Fall of Dacca

Re: # 134
Hear, hear!

#133 by muqaddam

Majumdar and Muqaddam bhais, not just the commies, but even the Congress, which entered into an alliance with these scoundrels just to come into power should be dumped.

Re # 129, 130

These scoundrel commies must be thrown into the Bay of Bengal, including Brinda Karat, Bardhan et al, all having extra-territorial loyalties

Pakistan kay Baigharat Rahbar



i got very nice e mail from a friend.please read it:-----

Pray for Malik Abdul Qayyum Attorney General.

A wolf in the sheep of skin

Attorney General of Pakistan is suffering from a chronic disease; he is dutiful and leaves no stone unturned for the pleasure of his lords that he did not care for his ailing health and at last by squeezing constitution and fitting a rod in a generals represented him as president.

Previously he went to Saudi Arabia for the forgiveness of his sins, but bosses kept him busy in negotiations with Saudis in connection with stopping Mian Nawaz, so he had no time to pray for his sins. Due to continuous official assignments he failed to care to his very serious illness.

Cure of his suffering is usually available in Africa, because this disease was transmitted to humans from monkeys. He is now billionaire, equal to or less then Benazir in wealth, so for him treatment is not a big game.

Since childhood Malik Abdul Qayyum was involved in bad society, today he is number one authority wise in ranking, army chief and generals were lick spitting on his shoes, he had the power to appoint or remove Chief justice, he filled supreme and high courts with silly wild boars (Judges).

It is true that HIV is a very bad disease, Musharraf also under go such test in US. Now when billion of dollars are in hand of Malik Abdul Qayyum, God is testing his patience. South Africa could be a good place for treatment.

Pray for his health positively. Dictators need such genius thugs to prolong their rule. Before infection Malik Abdul Qayyum left no (false) path to tear and torn constitution. Peoples who say that above disease is dangerous, apparently it did not true, because in case of Malik Qayyum, he did not seek any leave, even for a single day. May God recover from bad HIV disease like Musharraf is recovered?

Male cat’s life (Billay ki Jan)

There are many more top guns in Mush’s companionship, which have drunk “AAb e Hayat” (Mortal water), peoples are waiting but those are crossing sixties, seventies then eighties, generals which retired in our childhood still alive, sucking Military hospitals and Viagra’s free of cost, but God did not call them to heaven (Wretched of the earth). Such peoples have life of male cat, try, if you will beat, put in water or harm in any way, after some time Cat(usually male) will open one eye and stand up or try to drag. Our unfortunate nation has dozens of peoples with life of Male Cat (Billay ki Jan). Those usually take rounds of president house and on each visit, find some foolish “so called patriot general” in uniform to educate him methods to torn law and constitution. Some of which could be found around GHQ, president camp office or president sect.

Sheriff ud Din Pirzada: When he born first thing his mother gave him was soup of cat. He neither dies nor leaves the nation to think independently. Out of total stipend received for war on terror at least one quarter has gone in his pocket for teaching lessons of constitution.

S.M.Zaffar and family: This is also a famous family, singers, dancers, prostitutes and each type of profession this family has. Goal of all such family is to teach lesson of constitution and law to nation. Famous lawyers including Malka Pukhraj, Tahira Syed, Roshan Zafar and Nayeem Bokhari are the creed of this family. One in laws was secretary Defense committee (Brother of Tahira Syed); one is incharge of sports Saleem Altaf. Musharraf and Yahya type peoples like this class around them to tear and torn constitution.

Gujarat Mafia: “Naag e Deen”, “Naang e Millat” and “Naang e Insaniyat”, shameless and world repute sycophants, this group is “naang e namoos”, architect of brutal murder of Nawab Akbar Bugti, Jamia Hafsa, Karachi massacre and many semis legal terrorist activities were designed and completed by them. Return of Mian Nawaz from Islamabad airport was solely their plan. All cases against Benazir when Ch: Shujaat was Home Minister were cultivated.

Waseem Sajjad: This a permanent constipation for the nation, who brought him? And why he is sticking with parliament? No body knows, he appears from salve routes (Ghulam Gardish) and join dictator, then disappear. Who is this person; neither had he contested any general election. He is a permanent leech which sucks blood of nation.

Majnoon (insane) group: There are many politicians for which a complete medical and physiatrist test is essentially required. But those again and again appear on the scene of government. Kamil Ali Agha, Sher Afghan Niazi (Pagal e Azam), Wasi Zaffar (Long arm of Qunoon), Lt Gen Javed Ashraf (Forty siparas of Quran), Ghulam Sarwar Khan (Procured degree of B.A), Khurshid Ahmad Qasoori (When Mush started campaign of Sufi ism, he stated that his mother is Brelvi, and started to teach book “Amma Ji” mother of Mush), Ch: Shahbaz Husain as a minister distributed condoms to celebrate election of president, Babar Khan Ghouri and Shamim Haider, both swindlers of MQM, famous terrorists. Ghazi Gulab Jamal terrorist, other gifts in previous cabinet were including Neelofar Bakhtiar, Jammat e Islami’s Mahmood Durrani, Shahid Jamil Qureshi (Murderer), Hina Rabbani Khar (Girl friend of PM), Ijaz ul Haq, Omar Ayub, and Humayun Akhtar Khan descendents of dictators. Aftab Ahmed Sherpao and Faisal Saleh Hayat (both NAB defaulters), Anisa Zeb Taher Kheli and Mehnaz Rafi (Actress and dancers)

Tariq Azeem Khan (famous alcoholic and mental case), Umar Ghumman (deserter), Dr. AAmir Liaqat Husain (fake moulvi and fake PhD). Zafar Iqbal Warraich (terrorists). Salman Shah and Shakuit Aziz (both were appointed by neo-cons). There list is so long in Army Tariq Majeed (Butcher) and Ashfaq Parvez Kiyani (Abductor) is also pre-qualified from Washington, including DG ISI, MI and IB.









AG in London for medical check-up (18-12-2007)

LONDON: Attorney General Justice (retd) Malik Muhammad Qayyum arrived here on a short visit for his medical check-up, the Pakistan High Commission sources said on Monday. The sources told the reporters that the country's top legal officer was on a private visit and would undergo medical check-up.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=11796

TOP SECRET

INTELLIGENCE BUREAU
GOVERNMENT OF PAKISTAN
94-UPPER MALL, LAHORE
No. ARV/2001/01 Dated 29-1-2001



The President,
Islamic Republic of Pakistan,
ISLAMABAD

THROUGH PROPER CHANNEL

SUBJECT: SHEER ABUSE OF POWER/ABUSE OF JUDICIARY.
Respected Sir,
I would like to bring it to your kind notice that I am an officer of Intelligence Bureau cadre and have been raised to the rank of Deputy Director out of my sheer hard work. I have always worked honestly, professionally and with full devotions. All my seniors will endorse the high level of my efficiency, professionalism and integrity. I have always pointed out any wrong doings irrespective of any pressure of my seniors. I have no political affiliations, whatsoever.
I, being a conscientious officer, would like to state that an extra-ordinary situation has compelled me to address you directly as I feel that this very sensitive and important matter, which may have very deep impact on the future and present functioning of the judiciary and politics of Pakistan, needs to be dealt at your level. I am constrained to inform you that during my long service career in a very sensitive organization I have never come across of any such occasion where I was a witness to sheer abuse of state institutions including judiciary of Pakistan by any Chief Executive of the country for the mere satisfaction of his/her personal ego and vendetta. In the instant case, some important dignitaries of the past and the present are involved who have not only violated the Constitution of Pakistan but also crossed other human and legal limits. They have also violated the provisions of their oath, which they took while taking-over their high offices. They have committed such a crime, which no nation on the earth would ever tolerate.
The highly undesirable incident, which I am going to narrate below, in fact, relates to the trial of the Opposition Leader and former Prime Minister of Pakistan Ms. Benazir Bhutto and her spouse conducted by the Accountability Court headed by Mr. Justice Malik Abdul Qayyum of the Lahore High Court. The events which have really shaken my conscious and will also shake you and the whole nation are being summarized below.

With the start of the trial of Ms. Benazir Bhutto and her spouse in SGS Reference in the Accountability Court headed by Mr. Justice Malik Abdul Qayyum, the then Government ordered the Intelligence Sub-Bureau, Lahore for the monitoring of all the office, home and mobile telephones of Mr. Justice Malik Abdul Qayyum in order to keep him under constant observation. Accordingly, I, being the head of the section responsible for the observation/bugging of the telephones, started tapping the telephones of Mr. Justice Malik Abdul Qayyum.

First of all Mr. Khalid Anwar called Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum and told that "Somebody is unhappy over the delay of hearing of this case. He has complained about the case to Saif that nothing has been done so far and why has it not been concluded." He informed the judge that "the gentleman [Mian Nawas Sharif] was very unhappy" and asked the judge that "Now I am thinking if you could reach the final result within the outside limit of two weeks" and "So get it done on Monday". In response, Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum informed the Minister that "It is being done on Monday. After this we have to give them some time for defense evidence and then the matter will be closed."
During his first conversation with Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum, Mr. Saif-ur-Rehman directed him that "Kindly doesn’t do one thing. Please don't give any further date." to which the judge promised that "Now we are not going to give dates. We are going to finish it by the Grace of God. You don't worry.” In a conversation with his wife, Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum told her that "They have said, remove him" and on a further explanation by her wife, the judge stated that Nawaz Sharif has ordered for his removal because "They [Mian Nawaz Sharif] say that he has changed his loyalty." When on his advice the wife of Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum informed Malik Pervez (brother of Justice Malik Qayyum) of this development, he remarked that "But this is Blackmailing" and while agreeing with him, the wife of Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum concluded that "Yes you are right; this is the limit that justice should not be done and only what they want should be done".
In a subsequent conversation with Malik Pervez, Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum informed him that "Regarding the matter of judgment which you know, your friend the biggest boss (Nawaz Sharif) is specially sending two men, one Mehdi and other Pappu (Saif)" to the Chief Justice to ensure "that it should be done with in two days".
In a separate conversation with Mr. Saif-ur-Rehman asked Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum "... we need a place when our man can sit. Kindly permit our man to sit in the room next to your room" to which the judge told him that he "would tell Khawar Sahib". Mr. Saif-ur-Rehman then told the judge that "Then I am going to depute the man Feroz shah who will contact Khawar". When the Judge discusses this development/requirement with the Chief Justice, the Chief Justice remarked that "If we avoid it, it is better for us otherwise the noose will be around our neck if this thing is exposed". Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum in reply told him that "Khawar says that we can place the machine in the Registrar's room" like "when you did it, it was also like this".
Mr. Saif-ur-Rehman, in a separate conversation conveyed the directions of the Prime Minister to Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum and told him that "He [Mian Nawaz Sharif] has asked me to tell you for Monday" and asked him "Whatever you told me before, do exactly like that". Mr. Justice replied that "I am trying my best. You don't worry. You know how sincerely we are trying".
Besides external/political pressure, Mr. Justice Rashid Aziz, the then chief Justice of Lahore High Court was also used to pressurize Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum. In a telephonic conversation, Mr. Justice Rashid Aziz informed Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum that "Yesterday when I went there, Mr. Yasir Arafat had come. He was busy with him in a meeting. He [Mian Nawaz Sharif] said just wait for ten minutes, twenty minutes, and half an hour. We will talk after lunch" and told Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum that "He [Nawaz Sharif] is a bastard". When Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum enquired about the conversation, Mr. Justice Rashid Aziz told him that "he [Nawaz Sharif] says it has to be tomorrow" and enquired from Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum "Is everything ready?". When Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum asked the Chief Justice that "You should have told him that it would finish only after they finish (defense evidence)" the Chief Justice told him that "He was saying that just do it".
When Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum could not announce the judgment on the pre-determined day Mr. Saif-ur-Rehman called him and asked that "You were supposed to do it today". Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum replied to him that "For your sake I had to beg her lawyer. I told him that I have to go abroad, I am not feeling well but I have to finish it first". When Mr. Saif-ur-Rehman expressed displeasure over delay Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum asked him to "handle him [Mian Nawaz Sharif] and stated that "By the grace of God, this will be done and then both of us will go to him [Mian Nawaz Sharif] and seek forgiveness". Mr. Saif-ur-Rehman asked the same judge to "Give me 100% confirmation that it will be done tomorrow". In the same conversation Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum asked him about the punishment required to be awarded to which Mr. Saif-ur-Rehman told him that "whatever you have been told by him [Mian Nawaz Sharif]" i.e. "Not less than 7 years". Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum suggested to him that the maximum punishment is not appropriate as "Seven is the maximum punishment and no body awards maximum" and requested Mr. Saif to ask him [Mian Nawaz Sharif] to which he promised to le him (Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum) know. In the same conversation Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum informed Mr. Saif that "I have already done about the fine and confiscation of the properties" and "their disqualification also". Mr. Saif-ur-Rehman informed him that "Now more important is the state of madness in which he [Mian Nawaz Sharif] is" to which Justice Malik Qayyum requested him to "Beg forgiveness on my behalf". Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum assured him that "Under all circumstances it will be done tomorrow. We are going to announce the judgement".
In a separate conversation, Mr. Rashid Aziz described the madness of the Prime Minister to Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum and told him that "You can't understand. Do you know what he [Mian Nawaz Sharif] is going to say? He is going to issue warrants for both of us. He has specially called me and told to advice you that what are you doing?" In reply Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum informed the Chief Justice that "90% I will try my best to finish it tomorrow". Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum went on assuring the Chief Justice in the words "OK. Tomorrow I will, even if have to push it". The Chief Justice told the judge that he has told him [Nawaz Sharif] that"It is already written and lying with us. He can sign it for you on it and you can keep it with you".
In another conversation with Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum, Mr. Saif-ur-Rehman told the judge that he had asked him [Mian Nawaz Sharif] about the punishment to which he had directed to tell you that "Give them full dose". Mr. Saif-ur-Rehman also informed the judge that "When I inquired about five or seven, he said I should ask you whey you would not like to give them full dose". Explaining the strategy for the next day (the day of the announcement of the judgement) Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum informed Mr. Saif that "Whole day will be given. After eleven (11:00 AM), we would tell him to finish. After the interval at 11:00 AM, even if they disagree, we will not care" and "We will tell them, say whatever they want to say in their defence. It (order) is already prepared in written". The judge went on explaining and stated that "So after half an hour, we will come back and announce it". Mr. Saif-ur-Rehman then suggested to him that "Give the brief tomorrow but try to cover the maximum the brief the judgement".
When the trial of Ms. Benazir Bhutto was over, Mr. Shahbaz Sharif, the then Chief Minister of Punjab rang up the judge and told that "I made a request to you" to which the judge replied that "Sir, I did finish that". Mr. Shahbaz Sharif then informed him that "thank you very much. The matter regarding Ch. Sarwar [MNA], my elder brother has asked me to tell you that Sarwar should be favoured [in his disqualification case]" to which Mr. Justice Malik Qayyum promised that "It's done, as desired by Mian sahib. As per his desire the matter is finished".
During this process of close day to day observation of his phones, I was astonished to note that the judge was being dictated to obtain a judgement of their choice against Ms. Benazir Bhutto and Mr. Asif Ali Zardari by the then Federal Law Minister Mr. Khalid Anwar, Chairman Accountability Bureau, Mr. Saif-ur-Rehman and the then Chief Justice of Lahore High Court, Mr. Justice Rashid Aziz, under the orders of from then Prime Minister of Pakistan Mian Muhammad Nawaz Sharif, to hastily conclude the trial, announce conviction of Ms. Benazir Bhutto and her spouse with maximum punishment or seven years and forfeiture of her entire property. The Honourable Judge was pressurized to the extent that once he was called by the then Chief Justice of Lahore High Court at his residence to convey that Mr. Nawaz Sharif has asked to remove him (Mr. Justice. Malik Abdul Qayyum) as he (Mian Nawaz Sharif) has become doubtful of his loyalties. The Honourable Judge ultimately succumbed to the pressure and announced pre-written judgement against Ms. Benazir Bhutto and her husband by violating all norms of Justice, provisions of the Constitution of Pakistan and fair-play.
The whole conversation of these important Cabinet Ministers and the judges was part of the official record of the Intelligence Sub-Bureau, Lahore. I am also enclosing my affidavit along with 60-minutes recorded tape and its transcription with the view to assist your kind honour to proceed against two sitting judges, one of the Supreme Court of Pakistan and the other of Lahore High Court, respectively, former Prime Minister of Pakistan Mian Muhammad Nawaz Sharif, Chairman Accountability Bureau Mr. Saif-ur-Rehman and the then Federal Law Minister Mr. Khalid Anwar.
I would also like to state that I have taken on against the most powerful group of politicians, two corrupt and immoral judges and hence I apprehend that I along with my family members are going to be harassed and victimized besides a serious danger to my life too. I also fear that the authorities in the Intelligence Bureau may try to terminate my services on false grounds but fact remains that I am just doing my duty by exposing to you bad elements in our judiciary. I, therefore, appeal to your honour to provide me protection and security against all such dangers. The aforementioned corrupt characters have not only brought bad name to the judiciary itself but also the image of our great nation. I would also like to make it clear that I have no motives whatsoever but I just want you to know as to what kind of havoc is being played by such people who had made mockery of justice without fear of the Almighty Allah.
In the light of the above facts, I would request: to your honour to kindly take necessary and appropriate action into the matter.
In the end I would once again like to reiterate the fact that I have no motives whatsoever in exposing these bad elements as I, being a civil servant, was duty bound to bring the wrong-doings of such like undesirable characters to the notice of such authorities which I am confident would take necessary action. I would also request you to kindly keep this summary confidential till you have taken a final action against them.
Thanking you In anticipation and I am confident that your kind honour, being the custodian of the Constitution of Pakistan and a former judge of the apex court of the country, would definitely proceed in the matter in accordance with the law.
Yours obediently,
[Signature]
(A. RAHIM)
Deputy Director/IB
Encl:

1. Copy of the transcript.
2. 65 Minutes recorded tape.
3. Affidavit.

http://cryptome.sabotage.org/pkib-bhutto.htm



cc:

1. Gen. Pervez Musharraf, The Chief Executive of Pakistan, Islamabad.
2. Honourable Chief Justice of Pakistan, Islamabad.
3. Maj. Gen. Rafi-ullah Khan Niiazi, Director General, Intelligence Bureau, Govt. of Pakistan, Islamabad.
4. Mr. Jehangir Mirza, Joint Director General, PPHQ-IB Lahore.

Sd/-
(A. RAHIM)
Deputy Director/IB

There are thousand of stories of so called noble class spread around us. Fake president ship of Musharraf, lickspittle Army Generals, every body is naked here.
Earthman
International Professor

Harishbhai,

I said commies which include Prakash Karat as well. Of course on their side they wud have to throw in Aunty Shamim, Begum N Ali and those Geo TV reporters as well.

Regards

Harishbhai,

I said commies which include Prakash Karat as well. Of course on their side they wud have to throw in Aunty Shamim, Begum N Ali and those Geo TV reporters as well.

Regards

Majumdar bhai, how could you forget the swine Prakash Karat??

Muqqadam,

Re: 127

We will swap these wannabe "South Korean" Pakis with our wannabe "North Korean" Injuns- the commies, Arundhati Roy, Media Patkar, Praful Bidwai and the rest of the gang.

Deal???

Regards

On http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1187/913075687_c48c8e7f98.jpg?v=0 we can see only the torsos of the Pakistani chicks, are they dressed lower down as American cheerleaders, too? That's where the resemblance would be determined.

#125 is by Zeemax.

#123 Posted by pavocavalry,

I see your posts being red-flagged too as being offensive. This is the kind of skill-less lowlifes we have on chowk.

Now to the subject:

Inshallah when the us army occupies pakistan physically as planned by musharraf and benazir pakistani spending on its useless army will also go down and pakistan will also become south korea.hopefully as the rulers plan pakistani girls will also play as important a part as their korean counterparts.

In my assessment, this was the fault line which exploded in the Lal Masjid rebellion.

There was a football match between the Quetta team and the Karachi team right after the Op Silence. Cheerleaders were arranged to dance with pom poms in the stadium, dressed to resemble the US college cheerleadres. I thought this was very significant in musharraf's overall policy direction. For your convenience, I am posting this in the gallery too. In case it is deleted by chowk, the image URL is http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1187/913075687_c48c8e7f98.jpg?v=0

What do you think?

Amin sahib,

Pakistan will become another South Korea if the Pakis want to. Not merely because USA or any other country is occupying it. USA is "occupying" A'stan and Iraq and I dont see either country becoming a SK.

But one thing is pretty clear, at least some countries occupied by USA become South Koreas, no countries occupied by Russians ever went on to become another South Korea.

Regards

Re: # 121 i am not a perfectionist so contradictions do noy disturb me.in 1857 even after rebelling the sepoys wore their old uniforms and played british tunes.pavocavalry is a contradiction.however we have to admit that regiments were a british institution.

pakistan on the other hand is an undoubted failure.korea was developed well because the threat that the americans faced was far more serious thee and the americans were physically occupying it with their army.thus korean spending on army was very less.korean girls were giving good service to american soldiers.my korean girlfriend told me about this .Inshallah when the us army occupies pakistan physically as planned by musharraf and benazir pakistani spending on its useless army will also go down and pakistan will also become south korea.hopefully as the rulers plan pakistani girls will also play as important a part as their korean counterparts.

"Unfortunately for us, we have never had a Park Chung Hee, only Ayubs, Zias and Musharrafs."

Fuzair Mian Extremely well said. I once mentioned this to a group of Retired and Serving Senior Indian Millitary Officers. "The gr8st threat to India would be a Paki Park Chung Hee".

With the exception of 1 no one had heard of General Park. When 1 explained who was Park then they were so dismissive of Genral Park and said there is no comparison between Korea and India. (Of course there is no comparison India till 1965 was well ahead of Korea in all parameters and indices).

Then the 1 guy who had heard of and actually met Genral Park came and sat next to me and said you see these Chooths well Paki aint very different from us. Do you think these scum will produce a General Park. This person had spent time with the Indian Peace Keepers in Korea then gone back in the mid 60's to be unofficial Defence Attache and then post retirement went to Do his Phd from Korea in the late/end 70's. He had seen General Park (Col Park in the earliest avtar) have a look bordering on reverence towards the Indians (for the Korean war PK role) to one of undisguised contempt for their failure to move millions out of poverty and continue with rheotric most of it meaningless and empty.

Now comes a second part to this. A couple of years later at a Diwali party in Mumbai 1 met a Korean who was the boss of the host a distinguished retired naval commodore. This commodore was the elder brother of one of the Maj Generals who was loudest in cussing me for my remark on Gen Park and was present there. I toasted General Park to the Korean and while his wife frowned angrily the Korean broke into a broad smile and bowed. At this his wife got agitated and loudly cursed him in Korean, the Man also said something in Korean to his wife who immediately looked downcast and sheepish. The host asked his boss what happened and without knowing Korean I told him his wife cursed him for drinking a toast to General Park and I said the man replied without Gen Park we would be as welcome as a North Korean in a party if at all we got invited to 1.

The commodores btother the Maj Gen then closetted the Korean and asked Please tell me about this Gen Park.

Regards
Sanatani
P.S. And may Allah ensure there is never a Pakistani Park Chung Hee

Major Sahib,

I understand, if not fully agree with, your extreme reaction to British imperialism in India but I am curious about one thing. You use PAVOCavalry as your nick. PAVO is, of course, Prince Albert Victor's Own Cavalry (11 FF). Given that it, until 1956, wore simply PAVO as its shoulder badge (that's how proud they were of being PAVO), why do you use 'PAVO' as your nom de email? Surely you do not glory in their Imperial affiliation and are not proud of their service in suppressing the Mutiny or their Afghan War battle honours? I assume you were commisioned into PAVO or have a family claim on it but surely this is not enough for you to want to claim its imperial history as your own?

Not being facetious here, I am curious.

In another post I had written that the foreign policy tragedy of Pakistan is not that its governments 'sold out' to the Americans but that they sold out so cheaply! Look at S. Korea, they were completely allied to the US, even sending two infantry divisions and a reinforced Marine brigade to Vietnam, but they extracted a really good price from the Americans for it. Unfortunately for us, we have never had a Park Chung Hee, only Ayubs, Zias and Musharrafs.

Urstruly,

In the last few years, I can't even count the number of times I have destroyed your 'arguments' (lets call them that, instead of ravings) without even bothering to raise a sweat. However, this is really no credit to me since even a child could do so with ease.

FakirIpi, I shall ignore as I ignore all such pathetic people.

amin ji, dash probably, actaully, I am quite sure, means the compliment in #111 sincerely.

Sir, you came here at a time when real ideological opposition to you is absent. Not sure if that is good or bad, but one good consequence has been that people actually got to read a lot of your stuff without being drowned and distracted in irrelevant trivialities.

In welcoming you I had probably mentioned that chowk is essentially an ideological battleground. In this kind of place people use every imaginable rhetorical trick to control, failing which, gladly derail discussions.

Nevertheless, we can only benefit from your presence among us.

#116 Posted by pavocavalry:

There is indeed a tendency to act "top dog", and it is at times tempting to get into a "tu tu mein mein" seies of interacts. Nevertheless, I at times, and I can only speak about myself here, find the process humbling. And I must confess that I have learnt a lot from the interacts ... and have very often been guilty of going straight to the interacts section without reading the article.

#115 Posted by pavocavalry:

You do have a point.

Regards.

Re: # 115 to reinforce my point i give you example of M/s Nikhat 's article on Hijab.Instead of talking logic some interactors used very vulgar language while interacting with her.How do you explain this.I wrote interacts and instead of using logic i was told that i am a lowly major .What kind of intellectual discussion is this ?

Re: # 114 with utmost respect my humble submission sir is that most of the interacts on this forum are done without reading you from A to Z and just based on criticism for criticism's sake.As a matter of fact there are some self proclaimed champions on this site who think that every one else is just talking nonsense.In case anyone has to interact he can e mail me sir.

#113 Posted by pavocavalry:

Thank you for posting your articles in your i-log. If you are interested in interacting, then could you please allow for "interactions". You could do so by clicking on some button or the other.

Cheers.

Re: # 111 i dont know if the articles are wondeful at all or you are being sarcastic my Lord ! However there are some pricks not happy with my ilogs also! Thanks for the feedback sir.

further to #110
"munafqeen" = "seditionist", which is mush-talk for anyone who challenges musharraf's "right" to continue to be the unelected and illegal "president" of Pakistan!!

Re: # 56

Thank you Pavocavalry. Sir you are an extremely Honourable Man. A kind we can all do business with.

Thank you once more, for hearing us out, and doing the right thing. This case using the Ilog Space of Chowk for your wonderful articles.
Now we can all read them at leisure and not miss a cue or beat - even after these articles have gone to chowk heaven

"munafiqeen" - mullah-talk for anyone who dares to challenge the mullah's "right" to decide what is islam and what is anti-islam.

bs!!

Re: # 103 HP has been properly dealt with.All he had was unrefined shit to offer.Stinking , really constipated man.

Re: # 95 urstruly u are right , fuzair and HP and all these munafiqeen are hollow men , intellectually barren , talking bullshit , just for trying to prove that they are hell of intellectuals , men with no ideas , just barren , baanjh as they say in urdu old women .

Re: # 95

It does not matter what label one wears - communist, hindu, libral, or Islamist - as long as one is fair, objective, and be able to support his argument with evidence. It does not matter if one has an agenda because everybody does.

Au contraire what have you and your ilk has done except spewing piss and vinager and frothing at mouth day in and day out at chowk ruining totally what could have been the starting point in the rennaissance of our national intellectual discourse. Your ilk is frightened and defeated people. Deal with it.

Re: # 105 Bhai Jan ,if you read A.H Amin's article in one of the inteacts carefully he has quoted a person no less than Indian Western Command Chief in 1971 General Candeth who admitted in his book that had the Pakistanis launched a pre-emptive attack in september or october 1971 all Indian plans to attack East Pakistan would have gone to winds.I think you have a poor eyesight and limited attention span.

Re: # 36

A smart lot, these Moplas. There was this guy called Abdul Aziz Kutty in the academy. The drill ustad was a Muslim and the DS a Malyali officer. On the drill square AAK always wore a name tag "K Abdul Aziz" and where the DS was conducting a lecture it was "AA Kutty".
Many old Moplas who migrated to Pakistan have come back to India and refuse to go back because they want to become Indian citizens and live in God's Own Country.

The Pakistani army officer whose interview has been reproduced at #53 should get the whiner of the century award. He must remember that a success is a success whichever way you look at it,whereas there no justifying defeat particularly when it is so humiliating as in '71. He is also indulging in self deception when he says the ceasefire offered by India should not have been accepted and peace should have been agreed to not until territory equal to East Pakistan had been captured by Pakistani army on the western(India's) front. A large chunk of the Indian army from the Bangladesh sector had already begun to redeploy in the Punjab sector in the immediate aftermath of Dacca's fall, so any thoughts of capturing territory in the West was only wishful thinking on the part of a retired Pakistani officer who unfortunately never was a part of a winning force throughout his life. In fact Pakistan would have ended losing a large part of whatever was left on the western side had the ceasefire not been accepted.

#95 Posted by fuzair

... Zeemax and your ilk. Don't get too cozy with the Major. He is really a true-blue communist, not an Arab-Salafi apologist.

When did I say he was? Neither am I BTW. It is just shallowness of the interactors who refuse to see beyond trashy and stereotyped demonization of the Islamist movement as something purely rooted in religious dogma.

I have said many times that it is the same political armed struggle for the cause of socio-economic justice as was communism, but with the difference that the immense motivation provided by a base of religious sanction makes it a lot more potent. In all the Islamic insurgencies around the world, the main cause is liberation and not the establishment of an ideological Ummah (though nothing wrong with it if it was!)

# 92 by HP,

Shall it be assumed you have withdrawn your title of 'Lowly Major' for Pavocavlry? :)

#101 by majumdar

That "someone" was me on UP (I had picked it up on dawn) and the cause incidentally of all things was Khilafat!!!

Sorry Majumdar bhai, I forgot it was you :-)

Harishbhai,

(Someone posted a letter (to the Viceroy perhaps) by Jinnah here in which he signs off as "we remain your humble servants" or something like that. )

That "someone" was me on UP (I had picked it up on dawn) and the cause incidentally of all things was Khilafat!!!

Regards

#82 by zeemax

Syed Ahmed Khan (I don't call him Sir) had proclaimed himself in a letter to the Viceroy to be a dog at the feet of the British.

Someone posted a letter (to the Viceroy perhaps) by Jinnah here in which he signs off as "we remain your humble servants" or something like that.

Re: # 91 Thanks .This piece was first printed in www.orbat.com and later in nation in June 2002 and again in August 2002.In orbat it outraged a large number of americans who sent some very angry responses.

Re: # 94 I have sent them all of these many days ago sir.

Re: # 95 The British did save the Muslims .That was the sad twist of fate.However this does not mean that the Muslims could remain British toadies for long.And this is what happened in many regions.

Re: # 92 Noted sir . Thanks.

Dear Major Sahib,

You yourself have written that the British, in effect, saved the Muslims of India from the Hindus/Sikhs. Punjab was ruled by the Sikhs and the Padishah Emperor was a de facto vassal of the Mahrattas. So, if the Muslims hadn't flocked to the service of the British (which they actually didn't but lets assume they did), we'd all be say Ram Ram and worshipping monkeys and drinking cow urine instead of giving ourselves concussions by banging our heads on the grounds five times a day. I personally prefer concussions to cow piss.

BTW, Urstruly, Zeemax and your ilk. Don't get too cozy with the Major. He is really a true-blue communist, not an Arab-Salafi apologist. He wants to stamp out Islam the same way Bush does, just for different reasons.

Regards.

Re: # 85 Agha Amin

Sir, would you consider posting some of your iLog posts into FP so there could be a discussion?

I have only read one piece, about the looming disintegration of Pakistan. Sadly, albeit with some reservations about the Lal Masjid affair, I agree with most of what you say. I have been saying similar things in my posts here, and in other Pak forums.

#88 Posted by Urstruly on December 18, 2007 10:32:34 am


And I expect that they will fight tooth to nail before fleeing to Dubai and Canada.


Maulana sahab: the "cantonment kuttas", as echoboom would call them, are sitting pretty in islamabad an rawalpindi while you're in flint michigan, paying taxes to the great satan...in fact, it's your taxes that probably purchased the white phosphorus that baked the ninja chix..

#89 Posted by pavocavalry

You need to submit some of your articles to chowk for publishing. Some concepts are worth discussing. I cant read them all now.
Holidays are coming and I will have time to go over your articles and discuss your ideas.

Thanks.

#84 Posted by pavocavalry,

I read all your iLogs. Favourite quote:

WHAT USA SEEKS TO DESTROY

If we are in any case condemned to be sub humans in a world order dominated by the G-7 and have no other recourse but to fight with bomb, dagger or suicide explosive pack then so be it.

Jala kay Mashal-i-Jaan, Hum Junoon-Sifaat Chalay. Jo Ghar ko aag lagaay, hamarey saath chalay.

Wah, beton, wah!

This Ménage à trois between Urstruly, Pavocalvary, and Zeemax brings tears of joy to your eyes.

Mardoodon, Pakistan ka kya matlab? Islam is a binding force and should be the primary motive here. Urstruly, you being a jinahdi almost fidayeen, should understand this.

But see you you trois together scratching each others back should make people realise what is really at stake here.

Army forever.

Pakistan Army Paindabad.

yes sir , i think 2008 and 2009 will be very bloody years.

Re: # 87

Unfortunately, I do not see one single man in this class of oppressors to realize that a magna carta is badly needed to keep their own heads on their shouldres in a very near future. East Pakistan episode should have been a wake up call and almost all of them managed to save their heads not because they were smart but because of the geography of the two parts of the coutry. Now there remains no such luxury any more. And I expect that they will fight tooth to nail before fleeing to Dubai and Canada.

Re: # 86 Mohtaram you are right . When I wrote in 1998 perhaps the situation was not as bad.Now our so called leaders are pointer dogs of usa.

And in another of his article:The impact of 1857-59.... Pavo writes:

The Pakistanis have only two options today, either to destroy the class of army generals, civil servants, intelligence agencies, industrialists and landlords who have been making a fool out of the common man in the name of Islam etc. etc. or let the five or six nationalities on their own taking care of themselves. This farce in the name of religion cannot go on.

I would say that it is not even a choice anymore. It is an inevitability.

Re: # 83 Thanks for reading sir.

Re: # 82- Zeemax , thanks for reading and understanding.Many guys on this site brand you as this or that without even reading what you wrote.

Re: # 82

That is a very insightful article by Pavocavlary. Here is the crux of all arguments:

We have too many educated people, many driving taxis and many doing petty jobs to make the ends meet! Pakistan's problem is that it is still ruled by the descendants of the same class that collaborated with the British in 1857 and from 1857 to 1947 , whether they are Lehgaris, Noons, Tiwanas, Syeds, Bhuttos or any one that matters ! The army that rules Pakistan was essentially a British recruited mercenary force which was staunchly loyal to the British whether fighting against Muslims in 1857, in the pre 1947 tribal areas, at Jallianwalla Bagh and now to the Americans in Afghanistan or Iraq! If Sepoy Jahan Khan could be hired for seven rupees a month, today the Americans can hire this army for may be 1,000/- USD per month!

Good job Pavo.

Borrowing this thread:

Pavocavlry's iLog as below belongs on FP.

"Musharraf Sir Syed and appeasing the West"

Syed Ahmed Khan (I don't call him Sir) had proclaimed himself in a letter to the Viceroy to be a dog at the feet of the British.

That indeed, he was.

Thanks yaar VRV..the pics are nice. I would love to visit the place some day.

http://offroadpakistan.com/pictures/hingol_2005/group_photo_6.html

Boyz and Gaals mix freely in Balochistan/Sindh. It's almost like India :)

Harish,

U can 'see' the Hingol temple in this link. If u remember Jaswant Singh and his BJP team went on pilgrimage.

http://offroadpakistan.com/pictures/hingol_2005/

Yaar Tigram, thanks for the information. How are Hindus treated in general in Pakistan? We know a little from media reports, but I would love to hear directly from you.

the baloch generally hate the pakistani punjabi-hindustani establishment.lets have simultaneous plebiscites in kashmir and balochistan i would say !

there are large number of hindus in sindh and balochistan.leading hindu family kureja prominnt in gulf is from Kandahar.intermarriage is among hindus.the holiest hindu site Hinglaj is in Makran as u know.Language depends on area.My father spoke Balochi while i can understand pashto and I speak urdu and farsi.

Tigram,

A little bit about Baloch Hindus wud be much appreciated. What language do they speak at home and at work? What do they look like-(relatively) tall and fair like Pushtoons and Baloch or dark skinned like Indian Hanuds? Who do they intermarry with? Any large scale migration to India, Gulf or West? Relationship with local Muslim communities?Voting preferences? Caste system? Loyalty to Pakistan?

Regards

Regards

Re: # 73 since all u know all guys are ignorant , please note that there are Hindus in Balochistan , they are mostly Munshis of all major Baloch Sardars or they have business like pansari or selling liquor as my family did in Dalbandin.We migrated to Karachi.We have some relatives in Kandahar,Kabul and Dubai also.

Harishbhai,

(Yaar Tigram you're a Baloch and a Hindu at that? Never seen one before on Chowk. )

Precisely my feelings- a Baloch Hindu is a completely new and unknown animal to all of us!!! (LOL)

Regards

Re: # 71 Ram Ram to all - HP u r just a prick , intellectually zero , an agent provocateur of some shit army agency,a man of limited perception , learn to keep ur tramp shut.i think u seem to know quetta jihadis quite well,may be some intimate experience u had with that qaum of the ancient arab looot .

#70 Posted by harish_hyd
"Yaar Tigram you're a Baloch and a Hindu at that?"

He is neither a Baloch nor a Hindu. He appears to be a pathan from the Quetta area, a solid jihadi and Taliban supporter too.

He is one of the fellow travelers Major Amin brought to chowk with him to support his nonsense. Like the interview with that jihadi Rtd. Major General Tajammal.

#62 by Tigram

he got a nice house in westridge in pindi where he is now practising extreme ball polishing with musharraf.

Yaar Tigram you're a Baloch and a Hindu at that? Never seen one before on Chowk. Welcome here. How's the situation in B'stan now? Is the army operation still on?

Mr Jafri,

Thank you for your article. I did not read it.

I have though two questions for you: how many people did you personally kill and what impact has that made on your life?

I would read with much interest an article that detailed the answer.

Regards,

Raj Mor

#50 HP MiaN

Itna ghussa aapki sehat ke liye theek nahiN - and it would probably spoil the taste of the Martini you are sipping!

The Pakistani army - like most armies, is reasonably professional and was probably a lot more so (than now) back in the 1970. It was unfortunately saddled with a leader who fell short. The situation was made far worse because of the ZAB's selfish motives.

The "marriage" of the two Pakistans was never really consummated, it was a shot-gun wedding, a wedding of convenience, and there never was a meeting of hearts. It was bound to end up in divorce sooner or later. And that is exactly what happened in 1971.

#63 Posted by majumdar on December 17, 2007 4:21:47 am

That falls under the "if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle" whatifs.

Re: # 63 he talks like a karachiite with sindh domicile but certainly no sindhi.

Re: # 54--- i think that u have no brains u bangroo, low iq and a very cheap outlook u have HP sauce.

Re: # 63 ham baloch hindu hai bhai , sindhi log itna ghatia or kam zaraf nahin hota hai, yeh ya to memon bohra hai ya adha punjabi adha mohajir

Arjun mian,

(just like if they had fought longer in 48, they would have srinigar)

There is more than a kernel of truth in that. When the jihadis reached Baramulla they took some time off to indulge in some brahmacharya (or as Zee sahib says a game of palang polo) with the nuns in a convent there. And by the time they reached Srinagar the Injuns had just about secured the airport for troop landings.

The few hours of R&R proved fatal to the Paki cause.

Tigram,

(HP i undestand could be a relative of musharraf.)

HP sain is a Sindhi to the best of my knowledge so unlikely to be related to Mush in any way.

Regards

Re: # 60 he got a nice house in westridge in pindi where he is now practising extreme ball polishing with musharraf.

Re: # 57 u r right , this HP is like a barren woman, producing nothing and full of constipated ideas.totally incoherent.

There was no depth, no reserves, no second lines. There was enemy (Indians) in the front and enemy at the back (Muktis).They never realised that it was not the territory but the capital of the country that mattered. It had to be the Warsaw, the Paris, the Moscow, the Berlin and in our case the Dacca which until captured by the enemy the country would not fall. If only they had concentrated all the troops in Dacca, made a fortress out of it and fought there for months, which they could do. The East Pakistan story would have been different. We still wouldn’t have been able to avert the creation of Bangla Desh but it would have come into being by the intervention of the world powers and probably the UNO itself.Pakistan would not have had to suffer the ignominy of a defeat.

If this is the level of delusion Paki faujis suffer from, is it any wonder they haven't been able to win a single war despite sucking Pakis dry? One can always look back and think they could have done this or that better, and Jafri mian was very much in service in those days, so one is tempted to ask what is it that he did to prevent B'desh?

arjun bhai , Ram Ram , aap nai sahi bola , i understand that pava posted the interview to prove that even tajaamool admitted that paki army committed atrocities in bangal.

HP i undestand could be a relative of musharraf.

Wow...the mail course in the paki army mess is delusion pulao with fried denial for sides..


Had General Niazi and his team of Generals and Brigadiers decided to stand and fight, the Indian Army would never have succeeded in reaching even the fringes of Dacca.


yup...had they fought, they would have won.

just like if they had fought longer in 48, they would have srinigar

just like if nawaz hadn't chickened out, kashmir would have banega'ed pureland by now..

Re: # 54 u visa seeker ,,, tum bohat barra chacha hai , kadduu type psuedo aadmi hai tum .....very very biased and constipated thoughts u have...and on top of that a shallow intellect

For the attention of Pavocavalry aka Major Agha amin

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your articles. They have been too numerous to read in a few hours, but I am sure they do contain great depth and detail and may have a Kernel of truth, hidden within them, somewhere.

But, Sir, you are inflicting upon us Visual Torture. I say this as the articles are not formatted, too long, etc etc.

In this day and age, setting up a Blog is as easy and performing your daily chores (indeed you might not get a toilet handy in many parts of the world, but setting up a blog is easier than that. Indeed Chowk also has that facility within its ilog pages (since you have an account here you can use this facility).

Could I, humbly request you, nay beseech you, to

(a) put up these articles in the ilog or blog pages
(b) use you interact spaces here n the articles to say what you want to you succintly and then refer to these pages (BLOGS, ILOGS, BOGS or other materail) in your interacts.

I am sure this is not beyond your ken.

Thanking you

Yours Sincerely

Dash_Dot

Re: # 47
Let them live in Myth. But a geographically separated Pakistan would have much more dependence on India. I don't believe size does matter to Pakistan. The internal contradiction (rice eating east with bread eating west) would have kept it busy. Hostility between two countries would have been less.

Major Amin,
At this time you are basically spamming! I know your Jihadi types. A writer of articles that call Yahya a sincere man imo, does not deserve a serious look.

babuji, you are anti army now because now the army is fighting your criminal jihadi brothers in Swat and Waziristan. How half hearted that might be.

I know many Jihadi supporters, whose dreams of creating an Islam ka Qila in Pakistan have been shattered, are now talking about being anti Musharaf. In the past, these same guys were calling Zia mard e momin. We know these munafiqoon very well.

To these Guys Najib is now patriotic Afghan. Some 15 -20 years ago these same guys were asking for his head because he was working with the Russians.

You are not going to discuss this with me because you have nothing to discuss.

Attached is an interview that I conducted with a Pakistani officer who was praised for his bravery by his direct opponent Maj Gen Lachman Singh.If anyone studies this he would note that General Tajammul frankly admits that atrocities were committed by the Paki Army.

I dont want to enter into any debate with Respected Mr HP.Nor have I ever defended the Paki army.

Maj Gen (Retd) Tajammal Hussain Malik


Please tell us something about your early life, parents?
I was born on 13th June 1924, in village Thanil Kamal, Tehsil Chakwal, then District Jhelum (now District Chakwal). I spent my childhood in rural atmosphere, which at that time was quite primitive. There was no electricity, no roads, no telephones and as far as I remember no one owned even a bicycle. Radio came much later. Men, women and children wore the same dress as their ancestors put on centuries ago. There was not much difference between the rich and the poor. There were no social barriers and the living style of all the inhabitants was almost alike.
A village was a self-sustained compact unit. They produced their own wheat, meat, vegetable, rice, ghee, eggs and almost everything one needs for ones simple living. The village shopkeepers were Hindus or Sikhs. Almost all purchases from the shops were on barter system. The prices of agricultural and dairy products were very low: -
Wheat was sold at 1 1/4 rupees a maund. (40 Kilo)
Meat 1/4 rupee a seer ( Kilo)
Milk - 10 seers for one rupee.
Pure desi ghee - 1 1/4 seer for one rupee.
Chicken weighing one seer for about four annas (1/4 rupee).
These rates compared favourably with the rates laid down in “Aaeen-i- Akbari” during the Mughal Emperor Jalal ud Din Akbar’s rule, more than four hundred years ago.
Both my father and mother were highly religious. I inherited my religious convictions from my parents.
Please tell us about your school / college days and any decisive influences on your personality formation / development of convictions.
A common village boy living in rural atmosphere, as mentioned above, could not conceive any high ambitions. I had many relatives in the Army but the highest rank held by any one of them was that of a Subedar, (which was then called Viceroy Commission). In fact, as far as I remember, there was not even a single King’s Commission Officer in the whole of Tehsil Chakwal at that time. ( First IMA course passed out in 1934/35).
From village school, I moved to Government High School Chakwal. Lieut General Abdul Majeed Malik and Maj General Nazar Hussain Shah were a class ahead of me. Brig Amir Gulistan Janjua, whose last appointment was Governor of NWFP, was my class fellow. I think if statistics are taken, that rural area High School produced more Brigadiers and Generals than Aitchison College and Burn Hall combined.
What were your perceptions as young man in pre-1947 India about the prevalent political conditions — Muslim League, Congress etc?
The British Indian army was a mercenary Army. Although occasionally we used to read about the political developments then taking place, yet at that time it never occurred to us that the Indian Army would be divided so soon and a new state of Pakistan would come into being as a homeland for the Muslims. It looked a fantasy. I vividly remember when I was a cadet, I had read an article in one of the magazines, perhaps the Military Bigest, wherein, the then Commander-in-Chief Indian Army, Field Marshal Sir Claude Auckinleck, while addressing army personal at some station had said, “In ten years time, you would have all Indian Battalion Commanders, in fifteen years time you would have all Indian Division Commanders, and in twenty years time you would have an Indian Commander-in- Chief.” From this statement it would become evident that the division of Army was never visualised even at the highest level of military hierarchy, nor did the British officers ever thought of vacating their biggest colony so soon. At the most one could say that India might get dominion status in due course of time, but complete independence was still being regarded as a dream
Any memorable incidents, which left an indelible impression on your personality?
I cannot think of any particular instance, which left an indelible impression on my mind. However, by the time I was a Platoon Commander at PMA in 1954/55, my experiences, observations in life, extensive study of books of history, philosophy and religion particularly Iqbal’s book “Reconstruction of religious thought in Islam” and his Urdu poetry had convinced me of existence of God and all that is laid down in Quran. From then onwards I became a dedicated practicing Muslim and started praying regularly which continues till today. Islam is the guiding force for all my actions and reactions. Whether in peace or in war, I drew my aspirations from Islam. I pray to Almighty Allah that may He continue to guide me for the rest of my life.
Motivation for joining the Army?
I joined the Army to earn my living. When I grew up, Second World War was continuing and Army was the best profession at that time. There was no other consideration.
Please tell us something about your life as a cadet?
In 1945, I was selected for pre-cadet College Belgram (Southern India) and after the termination of Second World War in Sept 1945, all the cadets were put through another Selection Board. In April 1946 I joined Officers Training School at Bangalore (Southern India) and on 16th Feb 1947 I was commissioned in the Rajput Regiment of the British Indian Army. (Late) General Akhtar Abdur Rehman (DG ISI) and Lieut General Jahanzeb Arbab were my course mates, though I passed out senior to both of them in the Order of Merit.
Any seniors, contemporaries who impressed you or were a decisive formative influence during cadetship?
None.
Experiences as a young Commissioned Officer from the date of Commission till partition?
The training at Officers Training School was aimed at moulding the very outlook on life of the cadets and not just imparting professional military training. After Commissioning, the Indian Officers were expected to behave like their masters in all aspects of their day-to-day life. The result was that in order to become a good officer, one was expected to drink, dance and even speak the Urdu language with English accent. The sooner one adjusted oneself to complete European way of life, the better one’s chances were to be regarded as a good officer. Good annual confidential reports (ACRs) and even course reports were generally based on the outer personality of the individual concerned and seldom any superior reporting officer tried to find out the real worth of the man. That is why when partition took place, the outlook of most of our senior officers was more British than the British themselves. Anyone who talked about religion was considered to be a backward type and sometimes even ridiculed in public. There were no doubt some exceptions like General Sher Ali, who took pride in calling himself Muslim and openly preached Islam, but even their way of life was generally very aristocratic and Europeanised. They could more appropriately be called, “Muslim Elites”. The best regiments of the British Indian Army were those which had played the most treacherous part against their own countrymen particularly during the war of Independence in 1857 (which was called ‘Mutiny’ by the British and their henchmen) or those which had committed the most savage acts against unarmed Indian masses who had risen in revolt against their foreign rulers from time to time. Items such as Sultan Tipu’s sword, captured copy of Quran from Ali Masjid during fighting against the Afghans, Regimental flags and various types of weapons belonging to the defeated armies of the Muslim rulers were displayed with pride as trophies in the Unit messes, which perhaps continues till today. A Junior Officer on joining the unit was expected to know all about the history of his unit, which in fact, was the history of treachery and savagery against his own countrymen or that of the fighting against the Ottoman or Afghan Muslim rulers. It never occurred to the young mind, at that time, what a poisonous effect it was likely to have on the development of his real personality.
Please tell us about your service profile from partition till 1958?
At the time partition took place, I was serving as a second lieutenant at the Rajput Training Centre at Fatehgarh in the United Province (UP) of India. In October 1947, a contingent of Muslim soldiers, comprised of four officers and about five hundred other ranks were repatriated to Pakistan. At first we all reported at the Frontier Force Training Centre at Abbottabad. In December 1947, I and another officer were posted to 3/8 Punjab Regiment (now 3rd Baluch Regiment) at Peshawar which was earmarked to proceed to East Pakistan. In the first week of Jan 1948, we landed at Chittagong by the sea route. I stayed in East Pakistan up till June 1950. It was a wonderful experience. The East Pakistanis treated us with love and affection. I had developed great liking for those people. I wish those feeling had continued but it was our own fault. We treated them as Negroes were treated in the United States of America. We considered East Pakistan as our colony. We had to pay dearly for our follies twenty-five years later.
In June 1950, I was posted as GSO-3 in Military Intelligence Directorate, General Headquarters Rawalpindi. About a year later, the Indians threatened to go to war unless we vacated Kashmir. Liaquat Ali Khan, the then Prime Minister, accepted the Indian Challenge to go to war and showed his famous “Mukka” (fist) declaring “we will break your nose if you dare to cross our borders”. Consequently both the Armies were deployed on the border and occupied their defensive positions. It was a great feeling. The entire nation was emotionally charged and every soldier took pride in being in uniform. We were prepared to revive the traditions of Muslim Armies of early period of Islam. Charged with such feeling I volunteered to go to the front line. I was posted as GSO-3 in 10 Division where I spent about 6 months or so. In early 1952 I was posted back to my unit 3/8 Punjab Regiment, now 3rd Baluch which was still deployed in their battle positions at Gujranwala. I was appointed Adjutant of the Battalion. A few months later, both the countries agreed to withdraw their armies to their peace locations and my Battalion moved to Abbottabad. In October 1954 I was posted as Platoon Commander at PMA. Towards the end of 1955, I passed my Staff College examination and in 1956 I attended the Staff Course at Staff College, Quetta. After the termination of Staff Course I was posted as GSO-2 to the Commandant, where I stayed upto the end of 1958.
You served in former East Pakistan as a young officer in early 1950s and saw Ayub as a GOC. How would you describe Ayub at that time as a professional, a person and a senior?
General Ayub of 1948 was quite different to what he became after proclaiming Martial Law in 1958. In those days, his living style was very simple. Most of the time he used to be attired in Khaki bush-shirt and trousers at all functions, formal or informal. He had only one grey suit, which he wore in summers and winters. He used to get his uniform stitched from our unit tailor. I never saw him wearing blue patrols or any other expensive suit other than what I have said before. I had developed great liking for him. In those days I had considered him an ideal soldier. I changed my opinion about him completely when he became the President of Pakistan or even a few years earlier when he started indulging in politics and accumulation of wealth and property. He had known me personally and soon after he became Commander-in-Chief in 1951 he had accepted my invitation to attend a private tea party. At another occasion in 1952, when I was a company commander at Chakdara, he accepted my invitation for a lunch when he was on his way to Dir with an entourage of about 8-10 other officers. I still have his autographed photograph, which was sent to me framed in a silver frame through his Military Secretary, when I was a Military Attache in Turkey. I passed on that framed photograph to my elder son Naveed Tajammal who still likes him whereas I had changed my opinion about him after he became the President of Pakistan.
What are your impressions about the British Officers who served in the Pakistan Army after partition?
I carried good impression about them. Major General Hill, who was our Adjutant General and Brigadier Rhodom, who was Director of Infantry used to go to their offices on bicycle and so did some other British officers, who were holding key appointments in General Headquarters. The then Commander in Chief, General Gracy used to go to his office in a small Hillman car and from C-in-C House to General Headquarters if he saw any soldier in uniform going on foot on his way to GHQ he used to stop his car and tell him to “Hop in” and carry him up to the gates of GHQ. Most of British Officers could be trusted for their word and standard of integrity. No doubt they had social values of their own but that was part of their own culture. On the whole they conducted themselves as good ambassadors of British Nation.
Please tell us more about your tenure as an instructor at PMA and the standard of training at PMA as you saw it in the 1950s.
When I joined PMA, Brigadier Pigot was the Commandant of the Academy. He had been the Commanding Officer of General Ayub, when the latter was a junior officer in one of the Punjab Regiments, perhaps old 1st/14 Punjab. His living style was very austere and was a highly dedicated soldier. He expected the same standard from the Platoon Commanders and the cadets. Since he had been Ayub Khan’s Commanding Officer, no PSO (Principal Staff Officer) or any other Pakistani senior officer, could dare interfere in his training programmes nor he was prepared to accept any dictation from General Headquarters. He had his own style of training the cadets and he continued to do so up to the time he left the Command sometime in the middle of 1955 and returned to England. Even on the day he was leaving he inspected the unit lines and the classes and sent a note to the Adjutant to send instructions to the officers concerned to put the things right wherever he found anything wrong.
Almost every platoon commander judged his cadets by his own standard of integrity, honesty and moral values. Some of the very good cadets were thrown out because they could not be judged properly by their platoon commanders. Whereas some of the low grade cadets were brought to high position by their platoon commanders on the basis of sycophancy and deceitfulness thus laying the framework for the future. I generally found most of the West Pakistani Platoon Commanders rather biased towards the East Pakistani Cadets. I personally had very sympathetic feelings for them, perhaps because of my early stay in East Pakistan. After their repatriation to Bangladesh out of the six East Pakistani Cadets in my Platoon, four became General Officers.
How was regimental life like in the period 1947-1965.
When Pakistan came into being, we had no industry which could provide material for soldiers’ uniform or other military equipment. Even socks, boots and cloth for uniform used to be imported from England. Kikar thorn was provided in packs from the stationary depot in place of common pin. Paper, pencils and every item of stationary had to be imported from abroad. Indo-Pak war of 1948 in Kashmir was fought under these conditions. The present day Azad Kashmir was due to the sacrifices of those unknown heroes who had to carry on the fight under most difficult conditions. When the ceasefire was ordered in 1948 they were thoroughly disappointed. For, they were convinced that had they been allowed to continue to fight they would have captured Srinagar within a few months. The old theory that it is the man behind the gun and not the gun that matters literally proved true in the Indo-Pak war of 1948 fought on the soil of Kashmir.
After a few years, the conditions had slightly improved, in that, indigenous industry was installed to meet our partial requirement of arms and equipment. Towards the end of nineteen fifties, under mutual agreements and pacts, American Aid started pouring in, which provided free arms, heavy weapons and equipments to all the three services; Army, Navy and Air Force. By 1965, Pakistan Armed Forces had become a hard hitting force capable of destroying any army twice its size at any place and at any time.
Regimental life for the first ten years or so was still preferred over staff appointments. In all other aspects it remained more or less the same as it is today. I personally found it fascinating. We all lived like family members and the relationships developed during that period continue till today. Most of officers were dedicated soldiers. They served in the Army more for honour than for monetary benefits. With the passage of time, gradually standard of integrity, honesty and moral values degenerated.
Please tell us something about the standard of training in the Army in the period 1947-58 and 1958-65 i.e. how would you compare both the peri