The Battle for Pakistan

Ref#120, Oh sure , surgery and surgical operations certainly are not even the option rather a cure for many ills/problems in literal sense or in any other context.
Downing of twin towers was characterised as 'crusades'by His highness 'Bush' clan much before any link was established or any investigation was put in progress.'War' was pronounced against"Taliban" and neocreation "Alqaida"
without any definite proof or clear cut evidence. Muslim nations belonging to Middle Eastern part of Asia had long been the sufferer of USA's atrocities and knew what was the real motive behind all this bla bla of 'terrorism/extremisim/ or now obsolete term 'fundamentalism', but for liberal democrates of USA and many other enlightened western minds,the truth could not remained hidden despite of continuous propagunda and sustained attempts from conservative republican's media. And to this date many journalists and celebrities like 'Rosy o donald' openly says that 9/11 was 'inside job'!!!! "You can fool some one at one point in time but you cant fool all, all the time".
Like millions of people in world esp. in west protested for war against Iraq as soon as the truth was unveiled to them no sooner they will be realising that common people of Afghanistan and Pushtoons of Pakistan are the victims and target of Bush's cruel policy.
Dear Eiensteinwallah if you by any remote chance do possess the 0.000000000000000000000001% of Einstein's intelligence you would be in no way asking us to clean the dirt which actually has filled up ur eyes and clouded ur mind.
Dear who is evil and who is saint?Who is right and who is wrong?Who is oppressor and who is oppressed? There are no straight answers but whatever side you take we r all human and share an equal right of living on this only single planet Allah has given to us. If some of our Muslim brothers do want to follow 'Taliban' we have no right to proclaim them as terrorist. We have no right to push them to wall and complain when they try to use the same force. Our planet is already suffering by hostile forces of nature we dont need anymore human hostility please. PEACE, PEACE and PEACE.
I again say hostility towards other human race,prejudices and extreme intolerance against other's ideologies is a the malignant cancer killing us ruthlessly and for malignant carcinoma surgery is never a option, if you know medicne by the way.
Nikhat Riaz

So if USA decides that 'Alqaida and Taliban' are terrorist organizations should we blindly follow them and start war on their behalf by killing our own people?

No, you should just capture terrorists who dare to down two towers in USA. Provided you know how to do a sugical operation which also will not hurt rest of civilian population. Do you know how to do that? If you do not know how to do that then downing of two towers will be characterised as war. And then they will come with their armies and attack Pakistan. Which one do you prefer? Them attacking you or you cleansing evil within you? I think so USA is offering Pakistan here a fair option. You cleans your house of dirt in your house. They will be happy if you do the job right. Nobody is asking for a civil war in Pakistan. But if the task at hand can be done only by civil war then civil war it will be. If it can be done by surgery then it will be surgery. Post-911 scenario is this: USA and India want Paksitan to re-bottle the genie it let out. There is no second and third option. Options are only in how you do it effectively. Clamp down on Madrasa works then do it. Bombing works then do it. Internal intelligence works then do it. Civil war works then do it. Alternative to all these is a consortium of foreign powers doing these on your behalf.

#118 Look: "She was gang raped, and then the secret service agents smashed her head with bricks. "

Is this a threat to anyone questioning Musharraf's rule?

Nikhat,

I don't think you read all of my post, nor do I think you would answer my questions here. But it is worth a try.

Has the jihad in Pakistan taken ethnic colors or not?

Is the westernized lifestyle of IK in conflict with his political views or not?

Has a Vietnamese ever exploded himself among the families of American soldiers or functionaries?

What kind of struggle did Gandhi advocate and was it successful?

Are the sectarian and honor killings in Pakistan and Iraq Western propaganda or are they really happening?

And one point about Iran of Amnjd. About that, you have to talk to the family of Canadian journalist Zahra Kazimi. She was captured photographing the central prison in Tehran. She was 55. She was gang raped, and then the secret service agents smashed her head with bricks. As far as role models are concerned, I think you can do better. Just look inside your self.

Re: # 110
dear Look,
you have a right of your opinion this is what chowk is all about. But before labelling IK confused just LOOK inside a dictionary to give me the clear definition of 'extremism/terrorism' or review the history. Because these terms are only relative, a label given to us by the western media. In fact you yourself are not clear about the picture and buying whatever is thrown by western propagunda. Do you also call people of Palestine 'terrorists' like according to jews they are. what would you call 'Tamil Tigers', a terrorist organization?And what about people of occupied/Un-occupied Kashmir? I mean whichever side you take makes the story altogether different from you and intelligent concientious person try to LOOK from both angles befor deciding. Imran Khan is more than clear about this notion of hearing story of each side so the justice will be served.
If you go back little back in history people of Vietnaam were terroists according to USA like Iraqi people these days who are fighting against the invasion. And what about our own history? Who was the terrorist in struggle of Bangladesh, 'Muktee Bhanee or west Pakistan government? Would you call freedom fighters of 'Quit India movement' against British imperialism 'terrorists'? And if you follow the trail of oppression you will find all our holy names committing the same crime; like Hazrat Imam Hussain's fight was against tyrant Muslim ruler 'Ameer Mwaviah'. So if USA decides that 'Alqaida and Taliban' are terrorist organizations should we blindly follow them and start war on their behalf by killing our own people?
Dear Pakistanis you may have your likes and dislikes regarding Pakistani politics but at this time if we seriouly donot make an effort to stand up for our selves like Iran did and work with one objective in mind to fight for supermacy of justice and real democracy in Pakistan we will soon become history.
You can differ Imran Khan and oppose him as much you want as this is the first lesson of democracy and for which Imran Khan is fighting with a clear vision and pure heart.
Nikhat Riaz

Re: # 115

wow ... i like that quote.

following is one of my favorite quotes.......should be read by everyone on this site - specially those who want imran khan to quit.......

"....It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat. "


Theodore Roosevelt "Citizenship in a Republic,"
Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910

...pragmatists can, at best, keep a system going......however, it is only idealists who change the world........imran khan is an idealist with a great deal of conviction........the good thing is that he knows that he is an idealist, and he understands that more than likely his idealism will fail in pakistan........however, if it doesn't fail, it will change the landscape........

well-established western democracies require pragmatists......pakistan needs idealists.......whether they succeed or fail is not important.......as long as they become role models, even if they are fail, some idealists in the next generation will take over from them.......

......so even if people like imran khan end up quitting, then what will the next generation think?........they will simply give up, pack up and migrate to michigan.........

Re: # 107

Well atleast we agree on one thing ie IK is a political failure.

Just one correction: IK was beaten up by his political allies (IJT/JI), not the government.

As for the personal allegation, well dear malik sahib, it seems u have lost the grounds for civil argument thus the personal attacks. Rab rakha.

#111 laddu: I am merely wasting time on chowk, not fighting battles. Mullahs are irrelevant in the real struggle - which is the just struggle for freedom from their own military by Pakistanis.

Re: # 103

tahmed saheb,

It is a hopeless battle for people like you!! The mullahs are steadily on the way to power.

Hi everyone,

This being my first posting on Chowk, I greet all.

I just couldn't help myself. Reading Imran's article, I had to respond.

The inherent confusion in him is pulpating. He just seems unable to separate himself from his ethnic background. Not that all in his ethnic group are alike, far from it.

But somehow, anyone who is fighting terror and extremists becomes the enemy. Reason and judgement are put on the shelf.

He must be a really confused fellow. He cannot separate himself from where his needs lead him to, nor can he forget the tribe. Sad.

This logig of illogic that we should not do anything against anybody we, rightfully or wrongfully, consider our own, no matter what horrific crimes they commit, and at the same time, we should not side with anyone who is a foreigner, no matter how right they are, is a classic.

Mr. Khan, please face the truth, and don't fear it. Extremists are a danger to the entire human race. That they are located in particular locations is not the fault of the world. Therefore, fighting them does not mean that people don't like a certain ethnic group. Please face the truth.

sou bat ki ek bat...

Pakistan ki Phatti...

Democracy karo to bhi maro... nahin karo to bhi maro...

isse achchha to US should nuclear bomb now. Now better than later. Pakistan ki Phatti... Big time.

The critical situation in Pakistan can't be correctly understood if one overlooks axis of evil that is ripping apart the soul of Pakistani nation: Al Qaeda-Taliban! To this, however, a reminder of history must be added: the invasion of the Roman and Assyrian Empires by barbarian tribes. In the latter case, the state came as a result of its overstretch and indulgence in foreign wars -- thus leaving important flanks open -- came tumbling down by the ambush of the evil tribes.

A similar distraction from the core issue of the state security is currently seen in Pakistan due to the power-hunger of Gen. Musharraf resulting in the overstretch of the military machine. The battle of ideologies has apparently and understandably been won by the nihilistic armies of AlQaeda-Taliban which are no different than the Gog and Magog with their deep-seated hatred of modernity which makes them unfit for a coexistence with the by far forward-looking Pakistani nation and therefore this barbarian invasion must be eliminated before it eliminates the civilization!

The religious parties in Pakistan have been quite naively condoning the spread of ´Sharia` by the Gog and Magog not knowing that what is being spread by these monsters is not any religious law but barbarianism. They must’ve the foresight to see that danger that these ´Khawarajeens` of our time pose to civilization and consequently must declare total jihad against them but they prefer to do the folly of calling these monsters their brother in faith. What faith? The love of God and the sense of responsibility towards God or the destruction of every man-made thing on the planet because of its incompatibility with their stone-age worldview.

One can't and shouldn’t overlook here the connection between the Talibans and the Pashtun man’s psychology which remains backward looking and fearing any change in the tribal culture and has an irrestible appeal in the Islamic attritions of 7th century. But the majority of Pakistan remains alien to this barbarian culture and therefore the total war against the armies of evil must be unleashed. The battle is not to be won by the paramilitary forces -- as has been correctly suggested by an author here – but by the professionally trained military. The fact that these monsters have no respect for life gives the Pakistani state the right to even use bio-chemical weapons against these barbarians – to fulfil their desire of ´Shahada` and to save the costly lives of Pakistani soldiers.

rf786 "founding principles of Mr Khan's justice movement includes forming political partnerships that suite HIS on=bjective."

and what is his objective? if his objective was to gain wealth, he already had it. if it were to gain fame, he already had it. and if his objective was to get onto the ladder to the top, he could have easily accepted a wazarat by joining hands with any of the corrupt looters who rule pakistan. or if he were like you, he could have just sat in London and interacted on chowk or written articles, instead of getting beaten up.

and so I agree with you that Imran is indeed a failure in politics. to succeed in politics in pakistan, you have to be a zameer firosh, a looter, a thug, and an illiterate.

Re: # 105

malik99

founding principles of Mr Khan's justice movement includes forming political partnerships that suite HIS on=bjective. First, bezamir and najaiz sharif were corrupt, then they became his political allies. Mush was the savior then he became his enemy. Yesterday it was JI and Qazi Hussein, now we all know what happened next. So lets not talk about principles and insult the common folk.

As for the Cancer hospital, hats off to the Khan, there is no argument. At the same time, what does my father have to do wiith this discussion u moron. If u wish to enter that dark abyss of familial abuse, then be prepared for the same treatement.

Finally, u r entitled to your opinions as much as anyone else on this forum. It is my humble view that Imran Khan the politician is a failure, momentum player who has no vision or political identity except for those he is ever so willing to condemn and then jump into bed.

rf786 "He is what we call in the investment field a "momentum player""

lets see makes imran a "populist" and a "momentum player":

firstly, one of the founding principle of Mr. Khan's justice movement is the establishment of an independent and affordable justice system. while rf786 may be able to buy justice using his dad's connections, majority of pakistanis cant even hope to get any justice.

secondly, one of the defining accomplishment of Imran is his gifting of a world class cancer hospital to poor and wretched pakistanis. while rf786's dad may be able to seek cancer treatment in UK and US, majority of pakistanis cant even afford to buy a plane ticket to US, much less money for the treatment.

So if these things make imran a "populist", then i think he is still much better than all "realists" who have learned the "real" art of politiking in Pakistan by using any means necessary to gain wealth and power. Imran may never become a PM or a president, because he is too principled, but he sure has taught average pakistanis that sitting idle whie the "realists" loot the country to extinction is not an option.

Mr. Khan has made some very valid points in this article that no one will disagree. But then again, has made some erroneous assumptions based on his ethnic background or political agenda.


Mr. Khan says:

"For a start there will be a quantum leap in terrorism. His policies have alienated the Pushtuns in general and the tribal Pushtuns in particular. There are around a million armed men in the tribal areas. Does it make any logical sense that to capture a couple of thousand Al-Qaeeda we invoke the hostility of around a million armed men – all natural guerilla fighters? And that is why history tells us the British lost more soldiers in the tribal areas than the whole of the sub-continent during their Raj."

Mr. Khan, why are these so-called warriors receiving money from their arab (foreign) guests? Why is it that a crime committed under traditional honor or Pukhtoon heritage not considered a crime? Dear sir, your thoughts on this subject are tinted with bias and show your political immaturity. Talibans were not created yesterday, nor are they limited in their resources. Either we choose to fight them or submit to their obscurantist ideology under which any ADULTERER is wajib ul qataal ie Mr. Imran Khan will be the first to be hanged.

Then Mr. Khan very conviniently passes the buck:

"Moreover fundamentalism is on the rise in most of Northern Pakistan because of Musharraf's "enlightened moderate" media policies. There is great reaction amongst the masses who perceive this as a license to be vulgar. The Lal Masjid "warriors" belonged to this category. While in Swat & Dir, there has been a rising discontentment due to the poor governance system ever since the two regions became a part of Pakistan in 1974. Thanks to Musharraff being perceived as an American Stooge imposing an anti-Islamic agenda on the country, all these movements are morphing into one."

Yes, Mr. Line of fire is full of sh*t, but then you were the elected representative of that area, how many times have you protested against this extremism? On the contrary, Mr. Khan has allied himself with these extremist. Munafiqat/hypocrisy.

In summary, Mr. Khan makes the right kind of noises that are populists but not realists. He is what we call in the investment field a "momentum player", these guys are short-term players with no apatite for structural shifts or long term positions.

LOOP: Those 5 "values" are the opposite of the FUNDAMENTAL MESSAGE OF THE QURAN - the fundamental message being, that individual responsibility befor God to distinguish between right and wrong, with the individual being held responsible by GOd on this account before God on the Judgement Day.

You are preaching the pagan "mullah religion" which says that if you do some magical things (treat Arabic as a divine language, which is the opposite of what the Quran teaches), follow a particular fashion (i.e. keep a beard), and hide the message of the Quran under hadith (which is the tool of the mullah devils to lead muslims astray from the fundamental message).

Repent your evil ways while you still have a chance.

why is it that some of us out there bring their hatred for islam in every debate. this article was all about politics and imran khan and mush. stick to the point please..
anyways, now that you have let me say this: if a mullah means the following things and if the mullah-factories instill these values in people then every muslim should be a mullah
1. pray in congregation 5 times a day
2. know how to read the Quran with proper tajweed
3. know basic arabic so as to understand the Quran
4. have 101 knowledge on Hadith
5. have a beard in light of sunnah etc

plus en plus, the pakis love using the word mullah and have created an alien space being out of it. islam does not believe in an ordained clergy, every muslim should have the knowledge of religion, be able to lead the prayers etc.. if you all became better muslims we wont be having these fitnas.

Re: # 96
its sad to hear such comments. making fun of islamic values immediatly undermines your iman.
The beard and maswak are both emblems of the Prophet (pbuh)and making fun of that isnt humour its blasphmy!
its people like you whose thinking enrages the muslims and makes them take up arms.. if you were infront of me and i had a ''danda'' i would knock you hard and fast!

People are listening up to Khan now. But here, the people rarely count and you have to be dishonest to succeed - he is better off with his social work to help Pakistan, because it brings in the change and we've seen it.

anil #: " would say that people standing / sitting around and watching should be embarrassed. The secretary who got beaten should have felt humiliated......There is nothing in it for the secretary to be embarrassed."

yes, i agree........this is my whole point......the person doing the beating should have been criticised and have been forced to feel embarrased........however, the people seemed to think otherwise......

kind of like a person who has been raped being forced to feel embarassed.......instead of the rapist.......

Bulleya writes ".......i think, this, in a nutshell, is the social viewpoint (or what it has been reduced to) in pakistan.......i.e. its the rule of power......if you can beat up someone, you gain respect.......if you get beat up, you are considered a loser........

no rule of law...... "


Did you expect anything different with the US running affairs in the world? Violence is as American as Apple Pie as they say, and with it goes the status of being the power state lording it over the "losers"; ruling through cruise missile "diplomacy" and wars without end and total militarization of the world, and you thought the world would give up the "might is right" principle.

What are the peons (in the Pak Army) going to do but follow their master in maintaining their mini fiefdom given to them via the MAJ?

hamidm: No i dont mean SA. SA merely provides the capital. I mean the dictatorships in Pakistan under whose watch mullahs become lions, and when they are not there mullahs are bakris.

Re: # 94

zyxius,

... look, i am not talking about killing 'people' with beards - some of my best friends have beards and i myself used to have one ......... i am talking about killing 'vermin' with beards ..... people and vermin - they are not the same thing .... how do you know vermin? ...... well, it is like pornography - you know it when you see it .....a beard, maswak, bad body odor, a pet sheep on a leash, shaven armpits, a tasbeeh, the mark of the devil on the forehead, bruised and calloused ankles, a lota, mumbling in arabic and a suicide belt are all good indicators .....

Re: # 92

tahmed,

"what about the mullah-growing factory? any thoughts on that? " ......... you mean saudi arabia? ...... sure .... you know that i have always been for liberating the province of hijaz and placing it under a grand mufti with a hat that is bigger than the pope's .........

#91 - You are both saying that you would like to kill all people with beards, control peoples thoughts, and force surgical procedures on the population....sounds like Nazism.

I also remember you saying (some posts ago) that you wouldn't dare speak your beliefs in public in Pakistan. So let me get this straight...you do all the talking on the net and wouldn't dare utter a peep otherwise....is that about right? Hamidm...since you do live in Detroit it may be wise for your bullshit within reasonable limits because even this cowardly net based machoism of yours falls into legal gray areas nowadays and could get you locked up in a real situation...something you are not used to.

Re: # 83

Romair:

I would say that people standing / sitting around and watching should be embarrassed. The secretary who got beaten should have felt humiliated.

Minister must have been a bully, he would have needed his boss's presence to be embarrassed.

There is nothing in it for the secretary to be embarrassed.

hamidm: what about the mullah-growing factory? any thoughts on that?

Re: # 90

zyxius,

... we are not talking about killing people, we are talking about killing mullahs .....

#75 Kuntakinte
#79 Hamidm

You guys are saying stuff on the net that can pretty much get people locked up nowadays...talking about killing mass numbers of people in Pakistan...and you say that Mullahs are extremists?!!

urstruly #85 sounds good. what do you plan to do?

kuntakinte: Surely you must be an expert on Roots. As you know, at the root of the hair of each beard sits a little man who fertilizes the area around the root. This little man wears a uniform that dares not take off..

So, as bjkumar points out - beards simply grow back. The problem is at the Root. As Kuntakinte you must understand that.

So I guess it is agreed....we form the new Young Turks and kill all people who either have now, or are thinking of getting a Koran or visit any of the mosques. After we get rid of the first generation, we need some forced electrolysis to make sure none of the future gens grow beards.

Lets brains storm...what else do we need to do to make sure no one thinks of religion again?

#79 hamidm2

[eliminate everyone with a beard]

Sir, the problem with the "beards" is...what has forever been the problem with beards.

They ALWAYS grow themselves back! :)

Short of electrolysis, little else works.

Re: # 84 Then it becomes our responsibility to let the truth reach to the people of Pakistan through:


YOUTUBE
GOOGLE VIDEO
YAHOO VIDEO
iFILM
MSN VIDEO
AOL VIDEO.

We will have to carry the torch from here on.

sad news...GEO has become the latest victim of The General's paranoia. It has been ordered to shut own. :-(

....a year or so ago, there was a piece in a pakistani newspaper, stating that a minister had physically beaten up a secretary or assistant secretary (?) level person, who was working in the minister's team........the minister was a young guy.....while secretaries etc. are the senior most positions in pakistan's civil service......

i asked some people who were listening to the news, about who had been embarrased in this situation......the secretary or the minister......all these guys were very senior individuals in their professions, and quite educated....

.....other than one, everyone replied, "Secretary has been embarrassed," implying that if someone physically beats up another, it is the person getting beat up who is to be blamed and who has embarassed himself......this crowd included a very senior ex-member of pakistan's judiciary....

.......i think, this, in a nutshell, is the social viewpoint (or what it has been reduced to) in pakistan.......i.e. its the rule of power......if you can beat up someone, you gain respect.......if you get beat up, you are considered a loser........

no rule of law......

Re: # 79

You already have your gukking attaturk; and that is what he is best capable of doing. At least he is killing citizens of Pakistan like flies - not a useless a/hole after all.

AN APPEAL TO THE CORRUPT RULING ELITE OF PAKISTAN

"In the name of God, please let remain a shred of decency and law in this country. But if you have forgotten God; if you do not recognize God; if you have no fear of God left in you, at least listen to what (Winston) Churrchill has said. After all he was once your master"

............Javed Choudry (Zero Point)

http://www.express.com.pk/images/NP_LHE/20071116/Sub_Images/1100300012 -2.gif

hamidm yaar..just make the food non-halaal and watch your theory work to perfection.

how to start a revolution and kill a mullah

Re: # 75

kuntakinte,

..... i really like the idea of an ataturk-like revolution where we can eliminate everyone with a beard and a pet sheep overnight ...... but who will lead this revolution? .... and how will we get the people moving.....

...... now listen to me, i have an idea .... the only time pakistanis move really fast is when they make a beeline for the buffet table at a wedding (or funeral) ..... so why don't we get imran khan and other intellectuals to throw a big party for the people, set up a big buffet table, and then put the mullahs and their sheep between the buffet table and the 'people' ..... as soon as aitizaz ahsan shouts, "khana khul gaya!", the people will break into a stampede and trample the mullahs to death .........

..... of course, there is always the danger that the mullahs will do an about turn and join the people in making a mad dash for the buffet ........

Iron cuts iron. Demonstrate in favour of Kiyani.

Iron cuts iron. Demonstrate in favour of Kiyani.

Sorry...don\\\'t know how I accidentally repeated these posts.

I think what Pakistan needs is an Ataturk-like revolution led by the intellectuals in which the religious classes are liquidated overnight. Why beat around the bush and pussy-foot around the subject...we all know (or at least should) that there is no room for people from the dark ages in todays world.

Liquidate the SOBs!

I think what Pakistan needs is an Ataturk-like revolution led by the intellectuals in which the religious classes are liquidated overnight. Why beat around the bush and pussy-foot around the subject...we all know (or at least should) that there is no room for people from the dark ages in todays world.

Liquidate the SOBs!

In due course of time, Hindus will cease to be Hindus in the physical sense ....

You are free. You are free to go to your Kabrastan and Smashan Bhumi and any other place of mayhem and violence
in this state of Pakistan. You may use Kalashinov Ak-47 or zammokas that has nothing to do with the business of
the state.

Tahmed32 {"All Pakistanis need to shed their differences at this time and join hands to get rid of dictatorship. There will be time enough later for politics as usual."}

Hypo Chacha Al Butteesi:

You guys want Urdu-speaking Mohajirs in Karachi and Hyderabad to start demonstrating against Perv the Dick Traitor. You want us to use our sizable presence and significant wealth overseas to influence western politicians to bring pressure on Mushy. You want us to support Bezamir Bhutni and Najaaiz Sharif so that either one of them can come to power. Once in power, these proven civilian dictators and corrupt leaders will bring back the military to start killing Mohajirs by the thousands. At least Mushy put an end to the slaughter of Mohajirs by their own military.

No deal. You guys can go climb the Minar-e-Pakiland and jump into the Ravi in the middle of December.

{"The Battle for Pakistan"}

Khan Sahib,
Really? Is it true that you are somehow related to the gallant warrior, "Ghazi "Tiger" Niazi? Considering how the Niazis battle for Pakistan, I am placing my bet on Ghazi Jagjit Singh Arora - at least he taught the "Ghazi if we win and Shaheed if we die" Tiger how to sing like a bulbul.

Re: # 66

GT mian,

.... you are very kind in your assessment of paki intelligence, but i can assure you that you have been misled ...... as i have said before, pakistanis are nothing but indians with a bad attitude, and punjabis are pakistanis with bad attitudes ......... as for pathans, it is not a race or a creed - it is a state of mind that can overcome any unfortunate human being at any time ........

..... as it says in the only book that most pakis have ever read, "verily, we are doomed !"

p.s. i love the word 'verily'.. how come no one ever uses it in daily conversation ?

I think what Pakistan needs is an Ataturk-like revolution led by the intellectuals in which the religious classes are liquidated overnight. Why beat around the bush and pussy-foot around the subject...we all know (or at least should) that there is no room for people from the dark ages in todays world.

Liquidate the SOBs!

Doesn't Masadi sahib remind you of the Bus driver lady from South Park, especialy when he gets upset. :-)

#64 Posted by cliftonbridge:

"Maybe Masadi sahab could write the intro :)"

I agree.

Dear Hamid:

You say: "all my frieds and family are pakistanis ....... so no, i do not have faith in the intelligence of my fellow pakistanis ....... masadi is a prime example".

Now, I do not have as many Pakistani friends as you do. Most of the Pakistanis I interact with (almost daily) are here in chowk. In my opinion, they seem very bright, creative and informed. At the least, they seem more intelligent than us horrible hindoos. (Gosh, I never thought that I would say this).

{" the Army against its own people.... Hardly surprising since crooks, criminals and even terrorists (according to the Canadian Supreme Court the MQM is a terrorist organization) are sitting at the helm of affairs. "}

Imran Sahib,
First of all, please allow me to offer my sympathies to you for Huge Grant stealing your Aunt Jemima syrup. Let me assure you that this weasel will do anyone, anywhere, anytime - remember the Divine incident in LA where he had a real Aunt Jemima applying syrup to the waffle. Anyway, Huge Grant lost Liz Hurley to some Injun Coomar guy - his loss.

Now, I have an issue with your hatred of Urdu-speaking Mohajirs. You even labeled the MQM as a terrorist organization. I am glad that you don't think of Alkayda, the Tally Ban, and the JI dudes who hauled your ass to the police as terrorists.

O great captain, my captain, you seem to have lost your keen perception, your rapid bowling, and your patient batting. The image of a disheveled "quintogenarian" being attacked by pygmies in Lahore was very disappointing to many of your avid fans.

Now you have really done it - you have, like that other bastion of aryan purity, Hypo Chacha Al Butteesi, started to pick on dark-skinned Mohajirs. Next, you will probably preach to the cheap seats for rapid applause as you passionately argue against the repatriation of "dirty" Biharis from Bangladesh. Maybe the Jewish Princess knew a lot more than most Pakis do.

In no particluar context i just have to say HamidM is the best thing thats ever happened to Pakistani politics.

I hope you dont just waste your breath on chowk, in all seriousness you should write your own book. All Pakis could use a good laugh in these sad times.

Maybe Masadi sahab could write the intro :)

Re: # 56

GT,

you said, " hope you have faith in the intelligence of your fellow Pakistanis" .......

.....i know hundreds, maybe thousands, of them - all my frieds and family are pakistanis ....... so no, i do not have faith in the intelligence of my fellow pakistanis ....... masadi is a prime example

Some fool has red flagged my post #54 and #57, might I ask why? Or is it just some moronic tendency? They want to get me banned from here, following in the footsteps of the dictator. Go right ahead, I don't give a damn, nothing so out of the ordinary that I am stating, its all out now, banning me wont do a damn thing to mask the facts....

I can’t believe some people are advising imran khan to quit politics, we don’t want him to quit what we want is dozens more like imran khan. To break the stranglehold of mullahs and feudals, we need educated middle class men and women to enter politics if we are to have a thriving democracy.

Tahmed doesn't like Imran because Imran has been able to point to the source of all our troubles, the US elite and its occupation force, and its neo imperialist policies. Khan is as much capable as ZAB of developing grass roots support, he just needs a start getting past the political muck hole, that describes the matrix that envelopes the Pakistani public. Once he gets that start, that the ZAB did under Ayub for example, he will fluorish as a people supporter. How to deceive the deceivers is that task he has to figure out how to achieve first, more important than any student protest, at the current time. Tahmed wants to use him to get rid of Musharraf and then would spit him out, much like the Americans spit out Pakistan after using and abusing it and destroying our political institutions using their occupation force. An immoral person like tahmed should be recognized by all as public enemy. He is stabbing our people and those that sacrifice for them (like Imran) in the back....

hamidm #53 I agree with GT #56 here. We are talking "situational competence". Imran Khan would I agree be way beyond his depth as prime minister or even as political comentator. But no one is talking of electing Imran Khan, nor does he stand a chance given his that his "situational competence" does not extend into either developing grass-roots organization that PPP has excelled in e.g., or in making a ZAB-like pitch that appeals to the true "silent majority" of Pakistan (the poor whom you joke about as Abdul Paki).

But Imran Khan has the image of being socially conscious, and popular sports star, and as such is useful for Job 1 - putting an end to dictatorship. He is yet another effective demonstration in exposing Musharraf's fraudulent claims of being the Great Modernizer. The cops may be laughing at the arrest which not only made headlines around the world and also no doubt gave points to ponder to many at the seemingly odd sight of religious fanatics coming to musharraf's aid. Rest assured their big boss Musharraf was not.

Pak. students protest Imran's detention

Lahore (PTI): Hundreds of Pakistan's Punjab University students on Friday protested against the role played by the students' wing of the hardline Jamaat-e-Islami in the arrest of cricketer-turned-politician Imran Khan.

The protest on the campus here was unprecedented in the province of Punjab, where all educational institutions have for decades been a stronghold of the Islami Jamiat Tulaba (IJT), the Jamaat's student wing that came to prominence during the tenure of late military dictator Gen Zia-ul-Haq.

Hundreds of students, including girls, chanted slogans against the IJT during protests on Thursday and Friday. A large number of students have quit their IJT membership to join protesters shouting "Go Jamiat go".

Imran Khan, the chief of the Tehreek-e-Insaf party, was detained by IJT members and handed over to police when he came to the university on Wednesday to join a student protest. He has been charged under the Anti-Terrorism Act and is being held in the Dera Ghazi Khan Jail in Punjab province.

During the protests, students cheered the former cricket captain by chanting "Prime Minister of Pakistan Imran Khan, Imran Khan".

"This is unprecedented. Thousands of students have united against the IJT," a university teacher said. The IJT has suspended 17 members involved in manhandling Khan but the Tehreek-e-Insaf has accused the Jamaat of "betraying" its chief.

Law student Rai Kashif, who quit his IJT membership, said: "A large number of law students have quit IJT. The Jamiat has cheated us."

Women students said they were tired of being "harassed" by the IJT. "We support the lifting of emergency and Imran Khan is the leader of progressive and modern Pakistan," one of them said.

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/000200711161612.htm

hamid is wrong, the student protest against the Jamiat yesterday revealed that the strength of numbers at PU is not with them, if anything Imran has fragmented their membership. Their leadership, on the run after their offices were ransacked, was seen as appasing the dictator because of what they did, and that didn't go down too well with the rank and file

Dear hamid,

You say "..... i don't like the dictator any more than you, but i just don't have any faith in the 'opposition' or the public either ...... it would be nice if we could get rid of the clown in uniform and replace him with a few clowns in civies,"

I hope you have faith in the intelligence of your fellow Pakistanis. They too realise what you say above; and are hopefully fighting for the right to get rid of clowns, whenever they want too, in a consistent and orderly manner.

Re: # 49

GT,

..... you obviously don't understand pakistan's student politics ...... the islami jamiat-i-harami is the single largest student group - it is well armed, highly organized, motivated and ruthless ...... the other students from places like lums and fast are a bunch of pansies who are more worried about their gpa than politics (as they should be) ....... imran khan leading these students in revolt would be like asghar khan leading a procession of hijras from abbotabad to islamabad - half of them would run off with their boyfriends before they reached havelian .......

........ the only party that can face the jamiat is the mqm - unfortunately, they do not have much of a presence outside karachi ......

tahmed writes "All Pakistanis need to shed their differences at this time and join hands to get rid of dictatorship"

To get rid of "dictatorship", we need to get rid of what perpetuates dictatorship in our country, the US occupation force and the US elite that feed and direct it. Are you, tahmed willing to join hands with me to totally revamp Pakistan's foreign policy to date and completely cut out the Americans from any and every interference, and cut off our priorities from America first to Pakistan and the Third World. If "NO", then you are a mere bullshitter and you and I can never "forget our differences".

Re: # 50

tahmed mian,

..... i don't like the dictator any more than you, but i just don't have any faith in the 'opposition' or the public either ...... it would be nice if we could get rid of the clown in uniform and replace him with a few clowns in civies, but i don't see it happening unless negroponte can get kiani to 'talk' to mushy ........

.... as for imran khan, the less said the better - the man is an embarassment to his children and fans ...... for months he has been ranting and raving like a halwa-crazed mullah, playing footsie with mardoodites, defending the barbarians of waziristan and swat, blaming america for everything including his thinning hair ... and then he goes out and gets 'kidnapped' by the jamiat-i-harami ! ...... even the policemen sent out to 'arrest' him are the laughing stock of their collegues at the thana ..........

GT: Not just the youth. All Pakistanis need to shed their differences at this time and join hands to get rid of dictatorship. There will be time enough later for politics as usual.

GT: Not just the youth. All Pakistanis need to shed their differences at this time and join hands to get rid of dictatorship. There will be time enough later for politics as usual.

hamidm: better a naked charlatan than a wardi-flaunting charlatan.

and i dont recall gandhi making statements only a charlatan like musharraf could make (e.g. "the blunt-speaking advisers around me told me that Pakistan needs me to stay on as president")!!

What Imran Khan had done, i.e. go to the students, shook more than just the dictator. It shook two despotic political parties. His arrest will, hopefully, give students a symbol to rally around. Symbolic gestures are valuable. On 23rd October, 1956, some Hungarians brought down a statue of Stalin and dragged it on the streets. 200,000 people came out in support. The police resorted to firing and several people died. Next day Russian tanks rolled in to "finish" off a movement ...... Actually the movement did not die ... It simply continued. Things take time and it requires all kinds to further a progressive movement. Imran Khan has done his job ... It is time for the Pakistani youth to carry the movement further.

bjkumar,

..... let's not mention the digusting naked charlatan in an article by imran khan! ..... and please don't post another picture - i just had breakfast

#45

Jum dada,

Ms. Naidu was entitled to her opinions, like anybody else (including your favorite chowkie pal).

It is also possible she was saying that stuff to encourage him not to go to jail, because she was extremely fond of him. It is well known that Ms. Naidu was inspired to join the Indpendence movement because of him and she accompanied Gandhiji all along - including his journeys to the jail.

Indians who are going easy on Imran Khan ought to know that Hamid Gul was reported to be one of his closest advisers. If there’s any truth to those accounts, the man is fundamentally unsound.

Beej bhaiyya,

You must have heard what Sarojini Naidu had once said "It costs the nation a fortune to keep the Mahatma poor" or something to that effect. And unlike me or my favourite chowkie pal, she wasn't an acolyte of the "vampire"

Regards

Majumdar yaar,

You know the truth put try to poke and rile people up (it won't work).

When Gandhiji was jailed in Agha Khan's house, it was not a healthy abode. From all accounts, it was dark, dreary and mosquitos- and other bugs-infested. In particular, it was highly damaging to the health of the Kasturba, who did not survive her stay there.

The following is an excerpt from the account given by Sushila Nayar.

---

"Kasturba passed away on the 22nd of February, 1944 in Bapu's lap. She had been ailing for months. She was a patient of chronic bronchitis with asthma. It had weakened her heart. In Aga Khan palace detention camp at Poona, she started getting attacks of paroxysmal tachycardia. A terminal bronchopneumonia and failing of kidney function put out the flame of life in her frail body. She had been her husband's constant companion for more than sixty years. The two, while they were still children, had been married and had grown up together to become man and wife, had produced and reared four sons and had taken a vow of celibacy by the age of thirty, when many young men and women today have still to chose their life's partners.

Bapu had seen many deaths. But I think Kasturba's death hit him the hardest.

He had been, on that fateful day, delayed for his evening walk because. of an argument whether Ba should be given penicillin injections or not. He decided against it and went for a wash before going down for a stroll in the compound of the detention camp. Just then Ba called out to him. He came and sat down on her bed. She was restless. He asked her to lie down, She laid her head on his lap and her breathing changed. In less than five minutes, she passed into eternal peace. A tear stood on his cheek as he gently laid her head on the pillow.

He kept the vigil for hours sitting by her side, reading the Gita. The next morning the body was bathed, decked with bangles and Kumkum and taken out for cremation on the ground of the detention camp. The Government were afraid to let the cremation take place outside. Her body had become water logged due to cardiac and renal failure and it took a long time for the flames to consume it. Solicitous friends:. asked Bapu to retire. He was not very strong physically and at 74 having taken his due share of night-nursing- during her illness, he was physically and emotionally quite exhausted. But he refused to budge from the- cremation ground till the whole thing was over.

Late that night as he lay down to sleep, his pent up agony was expressed in one sentence: "After sixty years of constant companionship, I cannot imagine life without her".

The vacuum created by her death was painful not only for him but also for all of us the inmates of the Ashram and even to the casual visitors who used to- find solace in meeting her when they could not see Bapu."

Beej bhaiyya,

A very happy Chhat to you!!!

(personal sacrifices)

Like staying as a sarkari mehmaan in Agha Khan's palace.

Regards

Hamidm2 sahib (and a few like-minded Pakistanis),

Only the Jinnahs of the world get a country handed over to them without making any personal sacrifices!

By being arrested for protesting Pakistani martial law and spending time in jail, Mr. Imran Khan places one notch above the Jinnah. I wish him the nest.

The real dawn is not very far, IMHO!

---

Ahmedmadani sahib,

It is the easiest thing in the world for the Pakistanis to take over Kashmir, indeed all of India. But you guys need to learn the language of pyar-mohabbat - something your countrymen have proved themselves singularly inadept at so far!

jayp writes "the tree million budhist in india who escaped from the chinese are poorer than the abdul paki."

When the US tries to create a buddhist rebellion in China and pits groups against each other, poverty of the recruits will be to their advantage. People who are well vested in the system don't rebel against it. The millions that escaped Afghanistan to come to Iran and Pakistan were peaceful, the book had nothing to do with it because most of them had never read it, but poverty was the plight of most which acted as catalyst to begin a structure, a factory that even when the intial setup team is taken away functions by itself. For you bigotry of mindset describes your methodology- unfortunately you are not as important at the current time to the US to implement its foreign agenda, if you were chosen as enemy #1, you'd porduce similar acts of suicide and "terrorims"- regardless of the books you read and the doggies you marry.... People like you who reduce the calibre of discussion on chowk to an infantile level of bigotry, i.e my dad is better than yours or bigger than yours, need to moved to a different forum. Learn how to think and reason before you mess up these forums...fool.

Imaran will be in prison for some time, Jamima is trying for the gordon brown to make the call.

Benazir was released due to a call from the US. Hamid gul ws released due to a call from saudi king. Pak troops are released and given Rs 500 by the tribals due to their good behavior and the weapons they surrendered.

What do the pakistanis want, they should recall the speech

" you are free, to receive calls from any one and obey them..."

A very courageous and truthful Pakistani.

I will protest on Imran being freed immediately.

masadi saab,

So you are also one among them, who believe that jihadis are due to poverty and support of the US. The US support vanished more than a decade ago, and now who is funding the jihadis, teh abdul pakis with the collections at teh shops and teh madrassas.

Then poverty, well you all seem to claim that poverty is the previlage of pakistani muslims. Take it from me masadi saab, the tree million budhist in india who escaped from the chinese are poorer than the abdul paki. Why no budhist terrorism, I may ask.

It is all in the book, and every muslim dominated country will eventually fall into the jihadic cez pool.

Masadi sahib,

Re: 31 Thanx.

(The islamists and the army are together again. The farce is now over. Any one can see that battle in Pakistan is now between the liberal, moderate on one side and the islamist on the other side.)

I presume HP sain pits the battle in Pak between the liberal, moderate on one side and military-mullah nexus on the other. So I presume you and HP sain are liberalooons and moderatooons. Right?

Regards

The US operates through its occupation force

Reported by The Independant

John Negroponte, the deputy US secretary of state, will meet not only General Musharraf but also General Ashfaq Kiyani, the deputy head of the armed forces, the man poised to take over the senior military role should General Musharraf – as he has promised he will – take off his uniform and become a civilian leader.

jayp shut up with the hoodbuoy stuff. This BS has a history and poverty and neglect is definitely a factor that helped the Americans mainstream the jihadists with motivational, material and military support, without which they were amounting to nothing- they US used them then for its "cold war" and is using it now for its new war without end "the wot". You on the other hand are a bigot just like them and when it comes time to use you, you will hop to as well...

#31, read HPs post because given their agenda and history down deep they are afraid of the people, dictatorship suits them better

Imran,

You are also a true paki elite. You do have the view that jihadis are in response to poverty and lack of governance. Read some of hoodboy articles and find out for yourself ahat is taught in schools, the govt schools, the k for kafir education. That is what is creating a support base for the jihadis among the ilks of tahmed and ylh and you, who refuse to accept the core reason for the jihadis.

Masadi sahib,

Why has the Jamaat fallen out with IK, both of them are anti-WOT and anti-Mush right?

Regards

The Jamiat leadership was thrown out of PU, my sources tell me that the rank and file of them among the studets is quite distraught, this "move" to hand Imran to the police will affect their future membership, their offices were ransacked and the strength of numbers was much greater than any the Jamiat mustered.

I like Imran, he is a true muslim, and he believes in polygamy. He does not entertain the idea of child support, which again is islamic. That is about all, that makes Imran a true pakistani.

tahmed (the peon of the West) writes "His answer was that in order to get anything done in Pakistan you have to be politically strong - not a convincing answer, as Edhi's example as proved."

Your question was based on your worship of all things Western, you do not want anyone making inroads into politics who has an anti-American/pro-people stance. Edhi has proven absolutely nothing. All his efforts have not even made a tiny dent in the poverty and deprivation of the Pakistani public becuase these problems, systemic problems, require systemic and not private solutions, and the only way to do that is by acquiring a position of power at the state. Imran's only problem is his naivety in believing that he could convert his popularity in cricket (due to an apathetic public interested in games and distraction) into popularity in the political field (where apathy is a curse not a blessing)- the best way for him to move forward would have been through established paths, like the ZAB and then strike at the right time- as an independant he will amount to nothing, not for the country and not even for his own kids- so he needs to do some serious thinking while in prison.

On the other hand peons of the West and leeches like tahmed need to leave our politics alone. Just because I agree with him regarding Musharraf being a sob, does not mean we agree for the same reason. He detests Musharraf becuase Musharraf has fallen out of favor with the US elite, before when Musharraf was in their support he said not a single word against him, I detest Musharraf because he is a military dictator who is part of the problem that is destroying political institutions and civil society in our country. There is a big difference between our views. Know your enemy, the peon of the West who claims to be all caring and lovey dovey about the Pakistanis but is actually stabbing them in the back.

Hope for pakistan

There is a news item that malaysian airlines is planning to "tunku" food, the preferred food of the father of malaysia. Here is a suggestion from a pakistani to have jinnah food on PIA.

What will that be, Gin and pork, and that would be atrue haram for the islamic republic. This shows the ignorence of teh andul paki about their own leader.

From dawn of today


Our leadership always tries to simulate the Malaysian model of progress, but when we compare our civil liberties, law and order, public services, i.e. health care, transport, education, civic and recreation facilities, behaviour of social elites, quality of life and performance of police, we cut a sorry figure before the comity of nations.

We may not be able to compete in other areas, but at least our national carrier PIA can take the lead and take to air gastronomic favourites of our Father of the Nation, corresponding to his Indian and European preferences.

Should the proposition be deemed viable, the scheme may be launched after proper research and not in haste, keeping in view the stature of the leader.

Imran Khan is admired by the educated idealist class of Pakistan. These are knowledgeable people, but unfortunately, never come out on the streets preferring to discuss most events from a laptop or drawing room.

Imran has made serious errors of judgements in the past like:
1. Supporting Musharraf.
2. Joining APDM and then being betrayed by Fazal and now Jamaat.
3. Should have involved APDM in the Universiry protest.
4. Failing to fill the vacuum created by the absence of BB and NS.

Being a loner, he remains Imran the Idealist. He single handily built a hospital and would no doubt continue to come up with more projects like the university etc. For social work he can build an efficient team because he pays them well, they will not follow him in the same stead when it comes to politics.

It is a fact that Imran the idealist has no street power or he would have not met the type of reception he got at the university, nor he can galvanise other parties to join his cause. It is also a fact, that he is the most honest, straight forward and charismatic politician around. So why this disconnect?

The disconnect lies in the mindset of Pakistani Politics. All major parties consider him a threat and so does the establishment. His high ideals prevent him to behave the way they do and therefore he remains alone. Whenever a chance comes, this mindset of 1935 will stab him.He now has enemies in all major political parties like PPP, MQM, JUI, JI and the establishment.

Perhaps those who criticise him for his lack of agenda have not gone through his web site.

Laddu,

(As an idolator my nukes are ready for you!! )

A better, cheaper and more eco-friendly option would be to set up convents all along the GT Road from Wagah to Panipat!!!

Regards

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anil #12 You write that you told Imran Khan "Use your strengths where you can make the difference, and bring the World Cup of female empowerment, education reforms to Pakistan."

I too had the opportunity to meet him once. Interestingly enough, I had exactly the same (unsolicited) advice to give him as you did, except I phrased it as a question (i.e. why not focus his energies on schools and hospitals rather than politics). His answer was that in order to get anything done in Pakistan you have to be politically strong - not a convincing answer, as Edhi's example as proved.

Having said that - I think he is right on in joining in this struggle. This struggle for democracy is not politics as usual. It is in the same league as education or health - i.e. working for a better future. That is why so many people who are least interested in Pakistanis politics (Human Rights Workers, Lawyers, Expats, and even non-Pakistanis like Jemima Khan in UK and the Americal legal community) have been inspired by the Chief Justice, the true Horatio at the bridge.

"