Why the American War on Terror is Failing Miserably

Re: # 197 Posted by tahmed32 on November 22, 2007 10:02:20 am

[the only credible means to shake loose the Musharraf dictatorship] is with another dictatorship of General Kiani, who is needed to clean up the infamous ISI and the institutional fundamentalism installed since ZAB days.

Do I hear General Kiani zindabad? Of course only from hamid mian.

Okay, never mind. I won't put a respected chowkie painted in a corner all by himself.

Just never wave a folded newspaper in my face again.

Cheers!

Add-on ... #199

... sorry I didn't read the rest of your post before replying ... so I guess you want to weasel out on a compromise by saying you actually support NS in some manner.

That's fine, but do answer what the Justice Sajjad case was about so that we can establish once and for all your grasp of facts.

Thanks.

#198 Posted by bulleya,

There was no change of statements. I think I explained my use of the term 'storming in #188 reproduced below:

Of-course it was stormed. All I'm saying is that it was 'hular baazi' and not a plan by NS. I said NS's explanation is most plausible because the course of events supports this explanation, and not because NS said that.

Now let's have the reply to #196 please.

What was the case Justice Sajjad was hearing against NS? You said it was 'corruption'. Was it?

Just a test of how much you know facts.

zeemax #147: "There was no 'Storming of SC'."
zeemax #188: "Of-course it was stormed."

..funny how people change statements when solid facts are provided to them......in less than an hour, the SC has gone from not being stormed to "of-course being stormed"...

as i said, i really don't like doing this to anyone on this site (other than to hamidm mian).....and i only do it to him, because i miss the days when he was the site clown and dread the day he fell in love with bush to the point of seeing no fault in him (much like you are with ns), and started trying to have intelligent conversation.....

...so pls quit while you are still behind......ns may still be the best choice out of the lot.....pti and imran khan - the group i have supported since day one - may actually have an alliance with pml(n), in which case i will support it also......also, nearly all the feudal and pirs of pml(n) have left it and have joined pml(q), thereby making pml(n) an urban party, which is what i support also......and shahbaz sharif is one hell of an administrator......now there is a guy i would support as pm.......and because while ns has corruption cases against him, unlike bb, they have yet to be proven in court........

so in this current group of useless bufoons, my support is for the pml(n) + pti + anp alliance......and i would support shahbaz for prime minister, with imran as president.......i still think urban businessmen are far better than army, maulvis and feudals.......

hoping for too much with the above, perhaps........but all said and done, let's call a spade a spade, and not try to hide the faults of nawaz........

zeemax: I think romair is quite correct in saying that the SC was stormed during NS time, by NS men. Denying obvious facts simply blinds you to reality. While NS may be part of the solution (along with BB) in the sense of providing the only credible means to shake loose the Musharraf dictatorship, that does not mean NS or BB are perfect and therefore the solution for the post-Musharraf period as well.

#195 Posted by bulleya,

Okay, let's take it one by one:

...and ns had the chief justice removed, when the later was hearing corruption cases against him .....plain and simple...

What was the case Justice Sajjad was hearing? Was it a corruption case or a contempt of court case over a press statement by NS?

We'll continue after your reply.

zeemax #: i don't enjoy doing this to anyone on this site (other than to hamidm mian), but there is a limit to having a love affair with ns....please take a look at what you are saying:

"Don't believe what Najam Sethi says....As for Sajjad Shah, same as above...."

...so we should not look at what sethi and sajjad are saying about what happened to them.....who else would know what happened to them, any better.....ns stormed sethi's house, when he highlighted sharif's corruption on bbc, and ns had the chief justice removed, when the later was hearing corruption cases against him .....plain and simple...

"NS's explanation is most plausible because the course of events supports this explanation,..."

the guy who led the storming, khwaja saad; do talk to him....there is a video of the court being stormed!.......and the people storming it, where prosecuted by the supreme court and punished....the course of events was that nawaz sharif's trial was delayed, during which time he got rid of the chief justice.......until musharraf got rid of him......

the corruption cases i mentioned have been reopened.....please try to follow the events......the guy had his own personal judge, for heaven's sake.....i am not saying it, his own mpa, ayaz amir is........and there is a recorded conversation of the judge supporting this......

p.s........i am still waiting for you to identify the following:

1. when was najam sethi the national security advisor, and does such a position even exist in pakistan
2. where in the text of sethi's speech did he say that pakistan is a, "failed state"....he had made the exact same speech in national defence college in pakistan
3. is it a crime for a pakistani to go to india and say that pakistan is a failed state?...please quote the law under which it is a crime....

#192 Posted by nasah,

Did you hear his quote from the Adiala Jail when asked how he was being treated?

He said "They're treating me fine just as they're supposed to ... just as the other prisoners".

Aitezaz is a rare breed of men.

#168 Posted by HP

We saw Nawaz standing up to the army in 1999 and I feel that the next time the army may have to kill the PM in the PM house to get the power again. They may have to kill the Pakistani intelligentsia in the stadiums to maintain the forcible acquisition of power.

Well said HP. I see you're out of your peon of the west (moniker courtesy masadi) mode, or getting there fast.

RELEASE AITZAZ AHSAN
RELEASE AITZAZ AHSAN

RELEASE AITZAZ AHSAN
RELEASE AITZAZ AHSAN

Re: # 159 Posted by hamidm2 on November 21, 2007 12:28:44 pm

[....... it is nice to know that zeemax agrees with me, arjun and tahmed that you are the ultimate idiot ........]

except for tahmed, you are, once again, on the wrong side of the chowk. Although, for the most part, I do like zeemax's posts when he remains authentic.

#187 Posted by bulleya,

LoL:

.. murder case against ss ordering the police to kill five men. The men were gunned down in Lahore in 1998"

Is that about corruption?

It's about extra-judicial killing; and Shahbaz Sharif came back to face the court over charges but musharraf deported him back despite a high-court judgement and despite outstanding arrest warrants against him.

.. cases related to Hudebia paper Mills, Itefaq Foundry and Riawind real estate

I see you've had to work hard googling. Hudaybia Paper Mills and Ittefaq Foundary were handed over (alongwith many other assets) by NS after the coup in 1999 as part of his settlement with musharraf. This case is about 'valuation' of the mills, and not about any corruption.

The Raiwind case is simply an enquiry into the source of funds and not a corruption charge. NS too came back to face both the above on Sept 10 and you know what happened.

Give up bulleya. You've just proven yourself to be a simpleton who knows nothing.

Sorry, but it's the truth.

Justice Qayyum and Nawas Sharif - Nawaz's special judge:
--------------------------------------------------------

Ayaz amir is one of the loyal members of pml(n) i.e. nawaz sharif's party...he is also a well know journalist.......one of the small % of guys who did not dump nawaz sharif to join pml (q).....following is what he wrote about nawaz sharif and a justice who was on nawaz sharif's team......this justice had his conversation recorded, when he was talking about nawaz sharif's cases:

"WHAT the publication of the Hamoodur Rahman Report did for the army, the Justice Qayyum tapes as revealed by the Sunday Times have done for the higher judiciary......this is the value of the Qayyum tapes. The light they cast throws in sharp relief the judiciary's feet of clay.

....His Lordship Justice Malik Qayyum addressing Khalid Anwer, Nawaz Sharif's then lord chancellor, as "sir" and declaring himself to be his servant (khadim).

...Need we be surprised by the audacity of the interference and the readiness of Justice Qayyum to oblige his interlocutors?

.....Civilian rulers have treated the judiciary no better, each one of them seeking pliant judges. Judges too have demeaned themselves by seeking small favours.

With regard to Justice Qayyum, moreover, these subtle considerations in any event do not apply. In the sacred precincts of the Lahore High Court he has enjoyed a special standing because of his identification with the personal problems of the Sharif dynasty. Anything affecting the family's interests has come to him for adjudication, almost as if he alone possessed the requisite delicacy to handle these matters. The division of the family's assets between its contending factions, cases involving the family's huge bank loans, and even the banking loans of Nawaz Sharif's principal errand boy, Saifur Rehman, were all attracted, as if by a powerful magnet, to Justice Qayyum's court and no other.

This no doubt was the preferred style of the Sharifs, not only fashioning a personalized administration, with loyalists at key positions, but also arranging for a personalized form of justice. When their name was involved in the cooperatives' scandal of 1991, the Supreme Court judge selected to hold a judicial inquiry into the affair was Justice Lone who exonerated the Sharifs of any wrongdoing. Later, during Nawaz Sharif's second stint as prime minister, Lone became a PML senator.

Justice Qayyum (whose brother, incidentally, was a PML MNA) is a throwback to those interesting times. Small wonder if it was he who was chosen to be Benazir Bhutto's and Asif Zardari's principal nemesis. All the important cases against them were heard by him. To Justice Qayyum also belongs the triumph of reducing Benazir Bhutto to tears in open court, so zealous was he in the pursuit of justice. All this forms the backdrop to the tapes revealed by the Sunday Times.

Justice Qayyum had been hand-picked to hear the cases against Benazir Bhutto because, as the contents of the tapes make clear, he was considered a loyalist who could be counted upon to do what was expected of him. And yet Nawaz Sharif not only kept the pressure on Justice Qayyum through Khalid Anwer and Saifur Rehman. He also ordered all of Justice Qayyum's telephones to be bugged, probably just to make sure that his zeal did not flag.


http://www.dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/20010209.htm

is this the same Qayyum who is now the attorney general of pakistan on musharraf's team, hounding nawaz sharif.....if so, what a turn around....

#185 Posted by bulleya,

Yaar bulleya, do you really believe what everyone says? Or you read in the newspapers? I mean ... you should have been above that. Did you believe there were WMDs in Iraq when everyone was saying there were? I didn't. Not for a single moment. Because I believe none of what I hear and only half of what I see.

You say:

....the fact is that the supreme court of pakistan was physically stormed by the supporters of nawaz sharif, in an organized fashion.....do you agree or disagree.....

Of-course it was stormed. All I'm saying is that it was 'hular baazi' and not a plan by NS. I said NS's explanation is most plausible because the course of events supports this explanation, and not because NS said that.

zeemax #: "I notice you haven't come up with any corruption cases against NS.....merely organised disinformation and character assassination."

....there is a long list of cases against nawaz sharif and shahbaz sharif.....here are two:

- murder case against ss ordering the police to kill five men. The men were gunned down in Lahore in 1998"

- cases related to Hudebia paper Mills, Itefaq Foundry and Riawind real estate

.......these cases are still officially open.......which is why i stated, "not to mention the fact that nawaz has a long list of corruption cases against him...."