Pakistani Judges - Read This Lawyer’s Oath

AS writes "Quaid-e-Azam is the ideal of Imran Khan, Bhutto and all Pakistani leaders..."

Because they are not/were not as politically mature as I am, in time IK will learn about the shenanigans of the MAJ, as Bhutto did towards the end of his life, read his books from which I quoted here. Regarding my Master's it was not a failed one it was a 4.0/4.0 GPA, and doing odd jobs and not relying on your parent's wealth to get an education is something to be proud of and not ashamed of...though I was on 100% tuition waiver and teaching assistantship.....and finally, I still give a damn about your fake sensibilities...

Aisha, well written.

Musharraf and Jinnah, there is no comparison. It is chalk and cheese. Jinnah believed in institions, judicary, media, legislature, etc.

Musharraf is a unprincipled ,half baked intellect from NDC. He is corrupt and his core commanders are corrupt. They belive in only one thing, the army. The are undoing Jinnah's achievements.

After what happened to Islamist in early years of Pakistan, nobody has any choice but to be coattails of that pork eating, drinker who created a country in the name of Islam.
The only vice he did not have was womanizing. We need to fulfill that gap to complete the picture of Pakistan in the name of Islam.

Re: # 17

"Because they are not/were not as politically mature as I am"

apnay muun mian mitoo, translated into English...u r full of schit....ofcoourse, u knew that didnt u....

majumdar

dude, masadi does have a point - or couple of them... For one: J-man(pubh)'s action indeed divided the muslim "power" in the subcontinent ... second, his actions helped preserve the feudal entities in pakiland...

right?

rf

J-man(pubh) definitely used islam for his political purpose - you can't deny that... I mean - one of his slogans was "Islam is in danger", wasn't it?...

#17 Posted by masadi
“AS writes "Quaid-e-Azam is the ideal of Imran Khan, Bhutto and all Pakistani leaders..."

Because they are not/were not as politically mature as I am,”
#20 Posted by rf786
apnay muun mian mitoo, translated into English...u r full of schit....ofcoourse, u knew that didnt u....”

Asadi, I wouldn’t be so sure about Bhutto. He was a shrewd politicians, well educated and had a complete grip on Pakistani politics of that time. Barring some Baloch leaders such as Bizenjo, Bugti and Mengal and to some extent Wali Khan, no body could have possibly matched Bhutto in his read of the political situation in Pakistan. He also was the most opportunistic. While the Baloch leaders suffered because of their knowledge and honesty, Bhutto took full advantage of any opportunity presented to him. He certainly had a better sense of history and knew exactly how the Pak army would behave.

I think you are right about Imran Khan. He will have to learn a lot. Nawaz started out as political naïve as Imran Khan. Nawaz picked it up and now I think IK will pick up the pieces and would learn exactly where and what the disconnect is in Pakistani politics.

Rf786,
You need to counter what Masadi says with some facts on the ground. I am not sure why Asadai needs to use the language he uses but he does make better points than many and I think his grip on Pakistani politics is better than the Imran of today. In future, IK will possible get a better hang because he is in the thick of the things and Masadi is just commenting from the sidelines.

MAJ never said that Islam Khatray main hai that is a complete bull. However, I think it would be great to see any discussion on how MAJ would have behaved if he had held on to the power for another eight to ten years. I think it would be a good discussion.

While MAJ was certainly for the rule of law and a constitutionalist, we still don’t know whether he favored a system where he, as the Governor General, would have consented to fewer powers. As long as he was the GG, The Prime Minister was nothing more than a show piece or the shortcut aziz under Mushy.

Also - what about "Pakistan ka matlab kya? La hila Ilallah-hilla" ?... wasn't that one of the jinnah and his party's rallying cry?...

Latest on a top Paki mullah getting exposed by Ali Sina

http://www.faithfreedom.org/debates/ajmalqadri.htm

Maulana Ajmal Qadri is a Senior religious scholar of the Deobandi school of Pakistan and the president of Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (The Society of Islamic Scholars). The Maulana is regarded as a pir (saint) by his followers and is one of the most influential clerics of Pakistan.

In 1999 Maulana Qadri issued a Fatwa saying lawmakers opposed to the Shariat Bill deserve to be killed.

He has also stated: "In our madrassas, we teach the Koranic jihad, This refuses to admit the supremacy of anyone, or any power, but Allah. We believe that the Muslim way is the supreme way, that the Islamic principle is best and that what the rest of the world does is not up to the mark."

Laddu.
Be fair to Maulana Qadri and don't be harsh on him. He is the only Maulana who proposes recognittion of Israel.

Aisha, good piece! It is also a courageous piece under the present (unfortunate) circumstances.

Mohar,

(J-man(pubh)'s action indeed divided the muslim "power" in the subcontinent ...)

The kind of power that you and Masadi sahib are referring to are purely of the negative kind, the power to veto everything that the majority suggests irrespective of whether they are good or bad. Had India not been divided the 2/3rd Hindu majority and 1/3rd Muslim majority would both have been disempowered and quarreling on every thing. And we would have got nowhere. Yes Hindu majority India and Muslim dominated screwed up big time but that was not because of MAJ (pbuh) or the Partition but because the two successor entities took wrong turns- India’s turn towards Nehruvian Stalinism, Pakistan’s turn towards authoritarianism and later militant Islam.

(second, his actions helped preserve the feudal entities in pakiland... )

Yes, but that was not really his fault. The West Pak society was still very primitive and backward and a proper middle class had not developed there except among the Mohajir minority. Indeed it was the diff level of political development among Bong and non-Bong Muslims which caused the breakup in 1971. In W Pak’s case the natural backwardness was exacerbated by the Indo-Pak conflict and US meddling (no doubt without participation by elites within Pak) and which has resulted in arrested development there.

Regards

Somehow masadi has led the discussion to a tangent. He seems to have a very deep insight into the global order framed at Bretton Woods and tends to see everything through that window.( I took pains to browse his essays)

Granted he represents that anti colonial school that sees the partition as a conspiracy by the west to create buffers against USSR and China and that MAJ was a mere instruement. He could have argued his point in a more logical manner while avoiding mud slinging.

The idea of Pakistan was not an instant idea, nor was Muslim league created by MAJ. He was a much needed leader who came up at the right time. Unfortunately he was let down by his people.

Masadi sahib,

(The Ata Turk was a fool who ensured perpetual slavery of his people to the West)

Had Kemal not been around, Turkey would have been dismembered by the Allies and large parts of what is Turkey today would have been handed over to the Kurds, Armenians and Greeks and Turks cleaned out from there. Whatever turkey may be today is better off than what it wud have been without Kemal.

(Regarding dictatorship, when the MAJ installed himself as GG of Pakistan, King of a country for all intents and purposes, that was no democracy in action.)

To the best of my knowledge MAJ (pbuh) did not use military force to put himself in power. He became GG becuase ML was recognised as the sole spokesparty of Muslims (and you cant blame the Brits for that given ML's sweep among the Muslim electorate) and MAJ was ML's undisputed leader- a position he did not seize by use of arms but becuase of his honesty and force of personality.

Regards

HP writes "Asadi, I wouldn’t be so sure about Bhutto. He was a shrewd politicians..."

Granted Bhutto was a smart man and matured as a politician but his ideas did change, as documented in his books over time, and I wouldn't take the ideas in his last book written from the death cell as some kind of manipulation, even though you can be given the benefit of the doubt that the earlier ones were "shrewd" or maybe manipulative.

The Church of MAJ has great control over the minds of the people, and especially mainstream politicians, be it due to use-value for legitimation. His ideas, bhuttos about the Pakistan idea and MAJ relative to that idea, where he was willing to consider the possibility of it being a "mistake", does emerge in his last books, whereas it was absent in his earlier ones.

Finally, Majumdar needs to be reminded that using historical hypotheticals is no evidence as justification of what actually happened with the Turks, losing their identity and having a new one imposed overnight based on foreign ideals meant that even though they kept the geography they lost the soul of Turkey thanks to the Ata Turk, and whether they would have lost the geography is also questionable

To me it looks like that Yasser used AS's ID to post 'some' of the responses here.