The Sudanese Teddy Bear Saga

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Mithu Mian,
Yes, I agree with you that I think I should learn more. :)
My belief in the Holy Prophet(PBUH) and affection for him are by now very well-established and any "new" revelations by authors such as Rushdie, Dante, and Washington Irving will not sway them.

My faith is further reinforced by the yeoman attempts of mortals trying to gain recognition by defiling his name. He must have been some sort of success to cause all this envy.

#114 Anil Bhai,
Sorry, I have been incarcerated for a few days and could not post my response to you.

You are giving the Holy Prophet (PBUH) too much credit for his successes. That is exactly the beautiful thing about his life - he was a moderate person in almost every way - father, grandfather, husband, and nephew. He was illiterate, not wealthy, and was neither tall nor short - not at all an imposing figure physically, materially, or even spiritually. He lacked confidence, was very critical of himself, and did not project himself as someone who was sure of himself, firm about where he was headed, and what was the right course of action.

The key differentiators in his life were his extreme honesty and the trances that resulted in transmissions from the Supreme Being.

So the more we understand Mohammed's (PBUH) frailty, his doubts, and his self-effacing honesty, the greater our appreciation for the miracle he achieved - establishment of a truly universal faith united by by One Mankind's belief in the One God.

#116, kulharee they don't have hidden microphones in Pakistan to see if an Ahmedi says Salaam either. The laws you are talking about in Pakistan are as irrelevant in this day and age as the ones in Alabama and Rhode Island (to name another state)I'm sure you could dredge up some case of an Ahmedi being persecuted via these laws to which I would bring up 1000 cases in rebuttal. I can also tell you at least one case in Rhode Island where a man was arrested for certain peccadiloes he was indulging in. "retarded laws" exist in every country, no country has a monopoly on them.

#117 Shah Ji, in that case, I apologize. I knew you were upto something, but I couldn’t really take it in. Yep, me bad. But it was a good idea and an excuse for me to name my kinds as Johny and Bill. Oh well.

Re: # 116

You say:

"And now Tamashah Sahib (post # 77) is suggesting they shouldn’t use Mohammad as a name either."

I never suggested that. It is your misconception. I pleaded Ahmadies' case so much that some people have started calling me a Qadiani. Actually it was only a satire you ass.

Re #115 Sherbaz, they don’t have cameras mounted in bedrooms to enforce such laws in Alabama. These are old antiquated laws worth no more than a laugh. You want to learn about real retarded laws, read up on Pakistani laws, where, e.g., Ahmadis cannot use Asalama Lakum as a greetings, they can’t call their worship places as Masjid. And now Tamashah Sahib (post # 77) is suggesting they shouldn’t use Mohammad as a name either. We have now been downgraded to below Teddy Bears. You my friend are a product of Zia’s doings, with your head firmly placed inside Wahabi behind and a refusal to see the daylight.

Majumdar Bhai,

you can anally intrude upon anyone you wish, just make sure you don't do it in Alabama or you're going to the slammer. Once there, don't drop the soap. On second thought, since you've displayed a preference for back yard shenanigans, go ahead and drop it.

Re: # 111

Salim Sahib:

Do you think Mohammad could have market and sold his message in any other way?

He was a great general, strategician, tactician (few battles he chose to fight and win, marriages and alliances he built), thinker (Quran), marketer (Allah and Messenger - great marketing idea for the time, Steve Jobs pales) and salesman (over billion customers - followers served followers), many ardent ready to give their lives for this package 1400 years later).

In my ranking of men of all times he is among the top.

I do not know of many men / women who can beat this, even if we leave the God and Messenger out and treat him in human terms.

Salim:

Initially it was you who asked me to learn more. But now you are claiming that from what you know "Holy prophet" is a good guy. Do you think you should maybe learn more?. I did not quote any verse either in or out of context so far.

Again teddy bears deserve better than to be named after this violent megalomaniac.

#111 *errand boy

#110 masanamuthu {"??. Quran contains a lot of violent stuff to justify the title of the "violent megalomaniac" to your prophet."}

Mithu Mian,
You are now trying to categorize people in neat little pigeon holes so that you can get them on the defensive by quoting one verse or another out of context.

From what I have learned, the Holy Koran doesn't exalt the Holy Prophet (PBUH) in any regard other than that of a messenger, an divine errand, a peon of God - something he performed at great risk and loss of material wealth and stature for himself, his family, and his followers.

Mithu Mian,
YES! Emphatically yes. The Holy Prophet (PBUH) never approved the Islamic laws (Shariah) that were codified approximately 150-200 years after he passsed away.


Does that mean you are a Quran only Muslim??. Quran contains a lot of violent stuff to justify the title of the "violent megalomaniac" to your prophet. Teddy bears deserve better than that.

Re:108, Shah Ji, I am hopeful that you will honor my daughter as you honor your own, now go and be a good old joker that you come accross as.

Re: # 78
You are so perniciously personal and bad-mouthed as though I have 'honourd' your sister or daughter like you believe MM was on another board.

#101 arjun {" have news for islamofascists like you who live in the west..in the west, i can call my dog mohammad and there's nothing the 1.2 offended billion muslims can do about it. "}

Arjun,
If you really wanted to do that you could and would have done that already without blowing on your trumpet. Please ask yourself if renaming Fido as Muhammad (Nauzbillah) is what you really wanted to do, or was it your pleasure at announcing to the world, especially Muslims, that you had the balls to do so? If your rationale was because you wanted to do so, you are lying. If your rationale was that you were looking to piss off and hurt fellow humans, you are a very mean person, albeit an honest one. May Allah give you something better to do than naming dogs after spiritual leaders. Amen.

masanamuthu #99 {"Do you deny that when islamists ask for punishments for defaming the prophet they are not basing that on islamic laws as approved by the prophet?"}

Mithu Mian,
YES! Emphatically yes. The Holy Prophet (PBUH) never approved the Islamic laws (Shariah) that were codified approximately 150-200 years after he passsed away.

An editorial in today’s NYTimes discusses how al-Bashir is creating so many hindrances in finding a peace solution for Darfurian genocide (creating obstacles in allowing a joint AU and UN peacekeeping force) while the state sponsored atrocities and genocide go on. He is perhaps following the true Sunnah worrying about a teddy bear and a dude who died 1500 years ago, and gives an f about the massacre of innocent people. If that’s what Islam teaches, then a cuddly teddy does not deserve to be named after any Muslim, dead or alive.

#102 Posted by LOOP on December 9, 2007 8:58:17 pm


non-muslims who are shit scared by us because we will go to any lenghts to fight for our religion


scared? haha..another paki wannabe-tough-guy islamic warrior on the net...

tell you what, I'll insult mo and give you a place where you and I can meet to see what lenghts you're willing to go to fight for your religion...

arjun, don't be so sure. It is only a matter of time and a few more numbers. And numbers have a curious habit of changing in favor of Islam.

It's a group thing, nothing related to individuals. :)

Re: # 101
dear arjun even if the 1.2 million cant do anything about it.. we believe in a god that will surely do something about you sooner or later. there is no escaping that!
and anyways, i urge muslims not to publish such things on the net and make debate about it because what you end up doing is getting more isults hurled at the Propher (PBUH) and islam by non-muslims who are shit scared by us because we will go to any lenghts to fight for our religion while they are so wrapped in this world that they will probably stop going to their temples all together if there was a bomb threat! and thats what they call their "faith"

#90 Posted by zeemax on December 8, 2007 10:36:49 pm

I have news for islamofascists like you who live in the west..in the west, i can call my dog mohammad and there's nothing the 1.2 offended billion muslims can do about it.

get over it..

Sherbaz sahib,

(graffitti in singapore can get you flogged and having anal sex in alabama can get you 6 months in prison. Needless to say, if I'm in singapore, I wont be tagging any walls and if I'm in Alabama.... )

Lemme try to complete the quote for you

"My partner (male or female) and I would be doing b*****y only in private and keep it secret from authorities"

Did I get it right???

Regards

Salim,

Unfortunately I came to that conclusion after reading more about your prophet. Do you deny that when islamists ask for punishments for defaming the prophet they are not basing that on islamic laws as approved by the prophet?

Anyways, I do take offence in naming a teddy bear after him. It is a disgrace to the teddy bear.

#96 masanamuthu {"Moreover, it is an insult for the teddy bears to be named after this violent megalomaniac. "}

Mithu Bhai,
Perhaps if you read more about this Humble and Kind Person (PBUH), rather than judge him from the violence and irrational cruelty of those who ostensibly commit evil in his name, you may find it in your heart to like BOTH the Teddy Bear and the Holy Prophet (PBUH)

HP #92 {"Salim,
After a long time I have seen a better post from you...look at Loop's post # 81 and read this.

“and for the non-muslim boy who owns a teddy (??) get help and if i ever see you I will surely not wait for a court ruling but kill you on the spot!!”"}

HP Sain,
What is even more incredulous is that these people really mean what they say. I always thought that they were merely trying to get attention by acting stupid and talking silly. But then, I never took Hamidumdum Sahib seriously either ...:)

I support the punishment given to the British teacher. There are examples in the hadiths/sunnah etc..

Moreover, it is an insult for the teddy bears to be named after this violent megalomaniac.

As to the liberals, they should thank the President of Sudan for sparing the hide of one of their own, thoroughly undeserved this generosity though it was.

Hope the lesson has been taught, and no lady (or layda) from Britain (or elsewhere) will repeat the mistake.

If that happens, the purpose would have been served. The rest is un-necessary and un-needed.

Re: # 92

“and for the non-muslim boy who owns a teddy (??) get help and if i ever see you I will surely not wait for a court ruling but kill you on the spot!!”

I think this guy must be removed from posting for making such statements."

I agree -- the guy is loopy.

Salim,
After a long time I have seen a better post from you. If it were for guys like Loop, we all were to ride the camels because that is Prophet's sunnah!


Btw, I would like chowk staff to look at Loop's post # 81 and read this.

“and for the non-muslim boy who owns a teddy (??) get help and if i ever see you I will surely not wait for a court ruling but kill you on the spot!!”

I think this guy must be removed from posting for making such statements.

LOOP #85 {"salim chauhan do you know that its sunnah to keep the beard.. ...so if anyone should defend the prophet and his religion it should be those men in caves and god help us; never you!!! "}

Dear LOOP,
Being compassionate, being logical, being clean, being merciful, being nonviolent, being loving, being caring, being honest, and breathing air ARE ALL sunnah. Why must Sunnah be reserved for practices that are either outmoded, unnecessary, or inefficient?

If the Holy Prophet (PBUH) were alive today and based on his practical, loving, and rational nature, he would probably be clean-shaven, simply but tastefully dressed, and driving a car, instead of riding a camel. Oh! BTW, he would be against flying passenger jets into tall buildings, honor killings, suicide bombings, hatred of other Muslims and non-Muslims, suppression of women, and dictatorship, monarchy, and theocracy.

The last thing we need from the bearded cowards in caves is any defense of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). Thanks to these irrational and violent people, our Holy Prophet's (PBUH) popularity has never been lower in the non-Muslim world. These evil people have tarnished Our Holy Prophet's (PBUH) image more than the foolish cartoonists, mediocre authors, and illiterate televangelists.

hindoos ... (and munafiques),

Why was an australian tourist sentenced to 10 years of rigorous imprisonment for spraying graffiti on a poster of King Bhumibol in Phuket?

It was because reverence for the King is an integral part of the Thai political system, without which it would collapse. It is criminal to attempt to dilute that reverence.

It's the same in this case, except ten times over.

The Sudanese court did the right thing in taking all facts into account including lack of intent and awarding the minimum possible punishment under the law.

The Sudanese President did the right thing in pardoning the punishment on humanitarian grounds.

There was nothing wrong with the legal basis of the sentencing, which stands. And it should and will remain in all Islamic countries in one form or another.

So, go back and enjoy your respective cow piss cocktails with idli hors' deouvres.

@85- I could not help myself wondering at the definition of sunnah of the Prophet(essentials of all Religions and Church/Priests dogma).
-All sorts of people before and after Muhammad kept beard in those days and even now.
-Abu Jahel and Abu Lahab and others, ardent enemies of Muhammad kept beards.
-Shaving with rusty knives, broken piece of glass etc must have been pain full and traumatic to say the least. (Even with Mach Five razors it is a chore today. For this reason people even kept long hairs on their heads)

Nah kuch sikhaa nah jaana nah phechaana
Faqat dhaari barha kar bangaye maulaana!
Rashid

stuka i condemn both as well...but fact on grounds remains the same

"Stuka...please spare me the rhetoric...u r a smart guy so dont give me this bullshit about Islamic tradition u approve n disapprive of otherwise i'll be forced to bring some of ur noble traditions of mother burning n cow-piss drinkin..."

Excuse me? You bring up the fact that not eating beef is retarded, but are defending slaughtering live animals on the street. A BAN on eatig beef by the government is retarded; voluntarily not shoosing to eat it is not retarded. Same goes for eating pork. You may CHOOSE to not eat pork, banning my eating it is retarded.


"n its utter bullshit that cows cant be slaughtered in residential areas in indida cause of hygenic issues...r u fukkin kiddin me....have u ever been 2 india....they would let ppl shit in the middle of the street n take ppl bath in cow-piss in the middle of the road but god-forbid someone slaughters a cow....sell crazy somewhere else boss"

Which residential areas are you talking about? Try cutting a goat in Defence Colony and watch getting your ass kicked. You are deliberately distorting what I am saying. I said that beef is not readily available...as in I went to Dunkin Donuts in Lahore and could not order a bacon egg and cheese sandwich either. However, beef is available in Muslim ghettos and in luxury restaurants. Take your pick. Yes, the definition of "human rights" evolve..as in the German definition of "human rights" from the years of 1933 to 1945 were somewhat different relative to today. That does not mean there is a free pass...it means it is up to our conscience to accuse or defend a value system we see fit. You can apply your consideration of the majority will to both the Sudan of today and the Germany of 1939. I can choose to condemn both as evil. Nobody is saying democracy cannot be evil. It is better than alternatives; but it is not perfect.

LOOP: Did you know that by reducing Islam to a fashion-statement you are revealing your own inability to understand the simple and profound message of the Quran?

Re: # 73
salim chauhan do you know that its sunnah to keep the beard.. so these men you have a dislike for are atlest following the sunnah.. while you i presume are shaving off yours everyday contrary to the sunnah..
so if anyone should defend the prophet and his religion it should be those men in caves and god help us; never you!!!

i just scrolled down and reread--- kamath is the one who owns a dust ridden teddy.. are you sure its dust ridden or just exhausted with play??

i just scrolled down and reread--- kamath is the one who owns a dust ridden teddy.. are you sure its dust ridden or just exhausted with play??

(

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Stuka...please spare me the rhetoric...u r a smart guy so dont give me this bullshit about Islamic tradition u approve n disapprive of otherwise i'll be forced to bring some of ur noble traditions of mother burning n cow-piss drinkin...i dont wanna have 'my religion is better than urs' debate here...all's i was saying was that one people's human right is another people's pet-peeve. Who decides what is a human right...for americans its a human right for a woman to dance buck naked if thats what she chooses to do...if there was a country where people like ur father were in majority they wouldnt consider that a human right for his daughters ....america was still considered a democracy when they made blacks sit in the back of the bus...definitions of human rights change from society 2 society n u know it....things that they can do now under patriot act would be considered barbaric in german or swiss democracy...there is no cookie-cutter democracy...

n its utter bullshit that cows cant be slaughtered in residential areas in indida cause of hygenic issues...r u fukkin kiddin me....have u ever been 2 india....they would let ppl shit in the middle of the street n take ppl bath in cow-piss in the middle of the road but god-forbid someone slaughters a cow....sell crazy somewhere else boss

I am so happy. Now may be terrorism in India will abate. So happy. Really

#77 - Tamashah Saab, with all due respect, is it generally believed by the people who are generally believed to be idiots by the civilized world? Or did you just pull this out of your backside?

Re: # 74

You should have asked the bear also.

Btw, it is generally believed that some names, Mohd, Ahmad, Habeeb, etc., were specifically assigned to the Arabian prophet by Allah. As it is, why should these names be used by every Dick and Harry and above all by the Ahmadies who are not allowed to call themselves Muslims even by the 'Fatwa' constitution of Pakistan.

I am glad Taimur Lung did not have Muhammad in his infamous name -- otherwise they would have stoned his mother for calling him Lung.

"Stuka, Is it illegal by law of the land to slaughter cow in india? If yes how fuckin retarded is it...n if it werent for the majority would it be possible...my argument is not whether it is RIGHT to give the majority a right to legislate what they deem appropriate for their society...i m saying thats what democracy is..once u cut the bullshit of equal rights n shit for minorities...patriot act is law not because its fair for all citizens ..its cause thats what the majority wants "

Abu Safwan, your understanding of democracy is about as deep (or shallow) as Neembu's understanding of anything. First, a democracy can exist only if there is a basic undrstanding of human rights which are universal. To answer your question, it is illegal to slaughter a cow in some places. And no it is not retarded. You cannot slaughter a cow in a residential area. You cannot slaughter a goat in the same area either. Because it is a matter of hygiene. If anything, I find the Islamic tradition of slaughtering cows and sheep in the fricking street rather retarded. That too is illegal but like most illegal things, gets overlooked in India. In any case, the consumption of beef is legal..and so is the production in desiganted areas. Due to cultural and religious reasons, beef is not readily available out of Muslim ghettoes, but that is different from it being illegal. Also, the ban on eating beef is no more or less retarded than eating pork. Again, slaughter of pigs is legal..most Hindus are not pork eaters either..hence you will mostly get chicken or mutton. Anyways, moving away from ridiculous dietary discussions...

To your point, if Hindus were to legislate the deprivation of voting power for Muslims, would that be democracy? Per your definition yes, and per mine no.

Dear Hammad Siddiqi:

Congratulations for your excellent skills as an apologist for stupid and barbaric practices of followers of Islam in Sudan, supposedly a dar-ul-Islam- a mini Islamic Paradise in modern times!

You may like to know that there are millions of Muslims who are liers, thugs, cheats, torturers, rapists, criminals, mrderers, cutthroats etc. ( these phenomena exists in all societies too) But, but, all these men carry the name Muhammad. Have you heard of Mohammad Atta and his gang of murderers does it ring a bell? How about Mohammad-bin-Tughluk? and so on!!

What then Muslims did in the past and should do now ?What do you do with these Muhammads?

Here the name Muhammad was chosen by the children and not by the teacher Mrs. Gibbons who I suppose was surrounded by ever present informers and squealers. Mrs. Gibbons went to Sudan not to steal but to teach- a noble profession indeed.

Is this a sample of Sharia justice? First you go after the accused - punish first and not bother about investigation about the real truth? Punish the victim if necssary by seeking the help of frenzied Islamic street mobs?

BTW, I might remove the old dusty teddy bear from the closet in our home and name it Muhammad. Any objections by real Muslims, moderate Muslims and fundamentalist Muslims?

Kamath

The real insult to Our Holy Prophet (PBUH) is the idiotic eruption of mass hysteria among Muslims that is fed by the imbecile, irrational, and uncontrolled rhetoric of bearded men, reeking of batshit, and issuing fatwires from the confines of remote caves.

{"The day Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir decided to overturn a court ruling convicting Gillian Gibbons for insulting the Prophet Mohammad, he heralded a rare victory for progressive, moderate Islam"}

Siddiqi Sahib,
Good article and I mostly agree with your sentiment. However, the day irresponsible "Muslim" authorities and self-styled spokesman start behaving like rational, educated human beings, the world will start respecting Muslims and Islam.

Re: # 69

It is illegal to kill a lot of wild animals as well, dear!!!

Salman Khan got 5 years RI for killing a chinkara.

Surely , he did not get stoning to death for it!!

Modern civilization considers human life most precious- something that Islam does not realize at all and that is why it is rightly considered as a cult of death and blood thirsty Allah!!

my question was suppose to be is it illegal ANYWHERE? if so why?

Stuka, Is it illegal by law of the land to slaughter cow in india? If yes how fuckin retarded is it...n if it werent for the majority would it be possible...my argument is not whether it is RIGHT to give the majority a right to legislate what they deem appropriate for their society...i m saying thats what democracy is..once u cut the bullshit of equal rights n shit for minorities...patriot act is law not because its fair for all citizens ..its cause thats what the majority wants

Let me start by saying that the mullah's in their efforts to discredit Islam, to provide fodder to the enemies of Islam, and to waste time and brain cells over nonsense, never cease to amaze me. That said, let me address the hypocrisy of the two morons here who post quite often:

Hamid writes "The dedicated British teacher -- who took upon herself the self-torture and self-punishment to leave the comforts of a civilized society to go to this wild savage Godforsaken place called Sudan to teach the Mohammed-Worshipping barbarians -- how to read and write and teach their children how to show affection to Mohammed in a civilized way.-- ends up meeting this kind of cruel barbaric indignity."

Muslims have had a long history of dealing with just such "self righteous" people who leave their "civilized" socieities, following occupation armies to convert and civilize the heathen and insult their culture and religion. If after such a history certain "indigineous" people become over reactive, it is understood. That their ill placed reaction is then used by the mainstream media of the higher barbarians to justify their farce of the war on terror and the face of their constructed enemy is a much bigger outrage than the idiotic reaction of the Sudanese authorities (in this case).

Kulharee writes "No one in a Catholic country would ask for someone’s neck for naming a stuffed monkey Jesus. "

Really, and that is what you feel too? Than why the reaction, calling my parents all kinds of names etc, from you when I called your (stuffed) wife (because of her size), Dumbo? Please explain this discepancy you miserable hypocrite...

Shouldn’t the Laws be people-neutral, e.g., if it is unlawful to name a teddy bear Mohammad, it should also be equally unlawful to name a teddy bear Larry, Curley, or Moe? The blasphemy laws are stupid and archaic. Why wasn’t Prophet Mohammad subject to the laws of the land when he lived in Mecca? A lot of what he preached and practiced was considered sacrilegious by the towns’ people. You can’t have it my way or the highway all the time. The guy is dead. Don’t drag his sacredness (if it’s that dear to you) thru this stupid mud. Pick up some other cause to show your thin-skin. It is getting ridiculous now.

Hamid Saab, Prophet Mohammad would have lived in no place other than New York City.

Re: # 65

urstruly,

" Since Zia every government in paksitan has openly rebelled against the commandments of God and did nothing to legislate shriah completely into the penal and civil code hence the misery that we suffer today as a punishment. "

...... so, is that why you choose to live in flint, michigan ?....... i like your form of protest - i am sure god is pleased with you as well ......... you mardoodites are a bunch of munafiqs ..... laholaywalaquwat!

... by the way, thanks for pointing out that i still have three chances left to recant and save my head from being severed from my body by some god-crazed mullah looking to get into heaven so that he can hump horny houris ...

Re: # 62

Its a chiken or egg question. I think the establishment of Shria turns a politey into an Islamic state. Both go hand in hand. I am not much familiar with the Sudanese Law but Pakistan is a shameful example of what should not be done. It has two laws running in parallel - one law is based on English Common Law and the other is some of the Islamic laws imposed by Zia ul Haq in parallel. This is not only travesty of justice but an open mutiny against God also. The idea during the time of Zia was that since judges and lawyers were not trained according to the shraiah law and also the law itself had not been legislated yet therefore Islamic law would be introduced gradually. Since Zia every government in paksitan has openly rebelled against the commandments of God and did nothing to legislate shriah completely into the penal and civil code hence the misery that we suffer today as a punishment.

Re: #63

We're talking from a hypothetical view that she knowingly and deliberately set out out to insult the Prophet Mohammad. If that had been the case, then Yes, she would be subject to the Law of the Land. If that Law called for stoning, hey, thats the way the cookie crumbles. Lesson learnt for all future deliberate blasphemers. Thanks for appreciating my logic by the way. big of you.

Re: # 59

"but people establish laws to suit their own personal belief systems and a mark of civilized society is to comply with local laws, even if you don't agre with them (when in rome...)"

Howsoever barbaric they may be.......so she get stoned to death because her law of land calls for stoning!! Nice logic!!

#60: You yourself have said in the past that Sharia can only be imposed in a "truly Islamic society". Is Sudan a "Truly Islamic" society? If not, should Sharia be even applicable?

truly ji,

thanku . I would look forward to see the Islamic justice in action now!!

Re: # 58

#55 answers your question. Accroding to all 5 schools of jurisprudence of Islamic law, the maximum punishment for blasmphemy is death, but that is the ultimate and it is only given to those who refuse to recant and are repeat offenders. There is a minor difference among these schools; for example Hanfi school of thought gives unlimited opportunities to recant to a repeat offender if he recants everytime. He is spared everytime. The Shaafii school provides 3 opportunities to recant. Some schools spre the offender any punishment whatsoever if he recants and some suggest confinement, fine, imrpisonment and or exile.

If you are interested to know about what Islamic Law of Blasphemy is about please read my article on it:

http://www.chowk.com/articles/5331

I hope that will answer all your questions in this regard.

If mens rea was to be established in this case (and it was clearly not) then the teacher would be subject to the laws of the land. those laws might seem archaic and barbaric to most of us in this case, but people establish laws to suit their own personal belief systems and a mark of civilized society is to comply with local laws, even if you don't agre with them (when in rome...)

there are many laws across the world which seem preposterous to me personally for example graffitti in singapore can get you flogged and having anal sex in alabama can get you 6 months in prison. Needless to say, if I'm in singapore, I wont be tagging any walls and if I'm in Alabama....

she wanted to disparage Mohammad then what you suggest people do?

Re: # 56

I don't understand your question

Re: # 55

truly ji,

Assume there was a mens -rea. What do you suggest then??

Re: # 52

I also think that it was an inncoent mistake on part of the lady teacher. The Sudanese courts should have established the motive or intent first. That also goes with several opportunities to recant before delivering its verdict. In other words the spirit of law establishes that the punishment for blasphemy is only given to those who are found to be repeat offenders or those who refuse to recant.

Re: # 52

Naqshu,

Assume that the lady wanted to disparage Mohammad.......so would you like her to be flogged and stoned to death???

Re: # 51

"La ilaha il Allah Muhammadur Rasul Allah [sal Allahu alayhi wa aalihi wa sallam] is the absolute Truth. "

Naqshu,

Does it ever strike to you that the words "absolute truth" is another self boasting and self advertising expression.

I do think though that this lady committed an innocent mistake and did not mean to disparage The Praised One, may my parents be his ransom! It was all a misunderstanding whipped up by an increasingly islamophobic Western media and not helped by the naivity of Muslims either.

Of course, the Islamic punishment for anyone who belittles the Habib is death but I don't think any traditional Islamic court would have found her guilty. Allah and His Messenger know best.

laddu
La ilaha il Allah Muhammadur Rasul Allah [sal Allahu alayhi wa aalihi wa sallam] is the absolute Truth.

There is no one more dear to us Muslims than the person of Holy Prophet (pbuh). Our belief cannot be complete unless he becomes more dear to us than our own selves, our children, our family, our wealth, and anything that this world has to offer. This standard is established by God and His Prophet themselves.

The truest words ever written on Chowk. Subhan Allah.
Ardent love of The Beloved Prophet is Islam.
Anyone whose heart does not contain this love is not a Muslim whatever the label.

As Iqbal said,
"Aabru-ye maa zi naam e Muhammad ast!"

"La illaha il-Allah...."

Does it strike to you that it is the most self-boasting of all the messages..like the ads that get flashed all the time on TV screens."the first...", "the best...", "the greatest...." ???

#45 urstruly: And I assume you are God's personal psychologist who knows about his likes and dislikes. And if you wish to do what God likes, why you are writing in the internet equivalent of a big mouth - in capital letters?

And dont avoid the truth in what I said by hiding behind an irrelevant Quranic verse. If you truly respected the Quran, you would not misuse its words so easily. Mend your ways, like I said.

#45 urstruly: And I assume you are God's personal psychologist who knows about his likes and dislikes. And if you wish to do what God likes, why you are writing in the internet equivalent of a big mouth - in capital letters?

And dont avoid the truth in what I said by hiding behind an irrelevant Quranic verse. If you truly respected the Quran, you would not misuse its words so easily. Mend your ways, like I said.

Re: # 45

"We sent our messengers supported by clear proofs...."

words like "clear proof", "greatest", "knows all" ..... etc. are all "boasting".

By your logic the message itself is self boasting. You disprove your contention by your own logic!!

Re: # 43

GOD DOES NOT LIKE BIG MOUTHs.

As you will see below, God does not like big mouths for the reason that they are stingy. One would wonder how can a big mouth be stingy? This is because a big mouth thinks that it is he himself who knows everything and he refuses to give credit to those who deserve it. Our credit is due to God and to His Prophet. The proof is in La illaha il-Allah o, Mohammad ur Rasoolullah. There is No God but Allah and Mohammad (pbuh) is his prophet. You have to have belief in both otherwise you are munafique and stingy.

Here read and learn

The Iron 57:22-25

Anything that happens on earth, or to you, has already been recorded, even before the creation. This is easy for GOD to do. Thus, you should not grieve over anything you miss, nor be proud of anything He has bestowed upon you. GOD does not love those who are arrogant boasters. They are stingy, and enjoin the people to be stingy. If one turns away, then GOD is the Rich, the Praiseworthy.

We sent our messengers supported by clear proofs, and we sent down to them the scripture and the law, that the people may uphold justice. And we sent down the iron, wherein there is strength, and many benefits for the people. All this in order for GOD to distinguish those who would support Him and His messengers, on faith. GOD is Powerful, Almighty.

Dear Writer,

How can you praise that genocidal murderer Omer Al Basher, and that too for commuting a idiotic sentence under his patronage. Had it been some brownie or dark skinned catholic, Omer Al Basher wud have not shown the same compassion.

We Mohammedans enjoy making nobodies into international heroes and in turn bring a religious ideology into dis-repute. Now I wonder why would that be the case? Maybe its the message that is warped? Or, is it some genetic issue?

Urstruly: the opposite of worshipping the prophet is not contempt for the prophet. and you know that quite well. so dont just make up convenient assumptions.

my ways are based on the Quran, and they are consistent with universally accepted good values - i.e. all humans are equal before God, and we will be judged based on the simple criteria of distinguishing between right and wrong and doing the right thing. I dont need to mend my ways.

your ways are the ones that need mending - making up convenient assumptions (like the example in the first para), replacing the simple message of the Quran with rubbish that violates the fundamentals of the simple and profound message of the Quran (per the second para above) which has written by jahils in past centuries.

The entire plank of mullah Islam is based upon confusing humans with reference and the description of reference- the idealist confusion between the "truth" and "reality".

These mullah are the biggest " idolators" in the sense of being "an obsessive maniac who confuses description of truth with the truth itself".
They cannot even understand the distinction between the "reality" and the "description of the reality"- the distinction that is between the "Truth" and the "Reference".
For an obsessive maniac confuses between the "description in words" with its "reference"- an conjectures that a "description of reality" would change the "reality".
A Hindu idolator knows the clear distinction between the representation of the deity and the spiritual deity and does not get so obsessed with icons and imagery.
On the other hand the mullahs think that the description of reality would alter the reality itself and then incites every momeen.

Re: # 31

The answer is yes. This will help you understand how:

http://www.iqra.net/Quran/verses2.html

Re: # 32

The test is very simple. It is a self test. If you have contempt in your heart for Holy Prophet (pbuh) which is even as small as a grain of sand, you will have contempt for his message too. This criterion is established by Qura'n and Hadith.

To further that criterion, it is self-evident that if you have contempt for Holy prophet (pbuh), you will have contempt for his message, and thus you will have contempt for Allah (swt) and you will have contempt for those who believe in Allah, Prophet (pbuh) and his message.

I am regretful to say that but it is a sad thruth that you and your posts exhibit classic manifestation of this contempt for all of the above, which is a hallmark of a munafique. This in turn is a classic attribute of a Quadiani. If you poke any Quadiani he will burst into open contempt for Prophet (pbuh), thus his message, thus for Allah, and thus for all those who belive in them.

Please mend your ways, its for your own good. Please read some good literature and try to understand how the Great Emancipator (pbuh) has saved us all from ignorance and self-deceit. One has to be quite a low-life not to acknowldge the good of that who saves him.

Actually, Chritians should be bombing Punjab coz most dogs are named after St Thomas of Aquina...Tommy!!

Re: # 33

I would welcome that......there is even a movie called my friend Ganesha!!
Heck, even I had a dog called Ramu!!

Re: # 18
abu safwaan man, if the majority really can do what you suggest - then how different are you from Nazis and Hitler, or any of the idiots who wisehd to wipe people of the face of this earth.

BTW I did have a pretty decent steak in many parts of India (bombay, Hyderabad, Delhi, and yes in Varanasi as well), and some great beef curry in Calcutta, Allahabad, Ayodhya. And I am not kidding you about the places, dead serious about it. You really need to get abut a bit more from your comfort zone of the settee)

"....lest we forger indigenous majority has a right to legislate however there lil heart desire....u can be president of cattle assoc. of america but u better not order steak in mumbai..."

That os a load of crap. A majority does not have the right to legislate away the basic human rights of the minority. So, yes, you can order a steak in Mumbai..which seems to be your pet "beef" about India. You may not get steak at the local dhaba, but you can go to any continental restaurant and order it.

hamidm #27 These blasted Paki natives are getting uppity, what!! What is the world coming to, old boy!! Why cant they all be wogs instead, I say!!

laddu bhai: perhaps we should name the teddy "sri hanuman jee". That will teach you!!

Urstruly #30: Do you actually worship the prophet or are you simply being dramatic?

urstruly: "This standard is established by God "

can we call God as a witness to say this?

just curious

There is no one more dear to us Muslims than the person of Holy Prophet (pbuh). Our belief cannot complete unless he becomes more dear to us than our own selves, our children, our family, our wealth, and anything that this world has to offer. This standard is established by God and His Prophet themselves. We do not name animals or inanimate objects with his (pbuh) name out of respect. If anyone has a problem with that then suck it up. Its your problem. We know very well how to deal with our problems. So try not to sermonize us with "civilized world" crap. You can have your civilized world thank you very much.

Calling a cuddly non-violent Teddy bear Mohammad is indeed an insult to the Teddy bears!!!
Civilized world should never allow this!!

"This is no crime in itself, however it does reflect bad judgement on her part for which she has to take some responsibility. "

So you admit that she was responsible to some extent.
Pray, what if she 'deliberately' named that teddy bear as Mohammad ??
Would you allow the mob and the shariah courts to kill her?
Sure, there lies the limits of your 'progression' as a modern day muslim!!

stuka,

........ i second your proposal .......... today those children named a teddy bear muhammad ..... what is next? ....... tomorrow they might name their favourite barbie doll aisha .... this kids are on a slippery slope and must be stopped! ...... i say, hang those little niggers! (sudanese are black even though they are arab wannabes like most pakis and mohammadens everywhere)

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the incident (did I say 'rights'?) it's clear that the episode has been a total gift to Islamaphobes, certainly in the UK - and I try my best not to consider myself as one - even though the memory rankles of Sir Iqbal Sacranie, (former leader of the Muslim Parliament of Great Britain) describing me and my ilk as "repulsive, diseased and morally deficient". Can we really carry on denouncing those who don't necessarily hold to the beliefs or behavioural strictures of our own 'group'? If one does voluntarily subscribe to them and then falls short, it may indeed be pertinent to cry "foul", but surely not otherwise - although I agree that for all individuals 2-way sensitivity is desirable. A bit more tolerance all round would certainly not be amiss. (By the way, isn't the forename 'Jesus' relatively common for males in Latin American countries?)
Khaki

Re: # 9 Sherbaz
"...mine has always been to try and see the issue from all sides and not be too judgemental".

Then, may be, you should also try to consider the fact that a teddy bear is an object that most children (don't know about the Sudanese) are very attached to and love dearly. Many refuse to go sleep without it clasped in their arms.

So something that they dearly love was named Muhammad by a European woman who wouldn't have had a second thought about naming one Jesus in a Christian country or, perhaps, Krishna or Ram in India.

After all, isn't it the idea that Muslim children should love Muhammad as Christians do Jesus, and Hindus do Ram?

In closing let me mention that I had no intention to be insulting either towards Jesus or Ram in hypothetically suggesting a teddy bear to be named after them.

Does that make any sense?

Irony is that it is the same idolatry reverence of Muhammad that made 7 yr olds to name the teddy bear Muhammad on one hand and adult muslims to protest against it on the other.

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rashid_s,

We heard you the first time!

The charge against Mrs Gibbons is that she “allowed” the children to name a cuddly loveable toy to be named Muhammad by her class of innocent people. That was the children’s choice and their right. Muhammad respected the rights of children and loved them, so he would have been thrilled to be so reciprocated with love by the class.
To Mrs Gibbons, Westerner or not, a teddy bear is a symbol of innocence, love and comfort. She was not guilty of any thing wrong.
The fanatics, who elevate a ‘bashar’ like Muhammad to almost a ‘deity’ should take cognisance of the teachings of Quran. Muhammad was subjected to worst things by his enemies than being honoured by naming an innocent toy after him.
Islam can not be insulted by honouring or otherwise and by naming a person what ever.
This warped thinking is the result of “religion” – a church based on dogma, and its operatives the priests as its enforcers. And Islam is NOT a religion and tolerates NO priesthood.
There are millions named Muhammad in the world and a few I would touch them with a barge pole!
Dr Johnson’s saying fit the modern times to the hilt “Soldiers and Priests are the corrupter of the earth”.
Rashid

The charge against Mrs Gibbons is that she “allowed” the children to name a cuddly loveable toy to be named Muhammad by her class of innocent people. That was the children’s choice and their right. Muhammad respected the rights of children and loved them, so he would have been thrilled to be so reciprocated with love by the class.
To Mrs Gibbons, Westerner or not, a teddy bear is a symbol of innocence, love and comfort. She was not guilty of any thing wrong.
The fanatics, who elevate a ‘bashar’ like Muhammad to almost a ‘deity’ should take cognisance of the teachings of Quran. Muhammad was subjected to worst things by his enemies than being honoured by naming an innocent toy after him.
Islam can not be insulted by honouring or otherwise and by naming a person what ever.
This warped thinking is the result of “religion” – a church based on dogma, and its operatives the priests as its enforcers. And Islam is NOT a religion and tolerates NO priesthood.
There are millions named Muhammad in the world and a few I would touch them with a barge pole!
Dr Johnson’s saying fit the modern times to the hilt “Soldiers and Priests are the corrupter of the earth”.
Rashid

The charge against Mrs Gibbons is that she “allowed” the children to name a cuddly loveable toy to be named Muhammad by her class of innocent people. That was the children’s choice and their right. Muhammad respected the rights of children and loved them, so he would have been thrilled to be so reciprocated with love by the class.
To Mrs Gibbons, Westerner or not, a teddy bear is a symbol of innocence, love and comfort. She was not guilty of any thing wrong.
The fanatics, who elevate a ‘bashar’ like Muhammad to almost a ‘deity’ should take cognisance of the teachings of Quran. Muhammad was subjected to worst things by his enemies than being honoured by naming an innocent toy after him.
Islam can not be insulted by honouring or otherwise and by naming a person what ever.
This warped thinking is the result of “religion” – a church based on dogma, and its operatives the priests as its enforcers. And Islam is NOT a religion and tolerates NO priesthood.
There are millions named Muhammad in the world and a few I would touch them with a barge pole!
Dr Johnson’s saying fit the modern times to the hilt “Soldiers and Priests are the corrupter of the earth”.
Rashid

I guess i still dont quite get wat is offensive about naming a teddy bear muhammad..hows that disrespectful to the prophet (PBUH)...? I agree ignorance is no excuse to break the law of the land....lest we forger indigenous majority has a right to legislate however there lil heart desire....u can be president of cattle assoc. of america but u better not order steak in mumbai...because its against the law 2 eat 'god'....when in rome ......

I think the kids should be put to death for choosing the name Mohammad for the Teddy Bear. For Muslims themselves to show such disregard for the Prophet is inexcusable.

My NAME IS MOHAMMAD & I AM A MUSLIM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQXh20OuhIc

Author sahib,

you miss a very fine point when you write

[To better illustrate my point, if I was a teacher in a devoutly Catholic country, I would not name the class mascot "Jesus".]

In a christian country, the people seldom go as crazy to start asking for death sentences, even in a devoutly Catholic country.

Hammad,

Here are my 2 cents on the topic (from my iLog)

MY dear muslims, don't hate on the teacher and the teddybear


Dear Sudanese brothers and sisters,

I understand that you respect the prophet (PBUH), and don't want to offend him, but you should not take it upon yourselves to police that no-one else ridicules the prophet either.

Prophets are always ridiculed by opposing religions. In fact, if your prophet is not getting bad mouthed or ridiculed, perhaps you are not backing the right prophet. Perhaps your prophet does not have enough attention in the world.

Which brings me to naming a teddy bear Mohammad.

I know that you guys are wary of teddy bears. I also know that you are wary of missionary white teachers. Especially if they name that suspicious teddybear Mohammad.

However, please consider that the Teddy bear was made by some poor innocent Chinese in a sweat shop somewhere. The prophet always spoke for the oppressed, and would have supported these workers. Furthermore, the prophet told his people to travel to China if they have to, for education. Do you think he would be offended by China coming to the people?

Lastly, a teddy bear is no match, in offensiveness than, say Mohammad Zia-ul-haque. That is where people should have been really offended and slayed the bastard for offending the prophet. There are many others that are named Mohammad, and they are despicable people. So please, instead of fighting with the Teddy bear, fight with those people first.

Thank you

with much respect,
thinking storm

"The only thing Ms. Gibbons can possibly be guilty of is being ignorant of the sentimentalities of Sudanese hard-line Muslims. This is no crime in itself, however it does reflect bad judgement on her part for which she has to take some responsibility. To better illustrate my point, if I was a teacher in a devoutly Catholic country, I would not name the class mascot "Jesus"."(author)

Hammad -- Even though you wrote a good-hearted article on Gillian episode -- but still you don't understand who was at fault.

The teacher was NOT at fault.

The class mascot Jesus and a cuddly security blanket kind of toy teddy bear named Mohammed -- that the kids hug, get huddled with and sleep with at night -- are not comparable -- No catholic kid sleeps with the class mascot named Jesus.

Mohammed the teddy bear and the class mascot Jesus are like comparing a rosy cheek smooth shiny apple with a thorny elephant-skin jackfruit.

The Muslim kid named Muhammad gave one of the most beautiful name Mohammed to his security blanket sleeping partner -- the teddy bear. Period. It was indeed such a beautiful name that all kids in the class agreed to pick it -- did it occur to anyone why? -- definitely not because they were Catholic kids!

Hammad -- Believe me we Muslims are weird -- chooiee to chooiee -- in our bizarre set of crazy senseless 'sensibilities'.

Re: # 11

Hamidm Sahib:

"........ what about their feelings ? "

Certainly the most ingenious support the underdog. Can't believe it can come from a hardcore republican.

Long live the Teddies.

.......... and what about all those teddy bears who are protesting at one of their own being named after a man with a reputation