Fundamentalism and Violence

Dr sohail
Unfortunately in the west a whole industry has grown of pseudo-intellectuals to capitalise on demonising fundamentalist islam/ muslims, people like that Somali woman hersi ali as if muslims are the only one who are sexist or homophobes.

I salute the dutch for having realised the danger of having such people in their midst and stripped her of nationality and got rid of her.

aslam: the dutch went from one extreme (making her a member of the parliament) to another (throwing her out of the country on accout of her views). such political expediencies are hardly worth saluting.

muslims like hersi ali, even if one disagrees with some things she says, play and essential role to play in the expatriate community - challenge the religious orthodox whose understanding of islam and of the west reflects their own ignorance and their close-mindedness.

drsohail, can you please refrain from using the word 'creative'. Thanks.

#14 drsohail {"for me growing up in peshawar where there was no clean water to drink and i drank from a river where cows and humans swam together, driking clean water was a blessing and it was after reading mystic poetry i realized that the notion that water is odourless, tasteless and colourless was not true."}

Dr. Sohail Sahib,
Thank you for taking my suggestions in the context that I intended. Finally, with the extension of that analogy to a specific place with real animals, you have brought home a point effectively.

Writing about things that have nothing to do with reality and then becoming an expert at something about which one knows next to nothing is a wonderfully western concept. Only the west can keep producing "orientalists" who always seem to point south. :)
Please leave this craft to westerners and you just tell us about the water in Peshawar, the Kabul river, qissa khwani bazaar, and the wisdom of kabir das. Thanks and good writing, my friend.

Re: # 16
dear nature_lover...over the years i have realized that most of us went through social, religious and cultural conditioning by our families and communities. that is why most people die with the same faith and religion as their parents. our emotional and intellectual birth starts when we develop critical thinking (khurram...are you happy i used critical not creative...smiles)and develop a philosophy and lifestyle that is based on our own experiences. it is the process of leaving the highway of tradition and following the trail of our hearts. that is a new birth. a philosopher said...most of us die before we are fully born. all the best...sohail

Re: # 18
Minorities every where are vulnerable from majorities extremists.
It is the minorities who are discriminated against in jobs, housing, education etc.
Whether its muslims in europe or hindus in Malaysia and fiji.

I think the dutch found out that she was a liar and a fraud who was out to make a quick buck no real intellectual depth.

#17 Posted by aslam644 on December 10, 2007 2:12:56 pm


Unfortunately in the west a whole industry has grown of pseudo-intellectuals to capitalise on demonising fundamentalist islam/ muslims


The industry only exists because muslims get their undies in a knot at every perceived slight or insult to mo.

What happened to the danish cartoon editors? nothing..

the swedish guy who drew mo-dog? nothing..

not everyone in the west is willing to put up with this islamofascist BS..

aaa

For the interest of all.
Pakistan rich list. Top ten is interesting.

1 - Mian Muhammad Mansha Yaha Pakistan
Ranking: 1 Worth: £1.25b ($2.5billion)Industry: Businessman

2 - Asif Ali Zardari Pakistan
Ranking: 2 Worth: £900m ($1.8billion) Industry: Politics

3 - Sir Anwar Pervaiz UK
Ranking: 3 Worth: £750m ($1.5billion) Industry: Businessman

4 - Nawaz Sharif & Shahbaz Sharif family Saudi Arabia/Pakistan
Ranking: 4 Worth: £700m ($1.4billion) Industry: Politics/Businessman

5 - Saddaruddin Hashwani Pakistan
Ranking: 5 Worth: £550m ($1.1billion) Industry: Businessman

6 - Nasir Schon & family U.A.E/Pakistan
Ranking: 6 (tied at 6) Worth: £500m ($1billion) Industry: Businessman

7 - Abdul Razzaq Yakoub & family U.A.E
Ranking: 6 (tied at 6) Worth: £500m ($1billion) Industry: Businessman

8 - Rafiq Habib & Rasheed Habib Pakistan
Ranking: 7 Worth: £450m ($900) Industry: Businessman

9 - Tariq Saigol & Nasim Saigol Pakistan
Ranking: 8 Worth: £425m ($850) Industry: Businessman

10 - Dewan Yousaf Farooqui Pakistan
Ranking: 9 (tied at 9) Worth: £400m ($800) Industry: Businessman

#22 aslam: your post isnt very coherent - you seem to be berating hirsi for being a liar (which i assume she was when faking her immigration forms) on the one hand and berating the dutch for throwing her out on the other. in any cases - in both cases you are wrong.

from all indications, the real reason the dutch threw her out was because they did not want any more trouble between hirsi and the muslim orthodoxy. thus, the dutch were guilty of appeasement (of them dutch mullahs), not discrimination.

Re: # 17

"people like that Somali woman hersi ali as if muslims are the only one who are sexist or homophobes..."

Nonsense , apostates make cler distinction between the ideology of Islam and those who are its main victims - viz. the common muslims.
Hirsi Ali mainly writes against the ideology of Islam and its main beneficiaries - the practicing male muslims !!!

krashid1961 #25

[8 - Rafiq Habib & Rasheed Habib Pakistan
Ranking: 7 Worth: £450m ($900) Industry: Businessman]

Sir,
What is your source. As far as I know Rasheed Habib has been dead for ages and Rafiq Habib is one of the biggest defaulters in Pakistan. Moreover, both these gentlemen are from different families of the Habib Group who will not be seen dead together.

139222749-1
(I will give you reference. There are other sources with some variation. Teeth maestro is website)
Lets now see. Rich joining hands to further loot Pakistan.
Source Pakistani perspective
1-The Nishat Group
Mian Muhammad Mansha

2-The Jang Group

3-The Hashoo Group
Led by the vintage Saddaruddin Haswani

4-The Packages Group
The seed of this huge empire was sown by Syed Maratib All,

5-The House of Habib

6-The Saigols

7-Nawa-E-Waqt Group

8-The Saif Group
Is owned and operated by the sons of famous NWFP lady politician Begum Kalsum Saifullah

9-The Crescent Group
The history of this group dates back to 1910 when Shams Din of Chiniot

10-The Monnoo Group
The Monnoo dynasty was founded by two brothers-Dust Muhammad and Nazir Hussain

11-The Dewan Group

12-The Lakson Group
The Lakhanis are currently having a hard time at the hands of NAB. Sultan Lakhani

13-The Sapphire Group
Headed by a veteran industrialist Mian Abdullah

14-The Dawood Group
Was ranked Pakistan’s biggest group in 1970, 3rd in 1990 and 15th in 1997

15-The Best Way Group
Sir Anwar Pervaiz

16-The Haroon Family

17The Yunus Brothers
The Chairman of this group is Abdul Razzak Tabba

18-Gul Ahmad/Al-Karam Group

19-The Bawany Group

20-The Servis Group
Shahid Hussain

21-The Tata Family
Do not confuse the Tatas in Pakistan with their name-sake market leaders in India. Having migrated from Nepal Mehboob Elahi

22-The Alam Group
This establishment comprising three leather and two textile units is led by former President Karachi Chamber Shahzada Alam

23-The Guard Group
The 87-year old Malik Shafi,

24-The Ejaz Group
This establishment owns country’s largest knitwear-cum-dyeing facility at Lahore

25-The Tabani Family

26-The Tapal Group
Is headed by Aftab Tapal.

27-The Atlas Group
This group was founded by Yousaf Sherazi, a former Income Tax official

28-The Abid Group
Is run by Sheikh Abid Hussain alias Seth Abid.

29-The Sheikhani Family

30-The Dadabhoy Group
Abdul Ghani Dadabhoy

31-The Bahria Town (Pvt) Limited
Malik Riaz Hussain

32-Adamjee Group

33-Jahangir Siddiqui& Co
This firm has floated ABAMCO

34-The Din Group
The group is headed by S.M.Muneer

35-The Adil Group
Mian Adil Mehmood, who is married to Mian Mansha’s niece

36-Chenab Group
Mian Muhammad Latif

37-Sitara Group
Started its activity with textile weaving as early as 1956, under brothers Haji Abdul Ghafoor and Haji Bashir Ahmed.Sitara’s name with the industrial City of Faisalabad is synonymous

38-The Colony Group
Mian Muhammad lsmaeel Sheikh

39-Arif Habib Securities

40-Kassim Dada

Dear Dr. Sohail.

fortunately, I rarely visit FP, and hence, my useless pontifications do not litter the interact boards :).

Dr. Sohail, I must say first of all, that creating is better than critiquing, so you are already better off than I, as I am about to critique ;).

Okay, so, here are my 2 shiny pennies for you:

- Grow a fire in your belly
- Let it come roaring out in your articles.

Attend some black churches, catch some evangelist shows on tv, you gotta learn to drive that message home with suspense, humor, passion and energy.

At the moment, you seem to break everything down into points...Imagine MLK doing

1. A decleration

I have a dream that one day our children will be judged by the content of thier charachter and not the color of thier skin

2. The Reason

There comes a time when people get tired of getting trampled under the iron feet of opression.

3. The ramifications

So let us join hands and walk together, and make that little change, each one of us, that change that will change the world.


you know? So try not to break it into easy 99c wafer pack plain vanilla boring snippets for us. Trust your audience. We like to act stupid , and the truth is not far from how we act ;)

[oh oh, I am being smart alecky again :( ]
with much respect,
thinking storm

The British newspaper, Observer, on Sept. 27, 1998, published a report revealing that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has amassed a personal fortune siphoning off millions of dollars from his country's coffers. The Pakistani Federal Investigation Agency report, revealed to the paper by the FIA's suspended second in command Rahman Malik, was also sent to President Rafiq Tarar. The Observer said that the 200-page report was begun while Sharif was out of power but effectively stifled after he and his Islamic Democratic Alliance party returned to lead the country in February 1997. It said the investigation reveled how Sharif's assets included four flats in London's exclusive Mayfair, worth more than $5 million. More than $70 million was also said to have been traced to accounts and companies controlled by the family. The inquiry was focused on Sharif's Ittefaq group of companies, which grew rapidly during his first term in power in 1990-93. It was alleged that the group received billions of rupees in loans, which were not repaid. Around $8 million is said to be held offshore, and another $50 million in Switzerland. Explaining the modus operandi for money laundering by Sharif family, the report of Rehman Malik stated that Rs. 140 million were siphoned in collusion with Hawala group of Peshawar using the Bank of Oman. The money was repatriated in the form of FEBCs in the name of 43 family members, which include the mother, brother, sister and other close relatives of Mr. Nawaz Sharif.
During Sharif's second term, Pakistan was rated as one of the the most corrupt countries in the world by Transparency International.
The available evidence indicates that there was corruption in Sharif's administration.

#29 krashid Sahib,
...and what about the Chauhan Group led by my grandfather?

According to Hypo Chacha Al Butteesi, my grandfather came to Pakistan and looted departing Hindus and thus accumulated great wealth so that I could sit on Chowk day in and day out with nothing to do but make a complete ass out of Chacha Char Sau Bees.