality and very little knowledge. They are good at dialectic arguments which appear strong to the uninititiated. They are ahlul bidah'. They are unwittingly the biggest enemies of islam! Keep away from these heretics!
May Allah guide them. Read the excellent book The Islamist by Ed Husain--he was formerly a member of HT who saw the light thanks to the pure and noble teachings of traditional islam by people such as Shaykh Hamza Yusuf and the Sufi shaykhs.

Having said all that no Muslim would seriously argue that the return of the Caliphate would be a blessed event. However when and where it shall be is up to Allah. The traditional view is that there will now be no caliphate until the Mahdi. Even if there is, the caliph has to be from the tribe of Quraysh. Caliphate is imposed from above when Allah wills. It is not some pseudo-marxist mass popular movement which HT fantasise about whilst distorting history in their arguments.

#22 Posted by hamidm2

Hamid,
I would like chowk-staff to ban you for hurting my religious and cultural sentiments. BBC is out to defame the Hindu religion and you, being a Muslim, are thoroughly enjoying it. The BBC report is false and all logical people (with a scientific bent of mind) will see through it. For, dogs are not allowed into temples. This is because their caste is slightly below that of dalits and slightly above that of Muslims, Christians etc.
Now please stop this utter non-sen