The Good Monster: Musharraf's Cultural Legacy

masadi #111/112: ignoring your personal insults (which is 80% of these posts), the only substantive thing you are saying is: "The fact is that the people want Musharraf gone, they don't care about wardi, non wardi".

In saying this, you have now changed the issue. In your post below you had written: It merely takes a phone call by a low ranking member or server of the US elite and maybe a short visit with an ultimatum..

I showed the superficial nature of your claim in #110 below where I showed that if it was not for the brave struggle of the Pakistani civil society, musharraf would still be sitting pretty as president and a uniformed officer.

So, now you ignore your original claim above, and bring up this new issue, i.e. i.e. that taking off the wardi is not enough. The answer is - of course not. But that does not change the fact that in saying musharraf parted with his wardi simply due to US pressure - you demonstrate your disdain for the Pakistani people whom you treat as non-entities in this struggle. and you demonstrate your inferiority complex whereby you consider the "US elite" to be some God Almighty without whose permission not a sparrow can fall.

More BS by tahmed in his usual spineless manner. I have changed nothing, the people of Pakistan do not care about wardi or non wardi, they want the fool gone, it was the Americans that want Musharraf both powerless and part of the stop gap "democracy", and so they have insisted that he give up the uniform. The people of Pakistan made no such demand, they demanded "go musharraf go", and the fool hasn't gone. Regarding his giving up the uniform it was 100% due to American ultimatums in the phone calls and the visit....

Very funny, some fool has red flagged my post #111, must be tahmed or his chaprasee....

masadi #113/5: i did not red-flag your posts (I could have done so given that your personal insults violate chowk guidelines, but I chose to respond to your post instead).

Again, ignoring your personal insults in this latest set of two posts - you are merely repeating what you said in #111/112. And I already addressed that #113. Therefore re-read #113.

Tahmed in #116, you have not replied to anything, you have again tried in quite a futile way to cover up what is quite obvious, US interference in the Pakistan political scence, circumventing the will of the Pakistani people and at times manipulating it for their own use. There are no insults in my posts to you either, what I state about you are the obvious facts that are understood by most on this site without my even mentioning them...

assadhi, this has nothing to do with the US elite but more to do with Musharraf's cultural legacy. Follow your own advice and stick to the topic, half-assed chump

#117 masadi: you are incorrect in saying that i have "not replied to anything" - when in fact in #110 and #113 i have in fact replied to the two issues you wrote. and, per #116, it is you who is merely repeating yourself.

The fact is that in raising these hollow issues, you have sidelined the real issue. Namely, that this article is an attempt by the Nadeem Paracha to give Musharraf undue credit while berating the Pakistani people who are supposed to be grateful to this man for "culture".

Great job, masadi! Musharraf loves you. His PR man Nadeem Paracha loves you.

#110 Posted by tahmed32

driving force behind mush's separation from his wardi have been the Pakistani people ..

#111 Posted by masadi

... the demand presented in crystal clear slogans was "Go Musharraf Go" and Musharraf has NOT gone....

Both the above statements cannot be denied. However, the fact as has emerged is that the shedding of the 'wardi' has done no good at all since today the constitution has been turned into a presidential form of government (instead of Parliamentary) plus removal of both eligibility as well as tenure clauses for the president. What that means is ... Hosni Mubarak.

So, when musharraf took off the wardi, he knew exactly what he was going to do next to maintain the SAME power. Wardi or no wardi. And he has achieved that. That's what I was saying all along.

I, therefore maintain as before that only providence can/will remove musharraf.

I may add though that it may very well be Baitullah Mehsud under whose command the various regional/tribal local Taliban movements (Bajaur, Mohmand Agency, Parachinar, Malakand, Swat) have united yesterday and vowed to step up war.

zeemax: Mush and his chowk propagandist Nadeem Paracha love you too!! After all - the "mullah bogeyman" has been Mush's prime rationale for dictatorship, and you are only too happy to oblige.

Thank God for the majority of the Pakistanis who can see through the games that mush has been playing and who also couldnt give two hoots for maulvis (who have thrived only under dictators mush and zia).

#121 Posted by tahmed32,

tahmed saheb Sir, I resent your mentioning me and people like this paracha in the same sentence.

I demand an immediate and unconditional apology!

Actually there's no bogeyman. musharraf himself, in his overblown self-confidence, has acknowledged in several interviews with foreign media that the one and only reason for his action of Nov 3 was the superior judiciary. That's all. A few days ago he even went to the extent of telling ABC that the C.J was trying to remove him so he removed him first! I.e. just as he removed NS when NS tried to remove him. No difference. So where's the bogeyman?

The emergence of the United Tehreek-e-Taliban of Pakistan is a huge development though and not to be underestimated. But that's another subject for another time.

#122 Posted by zeemax on December 15, 2007 7:10:23 am


The emergence of the United Tehreek-e-Taliban of Pakistan is a huge development though and not to be underestimated.


yeah....the paki army needs to import white phosphorus ASAP and allah need to keep more virgins ready...

Re: # 121

tahmed32,

"Mush and his chowk propagandist Nadeem Paracha love you too"

Qibla, "labeling" those who disagree with your point of view represents weakness in conviction. If you have evidence and strength in conviction then u need not resort to such chichorra tactics. Then again, aap samajdar hein.

Re: # 122

"The emergence of the United Tehreek-e-Taliban of Pakistan is a huge development though and not to be underestimated. But that's another subject for another time."

Just a few weeks ago u were strutting around chowk celebrating victory in Swat and proclaiming that the time is near. Now that you have your ass whipped and handed to u on a platter u have found refuge in this alliance of necessity.
I told u then and repeat the same, time of irrational refuge in ideologies of the fourteenth century are over, sooner u and your ilk realize this the better.

tahmed32,

Did you just hear the speech? So all pieces fall in place. Remember this idiot's earlier assertions about 'Unity of Command'?

Well, that's what he wants to do. All institutions i.e. Legislature, Judiciary, Media and the rest to function under a 'Unity of Command'.

In other words, he wants to turn Pakistan into a Burma.

Oh well ....

anil #various: ...let's forget about what others think of musharraf and see how he evaluates himself......

musharraf put in this second martial, when according to his own words, the govt had failed and the country was on a path of being a failed state.......this was stated by musharraf the general, against a govt. led by musharraf the president......

......this was, thus, a unique international case, where a general carried out a coup against himself........

when, musharraf is himself stating that the govt. run by him has totally failed, then how can anyone else argue against it......

what, basically, needs to be evaluated has nothing to do with musharraf......it has to do with the two institutions he was leading........the army and the executive/legislature.........

what musharraf has done is to state that the army should run the country and not the executive/legislature, and that the judiciary should have no say in the constitution.....

.......so this is a victory for the army under musharraf, against the civilian institutions under the same musharraf.....the supreme court ruling would not have just kicked out musharraf, it would have eventually taken out the army from the whole state system of pakistan.......

so a better evaluation criteria would be whether the army can run pakistan better or the civilians........i know the army too well........trust me they cannot run a private factory, much less the country......

the other point that you need to address is the following: pakistan now, after iraq, has the second highest number of suicide bombings in the world........all of this started under musharraf.......how in the world is that good for pakistan........

people who used to taunt me for not returning to pakistan, are now planning their exit strategy........

can the civilians run pakistan.......i don't know........can the army run, definitely not......doesn't matter whether it is led by musharraf or anyone else........

pakistan was on the verge of establishing what is the most important factor in a country......i don't know of too many countries, where the judiciary and legal community had become so vibrant.........musharraf and the miltiary have destroyed that.......which constitutes, according to pakistani law, to be treason......it's an open and shut case........and for that the penalty is death......

......let's forget about ns, bb and musharraf......it is a fair judiciary that is the strength of any country......

...the next election will be interesting......

......if the old judiciary is reinstalled, they will rule against musharraf (and probably the military staff officers), for high treason.....it is an open and shut case....treason (ghaddari) is the highest crime against a state, in pakistan.......and it carries the death penalty.....

......musharraf, kayani etc., obviously, cannot allow that.......to undo this, they need a legislature that legalizes everything they did......a compliant supreme court is not enough, as the majority in the legislature can over-rule it.......

.......it doesn't seem like pml(q) can win much......nor can, perhaps jui(f)......mqm will win, but it is a small local party.......most of the seats will go to ppp and pml(n)......

....in the last election, musharraf brutalized these parties, threatened and jailed them to get breakway factions.......e.g. he jailed yusuf gilani of ppp for over four years, to get him to switch parties.......he jailed naveed qamar of ppp for over two years.......he abolished all corruption cases against chaudhries etc.....much like he is doing against benazir.........

musharraf will either have to massively rig the elections......or he will have to go through another cycle of threatening, through kayani this time around.........the other option is to to forgive all corruption cases against benazir, and get her to cooperate......

.......so, basically, musharraf and kayani will have committted treason, themselves.......musharraf would have legalized the massively corrupt pml(q) members earlier and ppp members (specicically bb) this time.........

i had always said that the two most competently upright leaders in pakistan are aitezaz ahsan and imran khan......both of them have refused to take part in the election and have been targeted by the army and musharraf.......

........the two upright institutions have been media and legal folks........they are being targeted.......

imagine if 60-70% of the most upright members of a country's judiciary are forced out.........what is left behind.......the riff-raffs and the opportunists......how in the world will a judiciary recover from that......it's worst that kicking out 60-70% of the most competent businessmen in a country........