The Good Monster: Musharraf's Cultural Legacy

Re: # 122

"The emergence of the United Tehreek-e-Taliban of Pakistan is a huge development though and not to be underestimated. But that's another subject for another time."

Just a few weeks ago u were strutting around chowk celebrating victory in Swat and proclaiming that the time is near. Now that you have your ass whipped and handed to u on a platter u have found refuge in this alliance of necessity.
I told u then and repeat the same, time of irrational refuge in ideologies of the fourteenth century are over, sooner u and your ilk realize this the better.

Re: # 121

tahmed32,

"Mush and his chowk propagandist Nadeem Paracha love you too"

Qibla, "labeling" those who disagree with your point of view represents weakness in conviction. If you have evidence and strength in conviction then u need not resort to such chichorra tactics. Then again, aap samajdar hein.

#122 Posted by zeemax on December 15, 2007 7:10:23 am


The emergence of the United Tehreek-e-Taliban of Pakistan is a huge development though and not to be underestimated.


yeah....the paki army needs to import white phosphorus ASAP and allah need to keep more virgins ready...

#121 Posted by tahmed32,

tahmed saheb Sir, I resent your mentioning me and people like this paracha in the same sentence.

I demand an immediate and unconditional apology!

Actually there's no bogeyman. musharraf himself, in his overblown self-confidence, has acknowledged in several interviews with foreign media that the one and only reason for his action of Nov 3 was the superior judiciary. That's all. A few days ago he even went to the extent of telling ABC that the C.J was trying to remove him so he removed him first! I.e. just as he removed NS when NS tried to remove him. No difference. So where's the bogeyman?

The emergence of the United Tehreek-e-Taliban of Pakistan is a huge development though and not to be underestimated. But that's another subject for another time.

zeemax: Mush and his chowk propagandist Nadeem Paracha love you too!! After all - the "mullah bogeyman" has been Mush's prime rationale for dictatorship, and you are only too happy to oblige.

Thank God for the majority of the Pakistanis who can see through the games that mush has been playing and who also couldnt give two hoots for maulvis (who have thrived only under dictators mush and zia).

#110 Posted by tahmed32

driving force behind mush's separation from his wardi have been the Pakistani people ..

#111 Posted by masadi

... the demand presented in crystal clear slogans was "Go Musharraf Go" and Musharraf has NOT gone....

Both the above statements cannot be denied. However, the fact as has emerged is that the shedding of the 'wardi' has done no good at all since today the constitution has been turned into a presidential form of government (instead of Parliamentary) plus removal of both eligibility as well as tenure clauses for the president. What that means is ... Hosni Mubarak.

So, when musharraf took off the wardi, he knew exactly what he was going to do next to maintain the SAME power. Wardi or no wardi. And he has achieved that. That's what I was saying all along.

I, therefore maintain as before that only providence can/will remove musharraf.

I may add though that it may very well be Baitullah Mehsud under whose command the various regional/tribal local Taliban movements (Bajaur, Mohmand Agency, Parachinar, Malakand, Swat) have united yesterday and vowed to step up war.

#117 masadi: you are incorrect in saying that i have "not replied to anything" - when in fact in #110 and #113 i have in fact replied to the two issues you wrote. and, per #116, it is you who is merely repeating yourself.

The fact is that in raising these hollow issues, you have sidelined the real issue. Namely, that this article is an attempt by the Nadeem Paracha to give Musharraf undue credit while berating the Pakistani people who are supposed to be grateful to this man for "culture".

Great job, masadi! Musharraf loves you. His PR man Nadeem Paracha loves you.

assadhi, this has nothing to do with the US elite but more to do with Musharraf's cultural legacy. Follow your own advice and stick to the topic, half-assed chump

Tahmed in #116, you have not replied to anything, you have again tried in quite a futile way to cover up what is quite obvious, US interference in the Pakistan political scence, circumventing the will of the Pakistani people and at times manipulating it for their own use. There are no insults in my posts to you either, what I state about you are the obvious facts that are understood by most on this site without my even mentioning them...

masadi #113/5: i did not red-flag your posts (I could have done so given that your personal insults violate chowk guidelines, but I chose to respond to your post instead).

Again, ignoring your personal insults in this latest set of two posts - you are merely repeating what you said in #111/112. And I already addressed that #113. Therefore re-read #113.

Very funny, some fool has red flagged my post #111, must be tahmed or his chaprasee....

More BS by tahmed in his usual spineless manner. I have changed nothing, the people of Pakistan do not care about wardi or non wardi, they want the fool gone, it was the Americans that want Musharraf both powerless and part of the stop gap "democracy", and so they have insisted that he give up the uniform. The people of Pakistan made no such demand, they demanded "go musharraf go", and the fool hasn't gone. Regarding his giving up the uniform it was 100% due to American ultimatums in the phone calls and the visit....

masadi #111/112: ignoring your personal insults (which is 80% of these posts), the only substantive thing you are saying is: "The fact is that the people want Musharraf gone, they don't care about wardi, non wardi".

In saying this, you have now changed the issue. In your post below you had written: It merely takes a phone call by a low ranking member or server of the US elite and maybe a short visit with an ultimatum..

I showed the superficial nature of your claim in #110 below where I showed that if it was not for the brave struggle of the Pakistani civil society, musharraf would still be sitting pretty as president and a uniformed officer.

So, now you ignore your original claim above, and bring up this new issue, i.e. i.e. that taking off the wardi is not enough. The answer is - of course not. But that does not change the fact that in saying musharraf parted with his wardi simply due to US pressure - you demonstrate your disdain for the Pakistani people whom you treat as non-entities in this struggle. and you demonstrate your inferiority complex whereby you consider the "US elite" to be some God Almighty without whose permission not a sparrow can fall.

In addition to #111, let me reiterate that the ONLY reason tahmed is making these posts about the wardi and the people of Pakistan is not because he either understands the issues or cares about the Pakistani folk. His reason is just to try to equate the desires of the US elite as if they were desires of the people of Pakistan. The age old trick of trying to legitimize the barbarism of his masters and to further our slavery to them. It is time we rejected this BS, rejected those who go along with the BS and understood people promoting this BS as the enemies of the people...

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ignore #109. Instead, I have below that plus a bit more that I added:

zeemax: This is how it works (the way I see it) -

1. After 8 years of an unelected rule, with fake referendum, deals with mullah diesal to prolong his stay, less than inspiring personality (constant lies, mocking and attempted suppression of rape victims) mush had long overstayed his welcome.

2. So when, in his usual brazen manner, he demanded another "extension" of his illegal rule - the Chief Justice put his foot down.

3. Mush fires CJ.

4. Public finally said enough - and rose to CJ's support.

5. Mush gets peaceful demonstrators killed on May 12 in attempt to suppress public.

6. Public refuses to be intimidated.

7. Pictures of suited-lawyers with heads bleeding from lathi charges hit newspapers around the world. World realizes that the alternative to mush is a large and active civil society, not a bunch of crazed maulvis. Mush's carefully cultivated myth is broken!!

8. Pakistan military morale suffers, since they see themselves as becoming increasingly unpopular among their own people. Note that in the few statements made by the COAS and another senior general, they both referred to the need for populat support for the army to be effective. Read Ayaz Amir in his article in Dawn who noticed this too. Never in his 8 years did mush ever refer to this obvious point, and indeed tried to give the opposite message to the military on his retirement speech.

9. Bush government sees an opportunity and a problem. The problem is that mush attacking civil society, losing support in the military, while terrorists are running riot in tribal areas and swat. So, Bush admin can no longer have one man hold hostage its relations with Pakistan, and changes policy to broaden ties with civil society. On the flip side, the opportunity is that there is a large civil society it can engage with. American ambassador takes unprecedented steps like calling for freedom of press in events organized by media; in seeking dialogue with mush's worst nightmares, like Aitezaz Ahsan.

10. Mush is separated from his wardi, crying and weeping.

So, take a look at the above complete picture as described above, and of course the driving force behind mush's separation from his wardi have been the Pakistani people, inspired by the Chief Justice. To deny this fact is to deny Pakistani people the credit for their courage.

Hope this explains and let me know if I am missing something above.