Kolkata on Fire

#63 Posted by einsteinwallah on November 25, 2007 10:06:21 am
Muslims should not be paid back in Indian coins but American dollars. They are already getting paid back. In USD
.............................

What kind of gibberish is that

"When India was divided many Hindus stayed back in East Pakistan"

So did muslims of India.

We are sorry for what Hindu went through in East Pakistan ,& west pakistan

Division of Bengal was not with the consensus of Bengali muslims.Significant number of them Hmayun Kabir, Mohsin of Hoogly Shah nawaz khan,A Ghani Khan Chowdhry ..& dist Muslim significant muslim populatin Murshidabad Nadia Burdwan as well many secular muslims undid bengali partition of bengal in 1930 you prolly too ignorant to know bengal partition has been on again off again event.NOT like west pakistan with you south Indians and BJP s opsessed with.
Do you know how to sing JanaGana Mana ????or if you are hindi walla why dont you sing Sare Jahan Se Acha.
Personaly i have no objection to any national anthem Bande Matram included.For convenience sake you are non bengalis of calcutta and bengals are wrapping youself in national flaglike like a scoundrel being lazy u r self.

Before criticizing any partiticular community speake for your self
is your only contribution is to bring down other community or you can any thing positive about YOURSELF

Todi a non bengali is 100% responsible from cantacting sauravs brother for access to i.G. spending lakhs of his 200 Crores to let it be known to dozen of criminal miscreants with lure of money to do the 'Necessary'

You know the actually hit man those who act so 0r drive one to voluntary klll oneself is held 'less' culpable than his financier

"but will protest if spoken to in Hindi"

Do the Tamils listen answer or speake hindi in tamil nadu i did not not find so.there more non bengali speaking in Calcutta gujrati punjabi south indians rajasthani marwari etc etc than non tamil speaking in tamil nadu.No one self immolate in bngal against hindi ,In fact all bengali these days specially outside bengal i know are fluent in Hindi which south indians are not......Only way they communicate with non tamils is thru english.Tamils hate hindi speaking majority of whome are Upites Bihar and adjoining more than 5 staes like jharkand m.p. chatisgarh ,arunachal pradesh himachal pradesh.Yes Bengalis are parochial so is Shev Sena,DmK TDP Hindi belt in the form of Bihar Up Gujjurat Delhi .Do you think all indians are bhai bhai one big family singing kumbaia.And above all every body nonbengalis in Calcutta is crying foul not because of language but that interferes with there money making by locals

Einsteinwallah, I don't think anyone knows yet who killed Rizwan. The CBI says it looks like a suicide, but I don't think so.
I also think that for the last few elections, the left has won by non-democratic means, so the voters can't be blamed.

nb:

Cops know because they killed Rizwanur.

My questions about distinguishing were rhetorical. Because stuka said Bengali Muslims are "who are defacto Bangladeshis" should be "kicked in their arse".

Most Bengalis are just too full of themselves. They will feel buddy buddy with French and Chinese but will protest if spoken to in Hindi. They think that they are intellectually superior to rest of India. Bengalis never really forgave move of India's capital from Calcutta to Dilli. They hate rest of India so bad that they do not even think rationally. They think of all non-bengalis as low-caste.

Most communities will think of their self-interest first. But not Bengalis. They think of what other lowly non-bengalis are doing and then do something different just to set themselves apart. Never mind what they do will ultimately harm their interests.

They will bash Modi. But are they any different from Modi? So hypothetically let us assume you want to kick Bengali Muslims' arse, how do you do it? Ask a Bong Muslim males to lower his pants so that we can see if there is circumcision or not? Or ask him to sing Vande Mataram? I would not be surprised if non-muslim Bengalis will also refuse to sing Vande Mataram. Their heads are so screwed up that in their desire to set themselves apart they will do that. So...

So how do we distinguish between Patriotic Bengalis and non-Patriotic Bengalis? By asking them to join army may be. And deploying them at no men's land near Bangladesh border and asking them to shoot at sight of any human coming from other side.

When India was divided many Hindus stayed back in East Pakistan thinking that as long as Gandhiji was alive and his ideology was respected Muslims would not kill Hindus. When Gandhiji was assassinated many Bengalis had to flee. Many of these people are still alive or their children are alive. So why Bengalis are electing election after election a communist government? The answer is: Bengalis think they have to elect a party which rest of India does not even spit on. Never mind it harms them. There aint no marxist reasons. Marxism is hardly understood by those who claim they understand it. It is plain and simple naak-oonchu pompous behaviour of Bengalis who think that they are intellectually superior than other Indians. I have to agree with #1 Posted by mohar11. Bengalis are intellectually lazy. Contrary to the self-image Bengalis have of themselves. To maintain that self-image they can do violence. Physically they may of may not lazy. When provoked by a contrary opinion they will come out on street and do a frightening tandav nritya. In all that there will be no thinking.

Eisnsteinwallah, how come you know who killed Rizwan and the cops don't??
For someone who has spent years in Calcutta-as it was known then-you should know there are many differences between East and West Bengalis. Between Bengali Hindus and Muslims? You'll just have to ask.

Muslims should not be paid back in Indian coins but American dollars. They are already getting paid back. In USD.

How do we distinguish between migrant Muslims from Bangladesh from local variety? For that matter how do we distinguish between Muslim Bengalis and non-Muslim Bengalis?

Rizwan was killed by a bengali and not by a marwari. Proves my point. These people are violent. Violence breeds violence.

Those who claim to undrestand abstruse and obtuse marx theories cannot distinguish between tenant and owner. Okay who wants to believe that?

sou bat ki ek bat. these people are violent and unpatriotic.

Bengalis are violent and unpatriotic people.

my dear Torsa Ghosal -- your article is well written but too diffuse -- going in too many directions at the same time -- are you mad at the minority forum fundos, or on strikes, bandhs and road congeting traffic-blocking processions. Calcutta is one of the most crowded, dirtiest, smelliest, poorest most anarchist cities of the entire subcontinent -- so what else is new.

I wish you had stayed a little more with Tasleema Nasreen's plight in the land of the free and the abode of the freedom of expression.

The leftists have betrayed her -- the congressites are going to do another shah-bano on her as well -- India has gone to dogs whether in Calcutta or in Delhi.

They should be ashamed of themselves -- bouncing her like a soccer ball from Calcutta to Delhi -- Delhi to Jaipur -- of all the places Jaipur! -- and from Jaipur back to Delhi. what has happened to India -- in that goddam country there is no place for an iconoclast -- everybody has to be either a goddam Hindu Hindutva or a Muslim jihadi bastard to be able to live in that godforsaken country -- where the rest of the people are dreaming of the hydrogen bombs while defecating near the railway lines.

Don't humiliate a wrtier like Tasleema Nasreen for having the guts to scrape the bottom of Muslim mental, social, cultural, educational, and political backwardness. Let her live in India in peace and with dignity -- don't take away her pen -- let her write whatever she wants to say about her own crummy community -- and hang the forum fundos by the nearest lamp post -- of course with due process of law -- if any of them criminals harm the Muslim Joan of Ark in anyway.

12 head, anyone but you can see I am not saying it was a good thing, merely pointing out why it happened, and I keep saying it should never have happened, and the Todis should be punished.

Re: # 53
Jasvinder, arshad manji, hirsa ali, have all one thing in common they’ve seen how the white girls in the west, live and behave, boyfriends, drinking, partying etc. they blame their families, religion, culture for denying them these pleasures. They then go on to write a book denouncing their families, religion etc, their books become bestsellers and they are laughing all the way to the bank, I wonder who is taking who for the ride here.

#53
I know money can buy lot of things including love ,marraige ,besids material.You can blame 90% of worlds problem on Poverty .Its a commonest denominator least controversial.

did the boy lie he was rich .Did she not frequented his 'HUT' and new fully well .
Question is of Parental acceptence
does not law give an adult to marry rich or poor as long as the parties agree to it .
For you it may be wealth for other it is religion and for other it is love. Atleast this determing factor is common in most marriages.

#49
"looks like indian muslims are slowly but surely plugging into international jihad ideology..'.


Besharm ..from Hashimpura to Gujjuriot qatal bhi karo and blame the minority 0f 10% ..Its MORE likely BJP does this as set up to massacre muslims than muslims of india insane mind would take up 90% nonm muslims wrath

No, it has nothing at all to do with Rizwan...there has been a public outcry in Calcutta about his death, and so there should, but among Hindus as well as Muslims. As I have said on UP, this could have happened to a poor Hindu boy (don't you watch Hindi films?) but not to a rich Muslim boy who would have had his own clout.

I thought one of the reasons for disturbance in kolkata is the mysterious death of rizwan a muslim guy who married a hindu woman. My point is this problem is not limited to India it happens even in the UK amongst Sikhs and muslims but rarely hindus.

Yes, aslam, I have read Jasvinder's book. Not very interesting, but upsetting. Your point is? What does this or Ruksana Naz have to do with the topic at hand?

Jasvinder Sanghera

Jasvinder began by saying that she always took every opportunity to speak before an audience on this issue as in her opinion she represented the survivors of forced marriages.

Jasvinder told the audience that she was now 42 years of age but was only 14 years when she first learnt of her parent's intentions to marry her off. She had come back from school and was presented with a picture of the man she was to marry. Of course, she had seen her sisters be married off but suddenly, it was happening to her. By the time she was 15, the pressure – mostly psychological – had increased. When she stood her ground, she was locked in her room and denied any freedom of movement.

Finally, she ran away to Newcastle as no wasn't an option – that to her, signified it was a forced marriage. She further stated that it had not been her intention to run away but merely to prove the point that she did not want to get married.
However, the consequences of her actions soon became clear when she finally plucked up the courage to ring her mother after a few weeks of leaving home. She proceeded to read from two chapters of her book Shame (her story about escaping from being made to marry a man against her wishes and the reaction of her family). Her mother had shouted: Thanks to you I can't walk the streets of Derby any more; I can't go the gurdwara (i.e. the Sikh temple) because people are talking. People spit at me.

After a pause, her mother continued: You'll get what you deserve for ruining your family. You'll see. In a few months time you and your chamar (i.e. lower caste) boyfriend will be rolling around in a gutter which is no more than you deserve. You will amount to nothing, nothing, do you hear me? I hope you give birth to a daughter who does to you what you have done to me, then you'll know what it feels like to raise a prostitute. Jasvinder tried to defend herself, only to hear: Live your life then, and good luck to you. In our eyes you're dead.

Jasvinder then read a passage detailing a telephone conservation between her mother and herself about her older sister Robina – who had secretly kept in touch with her, despite disownment by the family.

What's happened?
She said, It's Robina….She died….She's dead.'
My brain refused to process this. No….Robina was my living, breathing, vibrant elder sister; she was part of me…We'd shared a bed, we'd walked to school together, she bought me clothes for my wedding, I'd seen her just a week ago. 'What do you mean, dead? How has she died, Mum?' The word came out mechanically. I was on autopilot.
There was a pause. I thought I heard a sob. 'She committed suicide. She set herself on fire and died in hospital'.
The world seemed to stop.
My legs went weak and I felt completely hollow. Numb with shock, I stood there listening to this weird, sub-human noise. Then I realised it was howling, and it was coming out of me. I steadied myself up against the wall and said, 'Mum, I'm coming to Derby, Right now'.
'No.' she said it really loudly. 'Don't come to Derby. Don't come here; don't show your face here. You'll just make things worse.'
'Mum. Robina is dead. Are you not going to let me come to the house?'
'No. You will make it worse.' She hesitated. 'You can come when it's dark and nobody is here.'
I said, 'Mum, please….'
'No. I'm telling you, you'll make it worse.'

Jasvinder closed her book and turned to the audience: That's what you get when you fight for your rights. You're seen as the perpetrator, not the victim. Jasvinder told the audience that suicide amongst 16-24 year old Asian women was 2-3 times higher than the national average. Forced marriage was a real issue. Her organisation, Karma Nirvana, dealt with 7 forced marriages cases a week (of both men and women). She implored the audience that one should Never make a woman believe forced marriage is alright. Her family had made her believe that to go against her family, she had shamed them.

She observed that the Home Office's Forced Marriage Unit dealt with 250 cases a year, 50% of which concerned minors. She lambasted the political correctness that had allowed the practice of forced marriage to continue. It was a human rights issue in her eyes. She supported Lord Lester's Bill on Forced Marriages as it ensured that forced marriage was seen as a crime.

Jasvinder then told the stories of two women who had not survived:

Ruhksana Naz
Her family had found out she had a boyfriend and was forced to marry someone of their choosing. Upon marrying, she became pregnant and her mother, on the mere suspicion that the child was not her husband's, told her to abort the child (she was 7 months pregnant) or the family would kill her. One day, her mother and brother took her down to the cellar. Her mother sat on Ruhksana's legs whilst her brother strangled her to death.

Well, now a bunch of towns in UP are on fire...

You can't blame it all on pakis any more - these terror attacks... looks like indian muslims are slowly but surely plugging into international jihad ideology...

What say you, GT?

#45 Posted by SRK:

"I sincerely asked those questions not sarcastically."

Thanks.

"my experience most of the government transition from local to state level is smooth except for some pockets of areas."

Most (around 80%) of urban centers with a population less than equal to 100,000 do not have funds for a municipal election. Forger operating funds. Hence they are governed through the DMs, DCs etc. The funds allocated to MP, MLAs are barely sufficient for their own 'splurges'. The situation has changed drastically in a negative sense from the 70s. This is worrisome and the "India Shining" crowd are barely aware of this fact. Implementation of Panchayats is again disasterous. Only the left parties have been able to implement significant (long term) establishments. The BJP tried very hard but did not succeed, except in Gujrat. Regional parties, who you would think have an incentive to implement, failed. But this, statistics, is largely due to Naidu not being able to break into the Naxal belt. I am sure that the Naxals have some "hoopla" going (surely non-democratic), but it does not show up in the data. The AGP is a dismal failure, though I think that the Jamaat like the Naxals have some non-democratic institutions going. There is no need to talk about the Congress. In essence the only grassroot establishments, primitive and perhaps non-democratic, have been instituted by parties I immensely dislike.

"Some of these factionists joined the political parties and carried their rivalries into politics which tainted the whole democracy process."

Rivalries do not taint the democratic process. They are essential for the democratic process. Non-rivalries, i.e. backroom collusion is what is disastrous. Think about it for a moment and you will agree that most politicians, cutting across political lines, are hand-in-glove. And that is the problem. You see they need to compete and not collude. And this is possible only in a "democracy".

"With nearly 1 billion population and about 40% of them being illiterate don't you think it is natural to have these kind of problems in the democratic political process."

I would like to see these problems as the pains of the learning process, like learning calculus in high school. Furthermore, being illiterate does not mean "uneducated". I have learned the most from these "illeterate" people. One day, I promise, I will tell you a related story. But do remind me. It had to do with the proposition that "the earth is round".

Regards.

#46 I do not know the breakdown. The last time i checked the literacy rate was somewhere in low 60's.

Re: # 45 40% ill literatate are they old folks? As the old population dies will this portion will go to very single digit due to change in demography ? Just wonder

#43 GT
I sincerely asked those questions not sarcastically. My apologies if i gave you that impression.

I am from South, from my experience most of the government transition from local to state level is smooth except for some pockets of areas. Most of the violence is due to factionism and castiesm. Lot of the faction fights originated from economic interests not because of politics. Some of these factionists joined the political parties and carried their rivalries into politics which tainted the whole democracy process. But i think this is changing slowly.

With nearly 1 billion population and about 40% of them being illiterate don't you think it is natural to have these kind of problems in the democratic political process.

Here is a report from the Indian Express. It confirms my hypothesis that Nandigram and calcutta are different. Furthermore, CPM has taken the wind out of the Jamaat (in fact they do not even mention the Jamaat, though they mention the Congress and Trinamul). Clever move.


Kolkata, November 22: Nothing illustrates better the control the CPM has on its cadres than the manner in which it got them to exercise unusual restraint yesterday in the face of a mob that attacked party offices protesting against Taslima Nasreen’s presence and the Nandigram violence.

Clearly on the defensive, the party’s strategy this time was the opposite of what it was in Nandigram, in Chief Minister Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee’s own words — “pay back in their own coin.”

Also, given that the protesters were mainly Muslim and the “cause” was both religious (Taslima) and political (Nandigram), the CPM could not afford any retaliatory flare-up across the city.

So unlike in Nandigram where cadres “recaptured” turf as the party and the administration watched, in Kolkata yesterday, restraint was the order of the day — in fact, the order of the party.

“We immediately called our leaders in Alimuddin Street (the party’s headquarters),” said Mihir Das, secretary of the CPM’s Beniapukur local committee, whose office was one of the those attacked by the protesters. “You can understand how serious the provocation was. Some in the mob were known faces of the Trinamool and Congress. We are a dominating force here and no one has ever dared to indulge in such activity. We could have taken care of them, we could have killed them but our leaders told us to observe restraint. We had to follow.”

In his police complaint, Das wrote that a mob of 200 had forced their way into the office and ransacked it before they “attempted to murder” him by “throwing me into the fire.”

Similar is the story of Manzar Ahsan, CPM councillor of Ward No 60, whose office in Tanti Bagan Lane serves as the CPM branch office as well as the training unit for an Integrated Child Development Centre. In his police complaint, Ahsan wrote: “A mob with deadly weapons like swords, hockey sticks, wooden and iron rods trespassed into our office room and drove us out...destroyed furniture, set accessories on fire...three persons attempted to kill me by pushing me in the fire.” Today, Ahsan was not available for comment but his assistant said: “The instructions were clear, we were not supposed to hit back.”

“Bahur bardasht kiya,” (We tolerated a lot), said Salma Begum, a zonal committee member of the CPM women’s wing Ganatantrik Mahila Samity. Her office at Jan Bazar Road was also the target of the mob. “They abused women leaders and our cadres threatening to attack us if we did anything. But we had clear instructions not to react. The leaders told us not to worry, not to do anything that might heighten the tempers. We listened to what the leaders said.”

According to Begum, the area has 206 full-time party members, about 6000 in the DYFI (the student’s wing), about 4000 in the women’s front and another 5000 in the “Bustee Federation” run by the party. “The strength of the troublemakers was nothing compared to what we have. We could have done anything but we did not. “

When asked about this contrast with Nandigram, Rabin Deb, Kolkata district secretariat member and CPM’s former chief whip in the Assembly, told The Indian Express: “Our instructions were not to retaliate, that the administration will take whatever steps necessary. We maintained restraint because the attack was sudden and it involved religious sentiments. How can you compare this with Nandigram, there we acted only after 11 months of restraint.”

Said CPM MP Mohammed Salim: “We did not allow our workers to walk into the trap set by the protesters.” If only, the comrades had advised the cadres similarly in Nandigram.

#42 Posted by SRK:

"What is your vision of democracy?"

At the least, a set-up where a majority of the people who care have the ability to change the "rulers" without violence over a period of time if they want to. By "rulers", I mean all those at the central, state and panchayat/municipal levels. We are doing reasonably at the central level. We need to do more at the other levels.

"What needs to be changed in India for you to change your opnion?"

I am skeptical of a few people making "changes". It is a process of group dynamics. I think we are going in the right direction, though with a lot of hiccups. I doubt whether "experts" can make things better at the group level. Individually we do what we can.

"Do you have any examples of ideal democracy that currently exists in the world?"

No, but Western Europe and the US are far ahead of us.

p.s. Sorry for giving serious answers to sarcastic questions.

#41
"No, it is not my vision of democracy. We need to go a long way."
Can you please elaborate? What is your vision of democracy? What needs to be changed in India for you to change your opnion? Do you have any examples of ideal democracy that currently exists in the world?

TIA

#39 Posted by pmishra2:

"So you support the kind of mob violence, killing and looting that is taking place in calcutta? You support calls for the murder of Taslima Nasreen?"

No, I do not.

"This is your vision of democracy????"

No, it is not my vision of democracy. We need to go a long way.

"I am glad to see the army out in force."

And so am I.

It may be major assault to root out minority support to left.if left has used communalism , Congress has always played religion card through Jammat Ulema .
Btw there are many jammats .Jammat Islam Jammat Ulema Hind Jammat Ulema Islami and Tablegh Jammat There counterpart in Bdesh And Pakistan...So Islamic And Jammat are non speific terms



Trouble trio

Idris Ali trying to calm supporters
The persons/organisations associated with the events that led to the flare-up on Wednesday

Name: Idris Ali

Who/what: President of the All India Minority Forum

Known for: Filing public interest litigations (PILs). He says he has filed around 300

What does his forum stand for: Raising minority issues from across the world

Political affiliation: Congress

Earlier trouble with law: Known for putting up road blocks

Presence: Nothing significant

Name: Siddiqullah Chowdhury

Who: Secretary of the Jamait Ulema-i-Hind and convener of the Milli Ittehad Parishad, an umbrella body of minority organisations

Known for: Came under the spotlight during the Nandigram agitation

Political affiliation: Anti-Left

Earlier trouble with law: When he tried to go to Singur frequently to fan anti-Tata Motors protests

Presence: Across Bengal


Idris Ali trying to calm supporters
Name: Toha Siddiqui

Who: President of the Furfura Sarif Muzadeedia Anath Foundation

Known for: One of the members of the pir clan who presides over the religious sect

What does it stand for: Voices minority issues

Political affiliation: Anti-Left

Presence: Large following across Bengal

Strength: Popular support

#38 GT

So you support the kind of mob violence, killing and looting that is taking place in calcutta? You support calls for the murder of Taslima Nasreen? If so, you are a disgusting scumbag.

This is your vision of democracy???? Its not mine, and, yes, this is democrazy. I am glad to see the army out in force.

#37 Posted by Shah2:

"Its incomprehensible."
Most riots in India are. Almost all political parties follow, or have followed, this path.

#34 Posted by pmishra2:

"They dont need them, they can mobilize and use indian "demo-crazy" to advance their extremist and disgusting causes."

So, are you suggesting that we get rid of "demo-crazy"? Or, do you want to butcher the Jamaatis? Wait, their front in Assam has Hinud MLAs!

Actually, I suggest you get rid of the Jamaatis, the Brahmins and Mayawati. Otherwise, pretty soon I see a joint front between them.

#54
#36

Sorry i was not privy to todays paper and read it now.It indeed seems you are correct.
Its incomprehensible.Some one is stoking the fire from behind .And headless illiterate chicken is out of control.There is no excuse its hooliganism ,gundagardi and criminality

#35 Posted by Shah2:

"Its Nadigrammainly"

If you are talking about Calcutta, then it is not mainly about Nandigram. It is about the Jamaat trying to increase its base. The riot simply was a demonstration of force.

#34
Who cares about one writer .

Its Nadigrammainly

murder of Rizwan (which will upset all inter faith marriages of which india there is no dearth of)
are just poitcal manipulation (by timool)as Ram temple was made out by Advani in 80s

As we all know, CPI(M) is as rabidly communal as BJP. Only difference was, they were playing the muslim minority card - thru support of bangladeshi immigration, thru relationship with Jamaat and so on. Being fools and ignorant of history, they were not aware of what happens to "godless left revolutionaries" in islamic heavens like Iran, Pakistan etc.

But now many districts in Bengal are 40-60% muslim. Muslim communal forces no longer need their tactical partnership with the communists. They dont need them, they can mobilize and use indian "demo-crazy" to advance their extremist and disgusting causes.

What a spectacle ! In the land of Tagore and Amartya Sen - a poor middle-class women writer is being targetted by howling mobs of men. And no one has come forward to unambiguously protect her, no one.

I’m a bit confused who are mozzies, is it some muslim sect who marry hindu women.
It seems hindus in India are just as bad as Sikhs in UK, when it comes to their daughters marrying outside their religion, especially a muslim.

#30 would that be broken down by religion or nationals of adjoining state irrespective of religion ?
might is right b/c bengali muslims are not only rural Krishi un sophisticated unwealthy

as against as hindutva non bengalis .They are easy target compared to hindu bengali who rule them,non bengali business community

#27
#28
Your daughter does not need your Tamil permission after 18.Padma married,rushshdie , Rao married You know the hundred others.

In Calcutta the business community is too busy making money they do not give love specially to there daughter who are lesser than men in inheritence .Iknow this b/c every suitable muslim boy in my college had hindu girl falling for them knowing fully it would be socially unacceptable



'We need to squash the Mozzies like we squash mosquitoes."

Ha Ha Ha dream on

there are population figures of districts, and yes, there are figures for the entire east and west Bengal. Pray explain how this is might is right. But hang on, why am I expecting sense out of 12 head?

Why not bring up the census figures if you want?

There is no census of how many muslims were in west bengal and how many in east.You cannot muscele your self like Bjp marwaris Todis with might is Right.

India has right to do whatever but people have right to object which maybe over ruled as in court.

Re nb #25

[Do you really think Ashok Todi could have had Rizwan killed even if he was upper middle class, not poor? And would he have dared think about it if Rizwan had been wealthy?]

Mozzies should be permitted to only marry Mozzie women. Laying eyes on Hindu women should carry the death penalty in India.

Re cliftonbridge #6

[I think India should pawn her off to europe or america where her presence would not lead to the loss of other peoples lives.]

Netherlands, maybe? No, I don't think so. Remember the Prophet Mohammad cartoons?

Nordic countries? No, the Mozzies there are killing their daughters for the crime of being in love with somebody not acceptable to the parents. Ditto for England.

The problem is not India or any other country. The problem is the Mozzies. We need to squash the Mozzies like we squash mosquitoes.

#23 stukay, my problem is not that there are Muslims from Bengal, it is that there are migrants from Bangladesh. I don't grudge them their efforts at making a living. I do however grudge their trying to change the way Indians live and trying to dictate to the Indian Government.

Shah2, please feel free to keep flagging my posts. Chowk staff are not fools like you and will see there is nothing objectionable.
Do you really think Ashok Todi could have had Rizwan killed even if he was upper middle class, not poor? And would he have dared think about it if Rizwan had been wealthy?
And yes, I believe that about 24 Parganas, percentage wise there are more Muslims in some districts than before partition. Most people in the area acknowledge it.Why not bring up the census figures if you want? Do what you will.You are much more likely than me to be bald and middle-aged,in fact quite clearly are middle-aged, so why the fuss?

"I think India should pawn her off to europe or america where her presence would not lead to the loss of other peoples lives. "


?? India has the right to offer a visa to whomsover India wants. This Muslim methodology of threatening violence needs to be paid back in the same coin.

what we need is a kick in the arse to Bengali Muslins who are defacto Bangladeshis in any case. Indians should remember that the first demand for Pakistan came from Bengali Muslims. Bengali Muslims first betrayed India and then betrayed Pakistan. These Bangladeshis should be repatriated, forcefully if required, to Bangladesh.

#16 "I think that case is more about money than anything els

You say thay b/c Todi payed lakhs to some goon to shut rizwan up .Rizwan was not rich enough to live behind gated building like Todi.Any body could walk into his house oenly at any time with no privacy.So in your opinion Briber is not guilty on the contrary law prosecutes the guy who ORDERS the hit more than the hit man.( even if he was DRIVEN to suicide)
And in all this what was Rizwans fault.If Todi couldnt stop Priyanka with love why kill murder when the fault lies with u.
...............................
Do you have any proof of this BULLSHIT or you r like TODI another BJP
Re: # 14
In some areas of 24 Parganas, the percentage of Muslims is higher than before Partition. I don't blame the Bangladeshis, how unfortunate must they be that India looks good, I blame the political parties that have not acknowledged this phenomenon. The Left in Bengal has encouraged it because they have believed that Muslims vote for them-why, I'm not sure-where else in the world do Muslims vote for supposed atheists-and now they must face the music, not the Bangladeshis.

If that is believable with percep[tion ,theories and tinted vision Then you must really be a bald middle aged male sitting in Aussies .

Re: # 16
yes, I do know about Rizwan-I posted a thread on unplugged months ago. I refer you to greatbong's blog. I think that case is more about money than anything else.

Re: # 14
In some areas of 24 Parganas, the percentage of Muslims is higher than before Partition. I don't blame the Bangladeshis, how unfortunate must they be that India looks good, I blame the political parties that have not acknowledged this phenomenon. The Left in Bengal has encouraged it because they have believed that Muslims vote for them-why, I'm not sure-where else in the world do Muslims vote for supposed atheists-and now they must face the music, not the Bangladeshis.

Rashid miaN, can you translate the wiggly script?

Clifton Bridge khala jaan, why doesn't the chowk bundle you off instead of Taslima Nasreen for your (futilely) trying to rabble-rouse peace-loving chowkies like I?!

India is a big country. It can take a lot of crap from troublemakers. It can decide who to give visa to. If it can shelter the Dalai Lama - it can shelter Tasleema Nasreen - notwithstanding the gutless attitude of the Bangladeshis and the spineless Pakistani "educated" (like you)! India does not need (or heed) approval from abroad for every time its leaders need to visit the bathroom.

They can crap by themselves without any foreign assistance, thank you!

The CPM is probably only the latest (but not the first) party to realize the obvious fact that one can stoke the flames of communal fires only for so long before getting burnt by the same.

کولکتا میں کرفیو اٹھا لیا گیا


Updated at 11:10 PST

کولکتا............…بھارت کے شہر کولکتا میں گزشتہ روز کی جھڑپوں کے بعد لگایا جانے والا کرفیو اٹھالیا گیا ہے ۔کولکتا کے پولیس کمشنر نے بتایا کہ علاقے میں حالات معمول کی طرف لوٹ رہے ہیں، تاہم کرفیو اٹھانے کے بعد بھی شہر کے حساس علاقوں میں فوج کا گشت جاری رہے گا۔کولکتا میں گزشتہ روز ایک مسلم گروپ کی جانب سے مغربی بنگال کے ضلعNandigram میں جنوری سے اب تک چونتیس افراد کے ہلاکت کے خلاف احتجاج کی کال دی گئی تھی۔اس دوران حکومت کے حامیوں،پولیس اور مظاہرین کے درمیان جھڑپوں میں درجنوں افراد زخمی ہوئے تھے اورمشتعل افراد نے چالیس بسوں کو آگ لگادی تھی۔پولیس نے دوسو افراد کو حراست میں لیا تھا۔
In short people were protesting for the killing of 34 people since January.

He was a humble Muslim computer programmer living in a Kolkata chawl, she was the daughter of an industrialist worth over Rs 200 crore.
When Rizwan-ur Rehman and Priyanka Todi eloped and married in August, all hell broke lose.

Ashok Todi, Priyanka's father, tried to snatch away his daughter from Rizwan's home. Rizwan with a humble salary of Rs 11,000 was helpless in his fight against the high and mighty. Sadly, Rizwan's misfortune did not end there and he died a few days later in suspicious circumstances.

The Todi family claims it is a case of suicide while Rizwan's family has no doubt that their son was murdered.

It was only after the media took up the issue, that the state government assigned the case to the Central Bureau of Investigation.

Modiji - we are yearning for you
by tali on Nov 22, 2007 08:58 AM | Hide replies

Please come to center and build the unfinished Ram temple.You are the bravest Hindu who can destroy the 3000 structures and rebuild temples again on those occupied lands.
BJP some times talks like congress,we need people like you to strengthen BJP in its ideology.

#12 Posted by nb:

"The demographics of Calcutta and its surrounds have been changed completely by infilitration over the last several years."

It depends on what you mean by "completely". Just after independece these areas had substantial Muslim population. The census figures do not suggest changes which are "abnormal" and hence the migration thesis cannot be statistically justified. However, the BJP is big time playing the game, i.e. saying exactly what you are saying. On my part, I believe, that there has been some migration, but nothing compared to say the percentage in Darrang (Assam) or, from private observation, in the Gokuldham slums of Mumbai.

#6 Cliftonbridge, so it's Taslima's responsibility, not that of the rioters?

#7 apparently against Taslima Nasreen to start with-she wants her visa to be extended.
The demographics of Calcutta and its surrounds have been changed completely by infilitration over the last several years.
Did the marxists think they could keep doing this, and nothing would happen? Communal riots haven't occurred in Calcutta in my lifetime.

This is a slightly modified version of what I had written about Nandigram in UP. I have also put this in my ilog. I am now adding it to FP interacts because I think that this point has to be repeated given that, the media, and now chowk articles, is not reporting on the core issue. I apologise for multiple postings. I put the following facts, along with certain beliefs (which I clearly state when I take recourse to them), for your consideration.

1. The CPM's claim to fame is land reforms. In West Bengal, it meant that, use rights but not property rights were handed over to those who were actually cultivating the land AT THAT TIME. Use rights do not allow the 'owner' of the land to sell the land. However, it allows the cultivator to cultivate the land without any threat of eviction. The land can also pass on to children but it cannot be sold. So, for example, it cannot be used as a collateral to secure a loan. However, since monitoring who actually cultivates the land is difficult, the person who had the land 'registered' in his name did not have to continue cultivating it. For at least a generation this problem did not arise as cultivators remained cultivators.

2. Most cultivators who benifited from land reforms were CPM members (or converted into CPM members).

3. The land around Calcutta has a huge proportion of Muslims (at places above 50%). Most Muslims were traditionally Congress supporters. Hence, they did not benifit from the reforms as the Hindus did. Plus a sizeable proportion of the Muslims was (is) into small time trade and worked in the handicraft and leather sectors.

4. In Nandigram, the land 'owners' are both Hindus and Muslims. They have done well for themselves given the success of commercial cropping. The second generation is largely out of cultivation. So most of the land is no longer owner cultivated, but is cultivated through hired labor and share cropping! But share cropping and working the fields require that the ‘owner’ monitor the workers or the actual amount of harvest. This, I believe, was getting to be difficult with the younger family members of the “owner” migrating to urban areas for ‘babu’ type jobs. I believe that, given such problems of monitoring, most 'land-owners' were happy to ‘sell’ for the SEZ. (Note, the present problem would not have arisen had the “owners” refused to sell. This point will become clearer as we proceed).
5. In point 4, above, "selling" is simply a compensation by the govt. (who always owned the land) to those under whom the land was registered. "Selling", otherwise has no meaning when the owners only have use rights but no property rights.

6. Almost 60 to 70 percent of the hired labor, share-croppers and traders who sell to the workers (like petty shop-keepers) are Muslims. These guys are the ones who lost out when the land was sold. Do note that the Congess was becomming weaker and weaker politically. A political void was created. The people who lost needed political representation for them to be properly compensated. We shall come to who filled this void after a small deviation in 7.
7. With the influx of hardworking but poor illegal, and hence exploited, Bangladeshi immigrants into the North East region as well as the area near Calcutta, a constituency, unaffiliated with any political party, was developing. In the North East they are now, hopefully, being effectively represented by the Jamaat. I believe that, they are also present as share croppers and hired workers in the Nandigram area (I have no idea about the actual proportion). In any case the informal Muslim network was not getting the political support it required. The CPM drunk with power had become lax.

8. The Jamaat stepped in. According to my political understanding it communalized the situation. Others may argue that this is not communalization, but politics according to Islamic ideals. The CPM was caught napping and a sizeable section of the local leadership went over to the Jamaat folds. Mamta and the Naxals also moved in. CPM cadres were driven out of their houses. The CPM woke up, and as usual its cadre of thugs (both Hindus and Muslims) retaliated. And they did retaliate with violence.

7. Idiots ranging from two time jounalists to Romilla Thapar cannot distinguish heads from tails. The issue is that of "use rights" vs. "property rights". The Marxists did not understand it then and do not do so today.
8. The CPM stronghold is extremely strong in the rural areas and relatively weak in Calcutta. So the Jamaat used Nandigram, and that stupid Bangladeshi writer, to mobilize those Muslims in Calcutta who were previously under the protection of the Congress and the Chatra Parishad. The BJP was waiting just for this to happen. It can now dig into the Hindu vote bank of the Congress.
9. Plain and simple, no rocket science. The CPM, being one of the sanest political parties in India, have immediately brought in the army. I predict that it will resort to massive violence over the comming months through its cadre. To allow for this violence it will give the Congess some slack over the nuclear issue. If Pakistanis are a bit confused over the cadre base of the CPM, think MQM.
(P.S. I am not a Bengali and for that matter I am hardly an Indian)

No comments from chowk's resident NRI(non-indian resident of india), farzana versey?

GT,

As far as I know, in India only Hanuds are communalooon, Muslas are seccularoooon.

Regards

I had previously thought that India should conduct atmospheric neclear tests over Allahabad with Anand Bhavan as the epicenter.

I think all of Waste Bengal should be declared a nuclear free-fire zone. After all tests are completed, the place should be handed over to Bangladesh so that the poor Mozzies can find a dry place to stay in. Really, all of Bangladesh is bound to wash away into the Bay of Bengal some time in the future and those people need some land to live on.

What were the reasons of uprising.

I think India should pawn her off to europe or america where her presence would not lead to the loss of other peoples lives.

#4 Posted by mohar11:

It is the All India Minority Forum (but essentially the Jamaat). They have been able to mobilize around Cal. due to Nandigram etc. (you may want to see my write-up in UP). BJP is quite strong in Cal. And both feed off each other ... you know the script. Cal. is interesting because the CPM is not really that strong (relative to other areas in WB). It has been winning elections recently because of the Cong. decline. Muslims who were typically with the Cong. are now being wooed by both the fundoos and the commies.

Re: # 3 GT

who are the communal parties challenging commies?... BJP and allies are almost non-existent in WB...

The communal parties are directly challenging the communists, with the SUCI and Mamta jumping around in the sidelines. This is going to be a very interesting fight. I would really like to see how the commies deal with this (they did quite well in the Gorkhaland crisis). But this fight has come to Cal.! Lets see how it pans out. Do keep us informed Ms. Ghosal.

My sympathies to nb.

The problem with west bengal is that you bangalis are just too full of yourselves...in addition to being intellectually and physically lazy...

But it's a Good write-up... good to see atleast one bong is owning up the self-created problems...