Feminism Under Veil
Nikhat Rasool December 3, 2007
#211 Posted by laddu on December 19, 2007 6:04:53 pm
Re: # 207
Dr Younus Sheikh was a well known apostate from India- a pride of modern muslims!!
Dr Younus Sheikh was a well known apostate from India- a pride of modern muslims!!
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#210 Posted by laddu on December 19, 2007 6:02:09 pm
Re: # 208
"Your statement.......is too brutal or impractical."
Exactly the point regarding chadars and hijabs....any way Islam is full of such 'impractical and brutal' solutions for assserting its collective sense of 'shame'.
"Your statement.......is too brutal or impractical."
Exactly the point regarding chadars and hijabs....any way Islam is full of such 'impractical and brutal' solutions for assserting its collective sense of 'shame'.
#209 Posted by mohar11 on December 19, 2007 9:08:32 am
Re: # 206 zee
dude, hanoods do not celebrate christmas... may be diwali time would be more appropriate... A lot of stuff goes up in smoke at that times anyway... :)
But the question is: why are YOU not worried about this momina-with-no-hijab situation?... Is killing such a momina sanctioned by the bedouin book? If no - then what's the plan for muslims who committing such sins?... If yes - then how do you save islam from these kafiroons who are denouncing the noble acts?...
Either way - you should be worried...
dude, hanoods do not celebrate christmas... may be diwali time would be more appropriate... A lot of stuff goes up in smoke at that times anyway... :)
But the question is: why are YOU not worried about this momina-with-no-hijab situation?... Is killing such a momina sanctioned by the bedouin book? If no - then what's the plan for muslims who committing such sins?... If yes - then how do you save islam from these kafiroons who are denouncing the noble acts?...
Either way - you should be worried...
#208 Posted by Kamath on December 19, 2007 6:01:17 am
Re: # 23
Your statement,"..How about blinding men so that they cannot view women with lust? How about making them wear male chastity belts as part of Islam so that they cannot rape women even if they want to??.." is too brutal or impractical.
Just installing blinkers like those around horses of Jutkas will do. Wa Salaam
Kamath
Your statement,"..How about blinding men so that they cannot view women with lust? How about making them wear male chastity belts as part of Islam so that they cannot rape women even if they want to??.." is too brutal or impractical.
Just installing blinkers like those around horses of Jutkas will do. Wa Salaam
Kamath
#207 Posted by Kamath on December 19, 2007 5:55:41 am
Re: # 21
Mian Laddu-Yar: You didn't mention who Dr Younus Shaikh is?
salaam
Kamath
Mian Laddu-Yar: You didn't mention who Dr Younus Shaikh is?
salaam
Kamath
#206 Posted by zeemax on December 19, 2007 5:42:55 am
Abey Laddu, why're you so concerned about mominas? Go and fill up some kitchen stoves to light up some brides. After all, it's Christmas season!
#205 Posted by laddu on December 19, 2007 4:39:18 am
On 11th of December, in Mississauga Canada, Aqsa, a 16 year old Canadian girl was choked to death by her Pakistani father, Muhammad Parvez, for not wearing hijab. “She wanted to live her life the way she wanted to, not the way her parents wanted her to,” her classmates told the reporters. “She just wanted to be herself, honestly she just wanted to show her beauty, and not be pushed around by her parents telling her what she has to be like, what she has to do. Nobody would want to do that.”
Yes, nobody would want to do that, but sadly many girls born in Islamic families are forced to do that.
One day after the death of Aqsa, I received an email from an 18 year old girl from UK. She said that she has been reading about Islam and had decided not to be a Muslim. However, her Muslim parents force her to wear hijab and her sister told her that if their mother learns about her views, “she would either kill you or she’ll kill herself”.
I sent her the story of Aqsa and what her father did to her. She wrote back and said, “What an animal! Anyways, I don’t think my mom cares about my beliefs, as long as I don’t have a boy friend, [and don’t] take off my hijaab.”
The truth is that Aqsa’s father was not an animal either. He was just a devout Muslim, who had worked hard and had built a nice home for his family in an upscale neighborhood. He was an ideal immigrant, a real “success story.” However, he had no choice but to kill his daughter. He did what he had to do. As one friend wrote, “In a way there are two victims in this case. This man like any other father must have loved, nurtured and cared for his daughter for years. It is so unfortunate that he finds himself turned into a monster that ate his own progeny.” Then this friend asked “What kind of ideology was it that turned a simple hard working family man into a revolting image of himself?”
What the westerners do not understand is that Muslims have different values, which are diametrically in contrast with western values. Western societies are guilt based. In guilt based societies individuals base their conduct on “right” and “wrong”. They try to do the right thing and if they do something wrong, they feel guilty. Muslim societies are shame based. In shame based societies individuals base their conduct on the opinion of others about them. What really counts is to look good. In shame cultures, if you do something wrong, as long as no one sees it and knows about it, you are okay. You can still keep your head high and act as an honorable member of the society. It is the image that you project of yourself that matters. You must do everything to protect that image. It is all about keeping the appearances.
In guilt societies, how you dress or don’t dress is your business. You can practice nudity and even promiscuity and have no shame. As long as you don’t violate someone else’s rights you can do whatever you like. Such a thing is inconceivable for Muslims who come from shame societies where everybody's life is the business of everybody else. This makes the western and Islamic cultures essentially incompatible. If this problem is not resolved soon, it will result is a major clash and dire consequences.
In a subsequent email my young British friend wrote, “My mom has noticed a change in me, ..and she said today, ‘I hope you haven’t done anything because so an so aunt will laugh.' Jesus! Who cares about so and so aunt who doesn’t even care about us?”
This is the crux of the problem. In Islamic societies people live in function of the opinion of others about them. That is the only thing that really matters to them. Muhammad Parvez was devastated by the fact that her 16 year old daughter wanted to dress like her classmates and show off her beauty. How could he look into the eyes of his Muslim friends with such a daughter? Muslims call western women “sluts” for not covering themselves. For Mr. Parvez his daughter’s western clothing was a major source of shame and dishonor. He had no choice but to kill her. There is hardly anything for which we humans are willing to die for, or kill, like our honor. This is far truer in shame based societies, where guilt plays virtually no role and everything revolves around shame and honor.
Millions of girls living in Muslim families in the west are abused, beaten and face death by their own loved ones because of honor. Don’t assume that these girls are the only victims. Their families are also victims. They are left with no choice, but to kill the apple of their own eyes. Everyone in these tragedies is a victim. It’s the government that is guilty!
The government is guilty for letting down its Muslim citizens and particularly its most vulnerable members, the Muslim girls. There was no need for Aqsa to die. If hijab was baned she would be alive today. If hijab is banned, no Muslim can look down at other Muslims for not observing it and no one will have to feel shame. Muslims hardy wear hijab or observe any Islamic custom when they live in places where there are few Muslims. They start behaving Islamicly when they congregate together and build their shame based communities.
The 20th century Pahlavi ruler, Reza Shah, knew how to handle this problem. He banned the chador (Iranian style of veil) in 1936. He ordered the police to arrest woman wearing chador and forcibly remove it. Although this policy outraged the mullahs, the average Iranians were relieved. The ban allowed them to be free without having to deal with the burden of shame. The historian Mir-Hosseini writes, “this move was welcomed by Westernized and upperclass men and women, who saw it in liberal terms as a first step in granting women their rights." She continues, 'between 1941 and 1979 wearing hejab [hijab] was no longer an offence, but it was a real hindrance to climbing the social ladder, a badge of backwardness and a marker of class. A headscarf, let alone the chador, prejudiced the chances of advancement in work and society not only of working women but also of men, who were increasingly expected to appear with their wives at social functions. Fashionable hotels and restaurants refused to admit women with chador, schools and universities actively discouraged the chador, although the headscarf was tolerated. It was common to see girls from traditional families, who had to leave home with the chador, arriving at school without it and then putting it on again on the way home'." (cited in El-Guindi 1999 pp. 174-175)
Despite his flaws, Reza Shah is hailed as the father of modern Persia by many Iranians because he banned the hijab. He was a Muslim and was keenly aware of the Muslim mind. He knew that only with the fist of the law Muslims can be rescued from their backward customs. He broke down the power and prestige of the clergy, discarded the Islamic law, closed down Islamic madrassahs, forbade religious processions, and replaced the Islamic calendar with the old Persian-Zoroastrian solar calendar. He prohibited the Islamic call to prayer and discouraged the pilgrimage to Mecca. He even forced the mullahs to shave, take off their robe and engage in honorable professions. The majority of Iranians welcomed his reforms. He was seen as a liberator. He set Iran free from the oppression of the culture of shame. It is this shame that inhibits Muslims to take the first step and stand out of the crowd. It is because of this shame that no reform can ever happen in Islamic societies unless it is imposed on them by force.
Western governments have a duty towards their Muslim citizens and particularly their women that traditionally have been the most disadvantaged members of Islamic societies. If hijab was banned in Canada Aqsa would be alive today and a hard working good father would not have had to choose between his daughter and his honor. The government failed both Aqsa and her father.
There are millions of Muslim families in western countries who share Parvezs' predicament. The girls in these families are under greater pressure and bigger danger than those living in Islamic countries. In Islamic countries everyone wears the same clothing. It is much easier for Muslim girls to conform and comply there than in the West where they are forced to be different. The government owes these girls protection.
Aqsa is dead. Her beauty will be devoured by a cold grave. That bud was nipped before blossoming. Will we let her death go in vain or will we ban hijab and set millions of Muslims free in her memory?
We must ban hijab, save innocent lives, end this abuse, and absolve the poor Muslim parents from having to make such difficult choices. Muslim parents are not animals. They are torn apart between the love of their children and their honor. Only the government can take that burden away. The only people who would not welcome this ban will be the mullahs who will see their power reduced. The average Muslims will be grateful and relieved, even though to keep the image of faithful believers, may publicly oppose the decision. .
Now that Muslims are living in the West in such a large numbers, politicians must make an extra effort to understand the Muslim mind. Only the hand of law can put an end to this culture of shame and help Muslims to integrate. If we let this division stand, a clash between Islam and the West will become inevitable. This means civil war.
Yes, nobody would want to do that, but sadly many girls born in Islamic families are forced to do that.
One day after the death of Aqsa, I received an email from an 18 year old girl from UK. She said that she has been reading about Islam and had decided not to be a Muslim. However, her Muslim parents force her to wear hijab and her sister told her that if their mother learns about her views, “she would either kill you or she’ll kill herself”.
I sent her the story of Aqsa and what her father did to her. She wrote back and said, “What an animal! Anyways, I don’t think my mom cares about my beliefs, as long as I don’t have a boy friend, [and don’t] take off my hijaab.”
The truth is that Aqsa’s father was not an animal either. He was just a devout Muslim, who had worked hard and had built a nice home for his family in an upscale neighborhood. He was an ideal immigrant, a real “success story.” However, he had no choice but to kill his daughter. He did what he had to do. As one friend wrote, “In a way there are two victims in this case. This man like any other father must have loved, nurtured and cared for his daughter for years. It is so unfortunate that he finds himself turned into a monster that ate his own progeny.” Then this friend asked “What kind of ideology was it that turned a simple hard working family man into a revolting image of himself?”
What the westerners do not understand is that Muslims have different values, which are diametrically in contrast with western values. Western societies are guilt based. In guilt based societies individuals base their conduct on “right” and “wrong”. They try to do the right thing and if they do something wrong, they feel guilty. Muslim societies are shame based. In shame based societies individuals base their conduct on the opinion of others about them. What really counts is to look good. In shame cultures, if you do something wrong, as long as no one sees it and knows about it, you are okay. You can still keep your head high and act as an honorable member of the society. It is the image that you project of yourself that matters. You must do everything to protect that image. It is all about keeping the appearances.
In guilt societies, how you dress or don’t dress is your business. You can practice nudity and even promiscuity and have no shame. As long as you don’t violate someone else’s rights you can do whatever you like. Such a thing is inconceivable for Muslims who come from shame societies where everybody's life is the business of everybody else. This makes the western and Islamic cultures essentially incompatible. If this problem is not resolved soon, it will result is a major clash and dire consequences.
In a subsequent email my young British friend wrote, “My mom has noticed a change in me, ..and she said today, ‘I hope you haven’t done anything because so an so aunt will laugh.' Jesus! Who cares about so and so aunt who doesn’t even care about us?”
This is the crux of the problem. In Islamic societies people live in function of the opinion of others about them. That is the only thing that really matters to them. Muhammad Parvez was devastated by the fact that her 16 year old daughter wanted to dress like her classmates and show off her beauty. How could he look into the eyes of his Muslim friends with such a daughter? Muslims call western women “sluts” for not covering themselves. For Mr. Parvez his daughter’s western clothing was a major source of shame and dishonor. He had no choice but to kill her. There is hardly anything for which we humans are willing to die for, or kill, like our honor. This is far truer in shame based societies, where guilt plays virtually no role and everything revolves around shame and honor.
Millions of girls living in Muslim families in the west are abused, beaten and face death by their own loved ones because of honor. Don’t assume that these girls are the only victims. Their families are also victims. They are left with no choice, but to kill the apple of their own eyes. Everyone in these tragedies is a victim. It’s the government that is guilty!
The government is guilty for letting down its Muslim citizens and particularly its most vulnerable members, the Muslim girls. There was no need for Aqsa to die. If hijab was baned she would be alive today. If hijab is banned, no Muslim can look down at other Muslims for not observing it and no one will have to feel shame. Muslims hardy wear hijab or observe any Islamic custom when they live in places where there are few Muslims. They start behaving Islamicly when they congregate together and build their shame based communities.
The 20th century Pahlavi ruler, Reza Shah, knew how to handle this problem. He banned the chador (Iranian style of veil) in 1936. He ordered the police to arrest woman wearing chador and forcibly remove it. Although this policy outraged the mullahs, the average Iranians were relieved. The ban allowed them to be free without having to deal with the burden of shame. The historian Mir-Hosseini writes, “this move was welcomed by Westernized and upperclass men and women, who saw it in liberal terms as a first step in granting women their rights." She continues, 'between 1941 and 1979 wearing hejab [hijab] was no longer an offence, but it was a real hindrance to climbing the social ladder, a badge of backwardness and a marker of class. A headscarf, let alone the chador, prejudiced the chances of advancement in work and society not only of working women but also of men, who were increasingly expected to appear with their wives at social functions. Fashionable hotels and restaurants refused to admit women with chador, schools and universities actively discouraged the chador, although the headscarf was tolerated. It was common to see girls from traditional families, who had to leave home with the chador, arriving at school without it and then putting it on again on the way home'." (cited in El-Guindi 1999 pp. 174-175)
Despite his flaws, Reza Shah is hailed as the father of modern Persia by many Iranians because he banned the hijab. He was a Muslim and was keenly aware of the Muslim mind. He knew that only with the fist of the law Muslims can be rescued from their backward customs. He broke down the power and prestige of the clergy, discarded the Islamic law, closed down Islamic madrassahs, forbade religious processions, and replaced the Islamic calendar with the old Persian-Zoroastrian solar calendar. He prohibited the Islamic call to prayer and discouraged the pilgrimage to Mecca. He even forced the mullahs to shave, take off their robe and engage in honorable professions. The majority of Iranians welcomed his reforms. He was seen as a liberator. He set Iran free from the oppression of the culture of shame. It is this shame that inhibits Muslims to take the first step and stand out of the crowd. It is because of this shame that no reform can ever happen in Islamic societies unless it is imposed on them by force.
Western governments have a duty towards their Muslim citizens and particularly their women that traditionally have been the most disadvantaged members of Islamic societies. If hijab was banned in Canada Aqsa would be alive today and a hard working good father would not have had to choose between his daughter and his honor. The government failed both Aqsa and her father.
There are millions of Muslim families in western countries who share Parvezs' predicament. The girls in these families are under greater pressure and bigger danger than those living in Islamic countries. In Islamic countries everyone wears the same clothing. It is much easier for Muslim girls to conform and comply there than in the West where they are forced to be different. The government owes these girls protection.
Aqsa is dead. Her beauty will be devoured by a cold grave. That bud was nipped before blossoming. Will we let her death go in vain or will we ban hijab and set millions of Muslims free in her memory?
We must ban hijab, save innocent lives, end this abuse, and absolve the poor Muslim parents from having to make such difficult choices. Muslim parents are not animals. They are torn apart between the love of their children and their honor. Only the government can take that burden away. The only people who would not welcome this ban will be the mullahs who will see their power reduced. The average Muslims will be grateful and relieved, even though to keep the image of faithful believers, may publicly oppose the decision. .
Now that Muslims are living in the West in such a large numbers, politicians must make an extra effort to understand the Muslim mind. Only the hand of law can put an end to this culture of shame and help Muslims to integrate. If we let this division stand, a clash between Islam and the West will become inevitable. This means civil war.
#203 Posted by nkg on December 19, 2007 2:04:06 am
Re: # 194
Heaven is imaginary place. People do not know, from where these virgins are supplied. Every one of us will prefer virgins on earth only. But, when for ordinary Paki,Afghani boy, that is near impossible, blow up and kill some non-moslems or fight for Jihad and get the virgins.
I have some more questions, why people needs virgins? Is sex the only purpose of life? What will ladies do in heaven? The concept of heaven is there in almost all cultures, where people can enjoy life without working a bit. This is like luring people to do something, for some future gain. This is the reason, I like Gita. There is nothing called heaven...Bhakti, Gyan and Karma will decide what your future will be.
Heaven is imaginary place. People do not know, from where these virgins are supplied. Every one of us will prefer virgins on earth only. But, when for ordinary Paki,Afghani boy, that is near impossible, blow up and kill some non-moslems or fight for Jihad and get the virgins.
I have some more questions, why people needs virgins? Is sex the only purpose of life? What will ladies do in heaven? The concept of heaven is there in almost all cultures, where people can enjoy life without working a bit. This is like luring people to do something, for some future gain. This is the reason, I like Gita. There is nothing called heaven...Bhakti, Gyan and Karma will decide what your future will be.
#201 Posted by rashid_s on December 18, 2007 8:25:28 pm
@199,
Oh greate!
Is this one of the State provided Constitutional perk for the public servants to wash their past sins with holy water so that they can start afresh 'as innocent as a new born baby' in the service of their public, or is it only for the "temprary leaders"?
Some time back I came across a poem by Nadeem Nadvi titled Shareef Chor and I remeber couplets which said:
"Khalee ameer choron ko yun nah bhagaaiye
jo hain ghareeb unko bhi Umrah karaiye
daaku jo they luterey they kharbon kay dosto
mehmaan hogaye hain woh Arbon kay, doso".
Rashid
Oh greate!
Is this one of the State provided Constitutional perk for the public servants to wash their past sins with holy water so that they can start afresh 'as innocent as a new born baby' in the service of their public, or is it only for the "temprary leaders"?
Some time back I came across a poem by Nadeem Nadvi titled Shareef Chor and I remeber couplets which said:
"Khalee ameer choron ko yun nah bhagaaiye
jo hain ghareeb unko bhi Umrah karaiye
daaku jo they luterey they kharbon kay dosto
mehmaan hogaye hain woh Arbon kay, doso".
Rashid
#200 Posted by bjkumar on December 18, 2007 8:09:52 pm
#198 Nasah sahib
[bad karma]
I will be failing miserably in my knightly duties if I do not immediately and vigorously protest on behalf of one Dr. Hoodbhoy (who, being smart, will never do so himself)! :)
#199 Posted by tahmed32 on December 18, 2007 5:15:25 pm
urstruly: Great news!! The Islami Khalifa is going to do the hajj!! Takbeer!!
From Dawn (Cowasjee)
We read that the (totally unsuitable) caretaker prime minister, glossy-headed Mohammedmian Soomro, is leaving today to perform what is obligatory upon all those who rule in this land — Haj at the expense of the adoring people. And happily for him, he is not going alone. He has company. An entourage which reportedly comprises 35 men and 15 women all described as “his close associates and officials of PM and Senate secretariats”. They are all “on the invitation of Soomro … but it is not clear who would bear the expense of this special delegation to be airlifted on a special flight.” Well, to you and me it is abundantly clear — it is us.
From Dawn (Cowasjee)
We read that the (totally unsuitable) caretaker prime minister, glossy-headed Mohammedmian Soomro, is leaving today to perform what is obligatory upon all those who rule in this land — Haj at the expense of the adoring people. And happily for him, he is not going alone. He has company. An entourage which reportedly comprises 35 men and 15 women all described as “his close associates and officials of PM and Senate secretariats”. They are all “on the invitation of Soomro … but it is not clear who would bear the expense of this special delegation to be airlifted on a special flight.” Well, to you and me it is abundantly clear — it is us.
#198 Posted by nasah on December 18, 2007 5:11:59 pm
" heard of the tragic death Tuesday of Mississauga teenager Aqsa Parvez from choking injuries she sustained Monday, allegedly at the hands of her father Muhammad Parvez,"
Oh no -- that name Pervez definitely carries bad karma -- whether in Pakistan or in Canada.
Oh no -- that name Pervez definitely carries bad karma -- whether in Pakistan or in Canada.
#197 Posted by sattar2 on December 18, 2007 4:28:38 pm
And again ...
www.sunnah.org/history/miracles_of_Prophet.htm
#196 Posted by sattar2 on December 18, 2007 4:27:38 pm
It seems the link did not get through ... trying again ...
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