Where is Ibn-Sina of the 21st Century?

the point is creating an atmosphere for nurturing of ideas into lasting useful shyte is a non-trivial thing..many ideas prolly die a quick death without social nurture, capital infusion etc. just some religion wont do, it can at best be a hinderance. its hard to look for that one line about going to china in middle of all the other copious shyte which you need to worry about when eternal damnation is at stake.

IMO great ideas are not that easy to form in general, a lot of stars need to align.
...its silly to claim that islami greats stopped happening due to colonialization. we have had at least two fabulously rich islami empires, the mughal and the ottoman (you can add the ispahanis to that and then you get a third) which were without any colonialization. if at all, the islamis were the colonial powers in baghdad and damascus and jerusalem and alaexandria and basra and tunis. we can grant the the mughals were not much good due to the currupt-hindu influence, but the ottomans and ispahanis have no such hinderance. i mean halaku may have borrowed a few books for his campfire, but is that enough? after all these empires were fabulously rich.

Alpha Sahib, that’s only one among many of the interpretations. Islam is not monolithic. Scientists like Abdus Salam were religious to the point of being fanatical. 6th century Arabic traditions and value system can only be realized by 6th century Arabs. Some of us are living in that time period. And if religion itself is mandating blind faith (as you argue) than that makes it twice as strong a case to challenge it.

Eklavya. Your opening statement says it all. Why do you think that it were my “Hindu” buddies?

Hard to believe kul bhai actually wrote this. Seems more handiwork of one of his Hindu buddies who slipped it under kul's name while the two were out drinking together.
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No humility? Humility is a fundamental characteristic, almost a requirement in Islam. Bowing to God's will, leaving matters - any matter - ultimately in His hands without shirking effort - if you see a person not do that, you can safely count the person a non-Muslim. Perhaps the author wants God to be humble and accept the possibility of being wrong...

'Current' Islam...'irrelevant'...etc. There is only one Islam, as it originated, and as it always must remain. There is no 'current' Islam. Yes, one is free to consider it irrelevant if one is a non-Muslim.

Blind faith? This is the unfairest of criticisms. Islamic philosophy promotes acquisition of knowledge. Most Muslims try to learn things, just as most Hindus, most Buddhists, most Christians do. I don't think there is ANY chowkie (or for that matter, any educated Muslim) who believes in the Quran or Prophet Muhammad (hadith etc) blindly.

If there is ONE blind follower of Islam (one who has not actively and deliberately thought about his religion) here, please step forward, and I will gladly accept this article's thesis.

Kul, another problem I see is that you have placed the blame on the followers wrt to "blind faith" being the culprit. But isn't religion itself mandating "blind faith" and any deviation from that puts you squarely out of the islamic fold? Maybe if matters of science, literature, arts are devoid of religious conscription, we would see more ibn-sina

MAsada Complex, I have finally got it. Yes. I have seen the light.

Kulharee has been manipulated to further the vast chowk-staff/admin/ pakistani-secularoon-munafiqoon-kafiroon-kanjaroon elite agenda.

It now makes sense. Thank the lord.

Masadi, who has been more persecuted muslims or jews? Consider the amount os scientists, artists, writers, business leaders, and visionaries that the world lost. How come there are more jewish scientists, writers, financiers, media men, artists than their muslim counterparts? Why? I will tell you chucklehead, because they don't cry..."Why us?"

Maybe isaac was smarter than ishmael and the progeny would rather produce masadis instead of bernsteins.

Re: # 24 "also understand that the Jewish elite have always used this persecution card to capitalize on it to usurp the rights of entire societies"

So why why not the muslim/islamic elite done the same or managed to do the same? Wait, don't tell me that they are intellectual incompetents and imbeciles that their mind is so shackled by the western elite that they cannot think for themselves.....

Masada Complex you really need to be put in straight jacket with a Gordian knot to boot

Dear friends, I didn’t really think that this will generate such a passionate discussion. Oh well. Even if the present day state of the Muslim world is viewed thru the colonial paradigm (Masadi Sahib’s favorite tinted pair of glasses), what’s the answer to the ills of that world? The metaphor used simply begs for a modern father of modern medicine (yep, Islam being a sick child) to come to the rescue. 21st century Ibn-Sina may come in a shape of a revolution. We shall wait. Patiently. But the patience may be running out.

chalta writes "No, you fool..it is addressed to your idiotic postulate.."Where are the Newtons and Albert Einsteins of 12th and 13th century Europe? If you can answer that question you'll be able to answer the question you ask about Ibn Sina of the 21st century, fool."


This is the kind of intellectual shit that modern day US business schools that these idiots go to are producing. I never asked any question about Ibn Sina, that question was asked by Kulharee. I gave him an answer in the form of a rhetorical question, you (in your bigotry) merely turn that question around and ask me- when it has absolutely nothing to do with what I was getting at

arjun writes : "oh get over it and move the fuck on already....."

If colonization had ended maybe we could "move the fuck on" and heal, but it continues on a global scale much more potent that persecuting a religious group. The persecution of the Jews was that of a personal level. European colonization that affects us and described our history was of a institutional/social level that destroyed our institutions and geared us to serve externals. There is a big difference between the two. Lynching a few African Americans does not produce the same results for society as gearing institutions that ensure the AA remain at the bottom. Understand this difference and also understand that the Jewish elite have always used this persecution card to capitalize on it to usurp the rights of entire societies as they are doing by their colonization of Palestine. Regarding Muslim "colonization" (which I do not support), it was qualitatively different from European colonization in the effects it produced, because the economic structure of the times was different as was the nature of that colonization in that it was more inclusive and not based on the type of bigotry and prejudice that defined European colonization

#20 Posted by Dash_Dot on December 13, 2007 6:36:20 am


Why is he not eulogissed in todays muslim world?


It's funny...the reason he's not eulogized is the reason why there are so few of him

bat-shit-crazy adherence to islamist dogma..

No, you fool..it is addressed to your idiotic postulate.."Where are the Newtons and Albert Einsteins of 12th and 13th century Europe? If you can answer that question you'll be able to answer the question you ask about Ibn Sina of the 21st century, fool."

Re: # 19 Masada Complex this can be said of every colonise nation/country in the world. yet they are able to come out of the shackles of the view imposed on them and do well.

Maybe it is time for you to get another monkey to grind to dust - Mills has been cone and dusted.

FQ (are you really Kulharee).

This article is a great read and ask the questions which must be asked, and raises issues (swept under the carpet in the name expediency or in the case of MASADA complex swept under an analytical carpet in the name of immediate utility).

Within the dimensions of your space, can you comment on why an Ibn-Sina is missing in the muslim world of the 21st Century (of the christian calendar)?

In the passing, wasn't there one (okay a minor one compared to Ibn Sina) - Salaam. Why is he not eulogissed in todays muslim world?

chalta writes "masadi, where are the demotricus and aryabhattas of 7th and 8th century islamic world? "

Your question is better directed to FQ (kulharee), in your bigotry regarding Islam, you cannot see the purpose behind my question: the wider social structure that pushes and cajoles people to act in certain ways is completely beyond his (and yours also by your dimwitted comment) comprehension level to understand.