Fundamentalism and Violence

Re: # 88
dear khurram...no i do not have a problem if majority of the people choose a religious person who is respectful of human rights of all citizens....including minorities...
women, blacks, gays, lesbians, other religious sects and secular minorities.
an example of such a person was Jimmy Carter of America. he was a Christian but he kept his religion private. That is why now he is critical of Bush as Bush brings his Christianity in the White House. So it is as dependent on the person as on the Constitution and the Laws of the land in which all human beings have equal rights and privileges. Have we come to a mutual agreement now? sincerely sohail
ps..what did you think of category 6's comments about my philosophy?

#87 Dr. Sohail: I dont believe in theocracy either, which is merely another form of dictatorship. Nor do I think even the most fanatical maulvi really cares whether or not you believe in God - all this rubbish about shariah and islamic laws is merely maulvis trying to elbow their way into political power. It is as fake as the talk about "Supreme National Interest" that musharraf used to fake his way into political power.

And the fact is that no one, other than the genuinely retarded, is really fooled by these clowns - maulvis or musharraf.

That is why democracy is so important - people vote for their self-interest. And even if they end up choosing whom they consider to be the lesser of two evils (and individuals seeking political power are generally less than inspiring) - checks and balances limit the damage they can do in a democracy.

Re: # 78
dear category 6...i do not think you are fair to my philosophy and lifestyle. let me share the essence of my journey. i grew up in a muslim family and followed that tradition as a muslim but when i grew older i realized that i am a muslim because i was born in a muslim family and community. i wondered what would have happened if i was born in a hindu, christian, jewish or socialist family. gradually i became a secular humanist and now i am of the opinion that as a human being i have inherited all the religious, spiritual and secular traditions. now i respect followers of all traditions and i hope they respect my philosophy.
i hope i have clarified my philosophy. the final goal of all of us is to become fully human individually and collectively so that we can reduce human suffering and take humanity to the next stage of human evolution where we can find peace in our hearts and harmony with other human beings. in my day to day life as a psychotherapist i help those people who suffer from emotional problems and try my best to relieve their suffering so that they can lead a healthy, happy and peaceful life. do you call that person a humanist or a satanist? sincerely sohail

So, you don't have a problem with,
".....if 95 % of people are religious they are going to elect religious leaders" as long as basic human rights are protected by constitution?
Or would you rather wait until they turn 'humanist' before giving them democracy?

Re: # 77
dear tahmed 32 and khurram...i never said i believe in military dictatorship. i am very much in favour of democracy but i do not agree with theocracy. i would like to keep religion private and have the state following secular laws...secular that has freedom of religion as well as freedom from religion...so that nonbelievers have the same rights as believers.
sincerely sohail

Islamic fundamentalism, obscurantism are problems in certain ghettoes in Europe but, far more overriding issues are of xenophobia, racism, discrimination.

The evidence from north America is that if you give minorities equal opportunities in jobs, housing, education etc, they tend to integrate, assimilate and inter-marry into the mainstream, just as the jews have done in the US.

Probably that’s asking too much of a continent that kept jews in the ghettoes for centuries and finally annihilated them in gas chambers.

Rashid mian,

(Most interesting thing is Awam will again choose these people who have emptied the cofers during their stint in power. Leaving the people high and dry. )

All I can say is that the best thing under the circumstance is to keep fighting for a better alternative and fight for strengthening institutions which will act as a check on these kleptocrats. Btw, if it is of any satisfaction to you, politicos on our side of the border are (by and large) as big time crooks as yours. I guess we will have to grin and bear it in the meanwhile.

Regards

Majumdar: Most interesting thing is Awam will again choose these people who have emptied the cofers during their stint in power. Leaving the people high and dry.

Laughing duo:
Benazir and Nawaz Sharif will participate in elections.
benazir is firing on the shoulder of Awam.
Nawaz Sharif is firing on the shoulder of judges.
The main beneficiary of the exercise will as usual be swiss banks and properties in middle east.

Rashid mian,

What is interesting about the list, if you could elaborate please for the benefit of us Injuns?

Regards

Re: # 78

"hen he decided to enjoy the jolly life......."

No way.......he decided not to have a jolly good life in the Jannah with the 72 houries!! That is actually a hell of a sacrifice!!!

For the interest of all.
Pakistan rich list. Top ten is interesting.

1 - Mian Muhammad Mansha Yaha Pakistan
Ranking: 1 Worth: £1.25b ($2.5billion)Industry: Businessman

2 - Asif Ali Zardari Pakistan
Ranking: 2 Worth: £900m ($1.8billion) Industry: Politics

3 - Sir Anwar Pervaiz UK
Ranking: 3 Worth: £750m ($1.5billion) Industry: Businessman

4 - Nawaz Sharif & Shahbaz Sharif family Saudi Arabia/Pakistan
Ranking: 4 Worth: £700m ($1.4billion) Industry: Politics/Businessman

5 - Saddaruddin Hashwani Pakistan
Ranking: 5 Worth: £550m ($1.1billion) Industry: Businessman

6 - Nasir Schon & family U.A.E/Pakistan
Ranking: 6 (tied at 6) Worth: £500m ($1billion) Industry: Businessman

7 - Abdul Razzaq Yakoub & family U.A.E
Ranking: 6 (tied at 6) Worth: £500m ($1billion) Industry: Businessman

8 - Rafiq Habib & Rasheed Habib Pakistan
Ranking: 7 Worth: £450m ($900) Industry: Businessman

9 - Tariq Saigol & Nasim Saigol Pakistan
Ranking: 8 Worth: £425m ($850) Industry: Businessman

10 - Dewan Yousaf Farooqui Pakistan
Ranking: 9 (tied at 9) Worth: £400m ($800) Industry: Businessman

Shareef Brothers are not participating.
Extremely Shareef Brothers are participating.
After election these extremely shareef will leave the seat for shareef brothers.
Also Bhai Bahan will join hands and lower cadre workers will as usual wait for a better time to come.
The promised prosperity which is siphoned to Banks in switzerland.

Khurram,

Dr.Sohail is an infidel, an athiest, a religion hater. If he weren't smiling so much, he would be a satanist.

Did you not know that?

Don't be fooled by the Arabic sounding name. He is a pagan through and through. BTW, Sohail in the prophet's time, was also a pagan, a jahilliya, a kafir. He was hellbent on destroying Islam. Later, he came to his senses and accepted Islam.

Dr. Sohail is working in reverse. He was a muslim who was hellbent on promoting Islam, then he decided to enjoy the jolly life. He quit Islam and became a Satanist, a devious practice which is areligious, and the adherents are taught extensive mind control and smiling techniques.

So there you are. That/'s the whole truth.

smiles.

(ThinkingStorm)

drsohail #75 you say that human rights and secularism come before democracy.

for the sake of argument, let us assume that this is true - the fact is that musharraf was trampling over that most fundamental of basic rights - the right to due process before law. And that is where the Chief Justice took a stand on behalf of basic rights. as for secularism - the fact is that lal masjid maulvis became the de facto law givers and the de facto law police in Islamabad, under musharraf's nose.

and the above are not isolated instances - incljuding musharraf's tilting elections in favor of maulvis (by permitting their rubber stamp madrassah degress to be accepted as BA), exiling mainstream party leaders while making deals with mma, and so on.

So - musharraf's dictatorship was taking Pakistan away from secularism and away from human rights. and before him was Zia..who was the very father of terrorism and who flogged journalists in public (and stopped only when he realized that this was not cowing down the journalists and instead building up public resentment against them).


As for your concern of mufti mahmood - NWFP did not become a taliban-like state after he came to power. he was constrained by the constitution, like all parties and all indivdiuals are. And not just Pakistan. Democracies often have religious parties coming to power - BJP in India, the current government in Turkey, the Christian Democratic Union in Germany, not to mention the neo-cons in the US. And they have been forced to stay within the constitution. So, i think your fears of the people being allowed to vote in NWFP are not justified.

What you have to fear is military dictatorships. Before them, nothing is sacred - except their own obsession with power and glory.

Re #75, drsohail,

What are you saying here? That religious people don't deserve democracy?