Islam and Hijab-Murder in Canada

Tahmed sahib,

The reason that there are no hamidms or nasahs among Hanuds is simple, there is no need to. Since anyways most Hanuds dont take Hanudism seriously there is no need to debunk it either.

(there is no arjun, now chowkkid as he shamelessly clings to chowk)

Why should arjun mian not be allowed to post on chowk? There are people on chowk who have openly been calling for genocide (of inconvenient ethnic groups) and murder of other interactors. Arjun mian is merely reporting what is going on. If the first group is allowed to go unpunished why single out Arjun mian (or masadi sahib)?

Regards

#127 Posted by tahmed32 on December 23, 2007 7:54:56 am

prophetboy: nobody outside your self-deluded world sees it that way...the BJP is considered much like the GOP..I can understand your need to clutch at straws seeing as how it's clear to everyone but self-deluded pakis that india and pureland aren't considered by the world to be in the same league...

of course, you, being the cleopatra you are, can rule the kingdom of denial..

for "liberal/moderate" muslims, flying planes into buildings, blowing up embassies, blowing up subways and tourist resorts is just something you'd like us to forget..

Re: dost_mittar #119,
"I am asking liberal Muslims to do the same that liberal Hindus do...."

Please don't try to convert us.

dostmittar: i dont think you can compare the BJP-ites of India (the second largest party in India with a following of hundreds of millions) to even the lunatic fringe of the extreme right wing of the christian fundamentalists (a tiny fraction of the US population) - the latter dont elect known known communal killers as state governors (like Modi) and brave destroyers of other people's places of worship like Advani as national leaders.

I have full respect for the other half of India - of whom leaders like Nehru and Gandhi, although vilified by the BJPites, are the true builders of Indian democracy.

monkeykid1: truth hurt, did it? the truth being that you clinging shamelessly to chowk, registering as a nick every time chowk staff got rid of your arjun series of nicks.

#123 Posted by dost_mittar on December 23, 2007 4:36:38 am

You're wasting your time..the real liberal and moderate pakis, both of them, aren't in denial...they acknowledge the reality..

prophetboy, otoh...I could post a million articles about how the paki government arms, funds, trains and uses islamic terrorists for it's own policy goals and prophetboy would accuse me of being a "hater"..yup..the facts hate the pakis..unless you are willing to give pakiland and pakis a pass on their continuing support to islamic terrorism, you're a hater..

Prophetboy:

like I've said a million times before..It it weren't for the islamic terrorism coming out of pureland, pureland would be west bangladesh to most indians and cabdriveristan to most americans..

your whole identity in the world is defined by the islamic terrorism your army and indeed, your people, supported(and still continue to support..

Just as India is associated with IT, Pureland is associated with IT(Islamic terrorism)..

you, otoh, are cleopatra..queen of denial..

tahmed32:

Almost every Hindu on chowk is like hamidm. They do not give two hoots about Ram, Krishan or the Vedas-Shedas. Two chief Ministers of India have declared that Ram did not exist; how many Hindu chowkies have been provoked? I just made a statement that Muslim liberals should condemn objectionable practices regardless of whether or not they are consistent with their religion, just as liberal hindus condemn casteism, sati and dowry burning without worrying whether or not they are allowed by their religion; that simple, very innocuous statement was twisted by you to mean that I am asking Muslims to join Hindus in condemning their religion. (I had never said that Hindus condemn their religion, only that the liberals among them condemn some abominable practices associated with the Hindu society)

As far Hindu chowkies being obsessed with Islam, you are only half right, the whole bloody world is obsessed with Islam, and not because it is expanding most rapidly in the world. You pick on Hindus only because this is chowk, if you were listening to any of the radio programs in the US and Canada, you will find that most of the arjunms there are Christians and jews.

majumdar #117 i think sir that virtually every other post by indians is about religion (trying to convince that islam is best described by the actions of criminals). there is no arjun (now chowkkid as he shamelessly clings to chowk the way musharraf shamelessly clings to power) among pakistanis. I rest my case. :-)

#119 dost mittar: show me one hamidm among indians, or one nasah among hindus. i rest my case. :-)

#119 Posted by dost_mittar on December 22, 2007 2:02:10 am


condemn objectional Muslim practices


prophetboy will do one of two things

1. say the said practices aren't islamic(despite being practised by muslims) and label you an anti-islamic bigot

2. label you an anti-islamic bigot

don't you realize that a liberal muslim is different fro ma liberal hindu or liberal christian...a liberal muslim is a terrorist who's too drunk to know where he kept his suicide bomb detonator..

tamed32:

Plese read my statement once again. I am asking liberal Muslims to do the same that liberal Hindus do, namely, condemn objectional Muslim practices (which you do, btw) without qualification that they are against Islam.

Re: # 117 tum log majority jo ho ,

Tahmed sahib,

Most Injuns on chowk (mercifully) don't give too hoots for any religion, including their own.

Regards

arjun: Sorry to disappoint you, but that statement was merely to goad Dost Mittar into action.

harish_hyd #113: That is what we are all here on chowk for, I guess. Rhetoric flourishes!! :-)

#112 Posted by tahmed32 on December 21, 2007 3:31:38 am


As it stands, even the most enlightened indian on chowk - dost mittar - is no better than a the most unenlightened muslim anywhere


HAHA..the kool-aid drinkers loses the "prophet tahmed approved indian" stamp of approval...

DM: I hope your parent aren't around..this would have been a traumatic event for them...

#110 by tahmed32

I was only being rhetorical, but Baaz mian's (il)logic had to be countered in the same manner :))

vrv/dm: if a muslim does not join hindus in condemning islam, then he is "bound with an iron chain" to it.

wah! wah! This is the stuff they teach you in India.

You people would be more convincing if you set an example of condemning the religion one ascribes to - hinduism or sikhism. You would be even more convincing if you actually treated religion more objectively. As it stands, even the most enlightened indian on chowk - dost mittar - is no better than a the most unenlightened muslim anywhere - i.e. the village maulvi. Who berates other religions the same way you do.

our liberal Muslims are too concerned about protecting pristine (aka fundamental) Islam to condemn anything without qualifying that it is not in keeping with the teachings of the quran and the prophet. In doing this, they turn the quran and the prophet from inspirational sources into an iron chain that they have bound themselves with.

DOST MITRjee,

Wah wah!

#109 those are not "Allah's followers" being swatted by civilized society around the world. those are idolators who think they are muslims but actually simply worship laddus of a different kind.

#104 by baazthefalcon

And your mythical gods cannot even shoo away flies sitting on the "laddus"....So beta laddu, you better take care of your gods/goddesses "laddus"....

Don't really mean to hurt anyone, but just can't resist this comment. Allah's followers are being swatted like flies on a Laddu across the world - even the godless commies in China are perched comfortably on top of the Uighur Muslims' heads, yet Allah doesn't so much as twitch. What gives?

Re: # 107

Hey, you really need to smell the coffee..the Quranic allah is the most mythical of all the concepts it acts like an alter ego of the maniac who conceived him.....our symbols are indeed allegoric and we worship the actual deities referred by those symbols and not the symbols perse as Islam propagandizes. To consider idols = gods shows the level of Islamic intelligence. And tell me, which scholar would consider Allah and the description of him as merely allegoric? The biggest inconsistent and mythical character is the Allah and muslims need to come out of this myth!!

Laddu Mian,

The diff is that we don't actually 'worship' the allegorical references 'in their own right' like monkeys and rats and elephant nosed eunuchs and six-armed goddesses with tongues sticking out .... as you do ... nor any winged horses or djinns or guards of Jannah. We merely use the latter as graphical illustrations of a reference point in a central thesis, while you worship all the characters of Alice in Wonderland, Aesop's fables, Gulliver's Travels etc all at the same time or one by one or different for different times or one over the other and so forth. Whatever catches your fancy or whatever scares you more or entices you more.

How stupid!

Eklavya:

Are you my old friend or a newcomer with the same nick?

Re. sati, I think that our liberal Muslim friends can take a lesson from Hindus in at least this respect, that we condemned sati and other noxious practices while disregarding whether or not it is permitted by our religion. On the other hand, our liberal Muslims are too concerned about protecting pristine (aka fundamental) Islam to condemn anything without qualifying that it is not in keeping with the teachings of the quran and the prophet. In doing this, they turn the quran and the prophet from inspirational sources into an iron chain that they have bound themselves with.

Re: # 104

LOL Beta Arbaaz,

Can your Allah shoo away flies without asking help from his followers? ......... may be he give some 'wisdom' or perhaps better 'common-sense' to his followers??......

Laddu Mian
And your mythical gods cannot even shoo away flies sitting on the "laddus"....So beta laddu, you better take care of your gods/goddesses "laddus"....

...and you did not understand what I mean by 'wisdom' in aesop's fables..........which is none in Quranic myths....

Re: # 101

Your understanding is typical of momeens......
you did not understand that I called Quranic 'truths' as the greatest of all the myths...........

Laddu Mian,

You just said it. Hinduism or whatever you call it is no more than Aesop's fables or Gulliver's' Travels. Take your pick.

That's what I said, didn't I?

Re: # 98

Typical of momeen propaganda -

Other religion's deities are 'myths' ..

but Islamic deities are 'truths'........

Re: # 98

There is great wisdom in aesop's fables.......there is great wisdom in some of the puranic allegories and fables......call them 'myths'...........but so is that other worldly blood thirsty deity called Allah.....his angels with 'wings' ..... those transparent skinned robotic houries............that winged Buraq...... those ghastly looking djinns.....and that Ridwan who guards the Jannah....

the greatest myths are those places called Jannah and Jahannum.......

and ofcourse that tele-kinesis from Allah miyan to that profit is the biggest 'myth' of all!!!

#97 Posted by laddu,

Laddu Mian, there's no such thing as a 'Hindu'.

It is all mythological nonsense of 'take your pick' out of monkeys and rats and elephant nosed eunuchs and six-armed goddesses with tongues sticking out.

Re: # 95

"laddu, it IS a great system. Please open your eyes..."

Yes Yes.....even Nazism IS a great system. Stalinism was even greatest. Perhaps the greatest system was Spinoza's.

If your eyes are 'open' then perhaps you need to recite the kalima..otherwise if you are a hindu then can you negate the kalima on this board??

Eklavya,

Neembu ji, is a full-time and tireless jihadi (of whatever she considers jihad is.:)) ... Yet you judge them all totally stupid! ... You cannot even get shoresahib to go along with you on your 'let's make fun of all religion' ... it IS a great system.

LoL ... Water carriers and flag-bearers ... Quartermasters ... :)

But you missed CliftonJi. Guess she stands right up somewhere near the Vanguard protecting the flanks!

But the 'super intelligent ones' wouldn't have a clue ... would they?

laddu bhai, hope that is just admiration, not dhimmified admiration.

laddu, it IS a great system. Please open your eyes. It is different from what you and I have. Or prefer for ourselves. And, since we are so different, most of the times it does not look pretty to us. But that is strictly our problem.

Re: # 77

Sati was actually a reference to Sati , Shiva-s consort, who immolated herself out of protest against her father's . It is a puranic allegoric story about other heavenly deities.
Incidently, this was almost like a suicidal protest.
This suicidal protest was followed when the moghuls came and follwed their prophet in raping and making sex slaves the hindu idolator women folk. To save themselves from that ignominy upon defeat of their men folk women preferred to follow the Sati than allow their bodies to be sexually abused and their spirits enslaved by the momeen followers.
The act was specifically given religious connotation because it was a result of Jehadic warfare against hindus and it infuriated those momeens who fought in anticipation of beautiful hindu female booties!!!

On 11th of December, in Mississauga Canada, Aqsa, a 16 year old Canadian girl was choked to death by her Pakistani father, Muhammad Parvez, for not wearing hijab. “She wanted to live her life the way she wanted to, not the way her parents wanted her to,� her classmates told the reporters. “She just wanted to be herself, honestly she just wanted to show her beauty, and not be pushed around by her parents telling her what she has to be like, what she has to do. Nobody would want to do that.�

Yes, nobody would want to do that, but sadly many girls born in Islamic families are forced to do that.

One day after the death of Aqsa, I received an email from an 18 year old girl from UK. She said that she has been reading about Islam and had decided not to be a Muslim. However, her Muslim parents force her to wear hijab and her sister told her that if their mother learns about her views, “she would either kill you or she’ll kill herself�.

I sent her the story of Aqsa and what her father did to her. She wrote back and said, “What an animal! Anyways, I don’t think my mom cares about my beliefs, as long as I don’t have a boy friend, [and don’t] take off my hijaab.�

The truth is that Aqsa’s father was not an animal either. He was just a devout Muslim, who had worked hard and had built a nice home for his family in an upscale neighborhood. He was an ideal immigrant, a real “success story.� However, he had no choice but to kill his daughter. He did what he had to do. As one friend wrote, “In a way there are two victims in this case. This man like any other father must have loved, nurtured and cared for his daughter for years. It is so unfortunate that he finds himself turned into a monster that ate his own progeny.� Then this friend asked “What kind of ideology was it that turned a simple hard working family man into a revolting image of himself?�

What the westerners do not understand is that Muslims have different values, which are diametrically in contrast with western values. Western societies are guilt based. In guilt based societies individuals base their conduct on “right� and “wrong�. They try to do the right thing and if they do something wrong, they feel guilty. Muslim societies are shame based. In shame based societies individuals base their conduct on the opinion of others about them. What really counts is to look good. In shame cultures, if you do something wrong, as long as no one sees it and knows about it, you are okay. You can still keep your head high and act as an honorable member of the society. It is the image that you project of yourself that matters. You must do everything to protect that image. It is all about keeping the appearances.

In guilt societies, how you dress or don’t dress is your business. You can practice nudity and even promiscuity and have no shame. As long as you don’t violate someone else’s rights you can do whatever you like. Such a thing is inconceivable for Muslims who come from shame societies where everybody's life is the business of everybody else. This makes the western and Islamic cultures essentially incompatible. If this problem is not resolved soon, it will result is a major clash and dire consequences.

In a subsequent email my young British friend wrote, “My mom has noticed a change in me, ..and she said today, ‘I hope you haven’t done anything because so an so aunt will laugh.' Jesus! Who cares about so and so aunt who doesn’t even care about us?�

This is the crux of the problem. In Islamic societies people live in function of the opinion of others about them. That is the only thing that really matters to them. Muhammad Parvez was devastated by the fact that her 16 year old daughter wanted to dress like her classmates and show off her beauty. How could he look into the eyes of his Muslim friends with such a daughter? Muslims call western women “sluts� for not covering themselves. For Mr. Parvez his daughter’s western clothing was a major source of shame and dishonor. He had no choice but to kill her. There is hardly anything for which we humans are willing to die for, or kill, like our honor. This is far truer in shame based societies, where guilt plays virtually no role and everything revolves around shame and honor.

Millions of girls living in Muslim families in the west are abused, beaten and face death by their own loved ones because of honor. Don’t assume that these girls are the only victims. Their families are also victims. They are left with no choice, but to kill the apple of their own eyes. Everyone in these tragedies is a victim. It’s the government that is guilty!

The government is guilty for letting down its Muslim citizens and particularly its most vulnerable members, the Muslim girls. There was no need for Aqsa to die. If hijab was baned she would be alive today. If hijab is banned, no Muslim can look down at other Muslims for not observing it and no one will have to feel shame. Muslims hardy wear hijab or observe any Islamic custom when they live in places where there are few Muslims. They start behaving Islamicly when they congregate together and build their shame based communities.

The 20th century Pahlavi ruler, Reza Shah, knew how to handle this problem. He banned the chador (Iranian style of veil) in 1936. He ordered the police to arrest woman wearing chador and forcibly remove it. Although this policy outraged the mullahs, the average Iranians were relieved. The ban allowed them to be free without having to deal with the burden of shame. The historian Mir-Hosseini writes, “this move was welcomed by Westernized and upperclass men and women, who saw it in liberal terms as a first step in granting women their rights." She continues, 'between 1941 and 1979 wearing hejab [hijab] was no longer an offence, but it was a real hindrance to climbing the social ladder, a badge of backwardness and a marker of class. A headscarf, let alone the chador, prejudiced the chances of advancement in work and society not only of working women but also of men, who were increasingly expected to appear with their wives at social functions. Fashionable hotels and restaurants refused to admit women with chador, schools and universities actively discouraged the chador, although the headscarf was tolerated. It was common to see girls from traditional families, who had to leave home with the chador, arriving at school without it and then putting it on again on the way home'." (cited in El-Guindi 1999 pp. 174-175)

Despite his flaws, Reza Shah is hailed as the father of modern Persia by many Iranians because he banned the hijab. He was a Muslim and was keenly aware of the Muslim mind. He knew that only with the fist of the law Muslims can be rescued from their backward customs. He broke down the power and prestige of the clergy, discarded the Islamic law, closed down Islamic madrassahs, forbade religious processions, and replaced the Islamic calendar with the old Persian-Zoroastrian solar calendar. He prohibited the Islamic call to prayer and discouraged the pilgrimage to Mecca. He even forced the mullahs to shave, take off their robe and engage in honorable professions. The majority of Iranians welcomed his reforms. He was seen as a liberator. He set Iran free from the oppression of the culture of shame. It is this shame that inhibits Muslims to take the first step and stand out of the crowd. It is because of this shame that no reform can ever happen in Islamic societies unless it is imposed on them by force.

Western governments have a duty towards their Muslim citizens and particularly their women that traditionally have been the most disadvantaged members of Islamic societies. If hijab was banned in Canada Aqsa would be alive today and a hard working good father would not have had to choose between his daughter and his honor. The government failed both Aqsa and her father.

There are millions of Muslim families in western countries who share Parvezs' predicament. The girls in these families are under greater pressure and bigger danger than those living in Islamic countries. In Islamic countries everyone wears the same clothing. It is much easier for Muslim girls to conform and comply there than in the West where they are forced to be different. The government owes these girls protection.

Aqsa is dead. Her beauty will be devoured by a cold grave. That bud was nipped before blossoming. Will we let her death go in vain or will we ban hijab and set millions of Muslims free in her memory?

We must ban hijab, save innocent lives, end this abuse, and absolve the poor Muslim parents from having to make such difficult choices. Muslim parents are not animals. They are torn apart between the love of their children and their honor. Only the government can take that burden away. The only people who would not welcome this ban will be the mullahs who will see their power reduced. The average Muslims will be grateful and relieved, even though to keep the image of faithful believers, may publicly oppose the decision. .

Now that Muslims are living in the West in such a large numbers, politicians must make an extra effort to understand the Muslim mind. Only the hand of law can put an end to this culture of shame and help Muslims to integrate. If we let this division stand, a clash between Islam and the West will become inevitable. This means civil war.

Re: # 84

"Even so, claims of exclusivity (finality and perfection) on behalf of Prophet Muhammad and his message do set them apart from others.

LOL, be that as it may, yes, it is a common ailment of Hindu liberals - They are totally convinced Muslims cannot remain Muslims unless they are also born brain-dead."

Bhai jaan,

Khul ke baat karo.......this veiled dhimmified admiration of Islam and stereotyping 'Hindu liberal' looks spot on from Pak Studies......

Some ignorant fools act on their ignorance to sanction violation of their mores, such "justice" works in a community type setting, a gemeinschaft or a community defined by mechanical solidarity. Remnants of this survive in an urban, gesellschaft type society as well and so we see in the US and in many European countries stories of wives killing their husbands over preceived infidelity, boyfrieds killing girlfriends, mothers to be abort their offspring at whatever level of development to protect their "reputation and honor", or position in the marketplace (which has replaced honor compared to a rural community), and so on. Yet these acts of these ignorant fools do not get translated in moral generalizations about either their society, their religion or their race, unlike the exceptions about Muslims that get translated as such because of propaganda purposes to carry on a global agenda that is more barbraic than all the so-called "honor killings" all over the world put together....because it affects tens of millions, even billions more....

anil ji, agreed.

aslam writes "Tragic though it is, the death of aqsa should’t go in vain, Canadian social services and civil socirty groups should devise some plan of action so that similar tragedy should not happen again."

They would better spend their resources to check abuse against women and children as well as rape in Canadian society, rather than worry over a quite unusual and uncommon incident, that by the way has absolutely nothing to do with Islam but is used for propaganda purposes towards that end. Instead of crying fake(crocodile) tears over that one girl because her death soothes your bigotry against Islam, cry over the hundreds of thousands of young girls killed in Iraq through this barbaric US war as well as the sanctions that preceded it.....

Re: # 80

Eklavya:

On sati as religious sanction. If it is verbal, I know, in Today's India that person will be in Jail. It is a written sanction, that book will be banned in Today's India. Hinduism is a strange creature - loosely a common law of religion - if people believe accept it, if they don't reject it. There is no authority in Hindusim that comes from a person, priest or book. I for one believe that Ramayana is wrongly written. Sita's sacrifices were greater, and instead of eulogizing Ram, who accept for not having luxuries of a palace had everything with him.

Do think about it, chalta. You cannot even get shoresahib to go along with you on your 'let's make fun of all religion' high! At best your mirzai friends would join you but that's only because you don't know enough to say things offenseive to them.

Don't you think you should seriously consider stopping tilting at windmills? What's the point of all this intelligence if you don't?

:)

Someone said I reminded him of Sridhar Shukla. That would make me more a religious racket scientist than a rocket scientist. :)

---------------

I am an unbeliever. But I just don't think believers are less intelligent, or less logical than unbelievers. Believers - all, without any exception - do have a very different type of intelligence, totally differnet type of logic than yours. That much is true.

You socially, regularly, interact with proud believers. An honorable friend of yours, Neembu ji, is a full-time and tireless jihadi (of whatever she considers jihad is.:)) Yet you judge them all totally stupid!

Eki, it is because there are more muslims here that I say Mohammed. the common ailment of religious rocket scientists like yourself is that you think numbers equate validity of concept. having 10 kids doesn't mean that the message of islam is the right message of humanity. that just means that 10 more kids will be ingrained int he stupidity of that religious doctrine. same goes for hindus. Your logic is completely devoid of well.....logic. But PHD's in religiocity leave that concept at the door of faith.

CA, it does seem unfair to focus exclusively on Prophet Muhammad and his message. It is mighty stupid as well to be running behind a god riding a rat.

Even so, claims of exclusivity (finality and perfection) on behalf of Prophet Muhammad and his message do set them apart from others.

LOL, be that as it may, yes, it is a common ailment of Hindu liberals - They are totally convinced Muslims cannot remain Muslims unless they are also born brain-dead.

And all the while, the numbers of Muslims keeps increasing worldwide (not just from different birth-rates).

There are normal people, who listen to god, allah, and hanuman; and then there are super intelligent Hindu liberals. :)

Ek, the amount of squirming in defining simplicity will leave simplicity as the most uncommon virtue.

If gods and prophets have a blog, I can bet you dollar to donuts, you would have termed them newswallahs.

Simple people can see through stupidity. Why do you think stupidity prescribes that the last prophet came 1500 yrs ago? God sends a hundred thousands prophets in the first 10K years of civilized human existence and then all of a sudden stops because any prophet in this day and age of wider humanly knowledge would smack them into the bunghole from where they came.

Mohammed would be no better than the guy in the subway offering aphorisms on life. People are smarter now than before and god and prophets have outlived their usefulness. To ridicule religious sentiment is the duty of humans greatest leaps have been made in human knowledge when god was slapped around intellectually. Simple people understand that. Phds and rocket scientists try too hard to understand simple people.

Chalta, "simple" people understand these things for what they really are, and were supposed to be. Newswallas who preach to us that we should all be 'secularists' and 'respect' everybody are not simple people.

Even gods and prophets would have avoided this tribe. No one ever heard of any god or prophet ever calling a news conference to explain his/her views. No one tries for the impossible.

#78, Eki yaar, are you saying that simple people don't understand religion or the stories that may involve it? Does one have to be a "rocket scientis" or a "phd" in comparative religon to write a news story concerning religion? Think about what you said two days ago that was a direct counter to the point you are making below. Yaar, you vacillate more that Pamela Andersen about what you want.

dost-mittar ji, sanction or basis, if signficantly large numnbers of Hindus considered (and consider) Sati a religious issue then religious it is.

Rest of us, who oppose it, ought to oppose it knowing full well that it could be/is a religious issue (for many).

Alternative, we can simply let it be. Probably even revive the practice in Canada.

We should be much more concerned about the over-the-top reaction of Canadians. With these hysterical reactions, Canadian dream of building a truely multi-everything society will remain a pipedream. What is needed is a more measured appreciation of a complex human drama, a sad and unfortunate one, no doubt.

# 75, agree with you, Loop. The news situation here seems to be similar to what we see everyday in India. Newsmen run with stories involving religion even though they have knowledge neither of the stories nor of religions.

It's quite likely the issue was not just immodest dress, but far more serious.

tahir, anil, harish:

I said that the sati has religious sanction, not that it has a religious basis. I am actually not aware of any relgious text that approves sati, but when you have people building temples to worship a sati and when the priests protested against the British when they try to ban sati, I suggest that it does have a religious sanction.

Read this column directly from the mouth of a well known Pakistani Muslim and a columnist for Daily Times.!

Young Aqsa is no more-

Truth and denial —Farrukh Saleem
Dec 19,2007 Dailytimes, Lahore, Pakistan
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\12\19\story_19-12-2 007_pg3_4

Within a few hours Aqsa was no more. Her life was strangled out of her. Muhammad’s beautiful baby is no more — she died from neck compression. Aqsa is dead; she can wear a scarf no more; can go to the school no more. Aqsa can change into jeans no more; she can breathe no more

Sixteen years ago, God endowed Muhammad Parvez, a cab driver in Canada, with a beautiful baby-girl. Muhammad named her Aqsa Parvez. Eleven years ago, Aqsa started school. For the past few years, Aqsa had been leaving home every morning wearing track pants and a headscarf, headed for Applewood Heights Secondary School. Once inside school premises, Aqsa would routinely remove her scarf and change into jeans.

A year ago, Muhammad took a passenger to Applewood Heights Secondary School. Perchance, he spotted Aqsa without her headscarf. Since that day, a year ago, Aqsa had been showing up at school with bruised arms. At 8 am on December 10, 2007, the police received a telephone call from a man claiming to have killed his daughter. The police rushed Aqsa, suffering from life-threatening neck injuries, to Credit Valley Hospital. Aqsa, in critical condition, had to be transferred to the Hospital for Sick Children and put on life support.

Within a few hours Aqsa was no more. Her life was strangled out of her. Muhammad’s beautiful baby is no more — she died from neck compression. Aqsa is dead; she can wear a scarf no more; can go to the school no more. Aqsa can change into jeans no more; she can breathe no more. Did Muhammad use Aqsa’s scarf to strangle her? Would Muhammad Parvez go to hell or heaven?

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police has charged Muhammad with second-degree murder. (In Canada, murder can be first or second degree. First degree murder is “planned and deliberate; murder while hijacking an aircraft, sexual assault, murder during terrorist activity, murder while being associated with a criminal organization or while committing intimidation.� Second-degree murder is “all murder which is not first degree murder.�)

Honour killing is our export to Canada. Women who do not wear hijab are not virtuous. Hijab is a Muslim woman’s identity. Hijab is religion. Hijab is the sixth pillar. Hijab symbolises sexual modesty. The West is conspiring to crush Islamic identity. Fact or fiction?

Here’s a fact: Aqsa has been murdered. For us, denial is not an option. According to the United Nations Population Fund more than 5,000 women worldwide fall victim to honour killing. Denial is not an option.

According to the UN’s Special Rapporteur “honour killings had been reported in Egypt, the Islamic Republic of Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Pakistan, the Syrian Arab Republic, Turkey and Yemen�. Egypt is 90 percent Muslim, Iran 98 percent, Jordan 92 percent, Lebanon 60 percent, Morocco 99 percent, Pakistan 97 percent, the Syrian Arab Republic 90 percent and Turkey 99 percent. Of the 192 member-states of the United Nations almost all honour killings take place in nine overwhelmingly Muslim countries. Denial is not an option.

More recently, honour killings have taken place in France, Germany, the United Kingdom and Canada. Intriguingly, all these honour killings have taken place in Muslim communities of France, Germany, the United Kingdom and Canada. Denial is not an option.

Here’s another fact: Illiteracy and honour killings are correlated. Jacobabad District has a literacy rate of 23 percent, the lowest in Sindh. Jacobabad has the highest rate of crimes of honour; 91 honour killings in 2002. In illiteracy, next to Jacobabad are Ghotki and Larkana. Both Ghotki and Larkana have high rates of crimes of honour: 67 honour killings in Ghotki and 62 in Larkana. Hyderabad, on the other hand, has a literacy rate of 44 percent and there were 5 honour killings in 2002. Denial is not an option.

On March 1, 2005, PMLQ and MMA legislators in our National Assembly joined hands and defeated a bill that was introduced to strengthen the law against honour killings. In November 2006, the Senate passed the bill with PPP and ANP supporting the bill while the PMLN abstained.

Another fact: Around 2.5 percent of humanity lives in Pakistan. But, nearly 30 percent of all honour killings reported from around the world are reported from Pakistan.

Is denial an option? Who will take the honour out of these killings? Who will expose the horror from under the hijab? Who will protect women from the laws of men?

Dr Farrukh Saleem is an Islamabad-based economist and analyst

I'm sure the real cause behind the murder is not revealed but the media has taken this is a perfect case to deface Islam. If the man were so islamic he would never have killed her but turned her out of the house at most and severed all ties with her. Maybe it was a case of renouncing faith which lead to the murder.
Only Allah knows best and we as Muslims should not give wind to such controversial items and debate about them. We were not there we didnt see anything, speculation and doubt are two evils.

Re: # 66
Dowry burning is bania class culture in India.This is not visible in lower economic group people or rich people. It has nothing to do with indian philosopy.
A person is free to wear any dress. Naga Sanyasis roam around without any dress. If a person is not able to control his emotion after seeing a person of opposite sex, it is his/her problem. There is no point blaming the girl/boy as improperly dressed. If you are part of any instituion, follow that. But in public/private life, let the person decide his/her own dress.

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testing

Gill sahib,
What does hadood legislation have to do with hijab?

khurram:
I am sorry that my sentence got tangled up. Read "there is a need for eliminating the legislation of hijab (hudood legislation)" instead of what was written in the original post. See if it makes sense.
Mohammad Gill

gill sahib # 66

Hard to figure out what you are saying, Sir. First, you would agree that killing all non-Hijabis is definitely not an Islamic injunction. But then you step far beyond just making that point. You go on to suggest that Muslims should condemn Islamic injunctions if they personally disagree with them.

That seems just wrong.

Re #52, freethinker,
"there is a need for eliminating the legislation of hijab by the enforcement of hudood regulation in Pakistan "

what?

#65 Posted by nasah on December 17, 2007 5:31:15 am


“The alternative is Saudi Arabia. Why don’t they pick that?� he added.


good question...why didn't he pick saudi arabia? they're totally into the women's rights thing...if she were raped there, she'd be forgiven of her 200 lashes sentence.

Dost-mittar #57:

Dowry burning is a curse like honor-killing whether it has any thing to do with any religion or not. It's a cultural disease like killing the non-hijabis. All such practices whether sanctioned by any religion or not should be condemned. They should be condemned not for religious reasons but because they are against human nature. Such condemnation will then become universal.

Mohammad Gill

"Aqsa’s murder a beacon of hope, a wake-up call

WASHINGTON: “I hope she becomes a beacon of hope for all the girls who are in a similar situation living like a hostage in their homes,� a Pakistani-Canadian has said, commenting on 16-year-old Aqsa Parvez’s murder by her father because she would not wear the hijab.

Syed Shah, an IT specialist, told the Toronto Sun that Aqsa’s “tragic demise should be an eye opener for those ‘traditional’ fathers who are living in Canada yet are still trapped in the 15th century mind frame. They cannot and should not expect their daughters to live in bustling Mississauga and bear a mindset of a girl living in any rural part in Pakistan. The two just don’t go together.� The irony, he pointed out, is that immigrants come here seeking the freedom of Canada, but some forget that the hard-fought right now extends to their families. “The alternative is Saudi Arabia. Why don’t they pick that?� he added.

Aqsa Parvez was secretly buried on Saturday, “her tragic murder still reverberating through a city that remains shocked and horrified,� according to the Canadian daily. “We see her beautiful face everywhere, on the TV news and the newspapers, her haunting dark brown eyes bright with such promise and excitement at what life had to offer. Life that was suddenly cut short at 16, allegedly by an Old World father who could not tolerate her need to distance herself from his suffocating control, and the dictates of his religion,� the paper wrote."

A few murders like this and there will light at the end of the Islamic family tunnel.

Tragic though it is, the death of aqsa should’t go in vain, Canadian social services and civil socirty groups should devise some plan of action so that similar tragedy should not happen again.

In the 80’s and 90’s in UK, honour killings and girls running away from home because of strict parents, arrange marriages, abusive husbands etc, were quite frequent.
Social workers, teachers and police were alerted of this problem, around a dozen hostels were built in the country to accommodate these girls. Police and social workers “snatch squad� were created who removed these girls from their “problem� parents and placed them in hostels with 24 hour security.

Canada has an advantage over UK in that most migrants there are educated and professional, therefore it is far easier for them to adjust to their new adopted land.

congratulations to all muslims...the land of the keeper of the mosques moves on to the 18th century..!! yipee progress...

Report: Saudi King Pardons Teen Female Rape Victim Sentenced to 200 Lashes

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah has pardoned a female rape victim who had been sentenced to 200 lashes for being alone with a man at the time of the attack who was not related to her, a Saudi newspaper reported Monday.

The case had sparked international outcry. In a rare criticism of its Mideast ally, the White House had expressed its "astonishment" over the woman's sentence. Canada called it barbaric.

Saudi Justice Minister Abdullah bin Muhammed al-Sheik told al-Jazirah newspaper that the pardon does not mean the king doubted the country's judges, but instead acted in the "interests of the people."

...contd...

... and while you're at it, kindly explain 'how' did you arrive at your conclusion below that firstly the girl was murdered; and secondly if she was then it was because of her refusing to wear a hijab.

"And, not to forget! Revolting against vestige of an old custom – wearing hijab, an innocent girl has been strangled to death. She should not have died."

Thanks.

#58 Posted by TahirQazi,

I don't have a clue what're you talking about. Where did I say I was "a proponent of physical violence on the basis of topic of an article …" ? What I was saying is that your title accuses Islam and Hijab as being responsible for what clearly appears to be a common incidence of domestic violence gone seriously wrong, the full details of which are yet to emerge.

Of-course you didn't do your homework before embarking upon an Islamophobic dance ritual.

The Edmonton Chronicle article I reproduced, giving the testimonies of friends of the family including the girl with whom the victim was staying after leaving her family, proves that.

Sati does not have religious sanction. There are vague references to Sati in some of the old texts, but we do not find any real examples of it until the 1400s when Rajput women thought it better to die in their husbands' pyres than be taken as sex slaves by invading Muslim armies.

Re: # 57

Dost sahib:

"...The suttee, did indeed have religious sanction..."

Is(are) there any written or verbal authority(ies) in Hindu religion that gives sanction to Suttee? Please let me know?

freethinker #52: Dr. Gill Sahib: Your thoughtfulness is much appreciated. Like always, its great. Thanks a lot.

dost_mittar #57: Very interesting observation! Long ago when I was going through some of Upanishads, I did not feel that suttee was coming out of scriptures but you do have a point and its about human nature.

Do you think that violence is in human nature that plays upon social and cultural stage? I am wondering if violence is innate, how come there is security in some societies more than others? Is there a role for education to tone down human nature?

zeemax # 56: So you are telling me that you are a proponent of physical violence on the basis of topic of an article … Did I hear you right? I believe you are smarter and you can definitely argue better than threats of violence. Step up to your real potentials – Recognize them and shine them please. You can surely do better!

Regards,

Tahir

freethinker#32:

A small correction. Dowry burning is not a religious custom, it is (I believe) a recent practice by greedy in-laws. The suttee, did indeed have religious sanction. It is ironic that while suttee, which had a religious sanction, has almost disappeared, the social disease of dowry burning has not.

#51 Posted by TahirQazi,

Sir, you could be who’s who of this planet but you owe me an apology … plain and simple.


Sure. As soon as you explain your choice of this article's title to me.

#35 Posted by anil Re: # 16

"...because she wanted to be with her canadian boyfriends..." Is this crime enough to be killed ? I would like to hear your opinion.

Of-course not. Who in their right minds would say it was?

However, all indications are it was not murder at all, and a case of domestic violence gone seriously wrong.

But surely the author and his ilk will start yelling Islam Islam .. Murder murder etc as soon as they read their first news report.

Remember how Bob Woolmer was 'murdered' by his jihadi team before the autopsy results came in?

Re: # 50

dehliwala, regarding the hijabi girl cheating...

FANTASTIC.

I support cheating in all forms during examinations. It truly seperates the intelligent from the sheep. I say bravo! That girl knows how to work the system, and is porbably doing quite well somewhere ...

Your article is quite interesting, but I really think that you should go back to your basics and try to learn what really is hijab,when is it to be worn,by whome is it to be worn and what conditions is to be worn. It is not that I am accepting the misdeeds of someone. What the man has done is wrong and there can never be two ways about it but you my friend need very serious rethinking about concept of Islam

Dr. Qazi Sahib:

There is no need for any legislation against hijab; on the other hand, there is a need for eliminating the legislation of hijab by the enforcement of hudood regulation in Pakistan and other conservative Muslim countries. Observance of hijab should be a purely personal thing. It should be okay for them who want to observe it and there should be no compulsion on others who do not want to observe it. Such outdated practices wouldn’t disappear any time soon; they’ll take their own time to fade away. Education will help in removing such customs from human culture.

Such undesirable customs exist in almost all the cultures. Burning of the Hindu brides who were not able to fetch a considerable jahez is one such custom, for example, in the Hindu society. The custom of sutee (burning alive of widows at the pyres of their deceased Hindu husbands) was abolished in India by the British rulers in the nineteenth century although such incidents occur even now here and there in some parts of India.

Society resists aggressively if such customs are condemned forcefully. The people should be educated to rescind such customs voluntarily. There is now a great deal of awareness regarding the downside of forcible enforcement of hijab thanks to writers like you and others. And this educational campaign should be continued.

Mohammad Gill

Issues confronting Muslims are much bigger than stupid Hijab and please don’t limit scope of violence to Muslim women only. The issue is human emancipation!

Specifically though, from bickering at home to torture of loud sermons by mullahs to murder in the name of honor is the spectrum of moral-violence. Explanations are only justifications for controlling women … Get real please.

freethinker #19: Dear Dr. Gill Sahib –Do you think legislation against Hijab etc etc can help raise consciousness about faith/culture based violence? Kindly, weigh in. The bar for interaction/comments is higher for a scholar like yourself (It’s a compliment).

dehiwala #46: Impressive … I am a student of psychology and admire SF. In this instance I found Kant to be more relevant because of social slant in that quote and by the way that’s what came to my mind while writing quickly.

What determines values and how do values change in a culture is an important but GENERATIONAL issue. There is some good research on this subject - Value Survey of the World. The data was collected from 81 countries for more than 20 years. If you can spare few minutes, please have a look at the following; particularly Question #3:

http://familyofheart.com/07/Dec01/Comments_TQ.htm

hurricane #28: I am glad that you are angry. Any reasonable person would be and should be angry. There is no other normal reaction on senseless crimes.

zeemax #30: Don’t you feel your remarks “guillotine park [for] these munafiques like this writer� are over the top. Sir, you could be who’s who of this planet but you owe me an apology … plain and simple.

Regards,

Tahir

I got my first taste of Hizab in Hyderabad when a Muslim girl sitting in front of me in the exam was caught with a Parchee inside the Hijab by a Male Invigilator. She threatened the teacher that if she is touched by a Male she will make their life hell.

By the time a woman could come to frisk her she swallowed the parchee in front of every single student.

Our school was such a garbage school that you need the evidence(parchee) to convict someone for cheating and this woman walked free.....

Kulharee saab
You are right. I was in Queens Center last week and I saw two girls being dropped by their father outside and 10 mts in the ladies room and they were in leather skirts and Mamma Khichooo kameez.

#43 Posted by Ras on December 16, 2007 5:28:05 pm


I do not remember
anyone wearing a Hijab in Pakistan or Bangladesh when
I was growing up.


Since we've all been told islam has nothing to do with anything, maybe it's global warning that's responsible for the growth in hijab uptake?

Re #45 That’s so true Shore Yaar. I have observed the same, except here in New York, I see Arab girls with very tight head covering, almost condom tight, but they also have long skirts, that are fit-hugged, and tight upper wear, with total outline of the body so pronounced. So what difference does covering one’s head mean? I don’t think that these Arab girls will be welcomed in a place like Pakistan in those tight jeans or long tight skirts.

Qazi Sahib:
Your name itself suggests that you are someone who has mastered Shariah and the Hijab issue very deeply.

By quoting Kant you are ignoring the grand-dad of human behaviour sciences i.e. Sigmund Freud(Jew) who should come naturally to your mind before Kant. Why did you do that? Is it because you dont believe that Jews are Al-Hilal in Aqal. I am merely curious here.....

Anyways, you do have some good points in your article but sadly speaking Muslims like you are an insignificant minority not capable of making change.
Your point about economics dictating the moral and spritual behaviour are true to some degree. For e.g. Saudi Arabia is a very rich country yet the most backward in it's thinking. It's citizens are living in mental cages.
In my $.02, ecomonics prosperity when combined with freedom of thought is the key to saving the masses for Muslims.
But it's not gonna happen in next 500 years.

The Hijab cropping up in the US and Pakistan coincides with the rise of Fundamentalism funded by the Saudi money. Most of the mosques in America are funded by Saudi dollars, and preach the extremist wahahi version of Islam.

When I was growing up in Pakistan, I dont remember any of my teachers or relatives wearing hijab. These were good pious women, and a simple dopatta covering part of the head was enough for them. Not this arab contraption called the Hijab.

I remember that my sister used to only wear the Chador when going to the Bazaar and not because of some modesty issue but because she felt the chador gave her protection from lewd men in the bazaar, and that she was less likely to be gawked at or her butt pinched if she was wearing a chador.

If wearing hijab or a burqa made women more pious then the prostitutes of Heera Mandi Lahore must be the most virtuous as they never leave their abodes without being compeltely covered in Burqas.

This is a hate crime, by a male Pakistani Muslim against a female Pakistani Muslim for asserting her independence.

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RE: #20 is Natasha related to Tarek?

The COMPLETE story has to be out on this one before our

rushing to judgement on the Father and the Hijab issue.

For a person of Pakistani origin, I do not remember

anyone wearing a Hijab in Pakistan or Bangladesh when

I was growing up. This is a much more recent phenomenon.

In North America it has become more common for South Asian

Muslim women don the Hijab.

The Father-Daughter relationship in the immigrant community

cannot be described as easy here in the west, but if the

dad killed her in this case it should be treated as the

worst kind of crime.

Let us wait and see what exactly happened.

We cannot change the past but learn from it so that

such a horrible scenario is not repeated again.

Ras

There are many honorable muslim/non-muslim women who doesn't cover their heads. Dads like these need to be put in some sort re-education camp and be taught that there is no honor in murdering ones own child. One real disgusting sick f&@k.

when you read such things happening remembers what Munshi Premchand said of woman race. Womans life story breast full of milk and eyes full of tears.
Generally men folks are stupid racists and not very useful so I am generally like women , some times their their all hardship and know appreciation brings tears to eyes.

The article starts nicely, "muslims wake up".
The problem if people are asleep calling for wake up will serve purpose. But people who are awake but pretend to be sleeping nothing can be done.
Which father has no problems with daughters ?
I do not know any honestly.Now all women( men) do things which their mother (father) did not do. Same way their mothers did that grandmother did not do.It is good to concede by fathers about this matters for who we are to dictate terms which they can defy easily. May be hopefully they know about protections. Its slow but creeping sexual liberation sweeping islamic world and aided by ponography and books. Sex liberation or recration has diminished societies like Scandination nations. I have never heard those people becoming refugees to islamic lands. People at heart know what is advanced society and better as one can see people vote by legs . Every muslim and Muslima at heart
wants to have great sexual content in their society but just like blind people not ready to have that sexuality in real life and just hate people who have great sex and satisfying life and no need to pinch bottoms of women or look at them and embarras them. The oppressed libido of men in Islamic states to gutter level of constant addiction of ponography and bad treat ment of women.
One way is ( though it can not happen any time) to have Fatawas from Holy places that any body making violence against women will be subjected to chopping of head like KSA. Exceptional creuel parents, men women need exceptional harsh treatment.
Recently I felt extremely sad. A nice fellow who is good muslim militant was drinking and SR has to tell some bad way. This shakes faith of person. Hope SR is lieing about good man.

#26 Posted by aslam644 on December 16, 2007 9:24:32 am


since we are discussing honour crimes not terrorism so stick to topic.


It's the same topic..muslims doing things, like terrorism and the hijab killing, thinking they are in line with islam..followed by muslims telling us the things that were done are not in accordance with islam..lather rinse repeat..

Re: # 31

Three cheers for hamdim2.....

#30 Posted by zeemax on December 16, 2007 10:56:28 am


This is what makes my belief even firmer that without guillotine parks


What about people like you who consume alcohol..a no no per mo and his camel..

32 Posted by aslam644 on December 16, 2007 11:00:05 am


is that a euphemism for sex, drugs and rock ‘n’ roll, I mean at sixteen she should have been into her studies.


yeah pal..either you wear a burkha and never be seen with a na mehram or it's sex drugs and rock'n'roll

regardless, now that she's 6 ftt under, she should have plenty of time to hit the books...hope they buried the books with her..

Re: # 16

Zeemax Sahib:

"...because she wanted to be with her canadian boyfriends..."

Is this crime enough to be killed ? I would like to hear your opinion.

Re: # 19

Gill Sahib:

"...The whole incident is sad and unfortunate...."

Just unfortunate!!!!

A girl's life was cut short by none other than her father.

Why would non-muslims not wonder that the spread is extremely narrow between freethinkers and enslaved thinkers?

Like all 'liberals' (Mr. Qazi must see himself as one) the author cannot be honest. He is clearly assigning a part of the blame for the child's murder to Islam. Then he expects Muslims to listen to him. Or is he even addressing Muslims?

“Tahir insisted the girl was religiously observant but mainly had wanted to be more independent and "to get more out of life," and had asked to move in with the Tahirs in the same neighbourhood.�

“to get more out of life�
is that a euphemism for sex, drugs and rock ‘n’ roll, I mean at sixteen she should have been into her studies.

a muslim's lament

But why's everbody always pickin' on me?

Cause my fifteen year-old cousin has less acne
But why's everbody always pickin' on me?
Ain't brushed them teeth since 1983
But why's everbody always pickin' on me?
Cause you got the grooming habits of a chimpanzee
But why's everbody always pickin' on me?
Cause you run like a girl and sit down to pee
But why's everbody always pickin' on me?
Cause your only school chum was the lunch lady
But why's everbody always pickin' on me?
Cause no one likes you monkey boy.

Just look at the title of this article:

Islam and Hijab-Murder in Canada

So it was the hijab and it was Islam responsible. Open and shut case. Even before the facts are known.

This is what makes my belief even firmer that without guillotine parks, these munafiques like this writer cannot be dealt with who are bigger enemies of Muslims than the neocons in Washington.

Re: # 12 Posted by zeemax on December 16, 2007 7:22:32 am

This article is about a muslim father killing his 16 year old girl.

[If he did, It was cultural family pride which happens in all primitive mindsets, and nothing to do with Islam.]

It had everything to do with this person's upbringing as a muslim in some dilapidated culture of Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Do you know where in Pakistan is he from?

All Tahir did was to make me furious with his mypopic thinking, so I let loose on him a barrage of anger.

Now let me iterate my position.

Nobody deserves to be killed (not even serial killers), let alone a innocent girl of 16.

A lot of people have mentioned that she may or may not have been wayward...even if she was sleeping around with guys (not proven), how could that possibly make it okay to kill her. If people are this "conservative" they should not move to kafir lands.

This is a clash of values and power. The father wants the daughter to follow values that she cannot, and then he wants to have the power over her to force her to do as he dictates. In western countries, he has no such power (rightfully so, in my opinion). So HE REBELLS. He rebels and takes the power in his own hands and kills her.

The same has happened for Sikh families too.

It is better not to have the knee jerk reaction to this. This is not a law you can pass to fix it. It requires social understanding and then acting out properly. Furthermore, just as you can never stop people from murdering others (gasp... even in Canada), there will always be muslims that kill thier children!

Re: # 24

Dear high n mighty one, do tell us minnows why would a father murder his sixteen year old sibling? If it was not the hijab then was it the SIXTEEN year demand for freedom? Iam sure u can relate given u too have a daughter the same age maybe.

Re: # 25
since we are discussing honour crimes not terrorism so stick to topic.

#23 Posted by aslam644 on December 16, 2007 9:07:39 am


It’s not only muslims Sikhs are just as bad in the UK


sikhs are blowing up trains and making plans to blow up airlines and making plans to kill people by poisoning their beer?

Idiot hindoos and misc munafiqs, read this:

(http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/story.html?id=4b0875ae-dada-4e47 -8cd7-10d8e62aa614&k=93596)

Edmonton Journal

Aqsa parvez mourned

Slain teen wanted 'to get more out of life,' friends say
Craig Offman, CanWest News Service; with Agence France-Presse files
Published: 7:51 am

MISSISSAUGA, Ont. - Her refusal to wear a hijab may not have been a factor in the death of a Muslim Toronto teen last week, friends of her family said Saturday.

The circumstances behind the death of Asqa Parvez remain murky. Her father, Muhammad, has been charged with murder but has not yet entered a plea.

Some classmates have said the girl's insistence on not wearing the hijab led to intense family squabbles, but another friend told CanWest News Service Saturday the traditional Islamic clothing was not a major factor and that other girls in the family did not wear the hijab.

Lubna Tahir, at whose house 16-year-old Aqsa Parvez was staying after leaving her own home in Toronto's Mississauga suburb, branded as "rumours" news stories that Parvez's father allegedly killed her for not wearing the Muslim headscarf.

Tahir insisted the girl was religiously observant but mainly had wanted to be more independent and "to get more out of life," and had asked to move in with the Tahirs in the same neighbourhood.

"She was satisfied, she was relaxed that somehow her parents understood that this is what she wanted to do, and they didn't push her to come home," Tahir told CanWest News Service.

Pakistan-native cab driver Muhammad Parvez, 57, was arrested at his home Monday where Aqsa was found near death, by emergency workers.

On Saturday swollen-eyed mourners came to a Toronto-area mosque to pay their respects but at the last minute the public funeral was made private.

Held at the Islamic Society of North America headquarters, the funeral drew classmates, members of the Islamic community and media, all of whom were bewildered by the sudden switch.

"I don't understand why they didn't just tell us it was private," said one girl who knew Asqa from school. "I just wanted to come to say goodbye to her, and now I don't know where her body is."

As it turned out, rites already had been performed earlier Saturday morning at an undisclosed location.

One person close to the family said there was concern about a big turnout and at the last minute it was decided to change the venue to maintain privacy.

Re: # 22
It’s not only muslims Sikhs are just as bad in the UK

They all seem to be from jalandhar is that the hill billy part of panjab, if it is then that might explain it

Islam didn't do it

Islam is always off the hook isn't it..

9/11: It has nothing to do with islam

London subway bombings: It has nothing to do with islam

bali bombings: It has nothing to do with islam

bombings in iraq: It has nothing to do with islam

bombings in israel: It has nothing to do with islam

bombing in pureland: It has nothing to do with islam

theo van ghogh: It has nothing to do with islam

rushdie riots: It has nothing to do with islam

danish cartoons: It has nothing to do with islam

killed for not wearing a hijab: It has nothing to do with islam

sorry islamofascists..the world isn't buying it..maybe the koran, allah, mo or his camel didn't tell you to do stuff..yet it's muslims who're doing it and for islam..

It's muslims, stupid..

#12 Posted by zeemax on December 16, 2007 7:22:32 am


She ran away from home and her father (allegedly, yet to be proven) killed her for that


She ran away? where did you read that? on the PIOMPA website.

Read this article appeared in Canadian Broadcasting Coro. (CBC) which is the national Radio and TV system. Read -some of you idiots and bigots- the article. Here its is!

Who will speak for Aqsa Parvez?
By Natasha Fatah
Dec. 14, 2007
RE: www.cbc.ca Dec 14, 2007
By Natasha Fatah is a producer for CBC Radio's Current Affairs Show "As It Happens." Prior to that, she was a television and radio reporter in Windsor, Ontario. She has degrees in Journalism from Ryerson University and in Political Science from the University of Toronto. She has lectured on anti-racism, politics and media studies at elementary and secondary schools around the Greater Toronto Area. In 1996, she was the host of 'News from the Muslim World' on Vision TV.
------------------- Article starts here-------------------
Sixteen-year-old Aqsa Parvez did not want to wear the hijab.

The Middle Eastern head covering has become the most significant icon for Islam in the West, which is unfortunate, since 90 per cent of Muslim women in this country don't wear one. By extension, they get dismissed as not being authentic Muslims.

The CBC's own Little Mosque on the Prairie plays into this stereotype by showing every prominent Muslim woman in a hijab. This superficial measurement of Muslim-ness has become so prevalent that a small but increasing number of families are pushing it on their daughters.
Aqsa, a Pakistani-Canadian, was just one of the victims of this growing obsession. Now that Aqsa is dead, who will speak for her? Who will speak for the countless Muslim girls who lead double lives and who suffer in silence in their homes? Who will make sure they aren't abused or killed?

Who chooses?

Most Islamist men and women say that a woman chooses to wear the hijab. But, all too often, that choice is taken away from young Muslim girls.

They are being told by their parents and their imams that if they don't wear the hijab, they are no longer Muslim. This occurs even though the Koran, Islam's holy book, does not say that a woman has to cover her hair.

Take a walk in downtown Toronto, Montreal, Windsor or other cities with large Muslim populations. You will see little girls, as young as four, five and six, wearing hijabs on their way to school.

Did these little girls really make a choice to wear the hijab? Did they make a declaration to their parents that they want to be religiously pious and sexually modest? Common sense indicates that these children did not choose for themselves.

The innuendo

Meanwhile, the mullahs and Islamists are busy dismissing the idea that Aqsa's alleged murder had anything to do with religion. They are circulating rumours on-line that she had a black boyfriend, that she was sexually promiscuous, that she was a drug pusher. These are cited as reasons why her family was strict with her.

Why are they so afraid of acknowledging that obsession with a religious ritual may have been a factor? It is because they fear their own culpability in this horrible tragedy.

Before their congregations, these religious leaders tell men to control their daughters, wives and sisters. They have brought into Canadian homes the radical Islamist notion that a man's honour is encompassed in the sexual and physical body of the women in his family, that's why they must be covered up and kept inside.

Muslim fundamentalists have made a woman's body the fighting ground for their religious wars, and it is unfortunately women who pay with their lives for the sake of their men's honour.
A wall of silence

Women's advocacy groups have played mute on the issue. When Canadian feminists are asked for their reaction to Aqsa's murder, they decline to respond and instead suggest that it would more appropriate to turn to Muslim women's groups for reaction.

Advocates are willing to speak up for all other women in Canada, from women who need cancer treatment because of radioisotope shortages to the dozens of prostitutes murdered in British Columbia, but they will not speak for Aqsa.

Even social pundits and critics are making excuses. They say that this isn't something unique to the Muslim community. They bring up examples of honour killings in Christian, Sikh and Hindu families.

Just because there are religious fanatics in every group doesn't take away the need to investigate what is happening to young Muslim women. So far, the only ones who have spoken honestly are the young girls that attend Applewood Heights Secondary School in Mississauga.

The friends and classmates of Aqsa, who aren't concerned with political correctness, have said without hesitation that Aqsa was abused and threatened at home because of the religious fanaticism of her family. They have said she was killed because she wanted to be herself.

The rest of Canadian society could take a hint from these girls. We hesitate to condemn this behaviour because we don't want to be seen as racist. Are we going to allow cultural relativism to be the scapegoat for abuse and murder in this country?

This is not the time for discussions about cultural nuances and lowered expectations for ethnic and religious minority groups. This is the time to speak up, and say enough is enough to the religious fanatics in Canada.

If a vacuum of silence is left by the moderate people in Canada, who are the overwhelmingly majority, then that vacuum will be filled by the religious extremists on one side, who will make excuses for these actions; and by intolerant racists on the other, who will say religious minorities are poisoning this country.

Canadians, Muslim and non-Muslim, must say that while this country's greatest pride is its diversity, multiculturalism and acceptance, there are certain beliefs and laws that are inherently Canadian and that must be respected.

We have to say loudly that a woman is free to cover her body as she chooses. She is free to wear her hair how she likes. That at least in this country, she is free, no matter how you interpret your religion.
END

Mr. Qazi's article lacked clarity. Readers like me who were not aware of this incident were left high and dry. I had to google to get the facts of this tragic incident.

The ill-fated Aqsa Parvez was 16 year old and liked to wear fashionable clothes like many other normal girls of her age and environment. Her cab-driving father is a stern conventionalist and wanted her daughter to wear hijab. She would leave her home in hijab but took it off once she was outside and away from her home. She wanted to do away with hijab completely.

It is difficult for many kids to grow up in two cultures which are so very different from each other. The parents should show some flexibility and understanding in such situations. The little information that I was able to gather did not show Aqsa to be a wayward girl; for all practical purposes she was a normal kid. Even if she was wayward, that should not give any authority to her father to kill her. Education is the way to heal this kind of slavish attitude.

The whole incident is sad and unfortunate.

Mohammad Gill

Rukhsana Naz grew up in streets like these. A bright, educated woman, she had been married at 16 to an older man. At 19, she was pregnant by her childhood sweetheart. Her mother told her the child was 'an insult to [her] husband'.
When she refused an abortion and demanded a divorce, Rukhsana was invited to a family dinner where her brother, Shazad, strangled her with a skipping rope. Her mother, Shakeela, helped hold her down. Her actions had 'shamed' the family, the court was told.
Rukhsana Naz's killers were jailed last year. In June 1995 another Pakistani girl was run down and crushed to death by her brother-in-law for a similar offence in Bradford. Tasleem Begum was 20 and had been married for four years to an older Pakistani man. She too fell in love. She too transgressed traditional codes of behaviour and brought shame on her family.
Rukhsana Naz's killers were jailed last year. In June 1995 another Pakistani girl was run down and crushed to death by her brother-in-law for a similar offence in Bradford. Tasleem Begum was 20 and had been married for four years to an older Pakistani man. She too fell in love. She too transgressed traditional codes of behaviour and brought shame on her family.
Other suicides lead to 'Romeo and Juliet' headlines in newspapers. In one tragic case this year a young Sikh woman hanged herself after being told by her parents that her relationship with a Muslim boy should stop.

... but I reiterate that still doesn't make it right. Just don't bring Hijab into it. That's just Hijab bashing. Motivation for the crime was different.

#14 Posted by hamidm2,

She didn't run away from home because she didn't want to wear the hijab. She ran away because she wanted to be with her canadian boyfriends. Read all the reports on the incidence.

Canadian social services are at fault for not protecting this young girl, if she had ran away from home it was obvious she was experiencing problems with her family, what ever they were.

Re: # 12

zeemax,

... ?? ... "It was over her promiscuity." ... where did you hear that ? ...... running away from oppressive parents, not wearing the hijab or talking to boys does not equate to 'promiscuity' ....... in the closed and dirty minds of practicing muslims it does, but that does not make it right ......

FakirIppi,

Well .. these visa seekers do not mind their daughters sleeping around ... (they want to integrate) ... which even the indigenous people of their adopted homes discourage. But the indigenous people don't kill their daughters for it. Desis can go pretty ballistic over it I guess.

#9 Posted by hamidm2,

Hamidm why do you always twist my words? I never said that.

What I said was that the anger was not over her not wearing a Hijab. It was over her promiscuity. She ran away from home and her father (allegedly, yet to be proven) killed her for that. If he did, It was cultural family pride which happens in all primitive mindsets, and nothing to do with Islam.

this is whats happening to so called liberals in west...they are getting laid and father is supposed to be liberal

# 9)Tum ko ghairat ka nahin patta....what kind of kuffar u people are....christians are planning to destroy all Muslims and u visa seeker hollow so called liberals like hamid m 2 and hp are talking nonsense.

Re: # 5

zeemax,

this is precious - the ultimate justification for bedouin behaviour ! .............. "It was not over Hijab. It was over her promiscuous behaviour and having run away from home and the family's anger over that."

..... maybe we should also kill little boys for spanking the monkey or choking the chicken !

Again Islam under attack ...

Kanjars will never give up.

Anyone heard of people in the US who microwave their babies?

It must be the Americans belief to do that.

What did I say -- we Muslims are a wierd community -- thrown by the wildebeast like migration pressure from our dark caves of Tora Bora -- to among the civilized bewildred communtities of the world -- that is asking who are these people and from where they are coming?

Yes -- We are the ultimate alien creatures -- with our grotesques cultural/moral values of our celeberated Ahade-e Jahiliya still alive and kicking -- just emerging from the caves of Tora Bora suddenly into this modern world.

Yes we are modernizing our 'bedouine culture' -- we are no longer burying the girls alive as soon as they are born -- we are letting them grow before choking them to death with our bare hands -- for 'her promiscuous behavior' -- and then burying them dead.

There is a curse of God on this blind and deaf upside-down community of ours.

"Anybody who behaves like this is a criminal and is not a Muslim" ......... i am sorry, but this is not true - this type of crime is a muslim trait and there is only one solution: muslims, like pedophiles, should not be allowed to have children .........

It was not over Hijab. It was over her promiscuous behaviour and having run away from home and the family's anger over that.

Not that it was justified, but let's keep things in the correct perspective.

“If religion does not subscribe to hijab then its time to tell mullah to stop sermonizing virtues of that tiny piece of head-cover; if culture imposes it onto only one gender of society, it is sexism and gender discrimination – Stop it�.Agreed, but:
If it was so easy to tell the Religious Brigade to Stop it, and correct their heinous mindset, it would have not lasted a millennia for the falsehood to persist. Neither it is the case of the ‘Muslim apologetics’ being incorrect to claim that covering of the hair on the head, let alone the entire face and body with Burqa and Neqaab, is NOT the requirement of Quran.
This is an obvious case of complete IGNORANCE and misrepresentation of the teaching of THE BOOK on the part of those who believe that it is Islamic. Keep Islam out of it for Islam is not a religion! ignorance even in Islam is not an excuse.
Here are a few examples where Hijab is referred to in Quran, which the Brigade and those women who ACCEPT it as being a mode of advertising their religious VIRTUE( 107-6) should open the Book to find out for themselves:
1. The seven places the word hijab(7-46,17-45,19-17,33-53,38-52,41-5,42-51) occurs in Quran, it alludes to the aura of separation, the protocol, decorum, barrier etc. For example, God spoke to Rusul from behind a Hijab, there was a hijab between the people in hell and the people in heaven etc. The political metaphors of ‘Iron’ and ‘Bamboo’ curtains of the old are examples, without the physical curtain.
2. Within the Code of Islam, the responsibility of not only dressing modestly but, behaving correctly, falls EQUALY on Muslim male and female4-124 gender. In fact the Male24-31,32 is addressed first in the verses. In most man made ‘religions’ it is the female who carries all the responsibility of the male’s morality and his sins!(Remember Amina Lawal and Sofia of Nigeria?- and many cases in NWF )
3. Showiness and overt display24-31 of one’s piety 107-6 is frowned upon in the Book. It is this last aspect, when examined critically by us, irks Religious Brigade for their “religion� and their “piety� is being questioned.
4. Islam prescribes CODE of dress and not a MODE of dress. Every decent dress, creating that aura of modesty and decorum-- that curtain without a curtain; both for men and women is an Islamic dress irrespective of cultural differences and styles.Hijab is a style not a Statement.
5. Dress should be such as not to draw attention to your self so as be not be molested 33-59. ( On the Subcontinent, males brazenly molest ladies in streets, what ever the dress! This is confirmed in the book ‘the Holy Cow’ by an Australian author.)
So it is a case of EDUCATION of the ignorants and DESTROYING the strangle hold of the lucrative business of an industry called the Churches of Muslims.
But a Murder is a Murder and heinous act in any society and should be condemned roundly by all Muslims of the world.
Rashid

And is it not missassauga where a sikh man strangled his daughter and killed her for dating a white guy?

hmmm....maybe missassuagans do not exist in a vaccum...must be these damn missassaugans.

please, let your puny brain rest.

Tahir Sahib,

First, I was saddened to hear about this girl. This savage man who called herself the father, should be put away in jail for life.

Secondly, I feel that your article is that of a western apologist of Islam and Muslims. You belong squarely in the Irshad Manji group. Sorry no dice. Such broad generealizations, as you have made, are illogical.

So if someone commits murder, should we not examine thier religion, and say gee I wonder why so many catholics are committing murder.

Islam and Hijab-Murder in Canada - It has nothing to do with
Islam.

IDIOTS