Comments on Ongoing Debate about ISI in the Afghan War

where the heck is who ?

where the heck is who ?

An interesting piece. It tends to validate many of the sincere feelings that I have held for the Pakistani khaki leaders except that I have been unable to express the same with such warmth and clarity as the likes of the Nasah sahib possesses. (BTW, where the heck is he?)

Re: # 64---Quality of the army's leadership has gone down.It is into big deals like real estate etc.In the 1980s and 1990s the army was lucky in not getting into internal trouble.Now when it seems to be on wrong side of Pakistan's so called Islamic ideology it is in trouble.The Malik system in which you could negotiate with a few key persons as well as the trbal Khan system collapsed in both Afghanistan and Pakistan in 1980s and 1990s because of the so called Jihad and Al Qaeda .Now the leadership of the resistance is more ideological and cannot be bought with subsidies.There may also be a superpower design to consolidate all Pashtuns in one country.

The generals of today cannot be compared to Eftikhar etc.Deterioration started after 1971 and is continuing.The army is fast losing its military virtue and this has been seen in Waziristan.I could see this even in 2003 when I wrote Why Waziristan could be conquered.The army has now lost its deterrent value.It no longer inspires that fear and respect that it did as late as 1990.Its alignment with USA against apparent Islamists has severely reduced its stature.

In revolution casualty toll is high.Neverheless the Khalqis and Parchamis are regarded as patriots by a large number of Afghans.I can see it very closely as I travel in all parts of Afghanistan.

Fuzair sahib,

Re: #64

I am no military expert nor ever been in Pakistan. But here's m2c.

Yes, the Paki Army men are loathe to fight the havayoons who they have learned to treat over the years as fellow mujahideens. Besdies many of them are Pathans and loathe to fire at fellow Pathans.

But there is something more. Mush deliberately ensured the "defeat" of Pak Army in Nov 2007 to create a climate of crisis wherein he could impose emergency and get his Westerns backers to back him by painting a "apres moi le deluge" kind of scenario. But now that his election has been secured, Pak Army is back to winning ways. Look at the speed with which the havayoons have been beaten in Swat post-emergency.

It is not that it is all hunky dory, the havayoons will continue to occupy large swathe of the mountains and also create havoc by terrorist attacks but the golden days of November where they were occupying one town after another is gone.

Regards

Dear Maj. Amin,

I have some issues with some of your analysis about the Afghan issue (e.g., the Afghan communists officially admitted to executing something on the order of 18,000 plus counterrevolutionaries in the first year or two if Wikipedia is correct; they were hardly the true blue patriots you paint them out to be) but I certainly agree with you that the jihad was all about money. However, this is all ancient history now.

I'd be much more interested in hearing your views on why the Army is performing so abysmally in FATA and Swat. Leaving aside the usual excuses (difficult terrain and poor road network that the Army is tied to, insurgents know the terrain better, etc), why has the PA done so badly? The PA should have had these Taliban on the run months ago!

Is it true that the Army and the FC is so completely demoralized that they literally will not fight? I knew that in the initial Waziristan operation one of the reasons why the PA did so badly was that command was completely split between the Corp Commander and the Governor but things are getting ridiculous now! The Army that I knew in the 1980s and early 1990s was certainly better than this! A Gen. Gul Hasan or Eftikhar would have sacked many battalion COs and Brigade commanders by now if their units had performed that badly.

What the hell is going on in the Army? IIRC you were commissioned in 1980 or 82; your contemporaries are now Brigadiers and should have some views of why the Army cannot fight.

Regards.

Sir,

I salute you.

Regards
Sanatani

Re: # 37
Pakistani strategists are actually quite adroit at making grand plans , the only thing is they always come to nought. In the aftermath of USSR intervention in Afghanistan in 1978, they saw an opportunity to profit from the situation and grabbed it.

The situation was not that good for Pakistan as well. If USA/NATO would have stayed neutral. The entire Kashmir would have been part of India and there would have been direct link between India and Russia. Russia was interested in that kind of situation (Vietnam they have rubbed salt on USA. Bangladesh they have rubbed salt on USA and China). Taliban/Pakistani tribals created a different situation.
Entire situation had changed against Russia first and now against everey country (Afganisthan, India and USA). Only, China is not affected by this. The worst loser will be USA if after spending so much of money, they are not able to bring the situation in their favour.

#60 Posted by tahmed32 on December 11, 2007 6:33:10 am

Are you ignoring me again?

#59 arjun8: "The US intervened because it saw an opportunity to give the soviets a vietman."

You are also a geo-strategic-tactician thinker. wow!!

#37 Posted by muqaddam on December 11, 2007 2:40:38 am


Zia played on the West's fears by constantly bombarding it with the theory that the Russians' adventure in Afghanistan was actually a launching pad for further Southward movement towards the warm waters of Arabian Sea, thereby convincing the West that the next target was Pakistan itself. This argument was swallowed by the West hook, line and sinker and the arms and money came gushing in


Umm...BS..

The only people to fall for that were pakis..The west couldn't have cared less. The US intervened because it saw an opportunity to give the soviets a vietman.

Re: #

Jihad was always about money sir.

Re: # 34

"This so called Jihad was only about money."

Heck all Jehad is about money. Tell muslims that fighting for money and lusting for spoils of war takes them to hell- mullah Islam would collapse!!!

Re: # 53:-- Bhai Jan Dot Dash , Kahin Morse Code ki kitaab ko read to nahin kar rahay aap ! Agar khadim nay gustakhi kee ho to maafi chahta hai.

Re: # 50:-- peons these people are.see two US trained citizens were on their top, Baji Shaukat Patna Wali and Naji Soomro.

Re: # 53 u seem to be D Litt in English Malik Saab.