Pakistani Judges - Read This Lawyer’s Oath

VRV, in case you don't know, Aisha Sarwari is quite capable of posting her own responses!

ZK,

This I think is not by AS but Yasser (he even used her ID to opne threads on UP).

'#15 Posted by Aisha_Sarwari on November 19, 2007 7:45:12 am
Dear majumdar,

Your post is wasted on the internet freak here masadi who probably had to do odd jobs to get his failed masters thesis publish in a binder.

Quaid-e-Azam is the ideal of Imran Khan, Bhutto and all Pakistani leaders, I am wondering why Musharraf still continues to aspire to him as if he has no shame. '

('freak' is the common word used by Yasser)

Aisha is becoming like Hindu(whome she openly despises)obedient wife

A wife, obedient to her husband, renowned, light-footed, eloquent in speech, sympathetic to the patients, attains to happiness when she lives peacefully with her husband, and nicely cooks the food highly efficacious, and grown through rain, conducive to our physical growth, brought daily in use, and relished by our ancestors. Yajur Veda Chapter XXXIII, Verse 59

"Who bothers for judiciary, lawyers and Imran Khan. For these corrupt elites, life goes on as usual and that is what matters."Judiciary cannot be allowed to do everything then they can and wil sell the country legally

"The only vice he did not have was womanizing.."

But he (MAJ)did have his eyes on minor 16 year old Riti with his middle age disparatage aging eyes

The thrilling judgment by the three 'deposed' judges headed by Justice Bhagwan Das -- as to why this NA could not elect the same man twice as president because the dying NA has no right to bind the coming NA with its illegal decision -- is a classic piece of judicial opinion that will live in immortality -- the judgment in its reasoning, logic and elucidation of finer points of its legal arguments what is constitutional and what is pure balderdash -- should be a part of the future curriculum in every law school of the subcontinent and of the world.

Every Pakistani poster who does not believe, the army dictators are forever -- should read the Justice Rana Bhagwan Das et al's judgment on Musharraf.

Constitutionalist Pakistan zindabad. The original Constitutionalist Supreme Court of Pakistan Zindabad. Down with the current Kangaroo Court of Musharraf's puppets.

Shah2
Jinnah may had affair while visiting his friend. But it was Riti who still insisted on marriage after being kept away for one year. And their marriage was not very successful either.
Still we need a real one, not like Jinnah.

nasah #37 Well said.

Why can't we stop calling Bhutto a shrewd politician? He is one of the biggest villains of Pakistan. Well...not that we have had any heroes....which is not a strange phonomenon considering the producer/director, Mr Jinnah was a villain himself.

Another thing, please leave the supposed writer of this tragedy - Iqbal out of this. His script has been adulterated by each and everyone!

Re: # 26

I think these paras from Ali Sina sums up the thoughts of an present day idolator against an Islamist mullah from Pakistan.


"Dear Maulana:

I am not insulting Muhammad. I am laying charges against him. If I say Muhammad was a thief, a mass murderer or a rapist, I am proving my claim using the Hadith and Sira as exhibits. It is up to you to disprove these charges.

As for respecting beleifs, who said beliefs have to be respected? Why should anyone respect a religion that says the unbelievers are filthy (najis) crucify them and chop their fingertips because they are the enemies of God and they will be fuel for hell? This is an insult to me, because I am a disbeliever. Why should I respect an insult against my self?
We have to respect people and their rights to believe in anything they choose but not what they believe. I must respect your right to believe in absurdities but this does not mean I must respect absurdities.

We hear a lot that we must respect people's beliefs. That is baloney. We do not have to respect any belief, not even our own. We must always question beliefs. This is the only way humans can progress. If we respect beliefs, don't question them and don't challenge them how are we going to get rid of false beliefs?

Furthermore do Muslims respect the religion of others? Why is it that they insult the Jews, the Christians and even kill the Bahais, the Sikhs, the Ahmadis or the Hindus wherever they are the majority and have the upper hand? Forget what Muslims do. Did Muhammad respect the belief of the people? Why he rammed into Ka’ba and destroyed the temple of the people of Mecca? Wasn’t this a sacrilege of their faith? He could start his own mosque elsewhere, why did he have to assault and insult the deities of the people? He set the example for other Muslims to follow and as the result his followers are as intolerant as he was. They constantly fight with each other, call one another heretics and kill one another. Do you know that more Muslims have been killed in the hands of fellow Muslims in sectarian fights than they have been killed in wars by non-Muslims? This killing is still going on.

When you ask others to respect your faith, please take a closer look at how you respect the faiths of others. Muslims enjoy a lot more freedom and rights in non-Muslim countries than they grant other religions in Islamic countries."

Laddu:
It is not to respect or disrespect, but to put things in proper perspective. Naming names is easy, but a little history is essential. For example why are people supporting Chief Justice and not Musharraf on this forum. For you the answer is easy because you live in a particular time period.
When Mohammah PBUH proclaimed his message, Arab was in extreme ignorance and superstition. All the vices were considered virtue. When Mohammad PBUH started his message sane and pious people accepted it, particularly the oppressed one. They were tortured, killed and politically and economically isolated. To the point that they had to emigrate to Ethiopia to save their lives. There is a very eloquent speech by Jafar Tayyar in the king's Negus court, where he mentioned all the vices Arabs were in and how Mohammad's message changed their life for good. The Arabs were idolators and most of the struggle against idolators were for two things. GOD is one and do good vices are bad and forbid evil. In those 13 years of struggle Muslims were persecuted and Arabs were persecutors. I am not aware of any idolator death at the hands of Muslim in those 13 years. Then Muslim finally emigrated to Medina and formed their own Government. Provoked or unprovoked, there were at least three full fledged war imposed on Muslims. Arabs from Mecca came to Medina to fight Muslims and not the other way round. At last there was truce. That truce was broken by Meccans idolators. When Muslims marched towards Mecca, they captured it with total loss of 13 people. There was general amnesty for all. You don't expect a person who has struggled and suffered all his life for ONE GOD and against multiple gods (which is the definition of idolators) to let worship of multiple Gods to happen, once he is successful.
There are many versions of history on Mohammed PBUH. Reading from multiple sources from most enemy to most friendly to neutral probably will bring a true picture of him.
It is a matter of judgement. Considering his stories, the most important thing is extreme human quality, extreme wise and tolerant. He was literally worshipped and loved. The son of one of his detractors has asked multiple times to kill his own father as he would name names to Prophet PBUH. But prophet PBUH not only did not allow it, but lead the funeral prayer when he died. The most prominent quality of prophet PBUH was his humanistic qualities. The mission he brought, he completed and expanded it in his own life time in a small period of 23 years. If you bring specific instances we can discuss. One thing is JUSTICE to the extreme. Apart from war and war is war, he did not took or ordered a single life to be perished except within the LAW and as law allowed. If there was no law, the law was created for him by GOD Himself for example for more than four wives.
I am not aware of taking life of Muslim, non Muslim, idolator, or Jewish or christian outside the LAW. War is off course an exception. But war is war and not like anybody goes and kills another person in the name of Islam whatever he or she may have.
Anyway if you have sspecific instances, we can discuss.

#42 Posted by krashid1961

you wrote all that to convince Laddu? All your effort is wasted. Before you there was another prophet supporter, Clifton bridge to nowheher and he/she tried to the same thing.

Why are you islamist so naive or is the raiwind influence that makes you think you can convert people by writing useless stuff?

HP:
Who told you I am Islamist?
Do you think only a islamist can appreciate the qualities of Prophet PBUH.
Do you think I am here to convert Laddu or any other to what?
Anyway, what is a Islamist? I am not aware of its definition, so I cannot tell you whether I am Islamist or not?

"Do you think only a islamist can appreciate the qualities of Prophet PBUH."

Yes....and What is this about the qualities. What qualities he had that were different from many other reformers or politicians. What is with you guys that makes you think he was somehow superior! You guys are actually the real Buttparast or idolator! Laddu clearly cannot recognize the similarities!

krashid1961, instead of falling in the trap set by the Ali Senile types, who was thoroughly and completely outwitted because he is a deceptive/compulsive liar, you need to evaluate the claims of his "objectivity".

He writes for example in the long copy paste by laddu (on whom every thought is wasted as HP is suggesting, because he is a mindless bigot) "I am proving my claim using the Hadith and Sira as exhibits. It is up to you to disprove these charges.

Now, would documents like the "hadith" and "sira", that are removed hundreds of years from the events and are based on third grade secondary data, stand in any court of law (other than the Musharraf constituted court) in any country that values justice, anywhere? Of course they would not stand, period.

The greatest quality of the messenger was the delivery of a clear message that valued truth and justice regardless of personal claims of greatness or the loss of status suffered as a result. Those qualities are found in non prophets as well, it is upto Allah to decide which one of us/them is "best in deed"- so even though the Mullah might proclaim "khair e khalqehee" (going completely against the Quran), nobody has been given authority to proclaim thus. Therefore we should not act as idolators, as HP has correctly observed, and proclaim truth and fact rather than "hadith and sira".

Re: # 46

Masadi Saheb,

As a Quranist I would admit to the 'superiority' of your Islam.

And ofcouse by contextualizing the violent versese of Medina revelations your humanism is far superior.

But , unfortunately no Pakistani mullah would accept your view. Hadiths provide the context to interpretation of Quran and there is a huge tradition of it that supports this view- you are fighting a lost battle- the Islam of Quran without Hadiths means nothing to present day muslims.

So, best of luck in your trying to convince the rest of the ummah regarding your "Islam"!!

Re: # 42
" The Arabs were idolators and most of the struggle against idolators were for two things. GOD is one and do good vices are bad and forbid evil. In those 13 years of struggle Muslims were persecuted and Arabs were persecutors. I am not aware of any idolator death at the hands of Muslim in those 13 years. Then Muslim finally emigrated to Medina and formed their own Government. Provoked or unprovoked, there were at least three full fledged war imposed on Muslims. Arabs from Mecca came to Medina to fight Muslims and not the other way round. At last there was truce. That truce was broken by Meccans idolators. When Muslims marched towards Mecca, they captured it with total loss of 13 people. There was general amnesty for all. You don't expect a person who has struggled and suffered all his life for ONE GOD and against multiple gods (which is the definition of idolators) to let worship of multiple Gods to happen, once he is successful. "

K Saheb ji,

Actually this is just plain old mullah propaganda regarding idolators being morally 'inferior' . The pagans of Mecca were great and virtous people and it was Mo who was going around misusing their hospitality.
You say that if some one believes in "one god" (whatever that means) then "you do not expect him" to tolerate other gods!! It is like saying if I believe in goblins then one should expect me to kill others who believe in fairies.
There is NO logical connection between some one believing in one god and that person killing others who believe in many deities.
The two can exist peacefully and that is what Ali sina was saying to the mullahs. Despite difference in beliefs people can exist together pecefully even as good neighbours. This violent jump from believing in one god to being violent towards others is the cause of muslim miseries. It is the basis of jinnah's TNT. It is the basis of PAkistan. It is going to be the reason why Pakistan is going to go down as a failed state in modern times.
If Pakistan has to exist then it has to reject Islam of mullahs and take to some Islam of - say Masadi . Heck , even the Islam ans Sunnat of Hamid m that involves celebrating Basant and hugging each other during id only would be a good idea!!