The Plan To Topple Pakistan Military

Well written article Mr. Qureshi:

I have been saying the same things on my own and I am glad that there is someone else who shares the same views. Please take a look at the following article by Prof. Michel Chossudovsky. You will find it very interesting as it supports yours article "The Plan to Topple the Pakistan Military" completely:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7705

Following is the e-mail received about the author, Mr Ahmed Quraishi.

Ahmed Quraishi's ''enlightening' ' articles have been doing the rounds on the net of late. One can only describe him as Pakistan's very own Bill O' Reilly (with just as much credibility! ). And like O' Reilly, his most used weapon of choice is the tag of 'traitor' and 'unpatriotic' for anyone who criticizes the government (or perhaps just el presidente, the now retired generalisimo) , be they politicians, journalists, lawyers, academics, human rights activists, former army officers et al. It seems Mr. Quraishi gets his inspiration (along with his fake American accent) from Fox News.

Even a cursory look at his website might help one understand Mr. Quraishi's "unbiased, journalistic, analytical, and professional " approach to issues he so passionately addresses in his articles. Mr. Quraishi's website is studded with countless gems that reflect the luminosity of his brilliance, breadth of vision, and intellectual maturity.

For instance, in the 'biography' section of ahmedquraishi. com, (also known as the ''tooting one's own horn' section) we are informed that "Starting in the year 2003, Mr. Quraishi has lent his expertise to FurmaanRealpolitik www.furmaanrealpoli tik.com.pk), a political consulting firm originally based in Dubai."

A look at the website of furmaanrealpolitik. com.pk . (who came up with this subtle name, one wonders?) helps answer questions people might entertain regarding Mr. Quraishi's credibilty, motives and unique understanding of national and international affairs.

The 'services' offered by furmaanrealpolitik include "Intelligence, Research & Analysis;" "Surveillance & Confidential Investigations; " "Mobilization & Campaign Development; " and (my personal favourite) "Immaculate Deception Creations Tailored to Your Senses."
This 'service' is not only my favourite for the brilliant title it boasts but also for its content:

'Immaculate Deception Creations Tailored to Your Senses'? Immaculate Deception... Are we talking about peddling untruths in order to deceive? Oh dear! So how do Mr. Quraishi and the boys at furmaanrealpolitik serve their clients? The website says: "Anyone can do TV. But we go a step further -- we create...Our production can be tailored to business, political and military requirements. "

So whether it is Benazir Bhutto or Nawaz Sharif or Pervez Musharaf or the ISI or Coca Cola or Tapal Danedar Chai, the ''passionate' ' team at furmaanrealpolitik will sell its services to the highest bidder and come up with ''immaculately deceptive'' techniques ''tailored'' to their respective ''senses'' (and by senses I am guessing Mr. Quraishi is not talking about a sense of decency here!).

Is Mr. Quraishi telling us that as part of a political consulting/lobbying firm that proudly lists on its website its expertise in conjuring up lies and deceptions, that he actually makes his living by peddling lies and untruths? Or as he calls them "immaculate deceptions?"

As an analyst and a journalist, what does this say about his work, his credibility?

Are we to understand that every word Mr.Quraishi pens is written on the behest of a client? Could it be that Mr. Quraishi's 'insightful and unique take on national and international affairs is as faux as his American accent and can vary depending on who bids the highest for his immaculately deceptive words?

In case Mr. Quraishi has misunderstood the meaning of the word deception and used it by mistake (and with the same casual attitude and effort with which he throws conspiracy theories and allegations about in his articles), let me offer the servies of my humble thesauraus. Alternatives for the word deception are listed as: dishonesty, trickery, fraud, con, sham, trick, ruse, cheating... etc.

Forget about out the rest of the world, I wonder how seriously his own son, little Al Waleed, would take daddy dearest the next time he is instructed not to lie and to always tell the truth!

The remaining "natural" Pakistan would lie entirely east of the Indus, except for a westward spur near Karachi.

I have quoted from part of the article that talks about independent karachi . i will send in the map also later. in 1947 at time of independence ,pakistan was being ruled by urduspeakers. the ruling eurduspeaking elite as a matter of policy encouraged urduspeakers to settle in karachi . karachi was the capital . liaquat ali khan had no base or votes in pakistan and he deliberately encourage the settlement of urduspeakers in karachi to create a base for himself . the quota system is based on urban and rural sind. it does not specifically mention the two ethnicities. urduspeakers are no more than 35% of population of sind. do u think its just that they have more than they share in public sector jobs when they already completely dominate the private sector in sind? jammat islami nodoubt opposed partition before 1947. however after that it has steadfastly been most anti-india. they are the most steadfast supporters of kashmir issue. there have been others who opposed partition but these people do not command the majority of votes in their communities. ANP doesnt have majority of pukhtoons behind it . GM Syed's party never won elections. But MQM has and time and time again . part if its success is its unbashed use of terror . but the fact is that urduspeakers support MQM.Even those who do not support MQM's tactics have sympathy with its ideology. In any case no one except altaf hussain has the audacity to go to delhi and in front of whole world declare partition the greatest blunder in human history. for the rest of pakistan , this is treachery enough. As for sindhis which sindhis u r talking about? whatever their political leanings be,they are against bringing back biharis, they consider the capture of their cities by urduspeakers a great disaster for them . but they are realistic. they came to terms with the fact that you guys cant be removed . but what did u guys do? you deprived ppp,which commands the voted of most sindhis of its due share of power in sind. in 2002 elections mqm had 41 seats in sind assembly and ppp had 68. yet musharaf a biased urduspeaker refused to give ppp a chance to form government . he handed over governorship of sind to a criminal who had once assaulted an army major , and the most important ministrues of finance and police to mqm . sindhis had no important ministry in sind government during 2002-2007.

I meet a lot people. and i know their emotions. you can not imagine the anger felt at mqm for may 12 in punjab and nwfp. the NWFP assembly even passed a resoloution on this. nawaz sharif is a very keena parwar man and he will not spare mqm. one day judicary will be restored and then there will be proper investigation of may 12. justu wait and see.

{When i talk of IBA,LUMS, i am raising a totally valid point . I am talking about the complete superiority that urduspeakers have over sindhis because they control the cities.}
I don't get the point. When Mohajir migrated they were given those places in Karachi and Hyderabad and stayed there.

{In India there are quotas RESERVED IN every college,university for lower caste hindus and people accept that . But when quotas are instituted in pakistan to help lift sindhis , urduspeakers start growling and complaining . The point is that Urduspeakers have no cause to complain }
Do you think it was illogical to complain about quota system which is discriminatory against Mohajir (although I was in favor of it)

They are the most richest and prosperous community yet they have the audacity to declare partition a blunder.

that is your opinion. Many in Pakistan have written on partition and many were against partition. Most prominent among them Jamat-e-Islami. Lot of Muslim leaders from all parts of Pakistan were against partition. If you think all Mohajirs think partition is a blunder, then you should correct yourself.

{On this website i see tons and tons of hatred pumped against punjab and its people by urduspeakers and mqm supporters}

I really cannot guess by name who is mqm supporter and who is urduspeaker on this board. How do you know they are not punjabi, Pathan, Baluch, Sindhi, bengali or Indian.

{Punjabi industrial class grew mainly after 1977. before that punjabis had negligible presence in trade,commerce and industry}

That is your opinion. Textile, sports good, mechanical products have been in Punjab. If you need I will provide you with sources.

{The bottomline is that MQM is a terrorist organization that has ties with india. it has sworn to separate karachi }

Is that your opinion or you have some information like manifesto etc

{ the bottomline is that karachites are determined to deny the sindhis their fair share of power in sind .}

A lot of Sindhis have moved to Karachi. And they think development of Karachi has been good for Sind and Sindhis.

{We the rest of pakistan will no longerallow that}
Who is WE. Are you rest of Pakistan meaning only a single person or are there few more like you.

{just you wait and see . very soon ashfaq kiyani who is a glorious punjabi will withdraw support from mush dehalvi . nawaz sharif and bb will oust mush . In Sind ,Mqm will be banned . Altaf Hussain and his thugs will be tried for May12 massacre . Any attempt by MQM to use violence will be most ruthlessly crushed}

This is just pathetic. Do you want any comment on this.

Sir this is your link, I don't see anything.
:http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2006/06/1833899

COMMENTARYsubsc ribe | email | print | continue the debate Blood borders
How a better Middle East would look
By Ralph Peters
International borders are never completely just. But the degree of injustice they inflict upon those whom frontiers force together or separate makes an enormous difference — often the difference between freedom and oppression, tolerance and atrocity, the rule of law and terrorism, or even peace and war.

The most arbitrary and distorted borders in the world are in Africa and the Middle East. Drawn by self-interested Europeans (who have had sufficient trouble defining their own frontiers), Africa's borders continue to provoke the deaths of millions of local inhabitants. But the unjust borders in the Middle East — to borrow from Churchill — generate more trouble than can be consumed locally.

While the Middle East has far more problems than dysfunctional borders alone — from cultural stagnation through scandalous inequality to deadly religious extremism — the greatest taboo in striving to understand the region's comprehensive failure isn't Islam but the awful-but-sacrosanct international boundaries worshipped by our own diplomats.

Of course, no adjustment of borders, however draconian, could make every minority in the Middle East happy. In some instances, ethnic and religious groups live intermingled and have intermarried. Elsewhere, reunions based on blood or belief might not prove quite as joyous as their current proponents expect. The boundaries projected in the maps accompanying this article redress the wrongs suffered by the most significant "cheated" population groups, such as the Kurds, Baluch and Arab Shia, but still fail to account adequately for Middle Eastern Christians, Bahais, Ismailis, Naqshbandis and many another numerically lesser minorities. And one haunting wrong can never be redressed with a reward of territory: the genocide perpetrated against the Armenians by the dying Ottoman Empire.

Yet, for all the injustices the borders re-imagined here leave unaddressed, without such major boundary revisions, we shall never see a more peaceful Middle East.

Even those who abhor the topic of altering borders would be well-served to engage in an exercise that attempts to conceive a fairer, if still imperfect, amendment of national boundaries between the Bosporus and the Indus. Accepting that international statecraft has never developed effective tools — short of war — for readjusting faulty borders, a mental effort to grasp the Middle East's "organic" frontiers nonetheless helps us understand the extent of the difficulties we face and will continue to face. We are dealing with colossal, man-made deformities that will not stop generating hatred and violence until they are corrected.

As for those who refuse to "think the unthinkable," declaring that boundaries must not change and that's that, it pays to remember that boundaries have never stopped changing through the centuries. Borders have never been static, and many frontiers, from Congo through Kosovo to the Caucasus, are changing even now (as ambassadors and special representatives avert their eyes to study the shine on their wingtips).

Oh, and one other dirty little secret from 5,000 years of history: Ethnic cleansing works.

Begin with the border issue most sensitive to American readers: For Israel to have any hope of living in reasonable peace with its neighbors, it will have to return to its pre-1967 borders — with essential local adjustments for legitimate security concerns. But the issue of the territories surrounding Jerusalem, a city stained with thousands of years of blood, may prove intractable beyond our lifetimes. Where all parties have turned their god into a real-estate tycoon, literal turf battles have a tenacity unrivaled by mere greed for oil wealth or ethnic squabbles. So let us set aside this single overstudied issue and turn to those that are studiously ignored.

The most glaring injustice in the notoriously unjust lands between the Balkan Mountains and the Himalayas is the absence of an independent Kurdish state. There are between 27 million and 36 million Kurds living in contiguous regions in the Middle East (the figures are imprecise because no state has ever allowed an honest census). Greater than the population of present-day Iraq, even the lower figure makes the Kurds the world's largest ethnic group without a state of its own. Worse, Kurds have been oppressed by every government controlling the hills and mountains where they've lived since Xenophon's day.

The U.S. and its coalition partners missed a glorious chance to begin to correct this injustice after Baghdad's fall. A Frankenstein's monster of a state sewn together from ill-fitting parts, Iraq should have been divided into three smaller states immediately. We failed from cowardice and lack of vision, bullying Iraq's Kurds into supporting the new Iraqi government — which they do wistfully as a quid pro quo for our good will. But were a free plebiscite to be held, make no mistake: Nearly 100 percent of Iraq's Kurds would vote for independence.

As would the long-suffering Kurds of Turkey, who have endured decades of violent military oppression and a decades-long demotion to "mountain Turks" in an effort to eradicate their identity. While the Kurdish plight at Ankara's hands has eased somewhat over the past decade, the repression recently intensified again and the eastern fifth of Turkey should be viewed as occupied territory. As for the Kurds of Syria and Iran, they, too, would rush to join an independent Kurdistan if they could. The refusal by the world's legitimate democracies to champion Kurdish independence is a human-rights sin of omission far worse than the clumsy, minor sins of commission that routinely excite our media. And by the way: A Free Kurdistan, stretching from Diyarbakir through Tabriz, would be the most pro-Western state between Bulgaria and Japan.

A just alignment in the region would leave Iraq's three Sunni-majority provinces as a truncated state that might eventually choose to unify with a Syria that loses its littoral to a Mediterranean-oriented Greater Lebanon: Phoenecia reborn. The Shia south of old Iraq would form the basis of an Arab Shia State rimming much of the Persian Gulf. Jordan would retain its current territory, with some southward expansion at Saudi expense. For its part, the unnatural state of Saudi Arabia would suffer as great a dismantling as Pakistan.

A root cause of the broad stagnation in the Muslim world is the Saudi royal family's treatment of Mecca and Medina as their fiefdom. With Islam's holiest shrines under the police-state control of one of the world's most bigoted and oppressive regimes — a regime that commands vast, unearned oil wealth — the Saudis have been able to project their Wahhabi vision of a disciplinarian, intolerant faith far beyond their borders. The rise of the Saudis to wealth and, consequently, influence has been the worst thing to happen to the Muslim world as a whole since the time of the Prophet, and the worst thing to happen to Arabs since the Ottoman (if not the Mongol) conquest.

While non-Muslims could not effect a change in the control of Islam's holy cities, imagine how much healthier the Muslim world might become were Mecca and Medina ruled by a rotating council representative of the world's major Muslim schools and movements in an Islamic Sacred State — a sort of Muslim super-Vatican — where the future of a great faith might be debated rather than merely decreed. True justice — which we might not like — would also give Saudi Arabia's coastal oil fields to the Shia Arabs who populate that subregion, while a southeastern quadrant would go to Yemen. Confined to a rump Saudi Homelands Independent Territory around Riyadh, the House of Saud would be capable of far less mischief toward Islam and the world.

Iran, a state with madcap boundaries, would lose a great deal of territory to Unified Azerbaijan, Free Kurdistan, the Arab Shia State and Free Baluchistan, but would gain the provinces around Herat in today's Afghanistan — a region with a historical and linguistic affinity for Persia. Iran would, in effect, become an ethnic Persian state again, with the most difficult question being whether or not it should keep the port of Bandar Abbas or surrender it to the Arab Shia State.

What Afghanistan would lose to Persia in the west, it would gain in the east, as Pakistan's Northwest Frontier tribes would be reunited with their Afghan brethren (the point of this exercise is not to draw maps as we would like them but as local populations would prefer them). Pakistan, another unnatural state, would also lose its Baluch territory to Free Baluchistan. The remaining "natural" Pakistan would lie entirely east of the Indus, except for a westward spur near Karachi.

The city-states of the United Arab Emirates would have a mixed fate — as they probably will in reality. Some might be incorporated in the Arab Shia State ringing much of the Persian Gulf (a state more likely to evolve as a counterbalance to, rather than an ally of, Persian Iran). Since all puritanical cultures are hypocritical, Dubai, of necessity, would be allowed to retain its playground status for rich debauchees. Kuwait would remain within its current borders, as would Oman.

In each case, this hypothetical redrawing of boundaries reflects ethnic affinities and religious communalism — in some cases, both. Of course, if we could wave a magic wand and amend the borders under discussion, we would certainly prefer to do so selectively. Yet, studying the revised map, in contrast to the map illustrating today's boundaries, offers some sense of the great wrongs borders drawn by Frenchmen and Englishmen in the 20th century did to a region struggling to emerge from the humiliations and defeats of the 19th century.

Correcting borders to reflect the will of the people may be impossible. For now. But given time — and the inevitable attendant bloodshed — new and natural borders will emerge. Babylon has fallen more than once.

Meanwhile, our men and women in uniform will continue to fight for security from terrorism, for the prospect of democracy and for access to oil supplies in a region that is destined to fight itself. The current human divisions and forced unions between Ankara and Karachi, taken together with the region's self-inflicted woes, form as perfect a breeding ground for religious extremism, a culture of blame and the recruitment of terrorists as anyone could design. Where men and women look ruefully at their borders, they look enthusiastically for enemies.

From the world's oversupply of terrorists to its paucity of energy supplies, the current deformations of the Middle East promise a worsening, not an improving, situation. In a region where only the worst aspects of nationalism ever took hold and where the most debased aspects of religion threaten to dominate a disappointed faith, the U.S., its allies and, above all, our armed forces can look for crises without end. While Iraq may provide a counterexample of hope — if we do not quit its soil prematurely — the rest of this vast region offers worsening problems on almost every front.

If the borders of the greater Middle East cannot be amended to reflect the natural ties of blood and faith, we may take it as an article of faith that a portion of the bloodshed in the region will continue to be our own.

Bhai Jan , property par qabza karnay kay liay sara drama kia.Wahan Bombay or Gujrat kay na laiq mussalman memons nay Jinnah ko blank cheque dia.Sab Rokray kee game thee.

SOK,

The % age of Muslim population in India was around 10% in 1951 it is about 15% now. While the Hindus and Sikhs have been decimated from around 25% in Punjab and Sind (in 1940s) to les than 2% now. So figure out who has been more hostile to its minorities!!!

As far as population figures are concerned, do back it up with authentic sources, if you can. And for your information, www.Dalitsan.org and www.Lal Masjid.com is not considered authentic!!!

Re: Bengal One distt Khulna which was 50-50 went to Pak and so did the Chittagong Hills which was almost 100% Buddhist. In turn one Muslim majority distt (I think Murshidabad went to India). So even Stevens.

(16000 muslim women and children were recovered from indian punjab while a little over 8000 non-muslims were recovered from our side. )

Which means I guess that the remaining 8,000 Kaffiroons had either been murdered or exported to Kingdom of Saudi Arabia!!!

Regards

Re: # 150:--

The Muslim League politicians in West Punjab planned the murder of Master Tara Singh's old mother in Gujar Khan Tehsil of Pindi first.This was the first incident in Punjab you bigoted man.All to grab property of Hindus and Sikhs the elite of Punjab.All for money.Massacres in West Punjab were as well organised as East Punjab .Thats why there are no Hindus and Sikhs in West Punjab.Even Sardar Shaukat Hayat acknowledged this.Read his book you ignoramus.

Gurdaspur was 51% muslims without the qadianis . out of 4 tehsins , pathankot had a high concentration of non-muslims (70%)thats . in other tehsils muslims were 60% and above. but battala and gurdaspur were handed over to india just because nehru wanted a landlink to india . even MJ Akbar accepts that nehru prevailed over mountbatten to get gurdaspur distruct . i have already mentioned Ferozepure and zira,jalandhar,ajnala. patiala , kapurthala ,chamba states were 60% muslims but had sikh rulers who acceded to india. in bengal too there was great deal of gerrymandering by mountbatten . i will present complete details tommorow. u insist on lying. Amritsar was 46% muslim . infact muslims were the largest community there,only the combined number of sikhs and hindus was greater than 46% otherwise individually these communities were smaller than muslims numerically in amritsar.


The muder and massacre in east punjab was systematic , organized and completely state sponsored. The British head of boundary Force has clearly stated this in his memoirs"while memory serves". the cruelties in westpunjab were not systematic but more of a retaliation. after partition when kidnapped children and women were exchanged,16000 muslim women and children were recovered from indian punjab while a little over 8000 non-muslims were recovered from our side. this clearly shows who suffered more.

SOK,

(muslim league won the elections in 1946 in punjab .)

Rashid mian has not challenged that at all. His point is that it was only as LATE as 1946 that Punjab went over to the ML and Pakistan cause. Till that time the Unionists who were anti-Pak had ruled the roost.

(punjab's sacrifices )

What sacrifice? They merely gave up districts which were not Muslim majority to begin with. What sacrifice is involved in giving up what does not belong to you in the first place? Besides the West Punjabi Muslims gained a lot of land and property by looting the Hindus and Sikhs who left, they owned most of the land and property in West Punjab and Sind. Besides, while it is true that Punjabi Muslims in East Punjab suffered a lot (murder, rape and looting) they equally committed atrocities on Hindus and Sikhs in W Punjab. (Btw, I EQUALLY condemn atrocties by both sides) West Punjabi Muslims suffered nothing and gained a lot.

(Gurdaspur was 51% muslim )

Gurdaspur was 51% Muslim only if you falsely include Qadianis as Muslims. And as we all know (thanks to the preachings of Maulana Urstruly (pbuh)) that Qadianis are not Muslims. Gurdaspur was non-Muslim and belonged to India.

Regards

punjab never joined late. urduspeakers deliberately harp in this point in order to magnify their efforts in freedom struggle . muslim league won the elections in 1946 in punjab . the punjab assembly voted overwhelmingly ,infact all muslims members voted to divide the province . punjab's sacrifices are the biggest and most important. kashmir was never allowed to decide. the assembly that acceded to india in 1950s was a bogus assembly where most members were elected unopposed. nobody recognizes them .
You say that after independence pakistan told muslims in india to stay in india. There was no conception i repeat no conception of transfer of population in any speech of jinnah . In any case tell me can pakistan accomodate all the indian muslims?can we ? I still see lot of indian muslims marrying in pakistan and moving to pakistan . pakistan's first priority is its own original inhabitants and not distant cousins in UP,CP. The fact is that initially Muslim League was not even very popular in UP,CP. in 1937 elections it did not win the majority of seats reserved for muslims in UP,CP.

When i talk of IBA,LUMS, i am raising a totally valid point . I am talking about the complete superiority that urduspeakers have over sindhis because they control the cities. In India there are quotas RESERVED IN every college,university for lower caste hindus and people accept that . But when quotas are instituted in pakistan to help lift sindhis , urduspeakers start growling and complaining . The point is that Urduspeakers have no cause to complain . They are the most richest and prosperous community yet they have the audacity to declare partition a blunder, their organization MQM gets arms from india and is openly conspiring to break pakistan.On this website i see tons and tons of hatred pumped against punjab and its people by urduspeakers and mqm supporters.

Punjabi industrial class grew mainly after 1977. before that punjabis had negligible presence in trade,commerce and industry. Where did u get this list?? What is the source ?? Even if this list were to be believed , there is only 1 sindhi in it and 10 karachites. No correct estimate of asif zardari's wealth exists. infact although he is from sind,he is not sindhi but a seraiki settled in sindhi.

you had asked me earlier about the map of pakistan by US thinktanks. here is the
link:http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2006/06/1833899




The bottomline is that MQM is a terrorist organization that has ties with india. it has sworn to separate karachi . the bottomline is that karachites are determined to deny the sindhis their fair share of power in sind . We the rest of pakistan will no longerallow that . just you wait and see . very soon ashfaq kiyani who is a glorious punjabi will withdraw support from mush dehalvi . nawaz sharif and bb will oust mush . In Sind ,Mqm will be banned . Altaf Hussain and his thugs will be tried for May12 massacre . Any attempt by MQM to use violence will be most ruthlessly crushed .

Hey,

This article shows the paranoia of the ISI in PAkistan.
ISI is now witnessing a "counter-Jehad" against them- that is making them jittery- that is dangerous because ISI can very well smuggle a few bombs to Osama on a container to NY!!

Son of Kashmir:
I don't understand your logic.
Pakistan came into being voluntarily.
All the assemblies or ruler decided to join voluntarily because of your initial premise that all provinces joining will be autonomous. When people of Punjab joined (although late) they knew that they are joining Pakistan. Kashmir although never joined Pakistan and its assembly passed resolution to join India in 1954 or 1956, still Kashmiris were treated as if they are Pakistani (just because there was no plebiscite to find out what the people of Kashmir want).
Other thing after independence to prevent the flood of migrants Pakistan told Indian Muslims to stay in India.
Another thing because of Islamic relationship some states surrounded by India still decided to join Pakistan like Junagadh and Hyderabad.
There is no question that Memon and Chinioti businessmen contributed a great deal for the Industrialization of Pakistan, but as I told even at middle businessman level it is the growth of cities in Punjab like Faisalabad, Gujrat, Gujranwala, and not in any other province. Which suggest that business mainly grew in Punjab. On another level I will give you the current list of most rich people in Pakistan and you will see how the relationship has changed.

1 - Mian Muhammad Mansha Yaha Pakistan
Ranking: 1 Worth: £1.25b ($2.5billion)Industry: Businessman

2 - Asif Ali Zardari Pakistan
Ranking: 2 Worth: £900m ($1.8billion) Industry: Politics

3 - Sir Anwar Pervaiz UK
Ranking: 3 Worth: £750m ($1.5billion) Industry: Businessman

4 - Nawaz Sharif & Shahbaz Sharif family Saudi Arabia/Pakistan
Ranking: 4 Worth: £700m ($1.4billion) Industry: Politics/Businessman

5 - Saddaruddin Hashwani Pakistan
Ranking: 5 Worth: £550m ($1.1billion) Industry: Businessman

6 - Nasir Schon & family U.A.E/Pakistan
Ranking: 6 (tied at 6) Worth: £500m ($1billion) Industry: Businessman

7 - Abdul Razzaq Yakoub & family U.A.E
Ranking: 6 (tied at 6) Worth: £500m ($1billion) Industry: Businessman

8 - Rafiq Habib & Rasheed Habib Pakistan
Ranking: 7 Worth: £450m ($900) Industry: Businessman

9 - Tariq Saigol & Nasim Saigol Pakistan
Ranking: 8 Worth: £425m ($850) Industry: Businessman

10 - Dewan Yousaf Farooqui Pakistan
Ranking: 9 (tied at 9) Worth: £400m ($800) Industry: Businessman

11 - Sultan Ali Lakhani & family Pakistan
Ranking: 9 (tied at 9) Worth: £400m ($800) Industry: Businessman

13 - Sheikh Abid Hussain alias Seth Abid Pakistan
Ranking: 10 Worth: £390m ($780) Industry: Businessman

14 - Mian Mohammed Latif Pakistan
Ranking:11 Worth: £350m ($700) Industry: Businessman

15 - Haji Abdul Ghafoor & Haji Bashir Ahmed Pakistan
Ranking: 12 Worth: £330m ($660) Industry: Businessman

16 - Sheikhani Family Pakistan
Ranking: 13 Worth: £300m ($600) Industry: Businessman

17 - Razzaq Dawood Pakistan/UAE
Ranking: 14 (tied at 14) Worth: £250m ($500) Industry: Businessman

18 - Byram Dinshawji Avari Pakistan
Ranking: 14 (tied at 14) Worth: £250m ($500) Industry: Businessman

Anyway you can see the list and is about the same.
The important thing is how much the common man benefited from being rich from Karachi or Punjab.
On another count most of these businessman are National or Multinational, for example Urdu speaking Mohajir has business in Punjab, and Punjabi speaking businessman has business in Karachi. Whatever way you argue important thing is equitable distribution and development of all parts of Pakistan.

As far as Urdu speaking vs Sindhi speaking in LUMS and IBA they have their own exam and merit and are private institutions. What is the point. For your information hailing in Karachi does not mean Mohajir, there are Punjabi, Pathan, Sindhi etc who compete together.
Lets take this discussion on another board.
I am putting the list of Pakistan top 10 rich on that forum, so you know which board to go to.

Interesting analysis.I agree that Ahmad Qureshi has made some wild assertions.However as I see it the USA as Marx said may not be creating history but it makes use of a situation that it inherits.Like it made use of 9/11 to occupy Afghanistan......a great strategic attack .....larger in dimension than Operation Barbarossa!About the Zia crash I have some observations ! While reading declassified CIA archives from the CIA History Staff I came upon a passge of the CIA reports in 1997 ...." after the Soviet withdrawal US relations with Zia will become complicated" ! As an officer of the 1st Armoured Division when Zia crash occurred I also met many direct witnesses in 1988 including the major who was incharge of despatching the dead bodies by air ! The major stated that while alive Zia's arrival brought every one to the airport but on despatch he had few soldiers with clothes tied on face to avoid the stench.Even the official Airforce report stated sabotage to be the cause.The incident could be a CIA operation or a KGB operation.General Zia was not toeing the American line.In this scenario US relations with the Musharraf regime are good.However it appears that they want Benazir in the future power set up.Perhaps they hope that Benazir will be able to deliver.Although with Benazir's team as it stands I have grave doubts if she can deliver ! This is the pattern in history ! The English East India Company also first used local collaborators and once they outlived their utility the English stepped in ! Sooner or later the Americans will physically intervene ! This is why they made Afghanistan their base of operations ! Its going to be a very complicated,bloody and sticky affair ! The line between right and wrong would be blurred ! A confusion in principle has already been introduced ! Generals have forgiven the corruption of politicians and politicans have also forgiven te general.The elite is the same ! Both the civil and military first collaborated with the British an are collaborating with the Americans since 1947.The policy was initiated by Jinnah.The same story as Punjab collaboration of 1857 and now the collaboration with USA.Pakistan was not created for the common man.

Re: # 143:-- I am referring to Son of Kashmir saying that Qadiani treachery was instrumental in Gurdaspurs accession to India ! May be he thinks that Mountbatten was a Qadiani !

How can you prove Qadiani treachery ? Its a conspiracy theory gone mad ! Were all the Muslim soldiers from Punjab who collaborated with the British against Muslims in 1857 or against the tribal Pashtuns Qadianis ?

Ayub Khan was a Pathan by race only.Linguistically and culturally he was a Punjabi.It should be noted that in 1946 only 5 % of India's population was the vote bank.The Punjabi feudal members of the Unionist Party joined the Muslim League in between 1942 and 1945 in large numbers because they were in heavy debt to Hindu money lenders.The Memon Muslims of Bombay and Gujrat financed the Muslim League because they could not compete with the Hindu business men.The Hindustani Muslims also voted for Muslim League because they ccould not compete with Hindus in the ICA.Out of 87 Muslims in all India between 1900 and 1944 only 28 out of 87 had cleared the ICS exam.The rest came on Muslim quota without passing te ICS exam .

Mr.RASHID

I do not know why you bring in Sir Sikander Hayat Khan . He died in 1942 . The bottomline is that by the time elections were held in 1946, Punjabi muslims had turned towards Pakistan.Thats what counts . Had Punjab not sacrificed , there would be no pakistan . End of story.

So do not complain that Punjab takes away the tax revenue of karachi , do not complain that most soldiers are from punjab . We went through fire and hell . Do u know that the forced migration in punjab was the greatest migration in human history?

You had earlier denied the fact that Urduspeakers and Karachites control the country's industrial wealth . I stand by my assertion that Karachites have far greater wealth than that they deserve according to their population. Today an article has been published in Dawn newspaper"People who own greatest amount of wealth''. First it lists the 19 OUT OF 22 families of pre-1971 era. many of these are Karachites. Infact it was Karachi and the Urduspeaking Buisnesss elite that was responsible for the economic exploitation of bengal . The bengalis used to blame punjabis for economic exploitation but the fact was the exploitation was being done by Karachites . WHEN THIS list of 22 families was revealed by Dr. mahbub-ulhaq he was kicked out of the cabinet by the pathan Ayub Khan . And Mind you ,Mahbub-ul-haq was a punjabi!

The DAWN Article also list the names of the current 40 richest families. Again large number of them are karachites like: Hashoo, Habib,Dewan lakson,bawany,arif habib,dadhabhoy tapal,seth abid,tabani,sheikhani. I frankly admit that in this list there are many families from punjab . But then that's that . Punjab is 55 % of the population of pakiland and it will only be natural that they will have great presence in industry . But what about Karachites?? You are no more than 7-8% of country's population but you shares of industrial wealth is 5-6 times more than your due share . There is not a single i repeat a single sindhi industrial group in both the 1968 list and the New list . Similarly there is no baluchi . If any one has the right to complain it is sindhis and baluchis and not yu guys. Do you know that less than 10 percent of IBA students are Sindhis , that the Karachites and Urduspeakers outnumber sindhis by 10 to 1 in LUMS.Despite all this , you still want to bring in biharis from bangladesh? Q

Then there is a book ''The Industrial Concentration and Economic power in Pakistan" written by a gora Lawrence White . This book has different figures but the conclusion is the same . In 1970, 42 groups controlled trade and industry . Of these 24 were from Karachi 12 were from punjab ,5 were from NWFP. iN 1997, 45 FAMILIES controlled trade and industry . Of these 24 were from punjab ,18 were from karachi and 3 from NWFP. iF YOU WANT TO KNOW more about this , check this link

http://richpaki.tripod.com/whoowns.htm

One of the reasons why karachites hate ppp is that its nationalization broke their monoply over trade and industry . Zia finished bhutto but even he is disliked by karachites because he generously pampered the punjabi industrialist . it was during his time that Ittefaq grouo, chaudhry shujjat group emerged . Despite that karachites still own large share of industrial wealth . And when it comes to stock exchange and property market and media , there KARACHITES completely dominate . Infact Musharafs govt studiously avoided taxing stockexchange and real estate . I hope and pray that when nawaz sharif or benazir take over and mush is gone , these 2 sectors are throughly taxed and the stock market crash scandal is thoroughly investigated and those caught punished INSHALLAH TALLAH!

Gurdaspur was 51% muslim 4 percent christain , 4 percent qadianis and rest was hindusikh . had it not been for qadiani treachery , the division might have gone to us . fEROZEPUR ,ZIRA.ajnala,jalandhar

Sonof Kashmir.
{At the time of partition , Muslim people of NWFP and Punjab had come out vehemently in favor of Pakistan . Check your facts . In 1946 election ,Muslim League won 75 out of the 86 seats reserved for muslims in the punjab assembly.}

{Punjab’s Pakistan
By RSN Singh
Issue: Vol 22.4The part that constitutes the Punjab province in Pakistan, like other provinces of Sindh, NWFP and Balochistan, were not enthusiastic about the concept of Pakistan. It was much later, in the early 1940s, that the Muslim League made strong inroads into Sindh and Punjab. Finally, when they did decide to join the Pakistan Movement, their aspirations and motivations differed from that of the mohajirs and Jinnah. Jinnah acutely realised that Punjab was central to his idea of Pakistan. The undivided Punjab province had 56.2 percent Muslims. The Muslim League was a negligible force in the 1936-37 elections. It had won only one seat out of 84 Muslim seats in the province. Determined to make inroads into Punjab, Jinnah entered into a pact (known as the Jinnah-Sikander Pact) with the ruling Unionist Party leader Sir Sikander Hyat Khan. According to the pact, Sir Sikander conceded to Jinnah’s claim of being the sole spokesman of Indian Muslims, and in turn, Jinnah promised not to interfere in the politics of Punjab. Taking advantage of the pact-an indirect foothold in the province-Jinnah chose Punjab to declare the famous Lahore Resolution in March 1940, which categorically envisaged the creation of an independent and sovereign Muslims state. Sir Sikander resented the resolution, but could not bring himself to oppose it publicly, thus the Unionist Party became a party to it.1 The Unionist Party’s dominance in Punjab began to wane after the death of Sir Sikander in 1942 and resulted in the consequent rise of Jinnah.

In the annual session of the Muslim League in Delhi in 1943, Jinnah said, “I regret to say that the Punjab has not yet played the part it ought to play, and is entitled to play because remember Punjab is the corner stone of Pakistan. I particularly appeal to the delegates of Punjab, when you go back please - I would not say anything more - please substitute the love of Islam and your nation in the place of sectional interest, jealousies, tribal notions and selfishness.”2 Jinnah by political machinations further undermined the Unionist ministry of Khizar Hayat Khan Tiwana and ensured the rapid ascendance of the Muslim League in Punjab between 1944 and 1947. He resorted to rabid and unabashed use of Islam and its symbols. Jinnah targeted the critical political constituency of the Unionist Party, i.e. the Muslim landed elite, the pirs (sufi saints) and Sajjada-Nashin (custodians of sufi shrines). As a result, the Hindus and the Sikhs gravitated towards the Congress in large numbers. The divide increasingly became irreconcilable. In the 1946 provincial elections, the Muslim League won 75 of the 86 Muslim seats in Punjab. The Congress and Akali Dal won 57 (56.8 percent in general con-stituencies) and 21 (40.7 percent in Sikh constituencies) seats respectively. A coalition government of Unionists-Akali Dal-Congress under Tiwana came to power. Under intense pressure and deteriorating political situation, Tiwana resigned in March 1947, thus finally paving the way for Pakistan.}

{The next year (sic 1941), Sikander made plain in the Provincial Assembly, on March 11, that his conception of Pakistan differed fundamentally from Jinnah's; "A Muslim Raj here and a Hindu Raj elsewhere, if that is what Pakistan means, I will have nothing to do with it." He was opposed to the partition of India. ) Frontline March 2005

(Following independence, the NWFP voted to join Pakistan in a referendum in 1947.} Wikipedia

{I am refferring to Allama Iqbal who presented the idea of Pakistan in a session of Muslim League in Allahabad in 1930. It was a punjabi student who first came up with the name 'Pakistan'' Chaudhry Rahmat Ali in 1933. Punjabi Muslims gave the greatest sacrifices to make Pakistan possible. In order to make Pakistan possible , Punjab agrreed to its division . It lost several muslim majority districts ,Gurdaspur,Bata,Ajnala,Jalandhar,Batala, Ferozepure,Zira to India thanks to Mountbatten's manipulation.In order to make Pakistan possible ,Punjab had to part with its 3 rivers . In a space of just 10 weeks, 8 million muslims from east punjab were uprooted, 75000 muslims were raped, 2000 muslim women were kidnapped and sold into slavery}

Agreed.

{Yet inspite of these sacrifices there are mischievious people especially in karachi who deny this and say that it was the urduspeakers who made pakistan possible}

Pakistan would not be possible without so called Urdu speaking. Particularly Jinnah made possible the dream of Pakistan. There is no question that Pakistan would not be possible without the parts now comprising Pakistan anyway. But politics of these regions would not give an outlook of Pan Islamism to the political leaders of these areas (meaning Unionist party etc)

{The division of India was actually division of punjab and bengal . in bengal no violence took place thanks to the efforts of suharwardy and gandhi . but in punjab,hell broke loose}
That is true and it also depended on leadership of Bengal.

(Finally there was a referendum in NWFP before partition in July 1947 . People of NWFP were asked whether they wanted to join India or Pakistan and they voted 97 % for Pakistan}
Agree.

135#Sonof kashmir.
Have you seen Liyari, Lea Market and Timber market. It is likely administrative.

The Pakistanis are in the habit of blaming the Indians for every wrong thing.The Bengalis were the majority Muslims but first they were sidelined by the Hindustani Muslims who despite being a minority dominated the All India Muslim League from 1906 to 1951.Later they were sidelined by the Punjabi Muslims who dominated Pakistani politics because of having acquired a strong position in the army by collaborating with the British from 1857 to 1947.

The BLA and Baitullah Mahsud are a natural result of a series of injustices perpetrated on the tribal and Baloch Muslims.

The Pashtuns were used by Zia as cannon fodder in the Afghan War d the result is the present crisis in NWFP.

The Pakistan Army is the best and most reliable collaborator of USA , so why should make any plan to topple it ? See the army's role in 1857, in 1930, in 1942.Except the Ranghar Muslims,Afridis,Wazirs and Mahsuds who fought against the British ?

Sonofkashmir,

(At the time of partition , Muslim people of NWFP and Punjab had come out vehemently in favor of Pakistan.)

Very true. But the demand for partition had first been popularised by Bengalis and minority province Muslims, not Punjus/Pathans. They were very late converts to Pakistan.

(In order to make Pakistan possible , Punjab agrreed to its division.)

So did Bengal. And why not? Afterall if India had to be divided on Hindu-Muslims grounds, why not Punjab and Bengal? If it is OK to divide a nation on religious grounds so is it to divide a province.

(It lost several muslim majority districts , Gurdaspur etc. )

Only Gurdaspur distt. was Muslim majority and that too only if you include Ahmedis as Muslims and as we all know Ahmedis are not Muslims.


(thanks to Mountbatten's manipulation.)

Is it the Injuns fault that MAJ (pbuh) called himself a rose and Lord and Lady M two thorns?

(in bengal no violence took place thanks to the efforts of suharwardy and gandhi.)

You mention MKG as one of the persons who prevented violence? Wait till YLH hears it and then you've had it!!!

Regards

On lyari

http://www.dawn.com/2005/08/02/local11.htm

I am quoting from this article "Under the new local body system, the locality has been given the status of a town, but its commercial areas including Lea Market and Timber Market have been excluded from its limits, thereby depriving the town of its main revenue earners.''

At the time of partition , Muslim people of NWFP and Punjab had come out vehemently in favor of Pakistan . Check your facts . In 1946 election ,Muslim League won 75 out of the 86 seats reserved for muslims in the punjab assembly. It was a poet from Punjab who first came up with the idea of pakistan. I am refferring to Allama Iqbal who presented the idea of Pakistan in a session of Muslim League in Allahabad in 1930. It was a punjabi student who first came up with the name 'Pakistan'' Chaudhry Rahmat Ali in 1933. Punjabi Muslims gave the greatest sacrifices to make Pakistan possible. In order to make Pakistan possible , Punjab agrreed to its division . It lost several muslim majority districts ,Gurdaspur,Bata,Ajnala,Jalandhar,Batala, Ferozepure,Zira to India thanks to Mountbatten's manipulation.In order to make Pakistan possible ,Punjab had to part with its 3 rivers . In a space of just 10 weeks, 8 million muslims from east punjab were uprooted, 75000 muslims were raped, 2000 muslim women were kidnapped and sold into slavery . Yet inspite of these sacrifices there are mischievious people especially in karachi who deny this and say that it was the urduspeakers who made pakistan possible . The division of India was actually division of punjab and bengal . in bengal no violence took place thanks to the efforts of suharwardy and gandhi . but in punjab,hell broke loose. There were just 1.5 million refuggees from UP,CP but from punjab there were 8 million refuggees. There are today only around 1 lac muslims in Indian punjab but there are TODAY crores of muslims living in UP and CP.

Finally there was a referendum in NWFP before partition in July 1947 . People of NWFP were asked whether they wanted to join India or Pakistan and they voted 97 % for Pakistan .

Rashid mian,

(Even at the time of creation of Pakistan many Muslims did not believe in Pakistan. Only two assemblies passed the resolution of Pakistan.)

Correct you are. The Pakistan movement actually did not find much support in what is now Pakistan except in Sind- the main demand for Pakistan came from Muslims of minority areas and also from Bengal. Punjab, NWFP and B'stan were very late and reluctant converts to the Pakistan idea and incidentally so were the Islamists, a fact which is often glossed over.

Regards

{Geo is will of Pakistan .Musharaf Dehalvi is hated by Pakistan. Don’t worry for we the sons of soil will soon throw this devil out.}
This is your personal opinion, so no comment.

{Now for the reply. Jinnahpur is Not a mere fiction but a reality. No Punjabi, kashmiri, sindhi,pathan ,baluchi considers it a work of fiction .If a survey is done amongst sindhis, they would with one voice say that Jinnahpur plan of MQM still exists and MQM is busy working on it . Infact MQM has already done most of the homework}

That is also your opinion. No facts to show.

(In the maps being published by US thinktanks, Pakistan has been broken-up into several entities.Punjab and rural Sind have been lumped together while Karachi is a separate state.}

First thing where is the reference. Is it one opinion or is it the opinion of department of state or defense.

{Urdu speaking from Karachi by the name of SYED JAMALUDDIN has written a book called Divide Pakistan to eliminate Terrorism. He ran 20 sec adds on CNN to promote this book. In this book, he openly calls for dividing Pakistan and making Karachi a separate independent state. (http://www.petitiononline.com/PAK47/petition.html)}

Anybody can write any book, does not mean that it reflects the policy of MQM. Why does it not reflect the policy of JamateIslami or PPP or Muslim League (N)as many Mohajirs are in those party also.

{Most importantly, the great leader of MQM Altaf Bhai has openly called “ Pakistan the greatest blunder in history of mankind’’ . He said that in DELHI and his speech was aired by GEO . His speech is available at Utube. This was one of the reasons that MQM was very happy when Geo was banned. There have been nationalists leaders in Pakistan like GM.Syed ,Wali Khan but none of them went to Delhi and called partition the greatest blunder. And you expect us to view Jinnahpur plan as fiction???}
That opinion is not singled out for Altaf Hussain. Even at the time of creation of Pakistan many Muslims did not believe in Pakistan. Even Unionist Government in Punjab was reluctant to accept the proposal of Pakistan till very end. And to counter Ghaffar Khan, Qayyum Khan was brought in NWFP, but Ghaffar Khan's party in Government at that time did not accept the proposal of Pakistan.
Only two assemblies passed the resolution of Pakistan. One has already been seperated in the name of Bangladesh and other was Sind with Bhuttos father Shahnawaz Bhutto and G.M.Syed some big names. Also how much history of Wali Khan and G.M. Syed you know because your assertion are not true.
If you know that when MQM was in its infancy Jang group has been vehemently opposed to it and was supporting Jamate Islami. And there has been friction between MQM and Jang. The reason is same as now. Jang or Geo thinks that because it is media it can make or break someone, rather than being fair and impartial. So it is partiality of Jang Group rather than fair reporting which has pitted it against Musharraf Government this time.

{Last 5 years has seen MQM busy working on Jinnahpur. They have separated the Urban areas completely from rest of Sind.Now there is an MQM Nazim in Hyderabad. In Karachi the commercial areas of Non-Mohajir localities like Lyari have been separated and attached to mohajir areas.}

This is your assertion. If you think only Karachi and Hyderabad are Urban areas of Sind and MQM is present in these two cities only. You are wrong. They are present in Sukkur and MirpurKhas also as far as I know (and may be more). Now if Nazim of Hyderabad is from MQM. You will ask why Nazim of Peshawar is from MMA. What is the point. As far as matter of Lyari, would you care to explain which COMMERCIAL AREA of Liyari is seperated. .

(All important ministries in Sind were handed to Urdu speakers.)
What is the point. Chief Minister is from Muslim League (Q). He has appointed ministers for his Government.

(Do you know that Baluchistan assembly passed a resolution with heavy majority in summer this year against the building of a new port at somiani. MQM minister for ports and shipping Babur Ghauri had announced building of a new port there . Members of Baluch assembly openly said that this was an attempt to build a coastal province for Urduspeakers by Karachi}

I have no information.

(Do you know that most of the land in Gawadar has been acquired and bought by investors from Karachi.It is only matter of time before Karachites flood Gawadar and turn Baluchis into minority. Today most Baluchis have forgotten the anger against punjabis are and focused on Urdu-Speakers.}

This is your opinion or you have any facts.

(You have raised a valid point that why Serakis are not slaughtered when they ask for separate province. The reason is that Seraikis do not go to India to ask for weapons, their leaders don’t go to New Delhi and declare partition the greatest blunder, they don’t spew venom against punjabis, they don’t pass resolutions asking for ban on entry of other communities in Seraiki Districts.}

It is not as you said. Taj Langah has worked all along with all the nationalist elements in Baluchistan, who are being killed by Army. Why the Army is killing those Baluch leaders.
If you know that Karachi has much more diversity of population with people from all parts of Pakistan, than any other city including any Seraiki city. You are confusing two periods of MQM history. One is when it was Mohajir Qaumi movement and as the name indicates it was as ethnic as Punjabi Medicos, Pukhtoon Student federation and Sindhi Medicos or Punjabi Pukhtoon Ittehad etc. Now MQM is a national party Muttahida Qaumi movement with Baluch, Sindhi, Punjabi, Pathan all part of it.

(they don’t pass resolutions asking for ban on entry of other communities in Seraiki Districts. In 2005, an MQM member moved a resolution in Sind assembly asking the Sind Govt.to call upon the Multinationals in karachi to give preference to job applicants with a karachi domicile. When Nisar Khurou asked that the words Karachi domicile be replaced with sindhi domicile, he was snubbed . In the end the resolution was passed unopposed and every MQM member voted yes for it .(So much for a liberal progressive party))

These are Assembly resolutions as you say, so easy to retrieve and you know the year also. Can you cite the resolution.

(Similarly Lot of pathans want NWFP renamed as Pukhtunistan.Nawaz Sharif had a very close political alliance with ANP in 90’s. His relations with Wali Khan Family were cordial. But when ANP insisted on renaming NWFP, Nawaz Sharif parted ways with ANP.}

Nawaz sharif came in Politics in mid 80's. Pakhtunistan demand by ANP is even before 1970. So how come he joined then parted way on the basis of Pakhtunistan.

{Similarly there are pathans in Baluchistan who want the pathan areas to be separated from Baluchistan and joined to NWFP. There leader is Mahmud Khan Achakzai . But has their wish been granted? In Pakistan no ethnic demands will be met, no matter what. Because it will break-up the country on ethnic lines. We the rest of pakistan will never recognize Officially Mohajirs as separate nation on par with punjabis ,sindhis. Because since every community must have a province, we will have to grant mohajirs a province. Infact this will be a logical development . We will never break Sind.}

So if you mean that for administrative purposes creation of new provinces will break up the country. You know that in the beginnig when ONE UNIT was there there were 2 units West Pakistan and East Pakistan. Also there is a proposal and has been proposal to divide Pakistan into sixteen administrative unit. How does it break the country is beyond comprehension. Did India break when Jharkand seperated from Bihar or haryana from Punjab. MQM does not demand a new province anyway.

I have lot of official work to do . My earlier reply was washed out . I will send my complete reply in bits and peaces over a period of time.
No Comments except 'peaces' should be pieces.

Hello

Geo is will of Pakistan .Musharaf Dehalvi is hated by Pakistan. Don’t worry for we the sons of soil will soon throw this devil out.

Now for the reply. Jinnahpur is Not a mere fiction but a reality. No Punjabi, kashmiri, sindhi,pathan ,baluchi considers it a work of fiction .If a survey is done amongst sindhis, they would with one voice say that Jinnahpur plan of MQM still exists and MQM is busy working on it . Infact MQM has already done most of the homework.

In the maps being published by US thinktanks, Pakistan has been broken-up into several entities.Punjab and rural Sind have been lumped together while Karachi is a separate state. An Urdu speaking from Karachi by the name of SYED JAMALUDDIN has written a book called Divide Pakistan to eliminate Terrorism. He ran 20 sec adds on CNN to promote this book. In this book, he openly calls for dividing Pakistan and making Karachi a separate independent state. (http://www.petitiononline.com/PAK47/petition.html)

Most importantly, the great leader of MQM Altaf Bhai has openly called “ Pakistan the greatest blunder in history of mankind’’ . He said that in DELHI and his speech was aired by GEO . His speech is available at Utube. This was one of the reasons that MQM was very happy when Geo was banned. There have been nationalists leaders in Pakistan like GM.Syed ,Wali Khan but none of them went to Delhi and called partition the greatest blunder. And you expect us to view Jinnahpur plan as fiction???

Last 5 years has seen MQM busy working on Jinnahpur. They have separated the Urban areas completely from rest of Sind.Now there is an MQM Nazim in Hyderabad. In Karachi the commercial areas of Non-Mohajir localities like Lyari have been separated and attached to mohajir areas. All important ministries in Sind were handed to Urdu speakers. Do you know that Baluchistan assembly passed a resolution with heavy majority in summer this year against the building of a new port at somiani. MQM minister for ports and shipping Babur Ghauri had announced building of a new port there . Members of Baluch assembly openly said that this was an attempt to build a coastal province for Urduspeakers by Karachi. Do you know that most of the land in Gawadar has been acquired and bought by investors from Karachi.It is only matter of time before Karachites flood Gawadar and turn Baluchis into minority. Today most Baluchis have forgotten the anger against punjabis are and focused on Urdu-Speakers.

You have raised a valid point that why Serakis are not slaughtered when they ask for separate province. The reason is that Seraikis do not go to India to ask for weapons, their leaders don’t go to New Delhi and declare partition the greatest blunder, they don’t spew venom against punjabis, they don’t pass resolutions asking for ban on entry of other communities in Seraiki Districts. In 2005, an MQM member moved a resolution in Sind assembly asking the Sind Govt.to call upon the Multinationals in karachi to give preference to job applicants with a karachi domicile. When Nisar Khurou asked that the words Karachi domicile be replaced with sindhi domicile, he was snubbed . In the end the resolution was passed unopposed and every MQM member voted yes for it .(So much for a liberal progressive party)


Similarly Lot of pathans want NWFP renamed as Pukhtunistan.Nawaz Sharif had a very close political alliance with ANP in 90’s. His relations with Wali Khan Family were cordial. But when ANP insisted on renaming NWFP, Nawaz Sharif parted ways with ANP. Similarly there are pathans in Baluchistan who want the pathan areas to be separated from Baluchistan and joined to NWFP. There leader is Mahmud Khan Achakzai . But has their wish been granted? In Pakistan no ethnic demands will be met, no matter what. Because it will break-up the country on ethnic lines. We the rest of pakistan will never recognize Officially Mohajirs as separate nation on par with punjabis ,sindhis. Because since every community must have a province, we will have to grant mohajirs a province. Infact this will be a logical development . We will never break Sind.

I have lot of official work to do . My earlier reply was washed out . I will send my complete reply in bits and peaces over a period of time.

sonof Kashmir:129
It is not a matter of hurting. It is a matter of putting the record straight.
I would definitely like to know the opinions. It is important to dissect the real matter from opinions.

Dear Mr.Rashid

I spend nearly 45 minutes on drafting a reply but then i hit a wrong button and it washed off. it has left me very depressed . this has happened second time in 2 days . now i wikl send a reply in or 2 days but i will send one . do not worry. i never run from an intellectual debate . i hate physical violence of any sort and if u have suffered,then accept apologies from me on behalf of northern pakistan.

Geo is an extremely biased and one-dimensional channel. It represents the old ways of agitation and mischief. Geo loop video of 10 man protests from a close angle all day, and pump people to go on the streets and damage Pakistan. We all know what Allah says in surah 5 al-ma’idah: ‘Those who…do mischief in the land shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land’. Geo should thank Musharraf he only exiled geo from the land. But of course gew is enemy of Islam and of Pakistan. They don’t even recognise the present gov. gave them their rights to broadcast, because this would mean they would have to accept that the present gov. has done a lot of good things for Pakistan. Pakistan ko Jeeneh doh Geo!

Sonof Kashmir:
It is a known fact that to start a campaign against Mohajir community (As although I did not belonged to MQM I also suffered), a map of Jinnahpur was published by agencies in Jang newspaper and state terrorism was started against Mohajir Community .
Let me ask you why not the Seraiki were slaughtered when they demanded a seperate status and province. How come Punjab has Seraiki, potohari, Kashmiri etc and still be one province. Howcome Baluchistan has Pathan, baluch, Brohi etc and still be one province, but if Mohajir are accepted as seperate community it will result in disintegeration of Pakistan.
The points you are raising is valid. But they are as superficial as some Indian counterpart telling about Abul Kalam as president of India and premji businessman as example of prosperity and advancement of Indian Muslims.
More important than this are issues. The finance commission award is distributed on the basis of population and not on the basis of who has generated the wealth. Do you think it is fair. It is only fair if we are one nation. If not why would anybody share his wealth with his neighbour.
Apart from debt servicing, biggest expense is on Army. Why should we put our hard earned income in Armed forces preponderance of which goes to Punjab, if we are not one nation.
As far as Industrial sector dominated by Mohajir community, keep your facts straight. Even look at the composition of Industries and election of their office bearer in Karachi Chamber of commerce (and I am not talking about Lahore, Faisalabad, Gujrat and Gujranwala).
As far as Urdu being imposed on Bengalis by Urdu speaking. You have absolutely no sense of history and creation of Pakistan. It was Jinnah (who was Gujrati and English speaking and not Urdu ) who was the undistuputed leader of all parts of Pakistan. And Bengal was the province which gave unanimous support to him in contradistinction to the parts comprising West Pakistan. After religion which was the reason for creation of Pakistan. In his wisdom Pakistan needed to be one nation. So the next step was lingua franca which is Urdu. If you know the history of Urdu you will be knowing that it did not belong to Dehli but came into being by the interaction of different invaders from Afghanistan and local people and includes substantial amount Turkish, persian and Arabic words due to that. It was lingua franca. It happened that since the capital of that Turkish, Afghan, Mongol dynasty (and others before) was Dehli and so the support of Urdu in Dehli.
If you are really son of Kashmir you should be ashamed.
Kashmir has never decided to join Pakistan. Still Kashmiris are as much part and parcel of Pakistan and accepted as such. Even that famous drinker and your Urdu speaking pork eater told that Kashmir is the Main Artery of Pakistan.
The Biharis in Bangladesh say that they have sacrificed for Pakistan and not Bangladesh. (And did it twice one in 1947 and one in 1971). If they have emotional attachment to Pakistan, it is no surprise. You can disown them but don't blame them for their sacrifices. They have been fooled all along it seems. Disown them. But don't blame them for the foolishness of their attachment to Pakistan.
If you want to roll back back history, you can do it. Still you don't want to create an alternate history.

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Karachi sahib,

Could we have a deal? You take Arundhati Roy, Medha Patkar, Kuldeep Nayyar and assorted commies and mullahs from India. In return you give us Aunty Shamim, Begum Nawazish Ali, Rahat Fatah Ali Khan, Atif Aslam and some of those Geo TV reporters that my chowkie pals keep drooling over.

Fair exchange sahib?

Regards

123 Posted by majumdar

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050826/world.htm#6

Indian woman moves Pak court on visa issue

Islamabad, Aug 25
An Indian woman seeking Pakistani citizenship after getting married to her cousin here has moved the Peshawar High Court to restrain the government from taking any adverse action against her after her visa expired.

Afsina Bibi, who hails from Ahmedabad, got married to Arshid Mahmood, a Pakistani citizen in 1997. However, she came to Pakistan only in May. Her visit visa expired on August 19.

The woman applied for Pakistani citizenship on Tuesday and has now requested the court to restrain the government from taking any adverse action against her.

The Peshawar High Court on Tuesday put on notice the federal government and other respondents on the writ petition.

Bibi’s advocate told the court that the woman was legally entitled to get Pakistani citizenship under the Citizenship Act, local daily “Dawn” reported. — PTI

Karachi sahib,

OK, Indian.

(I personally know a few Muslim families who got their kids married here in Pakistan for this purpose. )

I hope they get what they want!!!

Regards

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120 Posted by majumdar

I don't know what an Injun mean? Please clarify?

Your other colleagues may have reasons to apply for "Paki" citizenship. I personally know a few Muslim families who got their kids married here in Pakistan for this purpose. Honest and no intent to malign anybody please.

Karachi sahib,

I am an Injun and my name is indeed Majumdar as at least three chowkies know!!! I see no reason to apply for a Paki citizenship.

Regards

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117 Posted by majumdar

that's alright. But again if you come forward with your true identity and not to pose yourself as a Pakistani when in fact you are indian and trying to malign my city and my country. If you would like to be a Pakistani, please apply for Pakistani citizenship, we may consider you.

Karachi sahib,

Who is to judge whether it is being done out of honesty or to advance devious ends. Nonetheless blanket abuse of any person or group based on nationality/race/religion/caste/language/gender/sexual orientation is highly reprehensible.

Regards

#111 Posted by harish_hyd

بولو اور جواب دو- سکول کو اردو مين مدرسہ کہتے ہين-

114 Posted by majumdar

As long as this is done with the right intent and not to advance your devious ends and to spew poison.

Tahmed sahib/Harishbhai,

One of the rights in a democratic society should be the right to bicker. As Churchill said jaw-jaw is better than war-war!!!

Regards

111 Posted by harish_hyd

نہين تم نے يہ بکواس نہين کي-

نہين تم نے يہ بکواس نہين کي-

harish: Any individual born and raised in the Indian sub-continent has an inalienable right to bicker!! So we Pakistanis can bicker as much as we want. :-)

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107 Posted by sonofkashmir

I request chowk editors to delete this post as it is advances rascit propaganda against my city and my country.

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Yaar you guys got Pakistan on the premise that Muslims needed a separate homeland for themselves and now you're bickering amongst yourselves. Isn't it the ultimate irony?

Mr.Madni

I appreciate your candor . you demand openly what mr.salim chauhan and MQM say between the lines. Unfortunately your demands can not be met . If the rest of pakistan recognizes you mohajir as nationality,then naturally we will have to break-up sind province .That would mean the end of pakistan. pakistan was formed for muslims of muslim majority regions and there was no conception of transfer of populations in it . As for MQM,it has been demanding a separate province since last 2 decades. Infact if it were to MQM and many Urdu-speakers, Karachi,Hyderabad would become a separate state . There is no punjabi,pathan,kashmiri who doubts this. In any case MQM tried its best and failed . The state forces brutally crushed the seccesion attempt under the orders of a sindhi premier. You MENTION imposition of Urdu on Bengalis that brokeup the country . Who was the one who imposed Urdu??Not Punjabis ,not pathans,not baluchis,not sindhis. Urdu is after all not their language . It was the Urduspeaking dominated Beuracracy and Muslim League who imposed Urdu. Infact when Bengali was given the status of a national language in 1956, Babai-Urdu Maulvi Abdul-Haq led a procession against it in karachi . So today in 21st century the rest of the country cant breakup pakistan once again by dividing Sind . Any attempt by any emtiety to separate Karachi from Pakistan will be put down most cruelly by rest of pakistan. There will be no more 71s. As for biharis ,that is a non-issue . We dont want sindhis to take up arms against the state . they will not simply sit back and be allowed to turn into red-indians. They are very assertive of theur rights . Remember what happened when mush dehalvi tried building kalabagh dam??He was forced to back down within 3 weeks after all of his closes sindhi ministers threatened to resign. Bihari issue is an even more emotive issue than kalabagh dam . Bangladeshis are better muslims than us. They have offered biharis citizenship 4 times . The younger generation of biharis speak bengali . We should negotiate with the banglaeshi govt.to offer them once citizenship once more . the boharis then should accept it.

Urdu-Speakers already dominate pakistan completely . THE corporate sector consists largeky of them.Most of the industrial wealth is held by urduspeakers. Several army,naval,air chiefs have been mohajirs. There were several mohajir chief justices of supreme court. During the last 5 years all power in Sind lay with urduspeakers. Despite haveing just 25% of seats in sind assembly,MQM had 50% of ministries including the most important ministries of finance and police.Sindhis despite being the majority population were handed over unimportant ministries like rural development. Why are you Urdu-Speakers not satisfied with what you have already got?Why?Why? Name me a single Sindhi industrialist of stature?Dont act like jews and keep on harping that just because our forefathers gave sacrifices,we are eternally entitled to special priveleges.

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Re: # 102 There also lots of sex envy by retarts as good looking punjabi and Sindhi women are marrying dark but prosperous, smart, foren gone or returned nice muhajir boys and crossing away from retards. Now sure they are marrying only good educated and with good jobs , as they feel they can get smart children,they will care for them, care for them when old, and if they die they will care for children and generally will not be practicing polygomy.any women have told me this and women are little smarter as they are not visual stimulated but women are mean and calculating so they marry also ugly, rich, famous and old. Lot of problem can be gone if Mohajirs are recognised and addressed as nationality now living in urban areas of Sindh.

Re: # 99... Lot of hatred problems will be solved if we pakistanis officially say as Mohajirs as NATIONALITY or urdu speaking Indian origin people are inclusive in nationalities or Ethinic groups like Punbaji and Sindhi ( both tetarts), baloachi, Kashmiri, pathan and Mohajirs all others. For gods sake bring all Biharis back once for all give one year free Border and help them to resettle where ever they want that is necessary if they be accorded full and equal citizenship, Sindhis will whine for month then will go their own way of life. Its better to solve problem by admitting to wrong done to Pakistani nationalist muslims and do not push MQM to go for extreme measures like finally they will outraged will ask for new province and if that happens no body can kill majority people of Karachi and hyderbad. This stupidity has no limits. After rise of Pakistan QAMA was obstinate tried to impose Urdu as National language on Bengalis and lead to dissection. The way majority is not conceding to little demands of minority people who are superior all other races of pakistan in achivement.

Re: # 89 Karachite

wah, wah ... bhunay huvay Qeemay ka mazA Aa gayA.

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Viqarm #88 {"Sadly, the house IS divided against itself, and very badly so....The nation cannot be galvanized merely by the wishes and statements of the political leaders. "}

Viqar Sahib,
Drust farmaaya aapne. You have so eloquently stated in two sentences what I could not say in a whole article. Thanks.

Aquaris #92, #93, #94,
Thank you for correcting the factual error. I had copies & pasted the "300 Biharis" number from Son Of Kashmir's boast that Najaaez Besharif had settle 300 Biharis in Punjab. Maybe he was using the notorious 100 to 1 ratio. :)

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Chowk Staff

Please delete two of the repeated posts , that was not intentional

Re: # 78

A Factual correction

"Repatriating 300 so-called "Biharis" is like kissing your sister. "


it were not 300 , the figure was 30,000
and Mian Chunun was the place , where all these were settled.

about 5000-or less of these are still there, the rest have ended up.....down south, as predicted .

but the good part it is ,the working bussiness chain, it has developed, most of these are now skilled workers, few of them now working in the Factories along the Lahore-sheikhupur road, as well as Lahore-faisalabad road,
also, many of them are now employed making Bags, Purses,Suitcases,Jackets with artificial/Rexine leather...etc..etc..etc.. in Shah Alami Lahore, and work on rotation basis , ...ie Father in Punjab, son in Karachi, mother in Mian Chunun, ....for they were given houses , mostly free or nearly free....so they own their properties, yet like I said, 25,000 or more of them are IN KARACHI....
..leaving behind just token pressence, and to safe guard the ownership of the houses given to them.

Period.

Re: # 78

A Factual correction

"Repatriating 300 so-called "Biharis" is like kissing your sister. "


it were not 300 , the figure was 30,000
and Mian Chunun was the place , where all these were settled.

about 5000-or less of these are still there, the rest have ended up.....down south, as predicted .