The Good Monster: Musharraf's Cultural Legacy

Tahmed in #116, you have not replied to anything, you have again tried in quite a futile way to cover up what is quite obvious, US interference in the Pakistan political scence, circumventing the will of the Pakistani people and at times manipulating it for their own use. There are no insults in my posts to you either, what I state about you are the obvious facts that are understood by most on this site without my even mentioning them...

masadi #113/5: i did not red-flag your posts (I could have done so given that your personal insults violate chowk guidelines, but I chose to respond to your post instead).

Again, ignoring your personal insults in this latest set of two posts - you are merely repeating what you said in #111/112. And I already addressed that #113. Therefore re-read #113.

Very funny, some fool has red flagged my post #111, must be tahmed or his chaprasee....

More BS by tahmed in his usual spineless manner. I have changed nothing, the people of Pakistan do not care about wardi or non wardi, they want the fool gone, it was the Americans that want Musharraf both powerless and part of the stop gap "democracy", and so they have insisted that he give up the uniform. The people of Pakistan made no such demand, they demanded "go musharraf go", and the fool hasn't gone. Regarding his giving up the uniform it was 100% due to American ultimatums in the phone calls and the visit....

masadi #111/112: ignoring your personal insults (which is 80% of these posts), the only substantive thing you are saying is: "The fact is that the people want Musharraf gone, they don't care about wardi, non wardi".

In saying this, you have now changed the issue. In your post below you had written: It merely takes a phone call by a low ranking member or server of the US elite and maybe a short visit with an ultimatum..

I showed the superficial nature of your claim in #110 below where I showed that if it was not for the brave struggle of the Pakistani civil society, musharraf would still be sitting pretty as president and a uniformed officer.

So, now you ignore your original claim above, and bring up this new issue, i.e. i.e. that taking off the wardi is not enough. The answer is - of course not. But that does not change the fact that in saying musharraf parted with his wardi simply due to US pressure - you demonstrate your disdain for the Pakistani people whom you treat as non-entities in this struggle. and you demonstrate your inferiority complex whereby you consider the "US elite" to be some God Almighty without whose permission not a sparrow can fall.

In addition to #111, let me reiterate that the ONLY reason tahmed is making these posts about the wardi and the people of Pakistan is not because he either understands the issues or cares about the Pakistani folk. His reason is just to try to equate the desires of the US elite as if they were desires of the people of Pakistan. The age old trick of trying to legitimize the barbarism of his masters and to further our slavery to them. It is time we rejected this BS, rejected those who go along with the BS and understood people promoting this BS as the enemies of the people...

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ignore #109. Instead, I have below that plus a bit more that I added:

zeemax: This is how it works (the way I see it) -

1. After 8 years of an unelected rule, with fake referendum, deals with mullah diesal to prolong his stay, less than inspiring personality (constant lies, mocking and attempted suppression of rape victims) mush had long overstayed his welcome.

2. So when, in his usual brazen manner, he demanded another "extension" of his illegal rule - the Chief Justice put his foot down.

3. Mush fires CJ.

4. Public finally said enough - and rose to CJ's support.

5. Mush gets peaceful demonstrators killed on May 12 in attempt to suppress public.

6. Public refuses to be intimidated.

7. Pictures of suited-lawyers with heads bleeding from lathi charges hit newspapers around the world. World realizes that the alternative to mush is a large and active civil society, not a bunch of crazed maulvis. Mush's carefully cultivated myth is broken!!

8. Pakistan military morale suffers, since they see themselves as becoming increasingly unpopular among their own people. Note that in the few statements made by the COAS and another senior general, they both referred to the need for populat support for the army to be effective. Read Ayaz Amir in his article in Dawn who noticed this too. Never in his 8 years did mush ever refer to this obvious point, and indeed tried to give the opposite message to the military on his retirement speech.

9. Bush government sees an opportunity and a problem. The problem is that mush attacking civil society, losing support in the military, while terrorists are running riot in tribal areas and swat. So, Bush admin can no longer have one man hold hostage its relations with Pakistan, and changes policy to broaden ties with civil society. On the flip side, the opportunity is that there is a large civil society it can engage with. American ambassador takes unprecedented steps like calling for freedom of press in events organized by media; in seeking dialogue with mush's worst nightmares, like Aitezaz Ahsan.

10. Mush is separated from his wardi, crying and weeping.

So, take a look at the above complete picture as described above, and of course the driving force behind mush's separation from his wardi have been the Pakistani people, inspired by the Chief Justice. To deny this fact is to deny Pakistani people the credit for their courage.

Hope this explains and let me know if I am missing something above.

zeemax: This is how it works (the way I see it) -

1. After 8 years of an unelected rule, with fake referendum, deals with mullah diesal to prolong his stay, less than inspiring personality (constant lies, mocking and attempted suppression of rape victims) mush had long overstayed his welcome.

2. So when, in his usual brazen manner, he demanded another "extension" of his illegal rule - the Chief Justice put his foot down.

3. Mush fires CJ.

4. Public finally said enough - and rose to CJ's support.

5. Mush gets peaceful demonstrators killed on May 12 in attempt to suppress public.

6. Public refuses to be intimidated.

7. Pictures of suited-lawyers with heads bleeding from lathi charges hit newspapers around the world. World realizes that the alternative to mush is a large and active civil society, not a bunch of crazed maulvis. Mush's carefully cultivated myth is broken!!

8. Pakistan military morale suffers, since they see themselves as becoming increasingly unpopular among their own people.

9. Bush government sees an opportunity and a problem. The problem is that mush attacking civil society, losing support in the military, while terrorists are running riot in tribal areas and swat. The opportunity is that there is a large civil society it can engage with. American ambassador takes unprecedented steps like calling for freedom of press in events organized by media; in seeking dialogue with mush's worst nightmares, like Aitezaz Ahsan.

10. Mush is separated from his wardi, crying and weeping.

So, take a look at the above complete pictures, and of course the driving force behind mush's separation from his wardi have been the Pakistani people, inspired by the Chief Justice. To deny this fact is to deny Pakistani people the credit for their courage. Hope this explains.

Since 1947, Pakistan is under pressure from US. So just singling out Musharraf is not right. Pakistan needs to be strong politically, militarily and most importantly economiclaly, so that we wont have to take dictation from US. Right now, we are not in the position to stand against US.
I think, Musharraf is doing the right thing, by focusing on the economy, defense and democracy, which will help us to break the shackles.

well, in my opinion, very well balanced article. I have my FULL support for Musharraf, but I still think that he made a wrong decision on March 9th.

tahmed32,

tahmed, masadi is right re the uniform. musharraf doesn't have to give a damn about people's opinion as you've seen. It was the US pressure basically which forced him to do it (and Commonwealth suspension to some extent) to help his image abroad.

tahmed writes "I am not going to waste more time today with you."

Another common response from losers who are afraid of valid arguments and are afraid of the facts. Go on, put your tail between your legs and run off in your usual spineless manner...

In 103 read "It merely takes a phone call by a low ranking member or server of the elite and maybe a short visit with an ultimatum. Americans control Pakistan through their occupation force, which hops to when its commander in chief, sitting in the US, gives looks sternly or disapprovingly. Of course the distance from Washington makes this relationship a little more complex but not complex enough for the general to hop to when he is talked to in no uncertain terms"

as

It merely takes a phone call by a low ranking member or server of the US elite and maybe a short visit with an ultimatum. Americans control Pakistan through their occupation force,the Pakistan Army which hops to when its commander in chief, sitting in the US, looks sternly or disapprovingly. Of course the distance from Washington makes this relationship a little more complex but not complex enough for the general not to hop to when he is talked to in no uncertain terms by the members of the US elite.

tahmed the peon of the West writes "masadi: You seem to think that Americans are God. That not a sparrow can fall without their being behind it."

A common banality that those wanting to hide the crimes of their masters use. It does not take "God" to make a Pakistani general hop to. It merely takes a phone call by a low ranking member or server of the elite and maybe a short visit with an ultimatum. Americans control Pakistan through their occupation force, which hops to when its commander in chief, sitting in the US, gives looks sternly or disapprovingly. Of course the distance from Washington makes this relationship a little more complex but not complex enough for the general to hop to when he is talked to in no uncertain terms. The will of the US elite is not the will of the people of Pakistan and is certainly not in their interest, regardless of how hard you try to mask US interference in our affairs and equate that with the will of the people....

#101 masadi: You seem to think that Americans are God. That not a sparrow can fall without their being behind it.
And you think Pakistanis are so hapless that they cannot enforce their will.

No, Piano of the East. Americans are human. And Pakistanis are human. It is only your inferiority complex that leads you to think that Americans are all-mighty and Pakistanis are helpless. The facts are there for all those not blinded by complexes or hypocrisy to see: if it had not been for the bravery and integrity of thousands of Pakistanis, Mush would still be in uniform.

Now you can write try to cover-up this with your usual name-calling and personal insults. I am not going to waste more time today with you.