Where is Ibn-Sina of the 21st Century?

Re: # 81

HP Sahib:

The previous one has four (4) more words on the second line.

Re: # 78

HP sahib:

That first line must have hurt you then. Thru earlier posts your knowledge would have increased on Quit India Movement.

HP writes "The Quran was not responsible for encouraging the Arabs"

The part played by the Quran in the early Islamic community was that of freeing the mind of the shackles of tradition and superstition and received wisdom. That was the foundation which was then exploited by later Muslims for free flowing knowledge and research. That is no small part. Also the influence of Islam, and the resulting social cohesion it provided for the early Muslim community led to a strcuture which made possible such acquisition of knowlege and research. That is the "Islamic" link to those scientists and not that they were theologically inspired to do scientific research.

HP yaar, no big whup. try going two lined deep next time.

#77 Posted by CreateAlpha
#76 Posted by anil

I don’t read your posts beyond the first line. Don’t take it personally though!

HP yaar, why you got to repeat things I have already said. you should have called me, I would have saved you like 30 minutes that you spent writing this

Re: # 71

HP sahib:

You confuse me with your bursts

I only wrote the following in #69:

There is no doubt that stability and affluence once gathered, whatever means it was gathered, in subsequent generation starts bringing out excellence of human mind ... also "XXXXXs" too. This phenomena has nothing to do with religion - Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism etc. etc. This phenomenon has been demonstrated in African societies also.

Even the chini masters think purelanders are going the extremist route

Pakistan cautioned against extremism

SHAIQ HUSSAIN
ISLAMABAD - China has cautioned Pakistan against the surge in extremism while expressing desire for the broad alliance of ‘liberal political forces’ to counter the grave threat.
The Special Envoy of the Chinese government and Senior Vice Foreign Minister Wang Yi called on President Pervez Musharraf here on Thursday.
“The Chinese envoy lauded the President’s steps that he is taking for transition to democracy. He said his country fully supports Pakistan’s endeavours against the menace of terror while expressing desire that the liberal forces should be brought together to tackle the grave threat of extremism,” said an official here requesting anonymity.

Re: # 65

"It is what it says, that muslims are letting mullahs run the show. It does not discuss science or nuclear physics."

For mullah every thing in final analyses /cause is god's will..........so why bother with calculations,,,,,,

Re: # 70

"While I am fully aware that a woman must not enter the sanctity of the mosque, I was unaware that even entering the outside gates was seriously objectionable, specially without permission,,,,,,,,"

Good one,,,,,,,,LOL

Re: # 62

Yes, muslim owmen are pawns to Islamisits.....because they are considered "weak", "deficient" and "lacking trust" by the Sunnat.......it is a programming done very early in their child hoods that makes them accept this piece of revelation for their lives...........I prefer Hirsi to Manji because Hirsi's apostasy is what gives her an unbounded leverage.whereas Manji turns into apologist because she still has to accept the "Islamic Principles" -so typical of PAkistani borns!!!

This is, surprisingly, a better article form Kul. He is not known for his intellect and is often found lacking in writing something coherent. He, at times, even fails to figure out what others wrote, but this article certainly stands out. Looking at his previous endeavors in both article writing and thousands of silly posts, I believe that he probably got helped by someone in writing this article.

Anyway helped or not, this article is substantially better and is a worthy effort. It is thought provoking and at times lucidly argued.

I would argue that the rise of so-called Muslim intellectual contribution during the first few centuries was not because of Islam alone. The religion helped the Arabs unite, they conquered other lands brought money back and got themselves in to financially and culturally comfortable position. The cultural and financial fullness helped the Arabs make some quality contributions in some areas and they became an important part in the human advancement. Arabs built on the knowledge that was already there and in some instances were worthy successors of their great Greek, Roman, Indian, and Central Asian predecessors.

The Quran was not responsible for encouraging the Arabs. In fact the Quran was not even as easily available as it is now thru the Taj company. So, calling Arab achievements as Islamic achievements is a bit stretch. It is the Muslim scholars from India and Pakistan that are responsible for calling every thing Arab as Islamic even the pot of manure they steal from Saudi Arabia becomes the Islamic manure.

After the fall of both the Baghdad and Spanish monarchies, the Arab contribution dwindled to nil at this time. Turks, Central Asians, or even Persians succeeded Arabs but really their contributions were not at par with what the Arabs had contributed. The couple of hundred years of Turkish, Persian or Mughal contributions could be counted on fingers.

Now can we call all these Arabs, Turkish, Persian or Mughal empires- Islamic empires or can we call their rule over the vast lands as Islamic rule? By all accounts, barring the Arab cultural relations with the religion, rest of the empires mostly took pride in their local roots. Mughal in India were not proud of their Islamic religion but they always took pride in their Persian roots. Similarly, the Turks, Persian and a couple or more here and there were fundamentally the representatives of their own geographical regions rather than their religious beliefs.

Most of the Arab contributions to the literary and scientific fields came from the Hispanic branch of the Arab rule. There were a few other bright spots in Baghdad etc., but really the real inspiration was from the Spanish branch of Arab monarchy. The Arab monarchs in Spain were really just continuing on the Roman and the Greek traditions and after years of hard work produced some phenomenal inventors, scientists and historians.

When we don’t call the European inventors, scientists and literary figures by their religious affiliations, I find it simply inconsistence to insist that what Arabs did was Islamic and what Jews or Christians have so far done is European and American.

Why not just say that if Arab contribution was Islamic, then the European and the American contribution now is Jewish and Christian?

In other news...

Sania apologises for shooting inside mosque
14 Dec 2007, 0003 hrs IST,TNN
Print Save EMail Write to Editor





Tennis star Sania Mirza (TOI Photo)
HYDERABAD: The Hyderabad police on Thursday registered a case of house-trespass under Section 448 of IPC against Sania Mirza and an ad agency.

Later in the evening, Sania sent an apology to Mecca Masjid Imam Hafiz Mohammad Usman Naqshbandi. The tennis star had entered the Mecca Masjid in jeans and T-shirt for the shooting of an ad film.

The case was registered on the basis of a complaint filed by Mecca Masjid superintendent Mohammad Nayeemuddin on December 11 against Sania and the ad agency for shooting the promotional film without seeking permission.

Under the section, a person can be imprisoned for one year or fined Rs 1,000 or both. It is a bailable offence.

In her letter, Sania wrote, ‘‘It is with a deep sense of remorse that I would like to apologise to all my brothers, sisters and respected elders, who have been anguished by my entering a portion of the land belonging to the Mecca Masjid, while filming the Charminar with the intention of promoting the heritage monument. While I am fully aware that a woman must not enter the sanctity of the mosque, I was unaware that even entering the outside gates was seriously objectionable, specially without permission, which I was assured by the agency they possessed.''

Re: # 24

Massaddi Mian:

"Regarding Muslim "colonization" ....., it was qualitatively different from European colonization in the effects it produced, ... as was the nature of that colonization in that it was more inclusive and not based on the type of bigotry and prejudice that defined European colonization...."

You show signs of blind fellowship and worship when you trash your own logic by above and other statments like "self-reference". History demonstrates these came out of enslaved minds who were dissenting, yet fearful and submissive. You only fool yourself by diluting it with "comfort" statements.

When armies of Islam, sword of Islam knocked terror in the minds of survivors, who were not killed. What was that? A manifest destiny ?

There is no doubt that stability and affluence once gathered, whatever means it was gathered, in subsequent generation starts bringing out excellence of human mind ... also Massaddi Mians too. This phenomena has nothing to do with religion - Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism etc. etc. This phenomenon has been demonstrated in African societies also.

Massaddi Mian, one adivse - remove your Religion Rose Colored Glasses with Marxist tint. Otherwise in knowledge society of your time, you will be an extinct dinasour and irrelevant. Someone may think you are dangerous, unless your an agent of some intelligence agency.

Re: # 65

"It is what it says, that muslims are letting mullahs run the show."

I think this sound bite is most often used to divert attention from the real culprits that ail Muslim societies like parasites. Take for example, Pakistan, though the issues detailed below can be extrapolated to any Muslim country:

1. We have a lawless and heavily armed mafia in the shape of fouj that controls all resources, all institutions, all information, all education, the whole judicial system, the industry, the trade, the international relations and almost eveything on God's green earth - you name it.

2. The second tier of control resides with corrupt and absolutely amoral politicians who work as front men for the mafia - to sort of legitimizing the rackett, if you will. A few moulvis, who can be counted on toes alone also make up a part of this tier but in the bulk their effectiveness or vote bank is insignificant unless fouj pokes its wand in the ass of a ballot box.

3. The third tier of control lies with instruments of government - the bureaucracy, the police, etc. These are the true enforcer of the corruption and system of oppression as demanded by their Tier 1 & 2 leadres. They are the one who make the lives of people miserable on every fukking day from buying a sack of flour to as little thing as just simply getting to home on your bicycle thru a police checkpoint. A claim that bureaucracy and police are corrupt because moulvis make them is as ridiculous as it sounds.

4. The 4th Tier of control is Qabza group, the racketeers, outlaws, the gun runners, puRi walay, and generally the lawless element in the society. This tier is controlled by first three to bear desirable outcomes for them which includes, intimidating helpless citizens, occupying their land and property, extort money from them, kill political opponents, fix polling stations and what not. They maintain the necessary terror upon society to sort of giving an illusion to the society as to what would it be like if Tier 1,2, $3 were not there.

These are the four pillers on which the State of Pakistan maintains itself. These four pillars establishes themselves on millions of those who make mile long ques just to buy flour everyday, those who worry about how to pay their bills everyday, and those for whom getting home safely not thru the guantlets of criminals, but thru corrupt public officials, through police checkpoints without paying money, is a feat; they worry about the safety of their children their family at home.

If you are blaming this group that they cannot produce a bhonsri ka ibn-e-sina then that is quite a cruel demand and if you are blaming their misery on them because of their belief then it is even cruelr. No Mullah is controlling pakistan. The only people who are controlling pakistan are very eveil people from the four tiers above.

Mr. Qutubshahi, may I ask, whose translations of the Holy Qur'an have you read so far? Have you compared some, or sifted through Hadith literature to know what perversions ail the truth?

You can't judge God's word and the prophets by what Mullahs say or what the Saudis do. What Allah prescribes is there in his uncorrupted Book. Please find the time to read; you will find the answers to all your spiritual and material problems.

Only those tread the Rushdie/Taslima way who are paid stooges, this is settled.

As for your words that 'stories of ancient Egypt has no (to little) relevance to today’s world', if you find Surah Yusuf giving you no moral or ethical lessons, it is entirely your own shortcoming. God will question you, you won't ever get to do that to Him!

Peace, Shalom, Shanti or whatever . . .